No, we don't "easily understand". What would Kaioken x4, x10 and x20 be in this context? Kaio-ken is a multiplier, and even Toriyama and Toei still used Kaio-ken x10 in DBS. Because it doesn't matter if we know the exact power levels, hearing "he's n times stronger now" is good enough already and there's absolutely nothing bad about it.

I agree. There is a good reason why Toriyama himself removed numerical power levels after Namek. The scouters and the precise calculation of a person's strength made the story flat. It was only about whether someone could increase their number with a power-up burst. If you can calculate every outcome with math, it all quickly becomes very boring.

We no longer have statements like, “He is exactly 34 times stronger than the other.” Instead, we simply say, “He is stronger than the other.”

That's why it's a good idea to keep the exact numbers vague. This also applies to the Kaioken. And the new multiplier system introduced in DBM. The inexorable distortion seems to have adopted the DBM system. There are Kaioken Level 1, Level 2, Maximum, and Transcended. (Maybe others that I've forgotten). We easily understand what each Kaioken means in the context of the story. However, at the same time, it prevents us from using math to calculate whether someone is actually stronger with a specific Kaioken or not.

And Vegeta did that because...why again?

That was already confirmed by Yamcha and he informed them of this fact. There was no reason for Vegeta to put himself in this situation.

I will not give him credits for putting himself in a vulnerable situation. He stated that he saw Goku's fight.
The moron literally put himself in vulnerable situation just to act cool. If Dr. Gero stoop his ground and attacked, then Vegeta would looked so dumb in that fight. Which is what end up happening against Cell.

mAc Chaos was saying: brolyhater was saying: geta had to bluff Gero into running, Android 19 had drained a lot of energy from him. If Gero decided to fight Vegeta right there Vegeta would've lost. This is stated in the manga.

That is only because he was too busy flexing by letting 19 drain him. What if he took it seriously and just beat 19 without that? Then he probably would've beaten 20 too.

I mean maybe, but that's out of character. Vegeta was feeling himself and wanted to show off, unless Android 19 was stronger than him he wouldn't have taken it seriously.

Ok I need to know, is the Piccolo behind the GAME OVER screen from an actual video game? It reminds me of maybe Budokai...

It does look like him, maybe doing a flip. The position is hard to decipher, since the text covers it.

Where did you get the "realm" from?
For the rest, sounds like a solid deduction, I didn't think of the character that may be the pluralizer!

papupata was saying: On a meta level it makes no sense that there's no conflict, that this is just an uneventful wrap-up. That's why I'm curious to see what happens next.
I already addressed that in my comment. You're using Doylist reasoning. That's not good enough. Everything needs both a good Watsonian reason for happening as well as a good Doylist reason for happening. Things only happening for a Watsonian reason and no Doylist one makes for pointless filler and padding. Things only happening for a Doylist reason and no Watsonian one makes for nonsensical decisions and plot developments.

I don't want a meta reason because I already know the meta reason. I need a good in-universe reason for why XXI would sabotage the tournament after he's already won it. Why?

I thought that maybe universe travelling could only be granted with universe 1 dragon balls. But it looks like the wish is going to be done with dragon balls from 3456. So uuuuh, yeah.

Lucas was saying:
Also, South just wants to send everyone home? I thought he meant to eliminate everyone last time we saw him speak about that...
If I remember correctly, South Kai has always been for ending the tournament immediately and sending everyone back since at least the Babidi episode. I don't know where he mentioned anything to the effect of wanting to "eliminate" everyone, or ANYONE...

Self designated tournament police. I think that's how the DB Canon police see themselves, telling people what is and isn't allowed in a fanfic. xD

ZenBuu was saying: Who else died besides Goku?
IIRC U16 Pan died after getting getting choked out by Bojack on Page 134, that death specifically sat with me given how cruel and one-sided the fight was.

It's clear (now) that XXI should be disqualified for killing Goku.

But you do realize, that this here is all for free to read, right? That's a huge difference to the examples that you named. If you payed actual money for DBM here, I could understand being angry to a certain extent. You payed for something, so you have expectations. That's totally fine and understandable. Though you don't pay money to read DBM. It's all freely available to read here, for everyone worldwide. No paywall, nothing. And some people here just go way overboard with their emotions and simply don't know when to stop. That's a fact.

I said it dozens of times in the past already. No, it doesn't shield it completely from criticism, please stop repeating this nonsense all the time, guys. BUT it's the way said criticism is delivered. You (I'm not talking about you specifically, people who I mention probably know I mean them...) don't have to be a mean asshole while expressing your disappointment. That's a fine line that people cross pretty easily.

Cell was at a disadvantage at the beginning and had to be clever about the way he solved the many issues he encountered. He had to nerf himself to fit in the time machine, then he had to strategically plant himself to wait for Android and himself to regrow to regular size. Then he had to outsmart Piccolo to escape him and sneakily absorb humans to become strong enough. The he manoeuvred around A16 to absorb A17 and again had to outsmart Vegeta to absorb A18. Despite losing to SSJ2 Gohan he still almost managed to secure victory with a risky tactic.
Toriyama wrote Cell completely ad hoc but this is only a testament to his writing prowess that he was able to accomplish this without planning things years ahead.
The reason why we love Cell is because we see his clever plans from start to finish, his struggle against everyone else and the risks he takes to accomplish are very real. If Piccolo was less distracted, Cell would've died, if Vegeta wasn't feeling generous that day, Cell would've died, if Trunks wasn't so green and didn't fall for the Solar Flare, Cell would've died etc.
XXI on the other hand never has to take any risks. Even Batman has to take risks with his gambits. An overly cautious character can be well written but ultimately it is the writer that puts them in certain situations. Why not put XXI in an unexpected situation where he has to show his mental acumen and mettle? Something to test him and make the audience more sympathetic towards him?

You joke but anything after imperfect cell was garbage. Perfect cell is a horrible villain.

But newly introduced characters are usually the focus of new arcs. In an abstract way, every new character in a new arc would be an OC. For example. Pilaf arc has established the first characters. This means that later Red Ribbon are all OC. And later Tien and Piccolo, etc. Let's look at Future Trunks not from the perspective of a DB fan, but someone who only knows DB up to the Freeza Arc, and then is suddenly confronted with Future Trunks. You would instinctively roll your eyes. Why of all things the newly introduced character (in an abstract way an OC to previous established story with all the characters) is an SSJ1, and defeats Freeza. Makes everyone (except Goku) look old.

DBM is a new arc after EoZ in an abstract way. Strictly speaking, when a fanfic introduces OCs, I actually expect them to be relevant. We don't need something like the Magical Girls from U6.

I'm fine with it. We're going to get a huge brawl soon anyway.

OK. Let's calm down for now, please.

Ok, some people here get so worked up that it soon gets completely out of hand.

@CompactCoven, Kururun, TheSloppaSituation, JustSaiyan, Gast Greatness, Your nickel, A Saiyan

Try again but this time without getting emotional.

Is this a mind trick that makes Goku remember a time he died, and the crowd is shocked because Goku collapsed for no apparent reason?

That or we look around the audience and notice all the androids are also dead?

Philsdesign was saying: So is the reveal going to be XXI can make your body "remember" past injuries, in this case the fight with Radditz (the wound is identical)

He did say he didn't need the wish for the match since his victory was already assured before the match started and the initial idea was to have Goku repeat his "I quit" from the Cell fight because his brain thought that was happening

Would also explain why he didn't use this on Vegetto (who has never been injured at that point), #18 (again, never injured), Buu (can heal from anything) or Ghast (also never seriously injured and can regenerate)

Or... An undone wish? He was wished back to life from this wound, so now it's a wish undone?

Maybe for now but what if at some point U5 XXI summons U5 Ozotto?

I never said that Majin Ozotto is canon on Dragon Ball manga.

What I did said was that advert for an arcade video game found on Dragon Ball manga does makes Majin Ozotto canon on DBM continuity even if he is not canon on DB manga, because Salagir said that everything from Dragon Ball manga is canon on DBM, thus by that logic Majin Ozotto is canon on DBM even if he is not canon on DB manga.

Friendly reminder that U5 XXI could summon U13 Vegeta, U13 Nappa, U13 Kakaroto, U14 Android 17, U14 Android 18, U8 Frieza, U8 Cooler and U8 Ginyu, because we saw them becoming extensions of U5 XXI when he put pieces of himself inside their bodies. Page 2446 shows that a portion of U7 Gast's body was absorbed by U5 XXI, thus explaining U7 Gast's suspicious behavior.

Page 2446 shows that a portion of U7 Gast's body was absorbed by U5 XXI, which explains U7 Gast's suspicious behavior, thus there is a chance that U5 XXI could summon U7 Gast and make him fight U18 Goku.

Salagir said that everything that everything from the original DB manga is canon on DBM unless Salagir says otherwise; Majin Ozotto the Super Monster appeared on one page of the original DB manga, thus U5 XXI could summon U5 Majin Ozotto the Super Monster without contradicting Salagir's previous comments.

It took 45 million years for U5 XXI to devour the DBM version of Universe 5, thus any U5 character 45 million years old or older was absorbed by U5 XXI and could be summoned by U5 XXI too.

45 million years old (or older) U5 characters from the original DB manga that U5 XXI could potentially summon:
— U5 Arale via time travel: She time traveled 75 years to the past during the events of Dr. Slum. And unlike Bulma's time machine, Senbei Norimaki's time machine can and has actually been used for actual time travel instead of sending someone to a "past universe".
— U5 Kid Buu.
— U5 Majin Ozotto the Super Monster.
— U5 Dabura.
— U5 Elder Kai, and those U5 Elder Kai's generation U5 Kaioshins.
— U5 Grand Kai, U5 King Kai and other U5 Kais.
— U5 King Yemma.
— U5 Toribot.
— U5 Mr. Popo.
— U5 pre-cataclism ancient Namekians. They could potentially be a threat to U18 Goku if U5 XXI summons them, because ancient Namekians from the time before the cataclism happened on planet Namek were siginificantly much more stronger and technologically advanced than Namek Saga Namekians, to the point that a pre-cataclism Namekian such as the pre-split Nameless Namekian (who was stronger than Namek Saga Frieza according to what Guru said) was significantly stronger than all Namek Saga Warrior Clan Namekians despite the pre-split Nameless Namekian being a Dragon Clan Namekian. This means that ancient Namekians from 45 millions years ago are each at least stronger than Namek Saga Warrior Clan Namekians.

Remember SSJ2 kid Gohan lost an arm while saving Vegeta in the same way. How does Yamucha receive not much damage here?

I'm going to point out the elephant in the room: U5 XXI is not a living being with a soul, thus U18 Goku would not be able to detect U5 XXI's artificial ki signature.

U18 Goku is not more of a "genius when it comes to battling" than U16 Vegetto is.

Your nickel was saying: Would be nice for new minicomics to get mentioned in the news section. Can be confusing for a bit when no new page drops
This is a fake sequel. Obviously it won't be mentioned in the news.

Why on earth would you take away the “latest page” link on the read page... am I missing something? biggest UX fail in the history of websites.

No I don't think they should be enemies who want to kill each other at all costs, I just think that Goku should have been on his guard and transformed before touching the ring just in case. Even if you are completely right about the Vegeta and the nature of their rivalry, it would still be good to get into the habit of transforming before touching the ring.

It's not like doing so would harm Goku in any way.

Because Cell isn't worth it for Vegeta to use his full power? Why do you think Vegeta only fought him in SSJ2?

Cell also threatened his daughter, Bra, during the Majin rebellion. Vegeta has zero respect for Cell, but of course he has respect for his rival and friend Goku. His full power was only reserved for their ultimate battle. (Page 743)

How can someone misinterpret this so hard? I really don't understand it.

If Vegeta chooses not to capitalise on a very blatant opening his opponent leaves him in the middle of a fight, that's not respect, that's pity. Are you telling me Vegeta's character development means he now pities Goku? It's almost like he's saying, "I don't even need to exploit his blatant openings because I am so much better."

This is going to be very interesting!

My guess would be, that XXI either wins that fight of that he will not accept his defeat.

Nope, that logic doesn't hold because Vegeta could have just pretended he was going to do the same as Goku, waited until Goku closed his eyes, and turned Super Saiyan 3 and oneshotted Goku in an instant. Vegeta had previously shown he was willing to fight dirty to win when he beat Cell by fighting dirty and loudly proclaiming he is willing to fight dirty to win. He didn't do it against Goku because he's an idiot. Goku wasn't on guard against that because he too is an idiot. Salagir doesn't know how to write combat geniuses. His attempts to portray a character as a combat genius just seem to divide their IQ by 20.

I just counted the pages that are left, that should be 970, plus-minus a couple of units I missed, to reach current today!
IF the current (ungodly good) rhythm of 4 pages per week was kept, that would mean that in 242.5 weeks we'd reach the beginning of the finals.
That's 4.66 years from now, or 4 years 8 months.
Cool times await us! :)

All? Cell is missing on this chapter cover.

A throwback to all of Gokus former tournament final battles. I love it.

CompactCoven was saying: Paladin was saying: Remember when Salagir said that IKL was a gag character? I still do.
I keep hearing that, but I have no idea where that would've been posted. Was this on his twitter, discord, or somewhere in the comments?

That was his initial idea, as a parody of the demon kid in yuyuhakusho.

that idea changed and evolved over time, but yeah that was sals 1st draft on ikl

Remember when Salagir said that IKL was a gag character? I still do.

Angry_Bear_MD was saying: Not sure if it's been answered but Is the "latest page" button gone for others at the home page?
CompactCoven was saying: I was wondering about that
Yes, the “Latest Page” button has been replaced with a “First Page” button. The first page of each comic here on the DBM website will also display an image of the reading direction.

And so we have reached the trifecta of bad writing tropes:
— mind control
— and his name is... un-reveal
— read the fine print

To everyone who is wondering about the small changes on the website, Salagir wrote this on discord:

Little update on the website. It's simpler now, that we have the admin "Read" page to manage our comics.
* The release rhythm countdown is removed
* The link to the last page is removed.
* Link to first page is changed from "fist" to "comic page".
Also on each comic, on the first pages, the "reading direction" is displayed on top.
I hope all this will help new readers. Old readers can use the admin.

Not sure if it's been answered but Is the "latest page" button gone for others at the home page?

Just like the people who claimed that the fight between Goku and Vegeta was definitely over with the one-punch scene, and we definitely won't get a sequel. Or when Bujin claimed that XXI was definitely gone and we wouldn't get to see him anymore. ;)
Some people jump to conclusions and don't think outside the box. Although DBM of all things gives you enough time to think up every possible scenario until the plot is advanced.

iron leaf was saying: with I'K'L, why South is acting so strange.
Because U1 South Kaioshin is possessed by U15 I'K'L. On several works of fiction when a character is possessed and/or mind controlled they have spirals on their eyes; the last panel of page 2505 shows U1 South Kaioshin's eyes having spirals, thus U1 South Kaioshin is possessed by U15 I'K'L.

felfury88 was saying: Oh, that’s bull! That should have worked!

Okay I have been seeing people argue for years with this writer about their logic that the Mafuba becomes obsolete at a certain point; sorry for the long post but Imma hop on my soap box about this.

Isn't that the whole damn point of The Mafuba? It never succeeds and always makes the situation worse.

To me Toryama seemed to use the Mafuba as a critique of the notion of the Bushido tactics from WW2 Japan, and how killing oneself to protect loved ones or atone for mistakes -Is-Not-The-Answer-.

So the first time it's used is by Mutaito; he is heartbroken and feels guilty that Piccolo and his demons killed most of his students, so he invents this deadly move and uses it. He is essentially choosing to atone for the death of his students by sacrificing himself to stop Piccolo.

It did not work; Piccolo is back in a few centuries

When Roshi is telling the gang about this Tien takes it as this grand, noble sacrifice on the part of Mutaito; and as the answer to their problems. He even says "I have to experience it at least once" or something like that. Keep in mind Tien is pretty much the same age of those "Special Attack" units in WW2 Japan that did suicide missions.

Roshi, who is WAY wiser than anyone else in the show points out that it's not the answer, but in the end he uses it against Piccolo in an effort to save Tien and Chaotzu from getting killed fighting, and because he feels guilty over the (perceived) death of Goku and wants to atone like his master did.

He misses the jar and it doesn't work

It doesn't even work in detering Tien or Chaotzu, the latter of whom is then killed by Piccolo thanks (in part) to Tien.
Now Tien feels guilty about spending his life hurting people, and (in his eyes) failing Chaotzu and Master Roshi.
He decides to try it against Piccolo.

His Jar is cracked and his plan doesn't work
I kind of feel like this is meant to reflect the kamikaze pilot Takehiko Ena's story. He ended up surviving because his jet had engine troubles and was never able to take off.

Then Kami uses it against Junior; he had no intention of dying from the move, but...

Piccolo had made a counter measure against it and the Mafuba doesn't work

To me this kind of reflected the Showa generals who orchestrated Kamikaze attacks; they should have realized it was a dumb tactic and stopped using it. It was devastating early on in the war but by the end of WW2 these tactics were easier to identify for the Allied armies and kind of lost their effectiveness. Despite this Japan was still training Special Attack units up until the end of the war.

So, if The Mafuba was Akira Toryama's nod to Japan's use of Bushido/Special Spirit tactics (and propaganda) in WW2 then pointing out that it wouldn't work and straight up becomes obsolete at a certain level of power, Like this writer does, isn't just a valid argument.

it's the whole damn point of the technique.

Honestly the author here has done a great job on showing it. Chaotzu has been doing a lot here; he saved Tien's life, he's being using telekinesis to stop Nappa, and Vegeta even took notice of this a few pages ago (at least I thought he did). Listening to Tien and running away (and potentially pulling a Yajirobe and coming back for a sneak attack later) would have been such a better idea than using a move that they've never actually seen stop a threat and almost always ends in the death of the user.

So does this mean Cell is stronger than U13 Vegeta's SSJ 3 too? Interesting.

Even those DBM's most hardcore fans who had defended how U16 Bra, U16 Vegetto and U1 South Kaioshin were written despite the controversies still complained on the DBM comments section about the DBM plot making the U9 characters exit the story. The DBM plot making the U9 characters exit the story was much more negatively received by the grand majority of DBM fans than the other choices Salagir made for the DBM plot/story. Thus I think that Salagir did not realize how making the U9 characters exit the story was going to get so very negatively received by the grand majority of DBM fans.

Comic-P was saying: U9 were one of the cooler universes that overall felt pretty underused. It'd be one thing if they had been highly used up to now. But they really haven't. Yamcha had his cool moment, but that's kind of it.
I'm not quite sure why all of U9 had to leave either, guess it was just the collateral damage, because Old Kai "had" to go.

Buuut... Since we know for sure now, that XXI wants to consume all the other universes, there is still a pretty fair chance that we see all the other universes, that already went or were sent home from the tournament, again. That would also include Zen Buu... that is, IF XXI succeeds.
Maybe even some other universes, outside of the 20 we've seen at the tournament, who knows. :)

U13 Mystic Raditz's mental blocks made him immune to getting majinized by U11 Babidi during the Majin Rebelion arc, thus Mystic U13 Raditz's mental blocks have protected him against mind affecting spells and effects.

I - KEEP - SAYING - IT ... ...


Old Kaioshin thinks of himself as soooo smart, i bet. But why should Radditz now keep HIS end and bargain of the deal ? He WAS tricked. It is not a Lie.

There is a good point that some people make. Has South Kaioshin ever shown that he can read minds? Probably, but have we ever seen it? There could well be a possibility that mind reading is not one of South's strengths and that is why he has never worked on improving this skill?

I also have to raise a question, how often do we actually see Kaioshin's mind reading in DBZ? Serious question, because I'm not sure about this at all.

Time to mention the elephant in the room: Page 2489 shows that when U16 Vegetto is bitting that shadowy "senzu bean" his left eye color has changed to the same gray color that Uuv's eyes have when Uuv is evil/mind controlled/possessed.

Page 2489 shows that when U16 Vegetto is bitting that shadowy "senzu bean" his left eye color has changed to the same gray color that Uuv's eyes have when Uuv is evil/mind controlled/possessed. Yes, on page 418 when U16 Vegetto says "I'll kill you all if I have to!!" his (U16 Vegetto)'s eyes colors have the same gray color that Uuv's eyes have when Uuv is evil/mind controlled/possessed.

If you please, please take a look at Bardock's vision on page 418 where when U16 Vegetto says "I'll kill you all if I have to!!" his (U16 Vegetto)'s eyes colors have the same gray color that Uuv's eyes have when Uuv is evil/mind controlled/possessed.

But on that same page 418 it shows that Bra, U18 Piccolo, U18 Goku and U18 Vegeta have normal eyes colors, thus Salagir and Gogeta Jr deliberately intentionally chose to give U16 Vegetto's eyes a gray eyes color on page 418.

It is very possible that there are many more remote controls. But in this particular case, I think DBM wanted to make sure that South didn't use the same remote from the Dark Varga. On page 2485, Uuv was given one, and today's page ensures that he will continue to have it for later events. South, most probably, fetched another remote.

The Anti-XXI side has been dismantled though.

And before someone says "U5 XXI made a wish to learn Babidi's spell", DBM actually showed us that on DBM continuity Babidi's spell did not work when one of the female Vargas tried to cast that spell on Zen Buu, thus proving that on DBM continuity knowing Babidi's spells is not enough to cast Babidi's spells, because on DBM continuity the ability to cast Babidi's spells is exclusive to those who actually have Babidi's powers. Thus U5 XXI can only cast Babidi's spells if he (U5 XXI) had absorbed/eaten U5 Babidi at some point.

U5 XXI actually did do something that would have ticked off the DBM tournament organizers if it was someone else who did it: One of the DBM tournament organizers (the U1 Namekian who hear both Gast saying "I forfeit!" and U5 XXI saying "Alas... if only the tournament organizers could you... !" on page 2444) hear that U5 XXI continued attacking Gast after Gast had surrendered, thus the DBM tournament organizers already know that U5 XXI intentionally broke the DBM tournament rules, which means that U1 South Kaioshin saying "XXI is one the rare participants who followed the rules" means that U1 South Kaioshin is either a stupid idiot moron or possessed by U5 XXI.

CompactCoven was saying: I've never felt that way from this comic, the story quality's been pretty consistently good, and the art's only gotten better over the years.
That's fair enough. You feel what you feel. The common sentiment I've seen, and share, is that while it's overall good it has some REALLY bad spots that are largely disliked. You're very much the minority but it's not like you're WRONG either since taste isn't objective.

The constant defense squad whenever people criticize seems a little silly. DBM is infamous for its sudden dips in quality and for Salagir's questionable logic at times

To be fair, the amount of comments complaining are somewhat justified, as it seems that with each successive page, the story is getting sillier. Characters are acting in barely justified ways in order to force the plot along, and after all the slow build-up, suddenly we're in a rapid sprint through plot points that people have been invested in for very long amounts of time, and a lot of people aren't going to be pleased with that.

That comparison to Goku is a ludicrous false equivalency. Goku killed somebody working for a evil world conquering army that was actively attempting to kill him, and declared an intention to kill a monstrous demonspawn that just killed his best friend. Neither of these things are evil acts.
Beating up an old kaioshin who wasn't making any attempt to attack and was instead simply trying to explain himself is an incredibly evil action. Self-defense is not evil, nor is wanting to kill demonspawn. Beating up the wisest force for good in the cosmos however is very much evil.
I get wanting to defend the plot beats of the story, but this isn't how I'd do it.
Also, having a pure heart is not the same as having a good heart. It's all about having dark intentions.

Warsuits that they have prior to the tournament and came in that way. Everyone, besides those gifted power by Zen Buu have been relying in their strengths, techniques, and what they already have.

Cell hid the fact that he was making his Cell Jr stronger because he knew it was cheating. The Vargas definitely needed to set up some anti-magic cameras in these apartments.

People criticize the publication of a page as being the same as the publication of a whole chapter. We know there's more to come, but still too often people act as if the latest published page is the last page of the chapter.

If that is the case then U9 did not break the rules for giving medical attention to U9 Elder Kai and U13 Raditz, yet U1 South Kaioshin send all U9 characters back to Universe 9 despite only U9 Elder Kai doing anything that would be considered close to rule breaking.

A person giving medical attention to a criminal does not make them an accomplice.

Ammar was saying: King Kindred was saying: XXI has been breaking the rules the entire tournament by using his own set of Dragon Balls to cheat and he's now infecting other universes.
That's not against the rules nor it's cheating.

Outside help is both against the rules and cheating. Not using your own power to gain victory in a tournament is cheating. Not sure why you think it isn't.

Outside help is against the rules. Just that XXI is crafty enough to avoid getting caught.

"It's not cheating if you never get caught" as the saying goes.

U13 Mystic Raditz has mental blocks, however the DBZ Broly movie (which is canon on DBM) showed that is it possible for someone to eventually permanently overcome mental blocks via having enough amounts of anger and/or hate, thus if U13 Mystic Raditz gets angry/hateful enough at some point he may be able to permanently overcome his mental blocks.

Because U1 South Kaioshin probably realized that if he reported what happened to the Vargas, it would probably result in the Vargas sending U1 South Kaioshin back to Universe 1 for breaking the DBM tournament rules, well that and U5 XXI not wanting the U13 Saiyans to get send back to Universe 13.

South Kai is being completely irrational. I've read several times that he's still "in character", but the fact that he trusts a wizard more than a fellow Kai is - well it's bizarre. Even his limited experience with Babidi in this tournament should have given him enough reason to doubt XXI's words. If he's not under some kind of spell or manipulation from XXI, this is one of the few things in this whole comic that will actually bother me. And I say that having been a Vegito apologist, a Majin Bra / post-Majin Bra apologist, and nearly every other controversy or claim of Mary-Sues or out of character interactions.

This just feels like one of those cheesy interactions from a sitcom that would've been resolved if the people involved communicated in a realistic manner.

ZenBuu was saying: Dislpay name was saying: In the original version these flashback memories were greyed out, i think it would have been apropriate if the colored version had a filter over it.
Maybe, just maaaaaybe, that's the reason why the background is different behind these panels...

I didn't even notice before it was pointed out by you.

Elder Kaioshin must be HIGH AS A KITE if he thinks that he can " force " Radditz to become a Warrior on the Side of Good with this.



This is a Nerf if you think about it. Now, every " good-hearted Person " in the Universe can harm RADDITZ - and Radditz will be weakened so that he will be completely helpless against them.


How many People who commit the worst Atrocities against Others truly think that they are " evil ", huh ? Most People will always tell themselves some Stuff like they are just following Orders.

Hell, even FRIEZA'S FORCES can tell themselves they have no other Choice. Because if they don't "obey" -> Frieza f~in KILLS THEM !! Like on the spot.



I'K'L was a dangerous Menace to Everyone. But was he EVIL ??? No. He was the very worst kind of " good Guy ". Radditz is fxxxed now against good-hearted People which had not a single Chance against his old Self without the Mystic Power-State.



I am honest. I would 100% ask Old Kaio-Shin to take this back from me. Leave me as "weak" as before. But this ? This is Bullshit. HOW MANY People in the Galaxy hate Saiyans for what the People of the Saiyans did ?
Now Radditz is helpless against most if not all of them. This is insane. lol

If Old Kaio-Shin wouldn't reverse this, i would simply REFUSE to kill Vegeta in the end. Because honestly -> WHY. SHOULD. RADDITZ. - do that ??

Vegeta is now the Life-Line for him.
Radditz is NOT immortal like Kakkaroth. And now most People can easily kill him.

Kakkarot is one thing. But Vegeta is smarter than him. AND stronger than Kakkarot. Radditz will need Vegeta as a Bodyguard against anyone who is not truly and actually evil.

But if Videl tries to beat him up for no reason, doesn't that make her the bad guy, which means Raditz will be able to access his power?

Ah yes, it's limiting his power output, and it's of course a good deal easier to lift yourself into the air using spiritual energy than it is to hold up an old man who is far lighter than you.
I don't quite understand why you're making this argument. Ki flight isn't an easy thing to do at all, and it's clear that the power block just stops ANY sort of action against "non evil" enemies, to the point where Raditz couldn't even defend himself. It stops Raditz from using ANY power in situations like the one he was just in, and it even prevented him from using his newfound power purely defensively which should have allowed him to have easily facetanked anything that South Supreme Kai could've dished out without needing to alert the entire tournament by powering up.

Seems that somebody is forgetting just how energy intensive the Buukujutsu is, sure, it's easy if you're somebody like Saiyan Saga Raditz, but when you make him too weak to do something that even Goku at the very start of Dragonball could do easily (lift up an old man), then Raditz is going to die to wild animals.
It might be standard issue after a certain point, but Tien could only fly for a limited amount of time himself, and somebody like Mercenary Tao, despite literally being a member (and brother of the founder) of the school of martial arts that invented the technique was himself incapable of using it.

And there's not "two possibilities". The block refused to let him defend himself against somebody outright doing the bidding of evil, albeit unwittingly. It doesn't care about the motive at all, it's just whether the person attacking him is "evil".

CompactCoven was saying: jonathan_vik was saying: CompactCoven was saying:
No, he has all his strength. He just can't use it to murder civilians

He can't use it to even fight a dog. Being only able to use his powers on evil foes is more a limitation than it might seem.
Why would he need to fight a dog, he can just fly away

Not if the dog bites him and latches on.
He can't even lift a frail old man half his size thanks to Old Kai.

CompactCoven was saying:
No, he has all his strength. He just can't use it to murder civilians

He can't use it to even fight a dog. Being only able to use his powers on evil foes is more a limitation than it might seem.

The way that eg. the dragon, or the spirit bomb knows how someone is pure hearted, or evil in such a grey world, is already a suspension of disbelief... But Raditz's entire ki essence being able to auto-draw/withdraw is just abusing the mechanics. The only way to redeem this concept, that I can think of is that Raditz could be fighting someone who is tempted by the dark side, and as the fight continues the opponent gives into their darker urges, which ironically for them causes Raditz to gain the upper hand and stomp. Because remember kids, only a sith deals in absolutes.

So he literally crippled raditz by putting a condition on his natural strength he's put raditz in chains for the rest of his life

Lol slowly realizing this is more of a gag fan-manga than a actual story driven fan-manga . I'm seeing holes in the story as it goes on . NEVER could I lose interest , but I'm not taking the story serious lol not anymore

I just wanted to link the actual page. In DBM, it's mentioned on page 560 that Dai Kaioshin destroyed his brain at the last moment before absorption.

Hmm, not sure how I feel about this new restriction to the Kai unlock potential ability. Ah well, it shouldn't affect the story!

Also, glad to see that the two of them made it out alive!

There is nkwhere in Canon story that says mystoc power is limited to against evil beings

I say bs on this story

Thank all that is good, that I no longer have to question how the powerscaling in chapter 100 might coincide with the main story's.

Another good and evil test in Dragon Ball is King Yenma, who's enough of an authority that no one ever really contests his judgement, though it does still come from his own mind. Surely, it must either be based off of Raditz's perception or Elder Kai's, right?

CompactCoven was saying: happywarrior99 was saying: What you said are the good news for the DBM version of Universe 13.

The bad news for the DBM version of Universe 13 are that like U18 Goku, U13 Kakarotto was born having Goku's genetic potential to eventually unlock/get the mystic power up/ssj0 on his own by just training if he survives long enough to eventually do so, and since U13 Kakarotto is immortal, well, U13 immortal Kakarotto is eventually going to eventually unlock/get the mystic power/ssj0 on his own by just training no matter what U13 Mystic Raditz does, significantly greatly surpassing U13 Mystic Raditz's powerlevel by at least two tiers in the process.

Once U13 immortal Kakarotto eventually unlocks/gets the mystic power up/ssj0 on his own by just training, significantly greatly surpassing U13 Mystic Raditz's powerlevel by at least two tiers in the process, there is nothing stopping U13 immortal Mystic Kakarotto from just enslaving U13 Mystic Raditz if U13 Mystic Raditz ever tries to stop U13 Kakarotto from killing innocent people; unless U13 Vegeta (or someone else) destroys U13 immortal Kakarotto's head and then U13 immortal Kakarotto regenerates his head but with amnesia that causes U13 immortal Kakarotto's personality to become like U18 Goku's personality.

In addition, U13 immortal Kakarotto's immortality means that once U13 immortal Kakarotto eventually unlocks his ssj3 form he (U13 immortal Kakarotto) will be able to stay on his ssj3 form all the time 24/7 for as long as he wants.
eventually U13 immortal Kakarotto and he (U13 immortal Kakarotto) will be too strong for U13 Mystic Raditz to protect the Universe 13 people from U13 immortal Kakarotto's rampages even if U13 Vegeta is killed.
I can't think of any reason Kakarotto would enslave Raditz though

happywarrior99 was saying: Except for the notable exceptions of Dragon Ball Super continuity and Dragon Ball AF continuity, on most Dragon Ball continuities it is actually a plot point that Broly was actually born a genocidal evil psychopath (even by Saiyan society standards) who had already decided when he was a new born baby to use another baby crying as an excuse to be a genocidal evil psychopath even by Saiyan society standards, because on most Dragon Ball continuities Broly was born a genocidal evil psychopath even by Saiyan society standards to the point that King Vegeta quickly noticed Broly's genocidal evil psychopathy and then he (King Vegeta) tried (but failed) to kill Broly to try to save the Saiyans from Broly's genocidal evil psychopathy.
DBS and other dragon ball fan comics are not canon, so it doesn't apply to that hypothetical

happywarrior99 was saying: Nope.

On Dragon Ball franchise Kais and Kaioshins are canonically holy even if they are evil, which is why absorbing two Kaioshins tamed Majin Buu. Thus Majin Buu would have still become as innocent and childlike as he became in canon after absorbing two Kaioshins even if Kid Buu absorbed Zamasu and Aeos.
Buu wasn't reverted into his childlike form because of holy energy, he reverted to a childlike form because the Grand Supreme Kai was an extremely benevolent peace-loving entity. That's why he only became stronger from absorbing South in the canon timeline
In DBM, South finds out that Grand Kai fried his brain just before he was absorbed, solely to act as a nerf for Buu.

What you said are the good news for the DBM version of Universe 13.

The bad news for the DBM version of Universe 13 are that like U18 Goku, U13 Kakarotto was born having Goku's genetic potential to eventually unlock/get the mystic power up/ssj0 on his own by just training if he survives long enough to eventually do so, and since U13 Kakarotto is immortal, well, U13 immortal Kakarotto is eventually going to eventually unlock/get the mystic power/ssj0 on his own by just training no matter what U13 Mystic Raditz does, significantly greatly surpassing U13 Mystic Raditz's powerlevel by at least two tiers in the process.

Once U13 immortal Kakarotto eventually unlocks/gets the mystic power up/ssj0 on his own by just training, significantly greatly surpassing U13 Mystic Raditz's powerlevel by at least two tiers in the process, there is nothing stopping U13 immortal Mystic Kakarotto from just enslaving U13 Mystic Raditz if U13 Mystic Raditz ever tries to stop U13 Kakarotto from killing innocent people; unless U13 Vegeta (or someone else) destroys U13 immortal Kakarotto's head and then U13 immortal Kakarotto regenerates his head but with amnesia that causes U13 immortal Kakarotto's personality to become like U18 Goku's personality.

In addition, U13 immortal Kakarotto's immortality means that once U13 immortal Kakarotto eventually unlocks his ssj3 form he (U13 immortal Kakarotto) will be able to stay on his ssj3 form all the time 24/7 for as long as he wants.
eventually U13 immortal Kakarotto and he (U13 immortal Kakarotto) will be too strong for U13 Mystic Raditz to protect the Universe 13 people from U13 immortal Kakarotto's rampages even if U13 Vegeta is killed.

Except for the notable exceptions of Dragon Ball Super continuity and Dragon Ball AF continuity, on most Dragon Ball continuities it is actually a plot point that Broly was actually born a genocidal evil psychopath (even by Saiyan society standards) who had already decided when he was a new born baby to use another baby crying as an excuse to be a genocidal evil psychopath even by Saiyan society standards, because on most Dragon Ball continuities Broly was born a genocidal evil psychopath even by Saiyan society standards to the point that King Vegeta quickly noticed Broly's genocidal evil psychopathy and then he (King Vegeta) tried (but failed) to kill Broly to try to save the Saiyans from Broly's genocidal evil psychopathy.

Nope.

On Dragon Ball franchise Kais and Kaioshins are canonically holy even if they are evil, which is why absorbing two Kaioshins tamed Majin Buu. Thus Majin Buu would have still become as innocent and childlike as he became in canon after absorbing two Kaioshins even if Kid Buu absorbed Zamasu and Aeos.

Every now and then this fan fiction reminds you its fan fiction with its writing. Years and years of waiting to see what happens with Raditz and we get this. Massively let down.

Also, how does this work if Raditz say, just charges an attack to nuke the area?
Not that it matters anyway.

Also, am I supposed to believe that this silly mental block works on those who are "good" but are being used by evil for the sake of doing evil against their knowledge/control?
What, does this mean that Raditz couldn't hurt Majin Bra?
Who decides what is good? Who decides what is bad? Raditz? Old Kai? Some magical enchantment that rates people on a black and white karmic scale?
What is good for some may not be good for others.
Is Raditz forced into utiliatarianism now?
Because if that was the case, then the mental block shouldn't have done anything to stop him against South Kai.

Yeah so powerful. If he's grocery shopping and a bratty 8 year old cuts him in line and he says anything to the kid, he could get his ass kicked.

He's even more useless than before, a person that goes around punching people because of sitting down in an empty apartment hardly qualifies as "good" and now that he's gonna be corrupted by XXI raditz won't be able to do squat because Kaioshins are "good".

It was all for nothing, he's even worse than when he came in. But hey at least some people are laughing their asses off because Raditz being weak is the joke of the century.

Considering this is a multiverse, there would have to be at least 1 universe where the kaioshin were kinda murder happy.

and well, the reason used kinda makes sense. to maintain order, they killed off bad guys, or those who had evil tendencies, like a the lssj.

they gave a lssj baby a chance once, it grew up to be too much so they killed the matured lssj. brolly was killed as a baby.

they don't kill for the sake of it.

south kai didn't kill radditz, and I assume he didn't kill old kai either, since his plan was to send them back to their worlds. so far thats kinda lenient. a certain kaioshin I know from dbs would have killed them for far less, but I digress, in the multiverse of infinite worlds and infinite possibilities, there exists the likes of evil goku, aka "kakarotto" and probably evena good freeza.

now whether thats due to a "nature vs nurture" thing or just another example of being hit on the head like goku was, I dunno. but its another possible universe, even if it seems unlikely.

There is certain margins to work with when it comes to characters. Like Supreme Kai (the fat one) wasnt talked much on manga or anime (DBZ), however as much as you can choose to write him in a certain way, it should still be within a supreme God. Is not an excuse to have him say, making drugs and selling them across the galaxy, it wouldn't fit what he is supposed to be. So, while you can have some freedom with the whole multiverse shtick, at what point does it make the character not resemble that character? Imagine a good Frieza

CompactCoven was saying: zero logic was saying: Serpent God was saying: Tengu was saying: South Kai is so out of character here, he is not Zamasu!
The kaioshins killed baby broly without second thoughts.

Buddy that only happened in this series, wrote by the same writer who is behind this... so literally out of character consistently.
It's in the main DBM continuity
How does that contradict what I said????? Please re read my previous message outloud if needed

Perhaps the fact that they are gods looking out to preserve life (as said on DBZ and DBS). If you think it is appropriate or logical for a Kai to beat another Kai to death... then this plot is for you I guess

Serpent God was saying: Tengu was saying: South Kai is so out of character here, he is not Zamasu!
The kaioshins killed baby broly without second thoughts.

Buddy that only happened in this series, wrote by the same writer who is behind this... so literally out of character consistently.

At the beginning of the tournament he was going to free his counterpart from majin buu (u11) body, thus altering the fate of his universe. Then he agreed to grant u16 his wish of resurrecting the contestants early than expected, showing his bias towards one universe above the others. He's just mad because the kaioshins never had control of the situation.

South Kai is so out of character here, he is not Zamasu!

You could say that about a lot of characters here...

Exacly! Honestly this is such a bullshit. He's not a bully and since from the beginning he has tried to send back the BAD GUYS and even supported stopping the tournament before it gets out of control again, but now he does the absolute opposite and decided from some reason that the continuing of the tournament is above all.

The kaioshins killed baby broly without second thoughts.

So elder kai isn't going to mentally call anyone .... im kinda over this Manga but wanna see the end

I'm confused. South is absolutely SSJ3 tier. He fought on par with U11 Buu & only lost due to his absorption side quest. Goku said that U11 Buu is stronger than our familiar U18 counterpart. Old Kai realized during his ritual that Mystic Raditz would not be enough to stop U13 Vegeta, who is a NEW SSJ3. But on the previous page, Old Kai said to Raditz that he is stronger than South "By Far" (disregarding any mental blocks). How does this make sense?
South = U11 Buu = SSJ3 Tier
Mystic Raditz < SSJ3 Emperor Vegeta
(Old Kai): Mystic Raditz > South Kai

In DBM’s settings, Raditz is the lowest level of Saiyan with lowest potential.

Right now, his power while going beyond his maximum potential is at best SSJ2 kid Gohan level.

In the other words, Raditz cannot even achieve SSJ2 no matter how hard he trains.

It was quite obvious already during the imaginary fight between ultimate Radito and U13 SSJ3 Vegeta. Two weakest SSJ2 fused together are barely stronger than SSJ3 U13 Vegeta who is the Weakest SSJ3.

But I still wonder why the Author decided to make single pure blood Saiyan with this limit.

So you're telling me we've been waiting over ten years to finally see Raditz get beaten up like that?

South Kai fought perfectly evenly vs Majin Boo. There is no way that Raditz could have been far stronger than him and also lost to a heavily weakened Vegeta. I don't know what old kai was talking about.