felfury88 was saying: Oh, that’s bull! That should have worked!

Okay I have been seeing people argue for years with this writer about their logic that the Mafuba becomes obsolete at a certain point; sorry for the long post but Imma hop on my soap box about this.

Isn't that the whole damn point of The Mafuba? It never succeeds and always makes the situation worse.

To me Toryama seemed to use the Mafuba as a critique of the notion of the Bushido tactics from WW2 Japan, and how killing oneself to protect loved ones or atone for mistakes -Is-Not-The-Answer-.

So the first time it's used is by Mutaito; he is heartbroken and feels guilty that Piccolo and his demons killed most of his students, so he invents this deadly move and uses it. He is essentially choosing to atone for the death of his students by sacrificing himself to stop Piccolo.

It did not work; Piccolo is back in a few centuries

When Roshi is telling the gang about this Tien takes it as this grand, noble sacrifice on the part of Mutaito; and as the answer to their problems. He even says "I have to experience it at least once" or something like that. Keep in mind Tien is pretty much the same age of those "Special Attack" units in WW2 Japan that did suicide missions.

Roshi, who is WAY wiser than anyone else in the show points out that it's not the answer, but in the end he uses it against Piccolo in an effort to save Tien and Chaotzu from getting killed fighting, and because he feels guilty over the (perceived) death of Goku and wants to atone like his master did.

He misses the jar and it doesn't work

It doesn't even work in detering Tien or Chaotzu, the latter of whom is then killed by Piccolo thanks (in part) to Tien.
Now Tien feels guilty about spending his life hurting people, and (in his eyes) failing Chaotzu and Master Roshi.
He decides to try it against Piccolo.

His Jar is cracked and his plan doesn't work
I kind of feel like this is meant to reflect the kamikaze pilot Takehiko Ena's story. He ended up surviving because his jet had engine troubles and was never able to take off.

Then Kami uses it against Junior; he had no intention of dying from the move, but...

Piccolo had made a counter measure against it and the Mafuba doesn't work

To me this kind of reflected the Showa generals who orchestrated Kamikaze attacks; they should have realized it was a dumb tactic and stopped using it. It was devastating early on in the war but by the end of WW2 these tactics were easier to identify for the Allied armies and kind of lost their effectiveness. Despite this Japan was still training Special Attack units up until the end of the war.

So, if The Mafuba was Akira Toryama's nod to Japan's use of Bushido/Special Spirit tactics (and propaganda) in WW2 then pointing out that it wouldn't work and straight up becomes obsolete at a certain level of power, Like this writer does, isn't just a valid argument.

it's the whole damn point of the technique.

Honestly the author here has done a great job on showing it. Chaotzu has been doing a lot here; he saved Tien's life, he's being using telekinesis to stop Nappa, and Vegeta even took notice of this a few pages ago (at least I thought he did). Listening to Tien and running away (and potentially pulling a Yajirobe and coming back for a sneak attack later) would have been such a better idea than using a move that they've never actually seen stop a threat and almost always ends in the death of the user.

So does this mean Cell is stronger than U13 Vegeta's SSJ 3 too? Interesting.

Even those DBM's most hardcore fans who had defended how U16 Bra, U16 Vegetto and U1 South Kaioshin were written despite the controversies still complained on the DBM comments section about the DBM plot making the U9 characters exit the story. The DBM plot making the U9 characters exit the story was much more negatively received by the grand majority of DBM fans than the other choices Salagir made for the DBM plot/story. Thus I think that Salagir did not realize how making the U9 characters exit the story was going to get so very negatively received by the grand majority of DBM fans.

Comic-P was saying: U9 were one of the cooler universes that overall felt pretty underused. It'd be one thing if they had been highly used up to now. But they really haven't. Yamcha had his cool moment, but that's kind of it.
I'm not quite sure why all of U9 had to leave either, guess it was just the collateral damage, because Old Kai "had" to go.

Buuut... Since we know for sure now, that XXI wants to consume all the other universes, there is still a pretty fair chance that we see all the other universes, that already went or were sent home from the tournament, again. That would also include Zen Buu... that is, IF XXI succeeds.
Maybe even some other universes, outside of the 20 we've seen at the tournament, who knows. :)

U13 Mystic Raditz's mental blocks made him immune to getting majinized by U11 Babidi during the Majin Rebelion arc, thus Mystic U13 Raditz's mental blocks have protected him against mind affecting spells and effects.

I - KEEP - SAYING - IT ... ...


Old Kaioshin thinks of himself as soooo smart, i bet. But why should Radditz now keep HIS end and bargain of the deal ? He WAS tricked. It is not a Lie.

There is a good point that some people make. Has South Kaioshin ever shown that he can read minds? Probably, but have we ever seen it? There could well be a possibility that mind reading is not one of South's strengths and that is why he has never worked on improving this skill?

I also have to raise a question, how often do we actually see Kaioshin's mind reading in DBZ? Serious question, because I'm not sure about this at all.

Time to mention the elephant in the room: Page 2489 shows that when U16 Vegetto is bitting that shadowy "senzu bean" his left eye color has changed to the same gray color that Uuv's eyes have when Uuv is evil/mind controlled/possessed.

Page 2489 shows that when U16 Vegetto is bitting that shadowy "senzu bean" his left eye color has changed to the same gray color that Uuv's eyes have when Uuv is evil/mind controlled/possessed. Yes, on page 418 when U16 Vegetto says "I'll kill you all if I have to!!" his (U16 Vegetto)'s eyes colors have the same gray color that Uuv's eyes have when Uuv is evil/mind controlled/possessed.

If you please, please take a look at Bardock's vision on page 418 where when U16 Vegetto says "I'll kill you all if I have to!!" his (U16 Vegetto)'s eyes colors have the same gray color that Uuv's eyes have when Uuv is evil/mind controlled/possessed.

But on that same page 418 it shows that Bra, U18 Piccolo, U18 Goku and U18 Vegeta have normal eyes colors, thus Salagir and Gogeta Jr deliberately intentionally chose to give U16 Vegetto's eyes a gray eyes color on page 418.

It is very possible that there are many more remote controls. But in this particular case, I think DBM wanted to make sure that South didn't use the same remote from the Dark Varga. On page 2485, Uuv was given one, and today's page ensures that he will continue to have it for later events. South, most probably, fetched another remote.

The Anti-XXI side has been dismantled though.

And before someone says "U5 XXI made a wish to learn Babidi's spell", DBM actually showed us that on DBM continuity Babidi's spell did not work when one of the female Vargas tried to cast that spell on Zen Buu, thus proving that on DBM continuity knowing Babidi's spells is not enough to cast Babidi's spells, because on DBM continuity the ability to cast Babidi's spells is exclusive to those who actually have Babidi's powers. Thus U5 XXI can only cast Babidi's spells if he (U5 XXI) had absorbed/eaten U5 Babidi at some point.

U5 XXI actually did do something that would have ticked off the DBM tournament organizers if it was someone else who did it: One of the DBM tournament organizers (the U1 Namekian who hear both Gast saying "I forfeit!" and U5 XXI saying "Alas... if only the tournament organizers could you... !" on page 2444) hear that U5 XXI continued attacking Gast after Gast had surrendered, thus the DBM tournament organizers already know that U5 XXI intentionally broke the DBM tournament rules, which means that U1 South Kaioshin saying "XXI is one the rare participants who followed the rules" means that U1 South Kaioshin is either a stupid idiot moron or possessed by U5 XXI.

CompactCoven was saying: I've never felt that way from this comic, the story quality's been pretty consistently good, and the art's only gotten better over the years.
That's fair enough. You feel what you feel. The common sentiment I've seen, and share, is that while it's overall good it has some REALLY bad spots that are largely disliked. You're very much the minority but it's not like you're WRONG either since taste isn't objective.

The constant defense squad whenever people criticize seems a little silly. DBM is infamous for its sudden dips in quality and for Salagir's questionable logic at times

To be fair, the amount of comments complaining are somewhat justified, as it seems that with each successive page, the story is getting sillier. Characters are acting in barely justified ways in order to force the plot along, and after all the slow build-up, suddenly we're in a rapid sprint through plot points that people have been invested in for very long amounts of time, and a lot of people aren't going to be pleased with that.

That comparison to Goku is a ludicrous false equivalency. Goku killed somebody working for a evil world conquering army that was actively attempting to kill him, and declared an intention to kill a monstrous demonspawn that just killed his best friend. Neither of these things are evil acts.
Beating up an old kaioshin who wasn't making any attempt to attack and was instead simply trying to explain himself is an incredibly evil action. Self-defense is not evil, nor is wanting to kill demonspawn. Beating up the wisest force for good in the cosmos however is very much evil.
I get wanting to defend the plot beats of the story, but this isn't how I'd do it.
Also, having a pure heart is not the same as having a good heart. It's all about having dark intentions.

Warsuits that they have prior to the tournament and came in that way. Everyone, besides those gifted power by Zen Buu have been relying in their strengths, techniques, and what they already have.

Cell hid the fact that he was making his Cell Jr stronger because he knew it was cheating. The Vargas definitely needed to set up some anti-magic cameras in these apartments.

People criticize the publication of a page as being the same as the publication of a whole chapter. We know there's more to come, but still too often people act as if the latest published page is the last page of the chapter.

If that is the case then U9 did not break the rules for giving medical attention to U9 Elder Kai and U13 Raditz, yet U1 South Kaioshin send all U9 characters back to Universe 9 despite only U9 Elder Kai doing anything that would be considered close to rule breaking.

A person giving medical attention to a criminal does not make them an accomplice.

Ammar was saying: King Kindred was saying: XXI has been breaking the rules the entire tournament by using his own set of Dragon Balls to cheat and he's now infecting other universes.
That's not against the rules nor it's cheating.

Outside help is both against the rules and cheating. Not using your own power to gain victory in a tournament is cheating. Not sure why you think it isn't.

Outside help is against the rules. Just that XXI is crafty enough to avoid getting caught.

"It's not cheating if you never get caught" as the saying goes.

U13 Mystic Raditz has mental blocks, however the DBZ Broly movie (which is canon on DBM) showed that is it possible for someone to eventually permanently overcome mental blocks via having enough amounts of anger and/or hate, thus if U13 Mystic Raditz gets angry/hateful enough at some point he may be able to permanently overcome his mental blocks.

Because U1 South Kaioshin probably realized that if he reported what happened to the Vargas, it would probably result in the Vargas sending U1 South Kaioshin back to Universe 1 for breaking the DBM tournament rules, well that and U5 XXI not wanting the U13 Saiyans to get send back to Universe 13.

South Kai is being completely irrational. I've read several times that he's still "in character", but the fact that he trusts a wizard more than a fellow Kai is - well it's bizarre. Even his limited experience with Babidi in this tournament should have given him enough reason to doubt XXI's words. If he's not under some kind of spell or manipulation from XXI, this is one of the few things in this whole comic that will actually bother me. And I say that having been a Vegito apologist, a Majin Bra / post-Majin Bra apologist, and nearly every other controversy or claim of Mary-Sues or out of character interactions.

This just feels like one of those cheesy interactions from a sitcom that would've been resolved if the people involved communicated in a realistic manner.

ZenBuu was saying: Dislpay name was saying: In the original version these flashback memories were greyed out, i think it would have been apropriate if the colored version had a filter over it.
Maybe, just maaaaaybe, that's the reason why the background is different behind these panels...

I didn't even notice before it was pointed out by you.

Elder Kaioshin must be HIGH AS A KITE if he thinks that he can " force " Radditz to become a Warrior on the Side of Good with this.



This is a Nerf if you think about it. Now, every " good-hearted Person " in the Universe can harm RADDITZ - and Radditz will be weakened so that he will be completely helpless against them.


How many People who commit the worst Atrocities against Others truly think that they are " evil ", huh ? Most People will always tell themselves some Stuff like they are just following Orders.

Hell, even FRIEZA'S FORCES can tell themselves they have no other Choice. Because if they don't "obey" -> Frieza f~in KILLS THEM !! Like on the spot.



I'K'L was a dangerous Menace to Everyone. But was he EVIL ??? No. He was the very worst kind of " good Guy ". Radditz is fxxxed now against good-hearted People which had not a single Chance against his old Self without the Mystic Power-State.



I am honest. I would 100% ask Old Kaio-Shin to take this back from me. Leave me as "weak" as before. But this ? This is Bullshit. HOW MANY People in the Galaxy hate Saiyans for what the People of the Saiyans did ?
Now Radditz is helpless against most if not all of them. This is insane. lol

If Old Kaio-Shin wouldn't reverse this, i would simply REFUSE to kill Vegeta in the end. Because honestly -> WHY. SHOULD. RADDITZ. - do that ??

Vegeta is now the Life-Line for him.
Radditz is NOT immortal like Kakkaroth. And now most People can easily kill him.

Kakkarot is one thing. But Vegeta is smarter than him. AND stronger than Kakkarot. Radditz will need Vegeta as a Bodyguard against anyone who is not truly and actually evil.

But if Videl tries to beat him up for no reason, doesn't that make her the bad guy, which means Raditz will be able to access his power?

Ah yes, it's limiting his power output, and it's of course a good deal easier to lift yourself into the air using spiritual energy than it is to hold up an old man who is far lighter than you.
I don't quite understand why you're making this argument. Ki flight isn't an easy thing to do at all, and it's clear that the power block just stops ANY sort of action against "non evil" enemies, to the point where Raditz couldn't even defend himself. It stops Raditz from using ANY power in situations like the one he was just in, and it even prevented him from using his newfound power purely defensively which should have allowed him to have easily facetanked anything that South Supreme Kai could've dished out without needing to alert the entire tournament by powering up.

Seems that somebody is forgetting just how energy intensive the Buukujutsu is, sure, it's easy if you're somebody like Saiyan Saga Raditz, but when you make him too weak to do something that even Goku at the very start of Dragonball could do easily (lift up an old man), then Raditz is going to die to wild animals.
It might be standard issue after a certain point, but Tien could only fly for a limited amount of time himself, and somebody like Mercenary Tao, despite literally being a member (and brother of the founder) of the school of martial arts that invented the technique was himself incapable of using it.

And there's not "two possibilities". The block refused to let him defend himself against somebody outright doing the bidding of evil, albeit unwittingly. It doesn't care about the motive at all, it's just whether the person attacking him is "evil".

CompactCoven was saying: jonathan_vik was saying: CompactCoven was saying:
No, he has all his strength. He just can't use it to murder civilians

He can't use it to even fight a dog. Being only able to use his powers on evil foes is more a limitation than it might seem.
Why would he need to fight a dog, he can just fly away

Not if the dog bites him and latches on.
He can't even lift a frail old man half his size thanks to Old Kai.

CompactCoven was saying:
No, he has all his strength. He just can't use it to murder civilians

He can't use it to even fight a dog. Being only able to use his powers on evil foes is more a limitation than it might seem.

The way that eg. the dragon, or the spirit bomb knows how someone is pure hearted, or evil in such a grey world, is already a suspension of disbelief... But Raditz's entire ki essence being able to auto-draw/withdraw is just abusing the mechanics. The only way to redeem this concept, that I can think of is that Raditz could be fighting someone who is tempted by the dark side, and as the fight continues the opponent gives into their darker urges, which ironically for them causes Raditz to gain the upper hand and stomp. Because remember kids, only a sith deals in absolutes.

So he literally crippled raditz by putting a condition on his natural strength he's put raditz in chains for the rest of his life

Lol slowly realizing this is more of a gag fan-manga than a actual story driven fan-manga . I'm seeing holes in the story as it goes on . NEVER could I lose interest , but I'm not taking the story serious lol not anymore

I just wanted to link the actual page. In DBM, it's mentioned on page 560 that Dai Kaioshin destroyed his brain at the last moment before absorption.

Hmm, not sure how I feel about this new restriction to the Kai unlock potential ability. Ah well, it shouldn't affect the story!

Also, glad to see that the two of them made it out alive!

There is nkwhere in Canon story that says mystoc power is limited to against evil beings

I say bs on this story

Thank all that is good, that I no longer have to question how the powerscaling in chapter 100 might coincide with the main story's.

Another good and evil test in Dragon Ball is King Yenma, who's enough of an authority that no one ever really contests his judgement, though it does still come from his own mind. Surely, it must either be based off of Raditz's perception or Elder Kai's, right?

CompactCoven was saying: happywarrior99 was saying: What you said are the good news for the DBM version of Universe 13.

The bad news for the DBM version of Universe 13 are that like U18 Goku, U13 Kakarotto was born having Goku's genetic potential to eventually unlock/get the mystic power up/ssj0 on his own by just training if he survives long enough to eventually do so, and since U13 Kakarotto is immortal, well, U13 immortal Kakarotto is eventually going to eventually unlock/get the mystic power/ssj0 on his own by just training no matter what U13 Mystic Raditz does, significantly greatly surpassing U13 Mystic Raditz's powerlevel by at least two tiers in the process.

Once U13 immortal Kakarotto eventually unlocks/gets the mystic power up/ssj0 on his own by just training, significantly greatly surpassing U13 Mystic Raditz's powerlevel by at least two tiers in the process, there is nothing stopping U13 immortal Mystic Kakarotto from just enslaving U13 Mystic Raditz if U13 Mystic Raditz ever tries to stop U13 Kakarotto from killing innocent people; unless U13 Vegeta (or someone else) destroys U13 immortal Kakarotto's head and then U13 immortal Kakarotto regenerates his head but with amnesia that causes U13 immortal Kakarotto's personality to become like U18 Goku's personality.

In addition, U13 immortal Kakarotto's immortality means that once U13 immortal Kakarotto eventually unlocks his ssj3 form he (U13 immortal Kakarotto) will be able to stay on his ssj3 form all the time 24/7 for as long as he wants.
eventually U13 immortal Kakarotto and he (U13 immortal Kakarotto) will be too strong for U13 Mystic Raditz to protect the Universe 13 people from U13 immortal Kakarotto's rampages even if U13 Vegeta is killed.
I can't think of any reason Kakarotto would enslave Raditz though

happywarrior99 was saying: Except for the notable exceptions of Dragon Ball Super continuity and Dragon Ball AF continuity, on most Dragon Ball continuities it is actually a plot point that Broly was actually born a genocidal evil psychopath (even by Saiyan society standards) who had already decided when he was a new born baby to use another baby crying as an excuse to be a genocidal evil psychopath even by Saiyan society standards, because on most Dragon Ball continuities Broly was born a genocidal evil psychopath even by Saiyan society standards to the point that King Vegeta quickly noticed Broly's genocidal evil psychopathy and then he (King Vegeta) tried (but failed) to kill Broly to try to save the Saiyans from Broly's genocidal evil psychopathy.
DBS and other dragon ball fan comics are not canon, so it doesn't apply to that hypothetical

happywarrior99 was saying: Nope.

On Dragon Ball franchise Kais and Kaioshins are canonically holy even if they are evil, which is why absorbing two Kaioshins tamed Majin Buu. Thus Majin Buu would have still become as innocent and childlike as he became in canon after absorbing two Kaioshins even if Kid Buu absorbed Zamasu and Aeos.
Buu wasn't reverted into his childlike form because of holy energy, he reverted to a childlike form because the Grand Supreme Kai was an extremely benevolent peace-loving entity. That's why he only became stronger from absorbing South in the canon timeline
In DBM, South finds out that Grand Kai fried his brain just before he was absorbed, solely to act as a nerf for Buu.

What you said are the good news for the DBM version of Universe 13.

The bad news for the DBM version of Universe 13 are that like U18 Goku, U13 Kakarotto was born having Goku's genetic potential to eventually unlock/get the mystic power up/ssj0 on his own by just training if he survives long enough to eventually do so, and since U13 Kakarotto is immortal, well, U13 immortal Kakarotto is eventually going to eventually unlock/get the mystic power/ssj0 on his own by just training no matter what U13 Mystic Raditz does, significantly greatly surpassing U13 Mystic Raditz's powerlevel by at least two tiers in the process.

Once U13 immortal Kakarotto eventually unlocks/gets the mystic power up/ssj0 on his own by just training, significantly greatly surpassing U13 Mystic Raditz's powerlevel by at least two tiers in the process, there is nothing stopping U13 immortal Mystic Kakarotto from just enslaving U13 Mystic Raditz if U13 Mystic Raditz ever tries to stop U13 Kakarotto from killing innocent people; unless U13 Vegeta (or someone else) destroys U13 immortal Kakarotto's head and then U13 immortal Kakarotto regenerates his head but with amnesia that causes U13 immortal Kakarotto's personality to become like U18 Goku's personality.

In addition, U13 immortal Kakarotto's immortality means that once U13 immortal Kakarotto eventually unlocks his ssj3 form he (U13 immortal Kakarotto) will be able to stay on his ssj3 form all the time 24/7 for as long as he wants.
eventually U13 immortal Kakarotto and he (U13 immortal Kakarotto) will be too strong for U13 Mystic Raditz to protect the Universe 13 people from U13 immortal Kakarotto's rampages even if U13 Vegeta is killed.

Except for the notable exceptions of Dragon Ball Super continuity and Dragon Ball AF continuity, on most Dragon Ball continuities it is actually a plot point that Broly was actually born a genocidal evil psychopath (even by Saiyan society standards) who had already decided when he was a new born baby to use another baby crying as an excuse to be a genocidal evil psychopath even by Saiyan society standards, because on most Dragon Ball continuities Broly was born a genocidal evil psychopath even by Saiyan society standards to the point that King Vegeta quickly noticed Broly's genocidal evil psychopathy and then he (King Vegeta) tried (but failed) to kill Broly to try to save the Saiyans from Broly's genocidal evil psychopathy.

Nope.

On Dragon Ball franchise Kais and Kaioshins are canonically holy even if they are evil, which is why absorbing two Kaioshins tamed Majin Buu. Thus Majin Buu would have still become as innocent and childlike as he became in canon after absorbing two Kaioshins even if Kid Buu absorbed Zamasu and Aeos.

Every now and then this fan fiction reminds you its fan fiction with its writing. Years and years of waiting to see what happens with Raditz and we get this. Massively let down.

Also, how does this work if Raditz say, just charges an attack to nuke the area?
Not that it matters anyway.

Also, am I supposed to believe that this silly mental block works on those who are "good" but are being used by evil for the sake of doing evil against their knowledge/control?
What, does this mean that Raditz couldn't hurt Majin Bra?
Who decides what is good? Who decides what is bad? Raditz? Old Kai? Some magical enchantment that rates people on a black and white karmic scale?
What is good for some may not be good for others.
Is Raditz forced into utiliatarianism now?
Because if that was the case, then the mental block shouldn't have done anything to stop him against South Kai.

Yeah so powerful. If he's grocery shopping and a bratty 8 year old cuts him in line and he says anything to the kid, he could get his ass kicked.

He's even more useless than before, a person that goes around punching people because of sitting down in an empty apartment hardly qualifies as "good" and now that he's gonna be corrupted by XXI raditz won't be able to do squat because Kaioshins are "good".

It was all for nothing, he's even worse than when he came in. But hey at least some people are laughing their asses off because Raditz being weak is the joke of the century.

Considering this is a multiverse, there would have to be at least 1 universe where the kaioshin were kinda murder happy.

and well, the reason used kinda makes sense. to maintain order, they killed off bad guys, or those who had evil tendencies, like a the lssj.

they gave a lssj baby a chance once, it grew up to be too much so they killed the matured lssj. brolly was killed as a baby.

they don't kill for the sake of it.

south kai didn't kill radditz, and I assume he didn't kill old kai either, since his plan was to send them back to their worlds. so far thats kinda lenient. a certain kaioshin I know from dbs would have killed them for far less, but I digress, in the multiverse of infinite worlds and infinite possibilities, there exists the likes of evil goku, aka "kakarotto" and probably evena good freeza.

now whether thats due to a "nature vs nurture" thing or just another example of being hit on the head like goku was, I dunno. but its another possible universe, even if it seems unlikely.

There is certain margins to work with when it comes to characters. Like Supreme Kai (the fat one) wasnt talked much on manga or anime (DBZ), however as much as you can choose to write him in a certain way, it should still be within a supreme God. Is not an excuse to have him say, making drugs and selling them across the galaxy, it wouldn't fit what he is supposed to be. So, while you can have some freedom with the whole multiverse shtick, at what point does it make the character not resemble that character? Imagine a good Frieza

CompactCoven was saying: zero logic was saying: Serpent God was saying: Tengu was saying: South Kai is so out of character here, he is not Zamasu!
The kaioshins killed baby broly without second thoughts.

Buddy that only happened in this series, wrote by the same writer who is behind this... so literally out of character consistently.
It's in the main DBM continuity
How does that contradict what I said????? Please re read my previous message outloud if needed

Perhaps the fact that they are gods looking out to preserve life (as said on DBZ and DBS). If you think it is appropriate or logical for a Kai to beat another Kai to death... then this plot is for you I guess

Serpent God was saying: Tengu was saying: South Kai is so out of character here, he is not Zamasu!
The kaioshins killed baby broly without second thoughts.

Buddy that only happened in this series, wrote by the same writer who is behind this... so literally out of character consistently.

At the beginning of the tournament he was going to free his counterpart from majin buu (u11) body, thus altering the fate of his universe. Then he agreed to grant u16 his wish of resurrecting the contestants early than expected, showing his bias towards one universe above the others. He's just mad because the kaioshins never had control of the situation.

South Kai is so out of character here, he is not Zamasu!

You could say that about a lot of characters here...

Exacly! Honestly this is such a bullshit. He's not a bully and since from the beginning he has tried to send back the BAD GUYS and even supported stopping the tournament before it gets out of control again, but now he does the absolute opposite and decided from some reason that the continuing of the tournament is above all.

The kaioshins killed baby broly without second thoughts.

So elder kai isn't going to mentally call anyone .... im kinda over this Manga but wanna see the end

I'm confused. South is absolutely SSJ3 tier. He fought on par with U11 Buu & only lost due to his absorption side quest. Goku said that U11 Buu is stronger than our familiar U18 counterpart. Old Kai realized during his ritual that Mystic Raditz would not be enough to stop U13 Vegeta, who is a NEW SSJ3. But on the previous page, Old Kai said to Raditz that he is stronger than South "By Far" (disregarding any mental blocks). How does this make sense?
South = U11 Buu = SSJ3 Tier
Mystic Raditz < SSJ3 Emperor Vegeta
(Old Kai): Mystic Raditz > South Kai

In DBM’s settings, Raditz is the lowest level of Saiyan with lowest potential.

Right now, his power while going beyond his maximum potential is at best SSJ2 kid Gohan level.

In the other words, Raditz cannot even achieve SSJ2 no matter how hard he trains.

It was quite obvious already during the imaginary fight between ultimate Radito and U13 SSJ3 Vegeta. Two weakest SSJ2 fused together are barely stronger than SSJ3 U13 Vegeta who is the Weakest SSJ3.

But I still wonder why the Author decided to make single pure blood Saiyan with this limit.

So you're telling me we've been waiting over ten years to finally see Raditz get beaten up like that?

South Kai fought perfectly evenly vs Majin Boo. There is no way that Raditz could have been far stronger than him and also lost to a heavily weakened Vegeta. I don't know what old kai was talking about.

Honestly though, we already know that Raditz isn't going to be able to beat SSJ2 Vegeta of his own Universe since Old Kai said in his vision of the future that he wouldn't.

It think the block is "you can't fight Kais".
That way they can always act as a check on his power.

Old Kai doesn't look shocked by this happening, maybe it really does have to do with the mental block.

So wait, they weren't looking at the open door as if someone was entering? That's what I assumed was going on in the last page. I guess the fact that Raditz can withstand punishment from South Kai does show he has improved significantly if he was only as strong before as some of Friezas elite warriors.

But we know that on Dragon Ball canon continuity both the average Human and the average Saiyan are born with a powerlevel of 5, it just happens that Saiyans train their ki for years while growing up on a planet that has higher gravity than planet Earth does.

Farmer with shotgun's gun is an inanimate non-magical mundane object that does not have any ki that could be sensed by a scouter.

For some reason most fans conveniently "forget" the fact that Raditz is canonically stronger than 99,99% of adult Saiyans of his generation to the point that at the time King Vegeta, Paragus, Broly, Prince Vegeta, Goku, Nappa and Bardock were the only adult Saiyans stronger than Raditz was at the time, which is why Raditz was canonically of the few adult Saiyans of his generation to be actually strong enough to have the honor of being chosen as one of Prince Vegeta's bodyguards, while most adult Saiyans of Raditz's generation were relatively too weak (by Prince Vegeta's standards) for Prince Vegeta to want to give them the chance of becoming Prince Vegeta's bodyguards.

When I say "Prince Vegeta's bodyguard" I meant "Prince Vegeta's enforcer", which is pretty much the same on Saiyan culture.

What you said used to be canon until Dragon Ball Minus retconned most Saiyans to be actually civilians, not warriors, well that

ZGrssd was saying: "I am sorry radditz, I am afraid I can't let you do that." - the Mental Blocks.
Probably isn't allowed to use the power against Kais.

Joey21 was saying: arkturas was saying: Raditz literally had a far higher power level than Goku did with much less training. He should have a lot of potential
Underrated take, but you’re forgetting Son’s plot armor

CaptainKashup was saying: Definitely the result of the mental blocks that made it impossible for him to hurt "good people"
Likely, but shouldn’t work if Kai is being evil right now. Unless XXI has magic that overrides even that somehow (he probably does)
How is South Kai evil here? He is stopping a assassination, while enforcing the rules for the tournament.
That is neutral to good.
Because he’s literally killing someone

I see a lot of people assuming things here, only by this one page, even comparing this to Son Bra again for some reason. Sorry, but to be honest I think it's kinda funny how fast some people jump to conclusions here sometimes. How about we just wait how this plays out, instead of instantly going into the "Raditz being a weak joke character" mode again? Additionally, as iron leaf already said, it's probably better to just ignore chapter 100 in the future.

All I can say for now is, that it wouldn't make sense for Old Kai to lie here. He gave Raditz the ritual in order to make him stronger than U13 Vegeta (page 1122), and if he didn't knew damn well before they began, that Raditz would be stronger than his Vegeta (so stronger as a SSJ3, hence also stronger as South Kaioshin) in the end, he wouldn't even have started the ritual.

Surely there will be a good explanation for everything in the upcoming pages... ;)

Exactly, that's one of the reasons. Most "fans" these days knows DBZ from TFS. So, to them, Raditz (and Yamcha) is nothing but a joke. It's one of the reasons I dislike TFS.

But TFS is not the only ones, even in some DBZ games both old and new, I see the "Raditz is weakling" thing. It's certainly not just a western mindset and I really want to know from where it came from.

Please refrain from such sarcastic comments. Please elaborate on your argument if you want to discuss it. And please without subliminal provocations.

I truly doubt anybody is going to be satisfied if a decade in the making plot point is resolved with "lol mental blocks" and then Raditz just dies.
That's just bad writing.

That's not what the problem is.
The problem is Raditz actually being stronger than South Supreme Kai in the first place.
Because that means that he really should have just destroyed Super Saiyan 3 Vegeta on his lonesome, and the additional (immense) powerup that he should have received from fusing with Kakarot means that the whole "what-if" vision chapter that Old Kai had was simply nonsensical.
I truly doubt anybody is going to be satisfied if a decade in the making plot point is resolved with "lol mental blocks" and then Raditz just dies.
That's just bad writing.

To be fair, dreams can be nonsensical. But it would make that chapter utterly pointless (but honestly it already was).

Likely, but shouldn’t work if Kai is being evil right now. Unless XXI has magic that overrides even that somehow (he probably does)

Not only wasn't Ultimate Raditz close to the newly transformed Super Saiyan 3 Prince Vegeta, but it genuinely seemed as if Ultimate Kakaditz was barely able to match him, too. Only able to compete against him by virtue of his immortality.
Which means that either Old Kai is full of crap about Raditz being far stronger than South Supreme Kai, or Super Saiyan 3 Prince Vegeta is at least around Super Saiyan 2 Vegito tier, if not Super Saiyan 3.
Which is just nonsensical.

The Old Kai vision chapter was an extremely weird choice that in mind.
DBM's already wonky powerscaling has finally become nonsense tier.

ok, so I would think it funny if androids 17 and 18 were granted the multiverse travel ability, and they hijack the machine, and strand xxi in u0.

and the "all universes are in danger" line is hyberbole as xxi faces everyone in a very awkward situation.

that, or piccolo saying that line happens, but he's doing his best "movie trailer voice" impression aka don la fontaine, and it amounts to piccolo or a piccolo cosplayer doing the whole "in a world where..." shtik.

anyway, the multiverse being in danger would seem to hinge on xxi's plan coming to fruition in some way.

so...I guess it either works, or he wins in some other way

U5 XXI can chose which parts of his memories and knowledge he shows to those DBM villains, which is why those U14 Androids do not know about the information that on the DBM versions of most universes the other XXIs were already defeated at some point 75 billions of years ago.

Saying "no" to U5 XXI's offer is not an option for most of those DBM villains, because most of those DBM villains are not fast enough to dodge U5 XXI's magical smoke.

If U5 XXI wanted, he could just use his magical smoke to outright absorb those DBM villains's bodies on the spot, the reason why U5 XXI has not absorbed those DBM villains's bodies is because if U5 XXI absorbs those DBM villains's bodies, those DBM villains's bodies would be considered Universe 5 beings, thus making it easier for the Vargas to send those DBM villains to another universe, and if the Vargas send those DBM villains to another universe it would prevent them from causing the distraction that U5 XXI wants.

All of the (still physically present) DBM tournament fighters in-universe already saw what U5 XXI's magical smoke did to Gast's body, however most DBM villains are not fast enough to dodge U5 XXI's magical smoke, thus refusing U5 XXI's offer is not an option for most DBM villains.

U5 XXI's magical smoke is an area of effect attack that is faster than Gast. Even if Gast was weakened at the time, Gast's powerlevel would still be high enough to give him the ability to move significantly much more faster than most of those DBM villains talking with U5 XXI could anyway.

I hope that what you said is true, because if it is true then U18 Goku would not get blitzed by U5 XXI's magical smoke.

Infinite resources/land are perhaps irresistible but I'd be scared of accidentally entering a universe destroyed by Carbonite/Broly/XXI or getting caught by a Zen Buu.

CompactCoven was saying: Starting to think back on that flashback to everyone's favorite time-stopping artificial lifeform, we haven't seen what that was about yet, but considering how we got a flashback to it, it's gonna be relevant

We know that he wanted to destroy the vargas technology (to prevent Xxi from doing evil) and that he fired one last ki attack into space, unless he was somehow able to control the trajectory of ki attacks whilst being deceased it's probably not going to turn around and hit the control room or something. This means he must be aiming at something that is deep in space, what do we possibly know about universe 0 outside of the arena? There's only 1 thing i can think of: The drone of page 2061 . If someone else wanted to be the hero they would risk being sent back to their universe by the back up drone, if the drone is destroyed then the hero(s) would have a fighting chance to beat Xxi, or at least that is what I'K'L's thought process would be.

@TheSloppaSituation_&_ CompactCoven
You have recognized yourselves that you are off-topic. Please take the discussion elsewhere. Be it the DBM forum or Discord. And please no subliminal insults like last time, otherwise the whole debate will be deleted.

— Bloodlusted Vigilante
"Buu is god and Buu is manipulating everything, and also he's taken control of the only feasible way to send him home." - The organizer who has lost his mind
is justification enough for anybody to act. Especially against a potential threat to the entire multiverse. But DA RULEZ are weirdly omnipotent in this story when needed.
— Retconning Babidi's statements.
At the point in which he acquires Son Bra, Babidi should no longer care about Buu as much, he's got somebody MUCH more powerful and much more loyal to him and willing to protect him, and with the power of the Multiverse Travel Tech, he should easily be able to get as many Buus as he wants if he does win. Buu is so useless to him that he is literally tricked and used against him.
— Retconning the way the cocoon works
"Attack that can destroy Buu."
Also, Gohan attacked it in this very story in the Future Saga, and it literally KILLED Buu when it was opened prematurely, so wrong on both counts.
— send him back for attacking a fellow competitor
I feel like they might've made allowances considering the speech Fat Kai made.

We won't know the specifics until we see the backstory, but we do know that Gast faced Buu before, and in turn probably also faced Dabura and Babidi, too. While we can't know for sure, he should have some degree of awareness as to Buu's cocoon and that the dial ticking up means that it's gaining energy. He should've at least been curious as to why the Varga said "Huh, what's this" as he should've been able to hear thanks to his hearing, though.

I mean, Bra has an overwhelming amount of power, more than enough that she'd be able to release Majin Buu from the cocoon once again without even being that winded from the effort of doing so. The seal isn't a permanent thing. But this is more a problem of Babidi being a short-sided fool than anything else. Getting rid of the all-powerful variant of Buu that you have no hope of controlling should be worth the risk.

As above, see below, we know that Gast has fought Buu in his past, but we don't know just how much information he has on stuff like the cocoon. It's pointless to really speculate there.

I feel like everyone in the story is fundamentally downplaying the idea of "multiversal threat" for some reason. Not to say Gast would've done something like that, but that he probably should have, considering the stakes are literally infinite when it comes to people like Buu or XXI.
But hey, his refusal to act got him deleted by half a dozen spells, so L slugman, I guess.

— "Would've worked in any other situation"
Completely wrong. Because it leaves Buu completely vulnerable to destruction from attacks that can kill him. Had he played his cards correctly/been smarter, Babidi with Majin Bra could've actually spoken the incantation as a precaution against Zen Buu and had Bra destroy him like that.

Technically speaking, this would've been a complete loss for Buu if Gast decided to take action rather than yell "WAIT!!!" like a fool. He could've very easily used the technique that destroys Buu (that we know he can use) to eradicate the orb entirely, and then there's no more Zen Buu. Then he could've pointed out that pieces of Buu flew out from the audience before he was sent home, and that Buu was almost certainly plotting another takeover.
But instead he chose to do nothing and then died.
A personal choice that I would've done to make the scene work better and to make Gast less of a dum-dum would be for Gast to attempt to take action before Buu was unsealed, only for the spells Buu placed on him to automatically activate and kill him before giving him the chance.
Because otherwise it's a total loss for Buu that he only survived because Gast held the idiot ball.

Are you being deliberately obtuse?
Note how I said "the attack that destroys Buu" and not "a ki beam"
Also, when the remote to send Buu back home fails, it's at that point that Gast should step in in the seconds he has before Buu is freed in an attempt to destroy Buu. He should KNOW at that point that Buu is about to attempt another takeover. Especially after Fat Kai's whole wordy revelation.
But instead he does nothing and then dies.

Aforementioned are not established characters. This is a spin off based on preexisting material, thus piggybacks off it’s said standard. Character debasement without structural arc is assassination. You are taking away everything that made them who they were in the source material. Next time I will be sure to preemptively explain my explanation based off the manga’s explanation preemptively.

I'd say that the character whose main characteristic was curiosity to such a level that he absorbed most of his universe just to build up a massive wealth of knowledge, skills, and powers, was in turn beaten by literally the exact same spell that stopped him the first time would constitute as some pretty flawed Doylist-motivated dismissive writing. It doesn't make much sense that "how to counterspell the spell that beats Buu" would be something he never figured out or looked into.

I just wanted to point out that the name faintly visible as the tournament winner in the Tournament Help section has changed from Mary Sue to "Mr. Satan" backwards.

Not sure if anybody else noticed.

CompactCoven was saying: FlyerBee was saying: Is one universe helping another get stronger even against the rules in any way? XXI murdering people from other universes outside the tournament fights seems much worse.
I don't think he killed anyone outside of fights. He stopped as soon as the fight was declared over against Gast

Joey21 was saying: They removed the biggest villain from Db using ‘science’, cooked him with Gast, XXI, and also Bra. He didn’t get assassinated, he got bent over and taken to the cleaners two ways from Tuesday.
A character losing is not character assassination
I agree, getting humiliated and having every power at your disposal
being one-shotted by random new enemies, is.

Is one universe helping another get stronger even against the rules in any way? XXI murdering people from other universes outside the tournament fights seems much worse.

They removed the biggest villain from Db using ‘science’, cooked him with Gast, XXI, and also Bra. He didn’t get assassinated, he got bent over and taken to the cleaners two ways from Tuesday.

TheSloppaSituation was saying: Joey21 was saying: Considering XXI has been watching the entire tourney, likely devoured all the characters, he knows what makes them tick. This is Buu escapades p.2. Which brings me to my next theory; Buu will likely come back and help since he’s been unreachable in his other Universe after banishment. Well likely see a magician battle simultaneously alongside Gogetto-gate.

Also, crazy Goku is refreshing. One of the most underrated characters. Legit never know what to expect.

Buu obviously isn't coming back to the story.
Ever. He's gone. A literal deus ex machina was expended to get rid of him after he was given near unlimited reality warping powers. (Yeah Mr. White! Yeah science!)
You'll get your magician battle when Uub returns to fight XXI with his new magical mastery at the eleventh hour.

He’ll be back. Authors are going for a grand finale. Exit chapter hinted at him finding tech; different than other character exits. If not, then authors really are going for full blow character assassinations. Unless he helps Uub telepathically from his Universe or something, or is able to remanifest by leaving a part of himself within Uub. Could make for a nice redemption arc for the pink giant.

And thus the goalpost moves from "Vegetto was always arrogant and careless" to "Vegetto has been portrayed that way in DBM for ages!"

But that does sort of ignore the glacial pace that DBM moves at, or that he quite literally wasn't careless against Broly, where the most he did was actually fight him for a bit before getting serious and ending things then and there, even if he could have kept the fight going for his own amusement as the first time he's had to get serious ever. (Which isn't true because he fought that illusion Bra once)
Nor was he careless against XXI, the blindside of the time differential was something nobody could've expected, and he wanted to end the fight immediately to stop him from doing some wizardy stuff. Nor was he careless against Ginyu-Bra, acting exactly as neccessary to get his daughter back in her proper body.

He's been consistently shown as confident but shrewd, up until the start/end of the Majin Rebellion, where he went from the Vegetto who had faith in his daughter to "The Bad Fusionman". After that point, he was just fed endless Ls, be it from Goku and Vegeta new forms, Buu, IKL or Gast.

The comparison between Vegetto suddenly doing something extremely stupid here and everything else is especially bad because the prior unseen "immunity to poison" is being used as justification for doing something extremely dumb that most people can see a mile away is going to somehow end up biting him in the ass. Especially when there are so many ways for Vegetto to get food. (Use the Dragon Balls to wish for the beans, ask the Varga to let him take a trip home to grab some beans, and the weirdness of Buu not bringing U16's Beans back for some reason still sticks out)
Rather than Vegetto doing a sensible thing and going "Oh, hey organizers, you know that time I saved you from Broly, and then attempted to save you from Buu, and then got shattered by some rando, could you maybe help me out, because that has all left me starving and in a good deal of pain."
The organizers should be more than willing to help him out there. But instead he's choosing to trust the multiverse consuming nightmare wizard doomcloud.

@Joey21_&_CompactCoven
Please refrain from leaving double posts. Rule #9: You can edit your comments. Leaving an extra comment for every quote from another user within minutes is considered spam here. Please refrain from doing so in the future.

It's literally the very first entry in the Site FAQ page.

Yes, but in the original DB manga it was intentional, not a mistake.

Keywords: DBZ showing.

DBZ showing are not canon on DBM.

Except for the notable exceptions of DBZ movies villains and one DBZ video game villain, DBZ continuity stuff is not a part of DBM according to what Salagir said about DBM being a fan made continuity of the original DB manga continuity, which is not DBZ continuity.

Vegetto being a careless idiot during his fight against Super Buu is DBZ anime filler continuity that does not happen on the original DB manga continuity. On the original DB manga continuity Vegetto was not so careless during his fight against Super Buu.

The only error was the candybeam, which to be fair he most likely didn't even know about since neither Goku or Vegeta saw Buu use it

Let me tell you, back in the 2000s, everyone I knew wondered why Vegetto didn't just do what Gokhan did in DBM Colors. Kill Buu immediately and revive everyone with the Dragonballs at the end. Because at that point, both Dende and Moori were alive. Sure, retrospectively it was very noble to save the others. However, you have to remember that in the Majin Buu arc, no one knew exactly what Buu was all about, even Shin and Babidi had incomplete or even false information regarding Buu and we kept learning new abilities and lore details surrounding the pink demon. Intentionally getting absorbed to find and free the absorbed friends and family members inside Buu sounds pretty reckless to me at this point in the Buu arc. So many variables that could have been wrong that could end up making the situation much worse (See U4 - Page 1008). So as I said, Gokhan's approach is much more effective. You can judge it now as a reader because we know it all ended well in U18, but right now, in the fight against Buutenks, the decision to kill Buu immediately makes a lot more sense than risking getting absorbed yourself and letting the bad guy win. The Z-Fighters know the Dragonballs are their safety net in case something happens. After all these years, there's nothing wrong with using the Dragonballs in exactly that way.

Very good point. I've been wondering the same thing ever since there was a night rest after all the Senzu Beans were destroyed by Son Bra. My guess is since Son Bra is also out of the tournament and no one from U16 is participating anymore, there is no reason to bring in Senzu Beans from U16 when the final is coming up anyway and they all expect to return home soon. It would be a logical precaution to ask the Vargas to allow U16 members to briefly travel to their universe so that they can bring Senzus with them. Similar to how the Varga allowed the U19 Heloites to bring their Ultra armor. However, this was so they could better participate in the tournament. I would have appreciated a page spent on this to show that the Vargas + Kaioshin declined U16's request to organize a trip to U16 specifically for Senzus. Either they all return home and stay there, or wait until the tournament is over. I think that could have been a plausible reason why U16 continue to be without Senzu even until the finals between Goku and XXI, even though some time has already passed since the MR arc.

Don't forget that Goku and Vegeta's brand new forms are so energy efficient that both of them were totally gassed within seconds of fighting and it turned into a fairly basic slugfest.
Personally if I were to show how energy efficient a form was, I wouldn't show the users becoming tired within the time it takes for a water droplet to fall. Goku mastered the Super Saiyan state a long time ago.

It's hilarious that people think that Vegetto would be at all like this. Like he's some sort of arrogant moron just because he made up a plan that worked perfectly against Buu and saved all of his loved ones. It's super funny that Salagir's version of Gokhan from the first pages of DBM Colored instead chose to instantly murder Buu and everyone inside of Buu rather than risk trying to actually save them, and that this sheer sociopathy makes him a good guy unlike Vegito who was an arrogant meanie, or something because Vegeta was about 45 minutes away from letting go of his rivalry with Goku. Nevermind that it's a complete unknown whether the dragonballs would even be able to bring somebody back if they were inside Buu when Buu was killed, but whatever, at least the Gohan in that fusion didn't have the bright idea to commit attempted murdersuicide like some Gohans might. Then again, from Son Bra, maybe murdering your friends and family members is just treated as a good thing in this setting?

Either way, treating character development like it's some computer checksum is ridiculous. Vegeta accepting Goku was stronger than him is just that.
It's not a binary thing, you can't be 99% of the way to a character development and then reset to 0.

I don't hate this, BUT, I would digest it better if there was more dialogue between Vegito and XXI. The latter mentioned should be trying to convince Vegito more before he takes it, let alone eats it. So for anyone who's freaking tf out about 'character assassination' or whatever, it's less any of that and more like, this is just missing a couple of pages, tops. We gotta look at these things from different perspectives sometimes.

jonathan_vik was saying: So, uh, did Salagir give Vegito this previously unmentioned supposed immunity to poison to justify him eating this dark senzu bean?
I doubt it. A Vegito this strong to have a poison immunity makes sense, given how traditional spiritual martial arts training is and how much Dragon Ball exaggerates it. Plus it'd be weird if a character had the strength to clash two planets together but can die because somebody put, I don't know, something with a mild poisoning effect in their food.

https://www.dragonball-multiverse.com/en/page-418.html
I only just made this account now (although I have seen the manga) and I'm not sure on how to alter the look of links, but anyone remember bardock had the vision of vegito? Because I do (the link is above btw)

What a moron... Surely not even the dumbest Goku would actually eat that shit...

Is Vegetto this dense to take something from a wizard thinking nothing will happen? Kinda off to me imo.

So Vegito will simply eat it? Just like that? ????????

I think that maybe Zen Buu actually did teach U18 Goku and U18 Vegeta the Improved Fusion Dance technique offscreen and then that is going to be revealed at some point via a flashback.

Zen Buu did not know about U18 Goku and U18 Vegeta having unlocked the ssj0 transformation, so with Zen Buu's lack of knowledge about ssj0, Zen Buu would believe that U18 Goku and U18 Vegeta did not have any chance of defeating Gast, U5 XXI, U16 Vegetto and U16 Bra, thus Zen Buu may have taught to U18 Goku and U18 Vegeta the Improved Fusion Dance technique to make stuff/fights more interesting.

In addition, an U18 Gogeta who had never trained while fused is significantly weaker than a U16 Vegetto who had trained his potara fused body for 20 years, thus U18 Gogeta using the ssj0 transformation is not enough to counter the 20 years of powerlevel gains from training that U16 Vegetto got for training his potara fused body for 20 years.

The last panel of page 2487 shows that U5 XXI is trying to make his smoke make physical contact with U16 Vegetto, thus it seems like that U5 XXI is trying to absorb U16 Vegetto.

During the events of page 2450 and page 2487 U5 XXI is somehow actually physically present on both the U5 room and the U16 room at the same time, one U5 XXI's body is talking with U16 Bra while the other U5 XXI's body is talking with U16 Vegetto, this means that U5 XXI is either actually capable of possessing several bodies at the same time or U5 XXI can use instant transmission to quickly teleport from one room to the other room.

Elder Kai said the guy who sealed him wasn't as dangerous as Buu, although his knowledge may be outdated by some 75 million years.

amcc0127 was saying: I am starting to think dbm hates vegito.

Lost easily against xxi
1 shot kill by ikl
Was not able to defeat Majin buu
Put in place by ghast.

is the yamcha effect. in db and beginnings of z toriyama presented yamcha as a strong guy, and then had the next villains appear in the series by defeating yamcha. if someone could defeat yamcha that meaned the guy was powerful and that hyped the new guy. by the android saga yamcha was totally used up in that regard, because problem with doing it multiple times is that at the end is not that new guy is strong but that yamcha is weak, since it was overused on yamcha the guy became a joke. in dbm vegetto is used as the yamcha for these other characters. if they defeat vegetto it means they are powerful. of course if vegetto starts to lose against everyone people will start to think that vegetto is a joke too like you have pointed out

I am beginning to suspect XXI isn't originally from his own universe and it was Elder Kai who threw him there, causing the split. Although that makes absolutely no sense, in other universes they seemingly managed to defeat him pretty easily.

U5 XXI can eat energy and matter on a scale big enough to the point that he can eat an entire universe and he already had eaten the DBM version of Universe 5, thus sealing U5 XXI inside an object would result in U5 XXI eating/absorbing that object from the inside.

Is it going to turn out Vegetto tires out easily and requires some sort of recharge he hasn't got access to?

Normal healing methods and food aren't effective on him, simply because of his physiology. He has a literal planet that's devoted to growing Senzu beans for him because without that level of nutrients he'd starve.

He shouldnt be able to send Goku back because Goku was supposed to be on the arena when Vegetto loses control.

It’s true — Goku appears alive in Bardock’s visions twice, which means he survives his fight with XXI.

The Varga who said "You can trust me..." while having a malevolent eyes expression has the same white pupils on his eyes that the white eyed cloaked Varga from page 0 has. The white eyed Varga from page 1104 has the same face that the white eyed cloaked Varga from page 0 has. In addition, on page 1104 after the anthropomorphic canid from page 1104 screams he has white eyes too, which is suspicious.

Tropics was saying:
Is that normal that the outlines of the Varga's eyes reminds me of Majin?
That Varga with white pupils on his eyes reminds me of that white eyed cloaked Varga from page 0.

Nikrowzki was saying:
Same, it's like they never got the memo about the evil eyeliner lmao
I think that white eyed cloaked Varga from page 0 finally has his first canonical debut on DBM.

If that is the case, his name would be "Uuv" according to that DBM Minicomic page that revealed the Vargas's official names.

CompactCoven was saying: Super Gojita 3 was saying:
He is just standing there menacingly.

but I digress, he is acting assertive by saying "I'll keep an eye on him"

in any case, I look forward to old kai recruiting vegetto, and then xxi turns the tables by recruiting vegetto himself. that'd be neat.

vegetto has been somewhat unstable, with him wanting to murder his son over trifling things, so It might not take much other than xxi going "If I win, you can have as many fights as you want. and I'll devour universes with evil weaklings that won't amount to much. deal?" and vegetto begrudgingly accepts, as he is a battle maniac.

I am, exaggerating many of the qualities of vegetto here, so take what I post here with a grain of salt, and please refrain from being salty. kthnx
Yeye, it's in character for Gast to keep to himself, I've got nothing against that. I was just bringing it up to point out that "Looking down and leaning on a wall" doesn't indicate him being depressed

I agree

I was emphasizing your point.

The Kai's are strangely bureaucratic, considering they broke every law of the Gods when they went on their crusade to cleanse their universe of evil. Personally, I think the Old Kai should just sneak into the control room and surreptitiously sent XXI back to his own universe. He's an old man, so I doubt the control team would give him much attention.

iron leaf was saying: It is indeed strange behavior from Gast since his fight. And considering how he was acting on page 1985, immediately interfering in the events, he was almost out of character here. I suspect there must be something behind this, perhaps another subplot that will only be revealed later.
I was coming to point exactly this out, Gast didn't hesitate for even a sec before snitching Zen Buu, I'm certain that a writer as good as Salagir will have a subplot explaining all this weird attitude eventually, my guess is XXI negotiated with him, or did something to his mind so he acts like this.

Why do the Organizers and Kai’s treat the rules like they don’t make and enforce them? Spectators and participants definitely have to, but the Organizers…don’t. There is no negotiating, or retaliation, or unionizing here. (Almost) Everyone at the tournament is there by invitation of U1 and at their mercy. If the Vargas disqualify someone for being ugly, the only act of defiance is not participating. I get they wouldn’t do that bc they’re nice guys, but they’re also supposed to be smart. Allowing an evil being with insane power to participate is questionable decision even BEFORE the tournament started. After multiple disruptions, most of which threatened the lives of every person there, as well as the multiverse itself, I am here to say that the only possible way North Kai waves off Old Kai’s warning that there is yet another fighter there with ill intent, and it’s the same fighter who beat Vegito, Buu, and Gast, is if he has advanced dementia.

Both I and several other users on this site have called it when we said that U18 Goku cannot defeat U5 XXI.

He is just standing there menacingly.

but I digress, he is acting assertive by saying "I'll keep an eye on him"

in any case, I look forward to old kai recruiting vegetto, and then xxi turns the tables by recruiting vegetto himself. that'd be neat.

vegetto has been somewhat unstable, with him wanting to murder his son over trifling things, so It might not take much other than xxi going "If I win, you can have as many fights as you want. and I'll devour universes with evil weaklings that won't amount to much. deal?" and vegetto begrudgingly accepts, as he is a battle maniac.

I am, exaggerating many of the qualities of vegetto here, so take what I post here with a grain of salt, and please refrain from being salty. kthnx

On page 2484 Gast is actually show depressed looking down at the ground sad. Did U5 XXI actually do something to Gast's soul and/or mind? It is out of character for Gast to outwardly show depression/sadness/angst.

Even if that was the case DBM has still not explained yet why Gast is depressed on page 2484

Everyone here is mentioning how similar XX1 is to Moro. But nobody has yet mentioned how XX1 is named "The World"? As in his name is XX1 "The World", like the Yugioh card: Arcana Force XXI - The World?

She made a mistake, she didn't made them equal. She just swapped sex.
Vegeta is still a saiyan that can go above ssj2 at that time.
Also there is no evidence thar female saiyan were weaker than males.
Since they are a warrior race, most likely they are quite close to each other, plus since they are prone to zenkai, a female that has a lot of experience can be stroger than a male that doesn't fight..
Here vegeta didn't even need to go super saiyan..

Getting some strong Bowsette vibes that I'm not digging.

Just noticed, but this Cell still has his tail. I mean, technically, so did the Perfect Cell we know, but his was vestigial.