I am starting to think dbm hates vegito.

Lost easily against xxi
1 shot kill by ikl
Was not able to defeat Majin buu
Put in place by ghast.

I am beginning to suspect XXI isn't originally from his own universe and it was Elder Kai who threw him there, causing the split. Although that makes absolutely no sense, in other universes they seemingly managed to defeat him pretty easily.

Whaaah. This page was extremely misunderstood. Maybe one of the most misunderstood pages in DBM.
It's obviously my fault for not telling it right, but I'm on my ass that it fell so FAR short of the mark.

This page contains two revelations.
1. it explains why Vegetto ignored Son Bra when she tried to talk to him. Speculation was rife on this page and it was great. Here comes the explanation, almost no reaction.
Probably my fault: just redoing the "hang on" panel wasn't enough, maybe I should have added a panel copying Vegetto walking towards the corridor, to add some context. My fault for wanting to make as few panels as possible.
2. The Old Kaioshin reveals, quite astonished himself, that Vegetto is suddenly weaker! He felt it while he was having this privileged telepathic contact. It's a surprise for him and the reader. No, he doesn't provoke it.
It's true that if you read the text out loud, depending on the tone, the last two bubbles could come across as roast, or as a surprising discovery. That's why you have to be careful about what you write on the Internet - you never know what tone it's going to be read in!
My mistake: the old man in the last panel may not look surprised enough, and the fact that he's clenching his teeth may show him to be aggressive. I should have thought of that and asked for changes.

Ok, humans have to be at least around 10-20k power levels wise. That is why they are doing great, if they wouldn't be, ozarus would end them in seconds or there could not even be a need for ozarus. So I suspect this attack could be quite succesful even getting Gohan unconcious for while, probably long enough for humans to kill Raditz and see when vegita killes Nappa. Making it a great moment when he gets to his senses and fights against vegita Ozaru vs Ozaru with support from humans. We could actually get first full on ape on ape action in DB

…question.

Why do the Organizers and Kai’s treat the rules like they don’t make and enforce them? Spectators and participants definitely have to, but the Organizers…don’t. There is no negotiating, or retaliation, or unionizing here. (Almost) Everyone at the tournament is there by invitation of U1 and at their mercy. If the Vargas disqualify someone for being ugly, the only act of defiance is not participating. I get they wouldn’t do that bc they’re nice guys, but they’re also supposed to be smart. Allowing an evil being with insane power to participate is questionable decision even BEFORE the tournament started. After multiple disruptions, most of which threatened the lives of every person there, as well as the multiverse itself, I am here to say that the only possible way North Kai waves off Old Kai’s warning that there is yet another fighter there with ill intent, and it’s the same fighter who beat Vegito, Buu, and Gast, is if he has advanced dementia.

Also wtf does Gast think watching him will do? He beat you badly, bum. Go home and try reverse mitosis so you ain’t so lonely

Also Old Kai probably should’ve brought this up earlier. Perhaps, days ago? Idfk Im not a god.

In all likelihood, Gast could've just taken that without flinching. Instead he decided to be dramatic and fall over lol

What was Goku supposed to answer in order to make the Old Kaioshin happy?
"Hey you must win but you have no hopes and I cannot power you up"
"I'll do my very best!"
"You're so stupid"
What was the Old Kaio hoping to hear?!

this is videl vs spopovich part2 if you ask me. always found stupid that everyone was so angry at spopovich for hurting videl the way he did, videl herself attacked him in a way that had he been normal, would have killed him when she turned his neck 180º

you are playing in a tournament that involves hittin and being hit by the person in front of you, you have the luxury of being able to actually being able to say "i give up" at any point and that spares you all the suffering, yet you dont do it because you are stupid, and somehow is the opponents fault if you get hurt.

pan was way smarter later, when he fight kakarot she achieves ssj1, but she still knows that her ssj1 is not enough to beat kakarot's, so she gives up and lives, is not that hard to do honestly.

Herp Derp was saying: Oooooooh! A frisbee, Vegeta!
Nappa, no! It's a trick!

I know it’s not the official version, but I really don’t see Goku acting like that. Yeah, he wouldn’t freak out like Vegeta or take the loss personally, but Goku’s still super proud and crazy competitive. I just can’t imagine him giving up without giving it his all.

IDK how anyone there could think XXI seems like a good guy after he tried to EAT GAST, even after he had already given up. Oh, right Gast just didn't tell anyone that happened...for some reason.

Also, while Goku would 100% be OK with losing, it still is important for him to try his hardest to win (Which is why I am glad this isn't the real page lol)

I need to see Raditz in the Yamcha pose, but at the same time, it feels wrong for Yamcha to get a dub at all these days...

Good idea, Vegeta. Thay way a surge of power can take you out.

maybe is because i work with computers, but i really dont like the "i hack things easy" comment from that guy that works with gast.

for starters, gero doesnt even have a need to have those hackable, neither did the drones, even if he does, computing between worlds should be totally different, and even in the same world, specially when doing something as new as gero was doing. you cant just type very fast in a keyboard and enter any system, is not how it works, no matter how good you are.

is specially stupid when bulma couldnt do it in years.

would have been much better if bulma was able to do it after they present her with one of the androids at the start, that kriling and gast was able to deactivate or destroy in my opinion. the horn guy shouldnt even be in the story, is taking screen time from bulma and disrespecting gero and he bring nothing interesting other than that

DrewSaga was saying: I get some readers have been too extreme in their critiques and they repeat themselves like a broken record but this isn't exactly the right way to respond to that.

That said, what a crazy fusion name!
I think that shows that the one who is hurt about mean comments it’s him, this page it’s kinda sad really

RetroOVER9000 was saying: With this one it's not that readers are complaining all the time, it's just you made a bad story. It happens. Not every DB story is good. Broly DBM is just garbage. You want to see Broly done right? Go watch Ultra Vegito. THAT is how you write Broly. Not this ever growing invincible "oh no his power goes higher higher higher nonsense.
Bro Ultra Vegito is even worse LMFAO this is 10x better then that

Decends was saying: Kyan Zennaro was saying: I don't know why, but Gero going from the first panel to the second panel is just so funny to me

Seems like it would make a good meme template

Shabby was saying: iron leaf was saying: This explains why Gohan is constantly incognito, even in the Resistance base. Gero was convinced that he had killed Gohan. And the Resistance wanted the element of surprise with an SSJ1 Gohan on their side at all costs.

Nobody has really questioned that, only why lie to Gast. Gast is the ultimate good guy.



I just couldn't resist. lol

I didn't mean in relation to Gast either. Even without Gast's presence, you don't see Gohan in the base except in the Captain Chicken costume. There must be more to it than just hiding something from Gast and Thorn.

King Kindred was saying: Gohan looks sick. I'm glad he's alive, but I was wishing he was with Gero.

I don't understand why the humans would lie to Gast about Gohan being alive.
Bc Goheezy was the only threat to Gero’s power and the only chance the humans had at survival. If Gero knew Gohan was alive, the humans would have been relentlessly targeted by Gero. Instead, Gero focused on expanding its empire with ease of mind

I went back and re-read the end of the Goku/Vegeta fight. Bra seems more impressed with SSJ0 or SSJ Normal or whatever it is called than this suggested. Vegetto has a thought about still being "infinitely stronger", but it sounds a lot like arrogance more than a reasonable assessment. Regardless, we all want SSJ3 Vegetto v SSJ0 Gogeta so fingers crossed! Maybe we can get a Gast v XXI rematch with Zen Uub in the mix.

vnass412 was saying: Wow,so they weren't even training together? That's pretty poor strategy.

Only within the last year. They trained for as much as they could together but realized they still had to live their own lives.

Socks is a cool name for Yamcha and Bulma's kid to differentiate him from Trunks.

Gohan would never manage to unlock SSJ by himself. It's probably Vegeta.

But why is Zalama chilling in some Earth cave?

Personally, I think Salagir disowning Broly would be funnier.

DrewSaga was saying: It sucks that Bardock claims he saw the "Error of his Ways" yet when he got an offer to "pick on the weak, he took it."
Freaking liar.

Peaking on the weak is not an error. This is the way!

By error, he meant how inefficient they were with Sayian barbaric approach. At the end, he probably was not that different from Frost Demons.

DrewSaga was saying: It sucks that Bardock claims he saw the "Error of his Ways" yet when he got an offer to "pick on the weak, he took it."

Freaking liar.
DBM Bardock only cares about Saiyans, which makes him compassionate by Saiyan standards but he's still fine with killing everyone else.

DrewSaga was saying: Gogetto was saying: I hole they spent those 10 years in the time chamber. They're gonna need it. I'm hoping we get an epic yamcha v Vegeta fight. Also I wonder if yamcha and bulma have a kid in this timeline

Honestly if the humans got their 48 Hours (2 Years inside the HTC) of training in the HTC then surely they'd be well above the Saiyans. Even Oozaru Vegeta wouldn't top that (or at least unlikely that he would).
lol no. People forget how ridiculous DBZ was...
"Oozaru Vegeta" should clock around 180k PL.
The humans could have trained themselves to a hundred times their end-of-dragonball power and they'd still fall against Nappa's Oozaru form let alone Vegeta's!

Diminishing results is a thing and important to keep in mind when trying to estimate how strong the humans would be training with Kami.

I doubt they used the time chamber, the humans never did in the main time line because it would have killed them. People forget how dangerous that thing is.

I hole they spent those 10 years in the time chamber. They're gonna need it. I'm hoping we get an epic yamcha v Vegeta fight. Also I wonder if yamcha and bulma have a kid in this timeline

SSGSSJ4VEGITO was saying: I think some people are being a bit harsh about the whole Thorn being smarter than Bulma. Yes he may be better with thus but think about it he loved on a world with vast knowledge and they are obviously more technologically advanced. But if that info was/is given to Bulma she could learn it and probably end up being smarter than Thorn. She's limited to earths tech and resources especially in the world she lives in

Yeah, people are acting like Thorn casually recreated Bulma's time machine and made fun of her for thinking it was ever an impressive achievement, or something. Characters other than our established protagonists are allowed to be good at things without it being a big attack on the source material, especially when they come from a civilisation hundreds of years beyond Earth that is literally dedicated to the accumulation of knowledge. As you say, neither Bulma or Gero have had the same opportunities as Thorn.

pip25 was saying: Agreed with iron leaf. Pan remote controlling #28 is great, and I also like Thorn as a character, but him out-tech-geniusing Bulma is not what I'd call a good plot idea. Surely both characters can have their own niche without overshadowing one another.

It's even worse, Thorn is likely better than Gero at this point if hacking his systems is easier than trivial school exams. This is some advanced Gary Stu level, this guy might just be worse than Bra and Buu put together.

Fatman was saying: It makes plenty of sense for Thorn to be this good. I mean like a thorn in the side, a constant pain for everyone. He comes from a civilization that gathers knowledge from nearly everyone. He's more capable in known theories and tech than in innovation and creation which are Bulma's domain. He also wasn't on Earth long enough to properly learn their languages and styles, so he would have to have been able to find familiarity in what's there and take advantage of known vulnerabilities and weaknesses of the system types. It makes sense.

Imagine being well versed in cybersecurity today, but going back in time 30 years. You'll know a lot of advanced concepts and things that can help beat folk in the past, but you're not necessarily capable of truly innovating during their time beyond what you already learned.

The fact that it doesn't outright and obviously create plotholes (or does it?) doesn't make it a good choice. The writers didn't HAVE to make him demonstrate his 99 INT 99 WIS stats by schooling Bulma and Gero like 4 times. This is a deliberate choice, and it makes him a Gary Stu. Or, if you don't like these kinds of buzzwords, it makes him incredibly annoying.

Also, your cybersecurity analogy doesn't work that well. You might be able to teach people some advanced cybersecurity concepts if you went back 30 years ago... How about if you went back 30 years ago but in an alien world with completely different tech?

Man, I'm glad Thorn can do politics, tech, everything (except not sound like an asshole). We almost got a potential Bulma moment by showing her efforts finally pay off as she hacks the enemy androids, facing off against Gero, not as advanced but incredibly driven and motivated for her friends! That sounds scary, I'm glad she got put in her place again instead.

Shabby was saying: FishNChips was saying: 4 on 4.
Goodluck, brave heroes! You will be remembered, because let's face it, you've got as much chance as a fly in a tornado

So, Tien was powerful enough to affect Semi perfect Cell. They were all powerful enough to not get one shot by cell Jrs.

Sure, they didn't train with King Kai, and Krillin didn't get his potential unlocked, but it's called potential for a reason.

They're nowhere near as powerful as their DBZ counters, but they could be well above 10k.

Now, Vegeta and crew should also be.

Also, they're all bones if the androids show up, hahaha.

Tien was "powerful enough" to push Semi-perfect Cell.
And they were all "powerful enough" to be literal Cell Jr amusement.

Well they aren’t freaked out by sensing the saiyans power levels so that’s good to account for
This is also an extreme situation since none of them have Kaio Ken to boost their power if the saiyans use oozaru it’s pretty much over.

DrewSaga was saying: Problem is how Trunks deals with an immortal.


Easy. Just make him watch the new snowhite. Will off himself.


Shabby was saying: RIP, New Trunks

Lol, more like "RIP new yamcha"

Let's put it this way. At the start of DBZ Vegeta had the power to destroy Earth with his Galick Gun. That is destroying one whole planet. Do you think Androids would be harmed by that Galick Gun from start of DBZ Vegeta???

From a different point, do you see a nuke destroying a planet?? If you sent a missile to Earth's moon with a nuke, do you think the moon is gone???

zero logic was saying: Yall think Frieza saga Frieza would die to a nuclear bomb???
Maybe. We have no proof one way or another, and nukes are very much a different kind of beast compared to any other type of weapon.

Yall think Frieza saga Frieza would die to a nuclear bomb???

Why did Old Kai even think he could do the ritual right in front of an opponent?

Super Gojita 3 was saying: DrewSaga was saying: Problem is how Trunks deals with an immortal.

I don't know if this mirrors the anime 100%, but in addition to ssj rage shown here, the anime had trunks use the mafuuba.

if he gets a seal from roshi, or somewhere, he can seal zamasu like he did before, but better.
It does mirror the anime 100%, actually, so yes, Trunks knows the Mafuba. But right now Goku Black is the only one present. The situation seems to indicate Future Zamasu hasn't revealed himself yet.

DrewSaga was saying: hetap was saying: So, I think this confirms that the lie Thorn was talking about was that Gero did not kill Gohan. He turned him into an android. Before people thought the lie was that they were able to kill a cyborg, but Krillin confirms here that he did indeed kill one (somehow lol, guessing Kienzan).

Maybe the Cyborgs aren't as powerful as the ones we are familiar with in DBZ. After all, do you even need SSJ-level Cyborgs to deal with humans? Gero likely mass produced weaker Androids to help him better control the world.

Fair point, but I doubt they would be any weaker than 19 was, but it certainly is possible.

So, I think this confirms that the lie Thorn was talking about was that Gero did not kill Gohan. He turned him into an android. Before people thought the lie was that they were able to kill a cyborg, but Krillin confirms here that he did indeed kill one (somehow lol, guessing Kienzan).

SpanishSebas was saying: Females was saying: I am certain they have no chance of winning even with their training. The only one they could take out would be Raditz and that's if they had one on one with him since they held their own against the Saibemen who were around Raditz power level.

If after a year of training they surpassed Raditz, after 10 years they should be able to beat Nappa.

After 10 years they are able to beat imperfect cell

Yes, let's leave the time capsule out in the open. Obviously nothing bad could ever happen to it...

And remember, this version of Broly is much weaker than SS1 Vegito. I guess Piccolo was right about Vegito being a threat to the entire Mulitverse in that one vision Bardock had.

How did Izy exactly save the day? It was that machine from U1 that shows up every 10 minutes that sent Buu back. Unless she engineered the gadget herself, it's not exactly her win.

DrewSaga was saying: Cell sure as shit don't deserve it. The dude played both sides for his benefit. Cell should really consider politics or business.


he used underhanded tactics, yes. But he was also aware there was no way he would be able to overthrow Babidi by himself. He needed Gohan to be outraged. He could have killed the piccolo's and the Helioites easily, probably several more. He kept it to just the Videls, and well.... his strategy did pay off, because Gohan immediately decided murder and violence was an acceptable conclusion. And that was before he even knew about Bra.

Cell would never allow himself to be ruled by a worm like Babidi. He was never on his side.

They call him the drink

I still can't believe they just glazed over the fact that XXI continued to attack Gast after he gave up and that Gast just didn't tell anyone how threatening XXI is to them all. Like it just makes no sense. It's almost as bad as the post majin Bra chapter (aka the worst chapter in DBM).

Why Frieza looking so feminine

Is Elder Kai boosting up Raditz against the rules or something?

Oh, interesting. So he's more mad that he took an unnecessary risk? It's kinda sounding like eating Gast wasn't actually his plan from the start.

Looks like Goku is going to beat his record of winning tournament fights in one hit, like Mahissu, Android 17, and Frieza by winning against XXI in zero hits lol.

Poor Goku only got proper matches against Vegeta and Uub. People he can already fight every day because they're U18.

XXI is so hilarious. He’s cursing and storming out like a child throwing a trauma.

If Gast is still alive I feel like he's coming out of this totally SHELL-SHOCKED & empty/dead eyes, staring off into nothingness. There might be no intel to pass off to Goku

And here we have it, hopefully the "XXI has done nothing wrong yet so he doesn't deserve to get killed like I'K'L and Old Kai say" crew are happy now. That's why you take care of the bad guy before he does what they're warning you he WILL do.

I really hope the Vargas do hear Gast forfeiting so XXI gets disqualified for cheating, he deserves that much.

Oh man, didn't expect to see Gast lose this badly.

But the question still remains. If XII could do this from the start, why didn't he? Why not "feast" on Vegetto? What's with the old man puppet ruse? What about that other character who gives him answers (which I still assume is some kind of Shenron)?

So many questions.

Gast fought arguably scarier opponents, why is he so scared here? did dying the first time get to him mentally? He's acting very out of character if you ask me.
Also i just want to note something while i'm here: The next fight will be Goku vs Xxi but i think it's pretty obvious that xxi will "win" the tournament because it is naratively more interesting. The only way that Goku does win is if Xxi is a humoungus red herring and the real villain is vegitto all along, although i'm not too sure what I'K'L or Uub's roles will be if that were the case.

ZenBuu was saying: Gogetto was saying: So remember when Zen Buu immobilized Gast? Why can't XXI do the same thing? Does he maybe know that it won't work a second time on Gast? I just think that if Zen Buu could pull it off XXI should be able to also. Plus XXI prob asked his eternal dragons for a way to beat gast (or w.e those things are that gave him the button to shut off 18).

When XXI said at the beginning of the match that he had no way of beating Gast automatically, he didn't necessarily mean he didn't have a way of beating him ultimately. I just find it hard to believe the true villain of this story loses before he fights the main protag. Gast and XXI v Goku would give us the best of both worlds for a final match
On page 2110, XXI's dragon says that he can't give him those techniques that Buu used to kill Gast, because "they are way beyond his abilities."

O snap you're right. Love the depth of dbms story! It's just had to believe zen buu would be more advanced that xxi in any technique since I assume both of them absorbed the bulk of their universes in their own ways. Makes me wonder if xxi has a glaring weakness just like his opponents.

Vegettos hubris, 18s off switch, buus incantation.... So is xxis weakness a vacume cleaner. I see a lot of dust being kicked up.. ok I'll stop. That was a terrible joke lol



siksteen was saying: Well, Gast here being OP as usual. He is not wrong and many commenters here figured that out too.
But, unfortunately, I expect XII will absorb that blast.

I wonder why XII can't just teleport Gast to another dimension like he did with Vegetto. Seems to be the silver bullet, much like Bra teleporting her opponents into deep space.



Gogetto was saying: I just find it hard to believe the true villain of this story loses before he fights the main protag. Gast and XXI v Goku would give us the best of both worlds for a final match
I mean I agree with that statement but I doubt that that fight is the "last boss" end-of-the-story fight. Is Goku even the main protagonist here anyway? Is XII the "true villain"?


Goku is always the main character!!! I see your point though. I think Vegetto will be a sub plot before the finals when he gets pissed about gast losing to what he believes is cheating via magic (he's made it clear he doesn't like magic hax even though he was kinda born of one lol).

I do agree that xxi could lose and be a menace to the tournament after but I find it unlikely. The finals seems like a great place to flesh him out