DBM doesn't need to have a point. We do things for free and we do what we want.

Ugh, this feels like a joke from the early 2000's or something.

Salagir was saying: WukongTheMighty was saying: Jesus Christ. This is just getting silly at this point.Kururun was saying: It's not even that, it's trying to establish some hard rules about the Dragon Ball universe, at the expanse of the characters. supersaiyan2kakarot was saying: Seems a little hypocritical for baba to say that, when she used Grandpa Gohan(who was dead) to fight for her in her tournament back in dragon ball.
Guys, you have to understand what i'm working with, here. "Future" timeline is a big plothole for a shonen manga. In the "present" timeline, a little training make half of the cast stronger by far than the cyborgs. I can't do much about that, except play the "hope" storyline.
Also indeed, the heroes could go to Namek, teleport from heaven to earth with or without permission (maybe?), spend 24h, teach them fusion, so many very simple ways to beat the cyborgs! Well, we're trying to cover this one at least.

Also, you can't compare Baba making little tournaments and implicating yourself in the destiny of a whole planet.

Osha was saying: Such weird reasoning in a multiverse where Bojack happened in a bunch of places, honestly.
For all I know, Bojack did less crimes than the Cyborgs.

Grash was saying: 1. Gohan did not give up after losing goku to raditz
2. Gohan did not give up after watching all the namekiens die
3. Gohan ALMOST gave up after losing goku to cell but still pulled through
4. Gohan DID NOT give up against super boo after all his friends and the whole earth got eaten
1. Goku was coming back from the DBs, it was obvious and stated.
2. Give up on what? The dragon balls were still here.
3. Dragon balls are there.
4. Easy access to dragon balls.
Anyway, you can't compare (and that's true for the 3 lasts points) being in the middle of a situation and being stranded alone for years on a world where genocide occurs daily.

Your nickel was saying: You'd think Yemma would make an exception here like in the Buu arc, since he didn't want to deal with billions of humans getting killed
I like this one. Cyborgs work "slowly" and i guess it doesn't change much in the universal number of deaths.

saber16 was saying: Like when King Kai specifically trained a dead Goku in order to save Earth from the Saiyans? Or when a dead Piccolo gave King Kai the idea to have him brought back to bring back Kami and give them more wishes? Or when King Kai trained Tien and the others so they would be stronger to protect Earth? Or all the times the heroes wished for those killed to be brought back to life?
As you state, all these have impact when said people are alive again.
If Dragon Balls were used in "future" timeline, or after Bojack special, heroes would have been permitted to crush cyborgs and Bojack with their new heaven-acquired powers.

ap2007 was saying: The boy has no reason to live , no disrespect to roshi, trunks ,bulma and whoever else ...
This Gohan isn't close yet to Bulma and Trunks at this point. This isn't stated here indeed, but he didn't see them in years. He is truly alone with an old man.
Chichi also is dead. Not said too, it seemed obvious to me, but maybe i was wrong.

The Mighty Hyena was saying: Some of these sidestories have no place other than to waste our collective time. I am sorry to the artist
No you're not. You're pooping on work done by non-paid amateurs on their free time given to you for free.
Guys, you should re-read yourself twice when you post, because nobody on this site deserve any of these angry comments.
So, please disagree and criticize with less contempt. You are also free to not read if what we do is so lame.

The Mighty Hyena was saying: a decent U9 special NOT SET UP IN DRAGON BALL ERA, or maybe a follow up to the EXCELLENT U13 or U7 Gast?
U9: sorry, we'll do them in order, so you'll have some more DB-era. Being drawn now.
U13: on a break, Ouv helps on other things, but not forgotten, far from it.
U7: very advanced, long, and with a first part ready to be released. When? Don't know yet.

So Gohan is super edgy and depressed because no dragon balls.
But Gohan should know there are Dragon Balls here though? Is he stupid or something? Does "Planet N-" mean something different in his head? Did he hit his head recently? He went to Namek. He knows it exists. He knows that Bulma could make a spaceship. What's the issue?
See, you're making more problems than you're solving.

Yeah I don't really get it either, Dragon Ball has always been a series where power actually does turmp everything

I think it as a brilliant idea, never used before.

This is getting... sighs. Just end this. The art was great but the story boarding... dissapointing fan-service.
Saligir you dropped the ball this fight, imo (though I do understand what it was gunning for here).

No new technigues... no new moves. Just a new form, with punch, kicks and generic blasts.

Lame.

Here's what I would have done. I would have given Vegeta a lot of new techniques, that he learned from... Old kai. Yeah... in Univerise 18... Vegeta in his periodic sabatical to space to train and get away from everyone... he runs into the supreme kais... and decided to learn from them. Including doing space cop errands like Universe 16 Vegito does.

Doing this... Vegeta is able to fully master ssj2. Becomes pound for pound... stronger then Goku (like he was in DBS ROF). And is even able to unlock ssj3... but never really does anything with the form because of his personal pride of refusing to follow after Kakarot (think DBS with Vegeta never wanting to use I.T even after doing it once from the Yadrats).

He showcases his evolution as a fighter in this fight, and ends up defeating Goku while barley using ssj3 until the very end. Just a mastered ssj2, battle smarts and techniques.

Then Goku whips out this form, and molly whoops Vegeta quickly. Fight over.

I always wondered what would happen if you took the Potara earrings off as a fused character. Surely these earrings are not indestructable.

Oh God! That's haram, Salagir!



There! Much better! xD Made by Just Saiyan on DBM Discord.

Salagir was saying: Add to that, that DBM is mainly for people who followed DB 30 years ago, it's not meant to be compatible with 10-years-olds like DB Super is. In my opinion, to see the level of gore and violence we have in DBM, you have to be old enough, and way more old than the required age to see even full frontal nudity in a non-porn drawing.
Then I want the child violence back!!! xD

Moth was saying: Albatross was saying: Given that Torankusu is U12 and Majin Buu is U11, he's probably reacting to Babadi/Buu, whom we know Gohan defeated, and probably told Torankusu about.

What exactly possesses you to use the romanization of a japanese loanword over the English one they integrated into Japanese to begin with?

Might as well take Edward and spell it Edowado. Doesn't matter but it's weird.

Literally, because of that reason. I also just think it's funny.

Given that Torankusu is U12 and Majin Buu is U11, he's probably reacting to Babadi/Buu, whom we know Gohan defeated, and probably told Torankusu about.

Kalenz was saying: Well, this won't do anything except tire Vegetto out.
Buu can regenerate from a single cell and Vegetto is leaving lots of parts around.

He ain't leaving sh!t. Unlike you.

Why are we showcasing a 16 year old drinking beer and getting drunk?

I need an adult...

Matrixkid was saying: "Next time, on Dragon Ball Multiverse!"

Damn I really enjoyed that chapter, didn't mind one bit that it was longer than any other chapters. But more than that, poor Earth, and poor Raditz. The poor monkey's gonna get scalded at big time when he gets home.

Assuming that it's canon (Without error) that Raditz still invaded Earth with the kids, he probably survived but really wounded and made his way back to Vegeta where he'd tell Bardock about what happened. From here, 2 things could happen, either:

1. A Saiyan army invades within the next few years, and there's a huge between King Piccolo and the invading Saiyan's. They probably use tactics like artificial moons and such, but the Namekian's still able to repel the forces with difficulty. Raichi takes advantage of the failed invasion, collecting numerous Saiyan souls, and uses them to make an invasion of his own on Vegeta against Vegeta. If that's the case, hopefully it gets drawn.

2. Raichi eradicates the Saiyans before they have the chance to attack Earth. Meaning no Raditz/Nappa/Vegeta invasion since they're dead, no Frieza/family because they were killed by Broccoli, no Androids because Gero was probably among the people killed in the initial invasion, but what about Babidi?

The Buu egg should still be somewhere on Earth - Maybe King Piccolo even found it and claimed it as a treasure. Assuming that Babidi didn't somehow die by the Saiyans, he and his men (Possibly some mind controlled Saiyans?) would end up finding Buu's egg, and have an invasion of their own on Earth. The same song and dance would still likely happen, with KP wanting to kill the wizard before he and his cronies did any real damage. Obviously, KP wouldn't get mind controlled, or if he did he ended up rejecting it. So the wizard would use Pui Pui, Yakon, and possibly any mind controlled Saiyans to weaken and restrain the Namekian. He could certainly kill Pui Pui and Yakon, but I have doubts he could fell Dabura. Guess that's yet to be seen.
There needs to be at least some mini-comic of Badid in these "evil universes". Because it dosen't make sense how these evil, espcially weak, evil universes survived despite babdid existing in them and very cabable of enslaving them.

Moth was saying: Aegeus was saying: Why are people so anal about him saying "a thousand times stronger"? Why actually care if it's a fan comic and power scaling has never been consistent, even in Dragon Ball? 1k is a huge multiplier, I doubt he even knows exactly what his power level was before, he just knows that he's exponentially stronger, and 1k is a perfectly fine number.

Dragonball fans have this inexplicable autism it seems. Pretty clear "thousand times stronger" is just an expression.


Tulot_Trouble was saying: Moth was saying: Dragonball fans have this inexplicable autism it seems. Pretty clear "thousand times stronger" is just an expression.

I blame super saiyan forms ever getting official multipliers for the reason as to why.
God am I glad that I am not like you 2 at all. You come in, read last 2 posts and type this BS...
The whole debate started not because of the 1000x stronger expression, but because ppl started saying BS like "Yes, 1000x is an understatement, cause he'D be just as strong as Nail if not slightly stronger" or "Nameless Namek has 3000 powelevel max" both of which are so unbelievably wrong, yet me and all the other dudes still argumented relatively respectfully...
Then you come in read 1/20 post and go like "hahha look at these aholes, being this and that over details"
Not to mention this "I blame super saiyan forms ever getting official multipliers for the reason as to why." ... Very funny, cause you sound EXACTLY like someone who would be permanently crying and ranting and sending letter to Japan to Tori, to give us the official multipliers, if we didn't have any xD

Ammar was saying: Now I'm interested to see all the pages that were changed.
You just did.

Why are people so anal about him saying "a thousand times stronger"? Why actually care if it's a fan comic and power scaling has never been consistent, even in Dragon Ball? 1k is a huge multiplier, I doubt he even knows exactly what his power level was before, he just knows that he's exponentially stronger, and 1k is a perfectly fine number.

I don't see the logic in this.

The piccolo I know.

Kami

Wouldn't have done this.

Or to be exact Akira toryiama manafa canon Daikin piccolo would have just let the silly humans rebuild there cilivizarions and let the explode within themselves.

Taking sight of there emmersement for himself.

Kami was known later way later after demon King piccolo for being benevolent(Damian king piccolo and Kami are one and the same still in canon Akira toryiama source material).

Before the whole burp* out the egg son and bought in a rebirth of daiman piccolo(son).Anyway off-topic.

All this fanfiction piccolo is doing is instant gratification.

Rimuru_Tempest was saying: Darius was saying: Tulot_Trouble was saying: newhinhin was saying: Shouldn't this King Picolo be strong enough to one hit all of them with ease?

Yes, but he's savoring their fear. He's the demon king after all.




Zeromus was saying: This is not our Raditz.We don't know if he can create artificial moon or not.We know that he will lose anyway. But if he transform we may got an actual fight.

It would not be an actual fight. This fusion should be at least nail's level at 42,000. A max power oozaru raditz would be 15,000, but he would not be at max power as making a power ball weakens the user.


Jubjub was saying: Hanky was saying: I do agree Oozaru Radditz would be more of a challenge for Piccolo, but in the same way that 2nd Form Freeza would be more of a challenge for Trunks than 1st Form Freeza. It's still a wash to the point of not being worth showing.

Someone finally gets it. I really don't understand why people expect raditz to stand even the tiniest bit of a chance, oozaru or not. Saiyan bias I guess.


Well shouldn't this Piccolo be stronger then freeza right now? nail stated if he fused with kami he could have handled freeza on his own without any problems.

Vash was saying: Kakata was saying: Silly Saiyans, there's nowhere to run, the best you could do is to go Kamikaze and destroy Earth with a KI Blast or something and hope that Piccolo dies in the process or something.

These low level Saiyans can’t destroy the earth even if they want to. The first confirmed planet-busting power level was Vegeta’s 18k.
Raditiz and the kids are way too low level

yeah im going to say bs on that one. roshi is 180 if memory serves and he was able to kill our moon. that is roughly 1/3 of the diameter of our planet. it doesn't take 18k to kill the earth. it wouldn't take nearly as much power.
1/4 actually, but same difference, pretty much. Yeah, Goku in the Piccolo Junior Saga could've destroyed the planet, or at least shaved off most of it. they've been planet busters, for a while.
Even if you're assuming the DB earth and moon have the same properties as in real life (not really supported), while the earth's diameter is only 4x as large as the moon's, its mass is 81 times as large. If you assume it takes a Pl 81 times as high to destroy something with 81 times as much mass, you'd need a PL somewhere between Nappa's and Vegeta's to destroy the earth.

ChrisOfChaos was saying: To the people upset because Kami gave in to Piccolo so quickly; remember that the Saiyans have been rampaging for weeks at this point, and pretty much every other option has been exhausted. It's an emergency situation and Kami understands that this is the Earth's only hope of survival.

Since it has been weeks, it won't matter if he takes a few extra days to train in the time chamber to get stronger himself. If Piccolo in canon was able to go from 420 to around 2000 in just one year, no reason why a young Kami couldn't. All it takes is one day in the time chamber to come out and toying with Raditz.

The artist is tracing Piccolo from OG Dragonball manga in these panels way too noticeably. The art shift is too obvious.

Be consistent in your own art. This is just lame.

A second ago he was shocked and confused that dkp wasn't automatically absorbed back into himself with the wish. But now he's taken precautions.

In all seriousness, why do they look different?they should be literally the same - in terms of looks. It's not even the case of twins, they are literally the same being.
Why does Daimao's head want to constantly burst?

Once again... the pacing has just been incredible. Good job DBM for this saga.



Chrispower110 was saying: We know king piccolo becomes the dominant one in the fusion since he is in the tournament.

The saiyans are screwed.
Raddizts stays alive, however.



Zefarg was saying: Chrispower110 was saying: We know king piccolo becomes the dominant one in the fusion since he is in the tournament.

The saiyans are screwed.
Nah, he doesn't become dominant. I am pretty sure that's not how the fusion works...
It seems that he will agree to do the fusion, but under the condition of him being the one to assimilate Kami, not the other way around. Kami will agree out of desperation, since he can at least try to change him from the inside
You and him bascially said the same thing. You just played semantics.



Moth was saying: If this is King Piccolo, why is he wearing the cloak and turban that Ma Junior wore?
He has this outfit in the cover chapter.



Stevethebarbarian was saying: Even if Kami is stronger than King Piccolo (he is, by a LOT,) it’s still obvious that Piccolo has the leverage here and can easily “win.” Fusion is purely consensual, it’s impossible to forcibly fuse someone with you. Kami actually cares about Earth, but Piccolo doesn’t- if Piccolo just refuses to fuse, then there’s nothing Kami can do to force, threaten, coerce, or convince him to. Piccolo can just say “i don’t care about these people, you do, so this fusion isn’t going to happen until you allow me to be the base for it.”
Correct. Well said. That's exactly whats going to happen, I believe.



D2K4 was saying: I'm curious what power level a fused Kami and King Piccolo are going to round out at? Surely not the power that Piccolo fought Cell with as that was in part due to Piccolo's high power level right?
My guess is sayain saga vegeta level. I am just going to assume kami power level right now is 1K. Piccolo at best should be around 250. Fuse those to gether and a power level of 16k-18k Seems reasonable.

Mr Quill was saying: Wow.....I did not expect that.

Animedingo was saying: Ok counter idea

Make Earth invisible to anyone who wishes it harm

Double WoW. Someone actually came up with an excellent idea, that had a lot of common sense put into it. Finally. This is a great day for DBM



Moth was saying: Akira Toriyama was saying: DrewSaga was saying: Eddie was saying: or he could have wished what gas or granolah wished in DBS... be the stronger than the strongest in the universe.... no one would have messed with Kami.

Except that wish cannot be granted. This is yet another DBS retcon.

except it can. once the manga made it canon it became official. Shenron can grant immortality after all

Iirc those weren't Earth Dragonballs or Porunga so even if it weren't a retcon, it's a moot point.

Very moot



Akira Toriyama was saying: DrewSaga was saying: Eddie was saying: or he could have wished what gas or granolah wished in DBS... be the stronger than the strongest in the universe.... no one would have messed with Kami.

Except that wish cannot be granted. This is yet another DBS retcon.

except it can. once the manga made it canon it became official. Shenron can grant immortality after all

That's not how it works, first of all, Immortality is a poor comparison, Immortality just means eternal life, and according to DB as a franchise, there are many ways to attain that including Shenron.

Immortality ~= Strongest in the Universe, the problem with that is, that Shenron (or other Dragons) can only grant certain things depending on their power limit. It had always been that the Dragon was tied to it's creator, so what they could do was based on the Creator's power.

I don't mean Powerlevel for the record, that wouldn't make sense, I think it's a power scaling of its own, Magic Power or something cause it would make way more sense. Shenron for example at this point in time, is tied to Kami, going the realistic route, Kami's powerlevel is somewhere between 200 - 400. If Shenron's powers were tied to that power, it wouldn't make a lot of sense, because that doesn't really sound powerful enough to do such wishes we've heard of, including KakarotU13's immortality(which I dunno when exactly he attained it, but Kami was most likely the same power and it was before he was dead), and his Immortality is a pretty powerful immortality with its weaknesses.

So it'd be based off their Magic Power and how strong it is. Porunga had less limits, hence the unlimited reviving capability, but at the downside of "One person at a time", even though it had that
small downside, I think the unlimited reviving capability still outweighs the downside, because Shenron could revive a multitude of people at once, like we're talking nearly billions, but at the downside of a one time revival.

DBS, it doesn't care about limits, it retcons, and saying "Retcon isn't a bad thing" is true to some extent. The problem with DBS is that it is constantly contradicting itself, constantly retconning it, bringing every good thing about Dragon Ball down to its barebone most basic part of itself, until it's ripped to shreds. They throw all logic out to the sun, and could care less. Using DBS as an example is very poor, and not thought out at all.

You can't sit there and suddenly change something, especially something major just because you want to. It doesn't matter what the "manga says", that literally doesn't matter at all. If you're gonna retcon something, you need A DAMN good reason + a damn good save, otherwise it's just an excuse for lazy ass writing.

Shenron cannot grant that wish, Porunga can't, nor can this new Dragon. Period. There is no logical explanation behind it, and suddenly coming up and just saying "But this Namekian is op" or some shit like that, is not an excuse for it either.

I don't know if this was a wish not able to be fulfilled in db pre dbs.

the only thing I ever heard of this was in db kai when bulma said you can't just wish to be stronger in a preview for a next episode. was this ever hinted at in the manga?

like whats stopping someone from asking for old kais ritual from shenron, aside from not knowing that the old kai exists and yadda yadda.

like if I summon shenron and ask for old kais ritual he got from the witch, could he do it? or would he say no, but summon a proxy mini dragon to perform the ritual and make me wait the 3 days or whatever it is and do the ritual in full?

the dragons have limits, but I don't see this as one of them.

this seems like the sort of thing that was never brought up we just assumed to be the case, and it was never tested.

DrewSaga was saying: Eddie was saying: or he could have wished what gas or granolah wished in DBS... be the stronger than the strongest in the universe.... no one would have messed with Kami.

Except that wish cannot be granted. This is yet another DBS retcon.

except it can. once the manga made it canon it became official. Shenron can grant immortality after all

Yet another instance where the wisher could’ve just wished the bad guys to be dead :p

But then we wouldn’t have plot so xD

Moth was saying: J.I.L was saying: BeGabi was saying: Idk how strong is the nameless namekian because Guru said that it could've beat Vegeta and Nappa when they came to earth.
To fuse just for Raditz seems like overkill.
What is this new information you present to us, now? Is it true?

Tulot_Trouble was saying: عمار was saying: Zefarg was saying: Yes and no tho. You can't really count Kami + Piccolo as a normal Namekian fusion, since they are merely becoming the Nameless Namekian once again. No lucky involved in it, at least from their side. Raditz and the crew on the other hand... :D
Isn't the Nameless Namekian consider to be so strong though? I believe even Guru was shocked to hear that he was killed by a saiyan, and thought the saiyan that killed him was a super saiyan.

At the very least the nameless namekian should be able to slap nail silly who sits at a very respectable (at the time) power level of 42,000. Nail is far above literally every base form saiyan on vegeta except that traveling brocoli guy.

In my opinion it wouldn't be a stretch to say they're about the same as first form frieza's 500ish thousand.

Felbuod was saying: "That's right Mr. Popo. Call Spike the Devil Man"

Unironically yes.
That seems stupid. The nameless namekian is just kami before he expelled out DKP from his body. I'd put this fused full power warrior at no stronger then Nappa. So if piccolo fuses with Kami, inluding getting his youth back. His power-level at max I believe should be around sayain saga vegeta level. And by the time of DBM tounnament, he's as powerful as android saga fused piccolo because of training through the decades.

Guru believes only a Super Saiyan could have killed Kami pre-DPK expulsion, so you'd have to take it up with Toriyama and his ridiculous power creep.
Guru was mentioning the only rendition of a Saiyan that he thought would have been strong enough to kill the nameless Namekian. He didn't think any normal Saiyans could do it, so he defaulted to wondering if it was a Super Saiyan, the only known alternative if it was a Saiyan that did it.

All that means is that the nameless Namekian should be stronger than Saiyan saga Vegeta, not that he's implied to be in the same ballpark as an SSJ. He could have been no stronger than Nail was and Guru's comment would have been the same.

BeGabi was saying: Idk how strong is the nameless namekian because Guru said that it could've beat Vegeta and Nappa when they came to earth.
To fuse just for Raditz seems like overkill.
What is this new information you present to us, now? Is it true?

Tulot_Trouble was saying: عمار was saying: Zefarg was saying: Yes and no tho. You can't really count Kami + Piccolo as a normal Namekian fusion, since they are merely becoming the Nameless Namekian once again. No lucky involved in it, at least from their side. Raditz and the crew on the other hand... :D
Isn't the Nameless Namekian consider to be so strong though? I believe even Guru was shocked to hear that he was killed by a saiyan, and thought the saiyan that killed him was a super saiyan.

At the very least the nameless namekian should be able to slap nail silly who sits at a very respectable (at the time) power level of 42,000. Nail is far above literally every base form saiyan on vegeta except that traveling brocoli guy.

In my opinion it wouldn't be a stretch to say they're about the same as first form frieza's 500ish thousand.

Felbuod was saying: "That's right Mr. Popo. Call Spike the Devil Man"

Unironically yes.
That seems stupid. The nameless namekian is just kami before he expelled out DKP from his body. I'd put this fused full power warrior at no stronger then Nappa. So if piccolo fuses with Kami, inluding getting his youth back. His power-level at max I believe should be around sayain saga vegeta level. And by the time of DBM tounnament, he's as powerful as android saga fused piccolo because of training through the decades.

So? He'll still die. He ain't winning this

So the army is what scares Kami and makes him fuse Pikoro. If Raditz had just shut up.

Are we missing a page or are they out of order or something? The last page ended with Kami holding Kumpkin and now Kumpkin is checking on Cherito? With Raditz just observing and Kami is gone?

Ops, it looks like they skipped some pages: Kami was just attacking the boy, now this page makes no sense.

Either that, or being constantly surprised was in-fact her fighting style all along.

JDMManga was saying: So Kami freed Piccolo? Interesting...

Makes sense, this is the universe with super Namek King Piccolo, and our Piccolo stated Kami had to be willing to fuse for that to happen.

I have to wonder at what point this universe and the universe with cyborg Yamcha, hermit Krillin etc split however, since its stated at the beginning of this special that this happened the same in both universes.

PL's are actually serious business and often are misunderstood, they are bullshit to some extent but they also work to some extent. It creates a sense of scaling and when scaling is thrown out the window it becomes boring.

DoubleBoozed was saying: You should check Tao too. He doesn't seem dead.
Sorry, he is very dead.

Did Raditz seriously think that being dead could teach a lesson?

Thats probably it for Tao. Maybe the turtle boys have senzus. They could still save him if they are quick, force feeding him one, like Goku did to Gohan on Namek after he had his neck broken.

Out of all the power level things in Dragon Ball, that's where you draw the line?

Somehow I saw this coming. Raditz statement seems to imply that Tao is already dead, probably not surprising since Raditz was a lot stronger than Goku and Piccolo Jr who were each way above Tao. Honestly more surprising that Tao beat a Saiyan even if it was a low-class child Cherrio is still super strong. Raditz seems pretty unbeatable at this point and Roshi doing the mafuba is the only bet for beating Raditz, who is considered weak for an adult Saiyan. Man Earth really is beyond unlucky in U3. I was hoping Tao would last longer to make this more entertaining for the readers especially if he were to team up but we already know how U3 played out so...

Michelrpg was saying: Well, Tao was gloating about that first target going down too easily, and now Radditz gloats about him going down too easily. gotta love karma.


Regarding the fusion thing... yes, surely it was about Toriyama making it up as he went along. By his own admission he was terrible at math and we can assume since numbers dictate the power scaling, it also means he kind of forgot how strong/weak earlier and later characters were. But, going by the lore, Nail (who "fought" Freeza), told Piccolo that if he and Kami had returned as their original, they would have enough strength to take out Freeza. Of course, nail was talking about 1st form freeza, but still.

Piccolo and Kami being fused together, or King Piccolo and Kami fused, should at very least be able to take out Radditz without any problem. Now Vegeta and the others.. by lore, he "should" be able to, but it's questionable.


Regardless, I'm liking this story so far.

Are we forgetting that Vegeta is already a Super Saiyan in this universe though? This Nameless Namek would be weaker than SSJ Vegeta but stronger than all the other Saiyans (except maybe Bardock if he gets SSJ already by then). I honestly don't think Vegeta even goes to Earth and actually dies under Raichi's hands (who already has Ghost Broly).

One thing is for sure, the Saiyans had it far too well and karma is about to hit the whole race in U3 between King Piccolo beating any low to mid-class Saiyans and Raichi gets to beat the strongest ones (since he already has Ghost Broly). Actually, what's stopping Raichi from attacking them already if he has Ghost Broly?

UltraExtream was saying: And there goes Tao Pai Pai. No cyborg enhancements for you.

That's fine Raditz would have still beaten him about as easily.

Somehow I saw this coming. Raditz statement seems to imply that Tao is already dead, probably not surprising since Raditz was a lot stronger than Goku and Piccolo Jr who were each way above Tao. Honestly more surprising that Tao beat a Saiyan even if it was a low-class child Cherrio is still super strong. Raditz seems pretty unbeatable at this point and Roshi doing the mafuba is the only bet for beating Raditz, who is considered weak for an adult Saiyan. Man Earth really is beyond unlucky in U3. I was hoping Tao would last longer to make this more entertaining for the readers especially if he were to team up but we already know how U3 played out so...

Michelrpg was saying: Well, Tao was gloating about that first target going down too easily, and now Radditz gloats about him going down too easily. gotta love karma.


Regarding the fusion thing... yes, surely it was about Toriyama making it up as he went along. By his own admission he was terrible at math and we can assume since numbers dictate the power scaling, it also means he kind of forgot how strong/weak earlier and later characters were. But, going by the lore, Nail (who "fought" Freeza), told Piccolo that if he and Kami had returned as their original, they would have enough strength to take out Freeza. Of course, nail was talking about 1st form freeza, but still.

Piccolo and Kami being fused together, or King Piccolo and Kami fused, should at very least be able to take out Radditz without any problem. Now Vegeta and the others.. by lore, he "should" be able to, but it's questionable.


Regardless, I'm liking this story so far.

Are we forgetting that Vegeta is already a Super Saiyan in this universe though? This Nameless Namek would be weaker than SSJ Vegeta but stronger than all the other Saiyans (except maybe Bardock if he gets SSJ already by then). I honestly don't think Vegeta even goes to Earth and actually dies under Raichi's hands (who already has Ghost Broly).

One thing is for sure, the Saiyans had it far too well and karma is about to hit the whole race in U3 between King Piccolo beating any low to mid-class Saiyans and Raichi gets to beat the strongest ones (since he already has Ghost Broly). Actually, what's stopping Raichi from attacking them already if he has Ghost Broly?

UltraExtream was saying: And there goes Tao Pai Pai. No cyborg enhancements for you.

That's fine Raditz would have still beaten him about as easily.

Moth was saying: DrewSaga was saying: Somehow I saw this coming. Raditz statement seems to imply that Tao is already dead, probably not surprising since Raditz was a lot stronger than Goku and Piccolo Jr who were each way above Tao. Honestly more surprising that Tao beat a Saiyan even if it was a low-class child Cherrio is still super strong. Raditz seems pretty unbeatable at this point and Roshi doing the mafuba is the only bet for beating Raditz, who is considered weak for an adult Saiyan. Man Earth really is beyond unlucky in U3. I was hoping Tao would last longer to make this more entertaining for the readers especially if he were to team up but we already know how U3 played out so...

Michelrpg was saying: Well, Tao was gloating about that first target going down too easily, and now Radditz gloats about him going down too easily. gotta love karma.


Regarding the fusion thing... yes, surely it was about Toriyama making it up as he went along. By his own admission he was terrible at math and we can assume since numbers dictate the power scaling, it also means he kind of forgot how strong/weak earlier and later characters were. But, going by the lore, Nail (who "fought" Freeza), told Piccolo that if he and Kami had returned as their original, they would have enough strength to take out Freeza. Of course, nail was talking about 1st form freeza, but still.

Piccolo and Kami being fused together, or King Piccolo and Kami fused, should at very least be able to take out Radditz without any problem. Now Vegeta and the others.. by lore, he "should" be able to, but it's questionable.


Regardless, I'm liking this story so far.

Are we forgetting that Vegeta is already a Super Saiyan in this universe though? This Nameless Namek would be weaker than SSJ Vegeta but stronger than all the other Saiyans (except maybe Bardock if he gets SSJ already by then). I honestly don't think Vegeta even goes to Earth and actually dies under Raichi's hands (who already has Ghost Broly).

One thing is for sure, the Saiyans had it far too well and karma is about to hit the whole race in U3 between King Piccolo beating any low to mid-class Saiyans and Raichi gets to beat the strongest ones (since he already has Ghost Broly). Actually, what's stopping Raichi from attacking them already if he has Ghost Broly?

UltraExtream was saying: And there goes Tao Pai Pai. No cyborg enhancements for you.

That's fine Raditz would have still beaten him about as easily.

I probably missed something. When was this universe's Vegeta revealed to be a Super Saiyan at this point? The Raichi fight?

It was in a U3 special where Broly was King and Vegeta got angry because he wanted to be King and he eventually unlocked SSJ. This was when he and Bardock hatched a plan to beat Broly since Bardock could see Vegeta losing to Broly. Vegeta defeated Broly (underhandedly, he had to) and became the new King of Saiyans.

https://www.dragonball-multiverse.com/en/page-1488.html

Unless I got the timeline wrong and this chapter is actually a prequel but I honestly doubt that.

Epic art!!!

Tao vs Raditz!!! What a momment to be alive!!!!

Tulot_Trouble was saying: J.I.L was saying: Great ape radditzs should be able to deal with such a fusion.


The nameless namekian is likely to be beyond a power level of about 12,000-18,000.

Remember, Casting aside Guru's comment about such a fusion rivaling first form frieza, guru knows that the nameless namekian would at least be above nail who was at 42,000. A power level strong enough to beat any oozaru except elites.


Exactly!!! Guru says that only a SSJ would be enough to defeat Namless Namekian when he seems shocked he died.

Of course i Don't think Guru would imagine the extant and raw power of a SSJ. But Namless Namekian was, without a doubt, at least as strong así Nail. Who Is considered a "special" Namek.

A lot of people are continuing to weigh power-levels over everything; disregarding techniques, skill-level, fighting abilities and years of training in whatever type of martial arts the character of source happens to be. Yes, Saiyans are born and bred to fight and have the advantage of their planet's gravity, so their own agility/movement/speed would be vastly superior. I mean, at this point, most certainly Tao is not going to be able to fight these Saiyans head on.

But Saiyans also have the constant trait of underestimating their opponents and never really expecting a challenge, at least that's my perspective. It's not any sort of fact or providable evidence I can show, it's just some trait that I feel these Saiyans and a lot of others would have, and cockiness always leads to carelessness. But again; he's surrounded.

However, Assassins also always tend have some tricks up their sleeves... I can somewhat imagine either a use of an after-image, some form of aid from his OWN underlings (Tien/Chiaotzu maybe?). I can Tien making doubles of himself, though obviously his power-level would be HEAVILY decreased... they do have the use of Solar Flare along with Chiaotzu's rather chaotic-classic-Toriyama techniques. But again, it seems like Tao came alone in the manner of which he mentioned the contract... buuuut at the same time, the contract could be for his entire school, so his students could also be at his side, waiting to strike.

That's why I think it can always go either way, power-levels be damned. I mean, you have to take into consideration... the personality of children (yes, born to fight.. but) plus a Saiyan's own personality traits (again, my opinion of underestimating opponents) leads to cockiness. And in the opening, that's kinda the vibe I got from this crew which is probably why Raditz is sort of the charge of the group. Saiyans... well actually, now that I think about it, this is a different universe of Saiyans entirely. I mean, yes, they're doing the same thing in the same sort of way; taking over planets, blah blah blah, but the manner of which... and the training preparation prior to being SENT to the planets... those are all behind the scenes and could be different entirely.

Gah, it's making my head spin. And yes, I'm still taking their obviously much higher power-levels and life-experience in higher gravity into consideration. It's just... I can see them being easily fooled by after-images, despite being vastly more fast than their opponents (and can probably see a huge argument ensue from the comment section; Saiyans should be able to keep up with that sort of speed vs. technique shock value presentation plus opponent underestimation). Also, while it's three against one here... are these Saiyans going to group up against a single human? Or are they just going to have a rock-paper-scissor contest to see who fights the guy that just took one of their own out?

I should really check out the novels more so I can get a better understanding of this universe's Saiyans or go back to their particular specials to replenish my memory a bit more because overall, my head just goes "Yea, agree with the crowd; Power-Level > Earthlings, easy-peasy but then suddenly Saiyans underestimate opponents; enemies underestimating opponents? I'm sorry, that's a classic story trope." So it's back and forth. All up to what the Earthlings can actually do to survive, let alone put up a fight.

If they grouped up and they don't have the type of personality traits that I ranted above, then I'm totally with the crowd on this. If they don't and they laugh off their partner's death or chalk it up to letting their guard down, then it's a classic story trope...

Pulling out my beard-hairs on this one everyone. Yes, they should be stronger, faster and vastly superior, but years of fighting experience in a particularly tricky and assassin-y field (Tao's age vs. kid Saiyans), bratty kids overestimating their powers just because their stronger... it's a classic story trope... CLASSIC!!! AHHHHHHH!!!!! It's triggering my inner writer!!!!!

For those complaining about the art style: Can you all do better?

While I didn't throw any shade back then with the prior special, I would be lying if I said I was not a fan, and going by the cover art here I still am not. And if I were to put any sort of reason on it, it's because this looks like a weird western adult comedy cartoon mixture between Beevis and Butthead mixed with Brickleberry, with some panels even leaning into Aeon Flux a bit with their bizarre anatomy. Each have their own appeal and their own audience, but not much of a crossover with Dragon Ball, Akira Toriyama's art and sensibilities or general anime art direction at all. It's WEIRD is all.

I won't dig on the dude or his work beyond that, let them do as they wish. But that's my take on it anyways.

Muscle girls are good, I actually prefer a bulkier girl than a petite one.

Funnily enough back during the Bra v. Cold fight someone mentioned that she came across as a reincarnation of Frieza. I think it was intended to be an insult towards her, but I actually liked the idea.

Moth was saying: Hm. Given Vegeta broke free from the Majinization, but kept his M, I'm guessing Babidi died of not-asphyxiation so the spell wore off.

1 Vegeta was never under Babidi's control.

2. As for Bra losing the M on her forehead a lot of things could have happened. I would just wait and see what the real reason is.

Dr Raichi was saying: @Salagir

Passive doesn't work. The commentators are saying it, your translation team is saying it, you yourself said it doesn't work in french. So why are you so commited to going against the majority opinion and insist on ignoring language?

I know you are stubborn but this is a bit much.

No, he said it doesn't work as well, but in this situation it best portrays what Salagir had wanted to be said here. If you can't and so many others are too stubborn to be willing to try to understand that, then that is on you and all of them, not Salagir. SHEESH!

And just in case you're willing to try to understand, replace passive with submissive and you essentially get what Salagir was trying to portray here as well.

Babidi isn't dead and not the cause of "M" breaking.
That is indeed Son Bra breaking free from it.

Vegeta (and Cell here) didn't lost their "M" because in both cases, they never were controlled by Babidi and played with him.

> Passive
We talked about "passive" two days ago. I can't change my script (in at LEAST two languages) and find the perfect word and update in such a short notice. Especially knowing that the result could just be hated more.
Instead of doing that, I advanced on the site engine code, the script of other special, answered tons of mail. I think it was better application of my DBM time.
(oh, and had a debate about Bojack skin color)

Moth was saying: Kor Saiyajinkami was saying: Dr Raichi was saying: @Salagir

Passive doesn't work. The commentators are saying it, your translation team is saying it, you yourself said it doesn't work in french. So why are you so commited to going against the majority opinion and insist on ignoring language?

I know you are stubborn but this is a bit much.

No, he said it doesn't work as well, but in this situation it best portrays what Salagir had wanted to be said here. If you can't and so many others are too stubborn to be willing to try to understand that, then that is on you and all of them, not Salagir. SHEESH!

And just in case you're willing to try to understand, replace passive with submissive and you essentially get what Salagir was trying to portray here as well.

Look I'm just gonna say that unless you're ESL, you know that 'passive' hits the ear wrong here. Technically it might be correct but no native english speakers would say it this way. Anyone saying otherwise is just being a contrarian, honestly.

What U18 Bra would be trying to say is something like "You're a puppet.", not "You're passive."

Please dont enable Salagir's bad habits.

@Kor Saiyajinkami
>Except that's not true. Plenty of people use passive.

Not in this context.

>Hell I use passive from time to time. Just because it's not very commonly used by the greater majority that does not mean that nobody uses it.

But it does mean it doesnt make contextual sense.

>And I know that passive hits the ear wrong often,

Thats what Im getting at, glad we agree.

>but the thing is that Salagir himself said he wanted it portrayed the way it is because it gets the message he want portrayed across the best.

Salagir doesnt know best, especially when its not his native language and especially when this comic is filled with a lot of engrish.

Look, Kid Gohan is passive. Deku was passive. An axe wielding murderer is many things, but theyre not 'passive'. In this context? A puppet, maybe. Milquetoast, I could see. But 'passive' in this context is a weird choice.

Salagir was saying: Babidi isn't dead and not the cause of "M" breaking.
That is indeed Son Bra breaking free from it.

Vegeta (and Cell here) didn't lost their "M" because in both cases, they never were controlled by Babidi and played with him.

> Passive
We talked about "passive" two days ago. I can't change my script (in at LEAST two languages) and find the perfect word and update in such a short notice. Especially knowing that the result could just be hated more.
Instead of doing that, I advanced on the site engine code, the script of other special, answered tons of mail. I think it was better application of my DBM time.
(oh, and had a debate about Bojack skin color)

You have weirder ideas about how things in Dragonball work than I do, and I havent bothered with Dragonball beyond this fan comic in years.

Im pretty sure you just thought itd be cool for your authors favorite to break the seal, and not much other reason.

@Kor Saiyajinkama
>Actually look at the definition I've provided you. In a weird way that definition technically applies in this case. She has done nothing to resist her mind control up until U18 Bra confronted her, so technically she just accepted and allowed herself to be controlled into killing people she would've never intentionally killed under normal circumstances.

>technically

Did you even read our comments?
sure, the author doesnt know best, man you guys are entitled a little bit too much dont ya think

This possible breakthrough, although interesting and developing, was...... anti-climatic. I feel like the Madam will never have a (at least satisfactory) redeemable resolution to her character. She’s too unlikeable. Hope I’m wrong though.

No, it's just Salagir saying Bra apparently overcame the "evil in her heart in 2 seconds".

You have "tenfold" in english. I have "décuplé" in french (from "dé"→"dix"→10). Except for scientists, I have never heard anyone use this word for actual multiplication by ten. And what is it in japanese? How do non-scientist japanese use this word? By what mad coincidence would the transformation multiplicate by exactly ten the scooter values? This makes no much sense.
Using one word in the whole universe of DB to create a whole system is a bad idea. (Except again, if this word is said by a proven scientist, like Dr Brief after he would have studied the topic)

Moth was saying: I'm actually on board with your idea. You could swap him out with Broly and I wouldve enjoyed it a lot more.
LOL! Well thank Our Lord & Savior that neither of youse are makin the decisions around here xoxo

Good points all around. But I'm sorry, how did you miss janembas super secret back story? This is a failure on your part as a db fan.

I wonder if U16 Majin Son Bra would still continue to be majinized if Babidi dies.

There is still one senzu bean that was not eaten yet, because Cell failed to eat it. I wonder who is going to eat that senzu bean.

Your nickel was saying: Hmm, I was hoping we'd get some more context on the last page. Here's hoping we will in the special though.I agree.

Goku Yellow was saying: I'm 90% sure the cliffhanger this time will be U16 Bra donuting U18 Bra.U16 Son Bra does not know the candy beam technique, thus U16 Majin Son Bra can't transform U18 Bra into a donut.

misi was saying: Not going to lie, it's fun seeing the number of "oh she's going to kill her now" comments fade away with every page... Are we all cool now? do you finally accept what some of us said early on? Great.To be fair, U18 Bra could still die if Cell kills her, because Cell said that he was going to kill U18 Bra to motivate Gohan to fight U16 Son Bra. I think that Cell had no reason to lie to Gohan about that.

Moth was saying: He's utterly feralNo.

Friendly reminder that like Frieza and Emperor Pilaf, Janemba is actually a n ambitious world conqueror who wants to conquer the universe instead of just destroying it.

Janemba may be a sadistic berserker but he is not mindlessly feral at all, Janemba's goals are actually intelligent and conplex, like for example wanting to conquer the world to remade it in his image. Janemba is actually much more smarter than Fat Buu. Unlike Fat Buu, Janemba is actually smart enough to want to conquer the world instead of just turning people into candy.

Unlike Kid Buu, Janemba is actually fully sapient and can and has used his power for intelligent goals:
— Intentionally resurrecting deceased villains to spite and humiliate King Yemma.
— Putting King Yemma in prison as revenge for King Yemma sealing him.
— Being sapient enough to chose to spare King Yemma's life for the reason mentioned above.
— Is sapient and smart enough to have/develop military skills like for example knowling how to efficiently use military weapons like swords, which is a skill that takes years of hard work and practice to learn.
— Is smart enough to understand Pikkon's insults and get offended at Pikkon for it.
— Wanting revenge on Pikko for the above, and humiliating Pikkon by sending him away multiple times instead of killing Pikkom.
— Wnating to conquer the world to remade it into his own image.
— Is smart enough to know the differences between good and evil, as proven when he resurrected the villains while refusing to resurrect benevolent characters.
— Doing all of the above to get his revenge on King Yemma.

U16 Son Bra does not know the candy beam technique, thus U16 Majin Son Bra can't transform U18 Bra into a donut.

Moth was saying: Didnt they explain why he wasnt there? He's utterly feral, he would just attack the Vargas if they showed up and even if he were brought in, youd have a Broly situation right off the bat where he just attacks everyone.

Counterpoint: Doctor Raichi doesn't really strongly resemble his movie counterpart, Frieza is portrayed as much less polite and genteel than he was in canon, Ginyu didn't care about his teammate's lives in canon while DBM's took the blame for their failure onto himself, Fat Buu had moments of utter sadism in the manga that he's yet to display here, Babadi is being portrayed as vastly more competent than he ever was in canon, Saiyans supposedly lack empathy even though Nappa wanted to wish Raditz back and was shocked when Vegeta killed a Saibaman, Super Saiyan 3 draining power even though that's not mentioned or alluded to anywhere in the manga, the Oozaru merely doubling strength even though in the manga Vegeta outright states it's tenfold (and no, Salagir, "conversation isn't maths" doesn't excuse the change, if someone says tenfold then they mean ten times, or at least something close to it, and they certainly don't merely mean "double")...

I could go on. The point is that for all that Salagir has said that he wants to stick to canon, he's been perfectly willing to break with it. If Janemba was in his first form, he could have been lured in and kept placated in some way. Slightly rework Fat Janemba to be more docile. It could have worked, if he'd wanted to make it work.

Heck, could have been an opportunity to bring in Janemba if they hadn't beaten him yet. In terms of personality he might be a lot like Buu, but his actual power set is really neat and distinct and his second form design is kickass.

WTF Happened to Uub He just disappeared from the story entirely.

Moth was saying: Grimael was saying: I figure this scene is pulled out of context for dramatic effect, but I doubt she could really get that strong being impure of blood. Cheetos might be 2 saiajins in one, but he's also to saiajins in one. Goes both ways. Can't argue she be stronger than him on that basis. The other ye, but that does not compute by dragonball logic. Gohan only became comparable to SS3 via Old Kai mystification.

Also, the text is terribly incorrect, here - a correction:


:P

Lmao, much needed levity.

You think Vegito's coffee is two coffees, since hes more than one man?

Well, since things in life have escalation , even if sometimes in an opposite direction such as diminishing returns, I'd say 2x2 is more likely correct :P. Even more so if we consider that fusing did not simply double the power of the two parts, the whole somehow exceeding the sum of its parts.

Ashanark was saying:

Having this flashback right now, when U18 Bra is saying U16 Bra isn't justified being evil, is curious. It's the story saying "Oh yes, she is justified." True, we're given zero context for this flashback...but that's the point. If we knew why Vegito was saying this, Bra wouldn't be as sympathetic, and right now we're supposed to feel sympathy for Bra so we'll forgive her for gleefully killing her family and friends. It seems like overkill to me, because you could already argue being Majin'd alone was excuse enough to forgive Bra; she wasn't doing this "in her right mind." It implies even being Majin'd isn't Bra's fault, but Vegito's... and this blame-shifting kinda nullifies the whole point of her being Majin'd, and this entire arc.

well to everyone else we think that's a load of horse poop.you can't tell me that it's not a little suspicious that this special came out after the Majin Bra massacure of 83? it sounds like Salagir is protecting his "golden girl" and nothing you will say will convince me or anyone else with a brain.

Acer Mahogany was saying: Gogeta would never treat his daughter like this.


Aren't they the basically same guy? Why would they have different personalities?

Another beloved character denigrated to make people like Bra.

How far will you go Salagir? Honestly it's just pathetic now.

You didn't even format the texts properly.

You guys (the fans) seem to be forgetting something about vegito. He's evolved beyond just being "Goku + Vegeta = Him". That's what he was ever since he first fused. But upon marry bulma, being a permanent fusion, and growing as his own person and raising both faimilies. He is Vegito his own person now with his own memories and his own experiences as a result of his own choices and actions, there's bound to be traits about him at this point that you'd never find in goku or vegeta

“What is better ? to be born good or to overcome your evil nature through great effort ?”

I might have misunderstood his quote as being a jab at himself, but I thought he said he was evil by nature and over came it.

I figure this scene is pulled out of context for dramatic effect, but I doubt she could really get that strong being impure of blood. Cheetos might be 2 saiajins in one, but he's also to saiajins in one. Goes both ways. Can't argue she be stronger than him on that basis. The other ye, but that does not compute by dragonball logic. Gohan only became comparable to SS3 via Old Kai mystification.

Also, the text is terribly incorrect, here - a correction:


:P

and like the dragons in skyrim 99% of them are evil aside from parthanaux who only overcame this evil through severe mental training and meditation

DarthMeteos was saying:

there's clearly information we're lacking, here
any reason to moan about dbm, though, right? if taking this at face value makes it easier to complain about, full speed ahead!!!

Of course! I love complaining about this comic even though I've made less than 10 comments on this site despite reading it for 5+ years! You got me... :(

Seriously though, I rarely find myself complaining about this comic, but go off I guess. It makes no sense whatsoever. I know there's a lack of information, that's the problem. Vegito being an abusive father is a bold turn of events. We never see him like this at all, nor is it foreshadowed.

We don't see any special interactions between Vegito (I'll just say Vegetto from now on) and Bra to indicate their rocky relationship. This honestly seems like a cop-out just to make me sympathize with her when I really don't. It would've been interesting to see some bad blood between them or some introspective on her part concerning her relationship with her father. But sadly, we never got that.

Of course, this isn't constructive criticism at all, is it? Just moaning ;(

And this is why Gogeta is THE better fusion. Change my mind.

This is really fucking stupid. This would be alot more meaningful if you have implied this from the beginning of DBM.
But nope you just did "OH AND HEY BRA IS ABUSED BTW K THX"

really dumbfounded this is.

Moth was saying: Darius was saying: As stated above the majin seal must scale with darkness in the heart. I think power plays a factor but more in the ammount of free will they could rustle away with. Vegeta resistance was basically on how much pain he could endure as he writhed whenever he ignored babidi. That coupled with vegeta choosing to let him infect his mind he probably didnt offer that much darkness to begin with. Vegetas bait was to scold gohan on his poor performance. Once babidi is in though its a definite pain to get him out. Now onto dabura he being the king of demons coupled with what shin spoke of him (Basing this off memory he supposed to be super evil and shin was surprised babidi could ensnare him.). Ensaring him he did as he became a veritable yes man whom even felt concern for his master noting that buu couldn't be controlled. The seal worked so well that dabura became a willing slave to babidi. He based his correct assertion that buu strength was uncontrollable after taking just a few hits from buu.Id note that buu evil may have been unreachable due to the fusion with dai supreme kai.Making that destinction reasons out the plotwhole on why buu never got majin sealed.Anyway comparing vegetas mild darkness to dabura kin of a dark realm id standby the notion that inner darkness is the scale.


Super Gojita 3 was saying: Darius was saying: As stated above the majin seal must scale with darkness in the heart. I think power plays a factor but more in the ammount of free will they could rustle away with. Vegeta resistance was basically on how much pain he could endure as he writhed whenever he ignored babidi. That coupled with vegeta choosing to let him infect his mind he probably didnt offer that much darkness to begin with. Vegetas bait was to scold gohan on his poor performance. Once babidi is in though its a definite pain to get him out. Now onto dabura he being the king of demons coupled with what shin spoke of him (Basing this off memory he supposed to be super evil and shin was surprised babidi could ensnare him.). Ensaring him he did as he became a veritable yes man whom even felt concern for his master noting that buu couldn't be controlled. The seal worked so well that dabura became a willing slave to babidi. He based his correct assertion that buu strength was uncontrollable after taking just a few hits from buu.Id note that buu evil may have been unreachable due to the fusion with dai supreme kai.Making that destinction reasons out the plotwhole on why buu never got majin sealed.Anyway comparing vegetas mild darkness to dabura kin of a dark realm id standby the notion that inner darkness is the scale.

I'd say the seal scales with will power. A tiny bit of evil and low will power could mean controlled. A lot of evil and supreme will power like vegetas meant he was not going to get controlled through magic, at least not babadis. vegeta in canon is the only exception.

babadis mentions that there are some good samaritans in the crowd and what not, so they would be difficult.

perhaps its both your idea and mine. combining both ideas should work, as its probably somewhere in between what we are suggesting.

bra doesn't have much evil shown so far, just arrogance and incompetence. low will power.

This kinda goes back to what I said about the person in question having personal conviction as well as willpower. I feel even if Hal Jordan and Sinestro are/were both Green Lanterns, Sinestro would be easier to ensnare because he's willing to go to more lows than Hal is. If you have a low moral compass, Babidi can waggle the carrot in front of you and with some psychic nudging its easier for Sinestro to fall to it because his standards are so low.

But then maybe we're talking about the same thing and using different terminology for it. Personally Ive always tried to shy away from the concept of "Good and Evil" as tangible things, but Dragonball has always went by it and I should probably just accept it as such.

Also Darius, man, you gotta break your paragraphs.

Yes.I believe we've reached a consensus on the matter.

Also, the novel suggests that saiyans are evil by nature, and that the examples of goku and vegeta are exceptions not the rule. Vegetto is mostly immune due to his combined experience of goku and vegeta despite being a double saiyan and doubly prone to this if not more.

bra has no such advantage, and is compelled to be saiyan like, despite being a hybrid. she's not a simple half saiyan like gohan, she's a double saiyan hybrid and might not have the same immunity gohan had.

As stated above the majin seal must scale with darkness in the heart. I think power plays a factor but more in the ammount of free will they could rustle away with. Vegeta resistance was basically on how much pain he could endure as he writhed whenever he ignored babidi. That coupled with vegeta choosing to let him infect his mind he probably didnt offer that much darkness to begin with. Vegetas bait was to scold gohan on his poor performance. Once babidi is in though its a definite pain to get him out. Now onto dabura he being the king of demons coupled with what shin spoke of him (Basing this off memory he supposed to be super evil and shin was surprised babidi could ensnare him.). Ensaring him he did as he became a veritable yes man whom even felt concern for his master noting that buu couldn't be controlled. The seal worked so well that dabura became a willing slave to babidi. He based his correct assertion that buu strength was uncontrollable after taking just a few hits from buu.Id note that buu evil may have been unreachable due to the fusion with dai supreme kai.Making that destinction reasons out the plotwhole on why buu never got majin sealed.Anyway comparing vegetas mild darkness to dabura kin of a dark realm id standby the notion that inner darkness is the scale.

Darius was saying: As stated above the majin seal must scale with darkness in the heart. I think power plays a factor but more in the ammount of free will they could rustle away with. Vegeta resistance was basically on how much pain he could endure as he writhed whenever he ignored babidi. That coupled with vegeta choosing to let him infect his mind he probably didnt offer that much darkness to begin with. Vegetas bait was to scold gohan on his poor performance. Once babidi is in though its a definite pain to get him out. Now onto dabura he being the king of demons coupled with what shin spoke of him (Basing this off memory he supposed to be super evil and shin was surprised babidi could ensnare him.). Ensaring him he did as he became a veritable yes man whom even felt concern for his master noting that buu couldn't be controlled. The seal worked so well that dabura became a willing slave to babidi. He based his correct assertion that buu strength was uncontrollable after taking just a few hits from buu.Id note that buu evil may have been unreachable due to the fusion with dai supreme kai.Making that destinction reasons out the plotwhole on why buu never got majin sealed.Anyway comparing vegetas mild darkness to dabura kin of a dark realm id standby the notion that inner darkness is the scale.

I'd say the seal scales with will power. A tiny bit of evil and low will power could mean controlled. A lot of evil and supreme will power like vegetas meant he was not going to get controlled through magic, at least not babadis. vegeta in canon is the only exception.

babadis mentions that there are some good samaritans in the crowd and what not, so they would be difficult.

perhaps its both your idea and mine. combining both ideas should work, as its probably somewhere in between what we are suggesting.

bra doesn't have much evil shown so far, just arrogance and incompetence. low will power.

I wonder what's so horrible that she had to live through. Last time someone told me this kind of excuse in real life, it was bullshit. But this is not real life so let's hope she will change.

Apart from her actions while under babidi's control, she's still a person that intends to do good, even if she doesn't always like it. If she wants to redeem herself, one of the things she should do is showing more respect towards those she has wronged. Otherwise it won't look like she's admitting her mistakes. I'd still like her to remain just as arrogant against bad guys as she was, because it was so cool when she was taunting Cold and then proved herself by pwning his ass. Yeah, he stole her body afterwards, but that was a dirty move, and while some may think that it should have taught her a lesson, I don't agree, I prefer someone better than herself teaching her a lesson, and the way U18 Bra did it was cool, for all purposes in these last pages she represents U16 Bra's conscience.

I guess she'll become capable of handling her SSJ2 form, because she's sort of doing that right now, so it should help in her fight against Gast. But I am not sure how strong Gast is, he totally pwned Zen Buu with his magic but seemed to have problems against SSJ3 Vegeta's ghost. And U16 Bra would totally annihilate SSJ3 Vegeta. Comparing U13 Vegeta and U16 Bra now, it's ironic that despite several murders she just committed (while U13 Vegeta couldn't be controlled by Babidi at all), she's still a saint compared to him, because U13 Vegeta has killed in cold blood for his whole life while Bra is now showing remorse right after she came to her senses and will hopefully seek to fix what she's done.

It's weird to me how many people find someone attractive or unattractive based on legal status. Like, in many places in the world, including where I live, it's legal to bang a 16 year-old, but illegal to possess pornography of anyone under 18. So it should be normal to be turned on by a live sight of a naked 16 year-old girl, but not by a photo that looks exactly the same? I dunno, that sounds strange.

You make some good points.

The amount of evil, and the will power. Bra is not as evil as some say, but she simply lacks enough will power.

Super Gojita 3 was saying: Bra is not as evil as some say, but she simply lacks enough will power.

I really don't think Frieza can be said to lack in willpower, or Ginyu for that matter, and frankly I find it hard to believe that, in canon, Dabura would lack it. I don't think you get to be king of Hell by being a pushover in any sense of the term.

The fact is that we have only one known instance in canon of someone breaking it, Vegeta. He said it was because of his "pride"...but to be blunt I think it's a little more likely that it's that Toriyama wanted Vegeta and Goku to fight. There is no in-universe justification, it's pure Doylist reasoning, and any attempt to justify it in-universe is going to result in Voodoo sharks (an explanation for a plot hole that doesn't really explain anything and actually just raises further questions)

All right fellas let's take a vote right now for who is hottest. 1 for Majin Bra and 2 for nice Bra.

I vote 2.

Bird Mountain was saying: If Babidi can control anyone with even 1% evil in their hearts, that would mean anyone who can't ride Kinto Un (I honestly don't remember if there is an English version of the name) or would die to Akkuman's (Devil Man's) Devil Beam is subject to being controlled by Babidi. That means Majin Kuririn, Majin Muten Roshi, and Majin Piccolo. Piccolo, despite all his growth, is not pure of heart. Kami says that the evil in his heart is all but gone - not gone completely.

I am not sure that it would be that easy. Would Kaioshin (elder) be controlled by Babidi? Would that make Beerus subject to being controlled by Babidi, assuming Whis allows such an attack. Wouldn't Buu himself be subjected to being controlled by the spell? But Babidi had to resort to controlling Buu through the threat of the sealing spell.

My point is that there are limits on his power. Buu is beyond his control, but Bra isn't? It is simply a matter of power that he can control? But, that would mean evil alone isn't sufficient.

Too bad no one thought to get Devil Man to do a heart check on everyone in order to prevent an attack on everyone by Babidi. Plus, you eliminate the possibility of evil tournament shenanigans aka a plot. If there is no plot, there cannot be plot pacing issues, and no one can hate Bra. That would get rid of 90% of the problem some have with the comments.

maybe. I'd say the limits are beerus due to his role as a hakaishin. He probably could control krillin, but it depends on when. I'd say he's pure of heart in the buu saga, but not in the beginning of db.

The limits shown are will power, and well, bra does not have that. She has been shown to have control issues in comic before like when she killed zangya.

I mean if you want to get technical, the legal age of consent in Japan is 13 as long as the parents also consent, and the same may be true in DBZ-world.

LOL I think since it's from France she is legal! I would pick that heliote chick out of all of them!

Goku's psychology is pretty incomprehensible. He's got Saiyan stuff, sure, but even Vegeta thinks he's weird. From what we see, half-Saiyans are much closer to human mentally. So I don't think "Goku is fine, why can't she handle it" is fair, even accounting for the fact that Goku, while a good person, is HORRIBLY maladapted to a life of peace. If world-ending threats didn't keep showing up he'd be a useless bum by all rights. A useless bum who couldn't be controlled by Babidi, but... That's a narrow circumstance. (And that's assuming he wouldn't start getting evil urges like Vegetto did from never having anyone at his level to fight.)

well, I don't know about you, but if october is the projected wait date for its completion, I would suggest taking a break. I'm not even kidding. You probably won'y like it, and waiting til october will give you a chance to speed read it and then back to the main chapters on a regular schedule.

@Moth

I'm hoping for Majin Bra to get attacked from behind while she is in turmoil. That way the speech doesn't completely work but still distracts her. Maybe Cell got teleported away by the Cell Junior just before they were blasted and The Grand Supreme Kai used his magic to create a fake nucleus in order to trick Majin Bra. I'm not saying that this is going to happen, but The Grand Supreme Kai has to do SOMETHING, right? I think it would be a good posthumous moment for him.

A valid opinion. I simply disagree.

Personally I like this set up on the page. It has links to all the moments of foreshadowing and everything. A well set up moment and executed in a way thats good enough. I don't expect shakespear on my db content.

Personally I like this set up on the page. It has links to all the moments of foreshadowing and everything. A well set up moment and executed in a way thats good enough. I don't expect shakespear on my db content.

Moth was saying: Super Gojita 3 was saying: Personally I like this set up on the page. It has links to all the moments of foreshadowing and everything. A well set up moment and executed in a way thats good enough. I don't expect shakespear on my db content.

My only real issue by this point is the fight couldve been trimmed a little and the Talk No Jutsu given a smidge more dialogue.

Either that or the fight scene shouldve been tweaked to be a little more dynamic in how it went down.

I think they cut too much stuff in my opinion. The way salagir has it, he'll attract the people who want what he's offering. I've left certain comics because they stopped appealing to me. Maybe some day I'll speed read them, but I left for a reason. I didn't like it.

dbm is kind of a "take it or leave it" thing. You can comment on it sure, but the idea that you'll change it by commenting is a fools errand, and a lost cause. So in my case, I like dbm the way it is, and wouldn't change a thing, aside from the likes of the saiyan king, but thats a minor nitpick by my own admission. king vegetas not in the manga, so salagir has room to change him in any way he wants.

After reading BoD up until the conclusion of the Cell Games, I find it very difficult to get into other peoples fanfics so forgive me if I lose interest in your work aaaaaand it's a DnD story. Wew lad, the chances of me starting it much less enjoying are are slim to none but thank you for posting the link, maybe someone else can read it and get me excited enough to take the plunge.

GODkuChad was saying: A little bit too late to be having a change of heart...
Vegeta bashed an elder Nameks skull in on screen, it's never too late my guy

A common complaint is the release schedule. Complaining about that isn't constructive.

I think he's suggesting constructive criticism, not "hurry up and end this because its not what I want. It afFecTs Me".

I'm putting the finishing touches on how I intend to handle my yuan-ti bard character for this Sunday's D&D session (just starting Tomb of Annihilation, wish me luck)

You always try to push dragon ball into being a typical anime soap-opera. Naruto would be more of your flavor.... or whatever anime has teenagers as their main character instead of full grown middle aged adults and beingS thousand to millions year old.

Lord Rime was saying: Invader_Jim was saying: I also like how you snipped the part of Xeno's comment that had him showing patience.

The thing I was criticizing has nothing to do with pacing or release scheduling, so, why would I include it? Believe it or not there are issues with this story as it's being told beyond the pacing and release schedule.

Invader_Jim was saying: So what don't you buy, the part where Son Bra seems to have a duality of good and evil within her and she's now facing an inner conflict?

Yes, that part, because it's not set up or suggested at all - quite the contrary, Bra's every action in this arc has been to demonstrate a total lack of morality, shame, or care. She also began the fight by pointing out that she had completely ditched these things.

Point being that prior to U18 Bra stepping up to bat, we were both told by the story, and shown in the story, that this tactic should not be effecting Majin Bra. She shouldn't care. If she's supposed to care, then there should have been prior glimpses and hints of Bra herself still feeling doubt, shame, regret, or morality. The absolute closest we get is after she killed U16 Gohan, but it was 1) immediately brushed aside, and 2) given all the surrounding context and her actions and words, just as likely an expression of "it's funny that he's still talking, I could have sworn death was instant when you sever that particular vertebrate."

Something as basic as her not intentionally killing anyone, perhaps, except perhaps Cell.

...idle quesstion, I keep hearing that this whole story has been written years ago. Has it been, like, given to an outside editor at any point?

I think the "talk no jutsu" is more effective because it is in a sense, herself doing the talking. It isn't like the others who brought up positive reinforcement, this was "you suck, and you're weak and are worthless, you fucking cunt ass hole!"

and it builds off of the others too on this page.

as to the editor, it has been trimmed down. The novel usually i the expanded full story. It's only been like 4 chapters for this fight. goku vs freeza was even longer, and worse yet, that was mostly 1 on 1, with piccolo doing one kick, and the 2 others firing off 1 ki blast.

This fight has been pretty short for db standards. I agree that it seems longer than it is because of the release schedule, but like shigeru miyamoto said "A delayed game will eventually be good. A rushed game will always be terrible". And I feel this logic can be applied to anything really. And because they don't have a dead line for this because its not being sold, they can do whatever they like with it.

If the worst complaint is the slow release schedule, thats not a knock at the product itself. Theres a forum thread where we compare dbz, dbs and dbm on a slow release schedule every time dbm releases a page, and so far the OG manga has the slowest pacing.

I guess my own mind set is what allows me the patience needed to just enjoy it for what it is. I check in on the release date. usually don't post a comment aside from lately, and go do something else. I really couldn't see a comic being such a negative force or experience that I'd actively allow it to ruin my day, or affect me.



>If she's supposed to care, then there should have been prior glimpses
>just as likely an expression of "it's funny that he's still talking, I could have sworn death was instant when you sever that particular vertebrate."



Maybe that is the glimpse. You misinterpreted that shot then. And the son family has a history of talking after getting a fatal wound. it was even shorter than most. salagir even addressed that scene and said he left it vague. Maybe it was supposed to be "haha he's still talking" or it was that spark you had suggested. The fact its brought up on this page asserts it was the spark all along and its a panel that has more meaning in retrospect.

its like when majin vegeta said he "didn't care" about bulma and trunks, and goku called him out as a liar. Then he mentions to vegeta when buuhan just killed everyone he says "he killed everyone. even bulma and trunks!" vegeta has a shocked look on his face.





so here vegeta has no seeming interest in bulma and trunks as a majin, but in reality he does. He shows this most when not in majin form. The panels where he does not "care" is a front he puts on.

Son bra is different in that she really is not in control of herself, but she can be reasoned with given enough time I suppose. The more human bra of u18 was probably the straw that broke the camels back. It wasn't the main point that did anything, but it was just the right influence on top of the others.

>So...are you just blind to everyone else who's been complaining, or do you just have something against me in specific? Because it's definitely not just a me thing.

I think you and moth, and misi are the 3 top contributors in this regard. aside from that, most people are either saying they like it, or they comment on whats going on.

Moth was saying: Yeah not gonna lie, your version of the Ginyu storyline is infinitely more interesting than Vegito deciding 'nope' and cucking the whole plot thread.

I think it'd be hard to not come up with something more interesting than how Salagir handled it.

You misunderstand me. Top 3 is different than "only 3".

Also, I'm glad you like this twist so far. It's kind of cliche to be honest, but it does seem like it would work.

Maybe she'll shrug that off and go side with babadi anyway. I know the novel states buu will stop this when its enough, but a part of me thinks he'll just shrug and let babadi "win" by letting him go, reviving the evil people he needs to succeed, like demon king piccolo for his namekian language so he can use the db's, among others and make sure to put them in a universe where namek...is dead.

give him false hope but its all for nothing. he turns around and...fat buu is missing. he's left with a weaker servant with a useless language and even less durability. congrats babadi! you win!

certainly. I have complaints about dbm too. The reason I'm not viewed as a mindless hater is likely due to the "quality over quantity" ideal.

If I were so hung up on dbms low points like others are, then people would make the logical suggestion that I leave.

And in fact, leaving is sometimes the best option. case in point db elsewhere.

http://db...4#content-start


I started reading this little "gem" a few years ago, and stopped after it severely jumped the shark.

I didn't waste my time criticizing it. I didn't try to make feeble attempts to save face when people pointed out the obvious like "dude its free you don't have to read it. You can just stop reading".

I read up to a point and said. Thats enough.

I liked the idea of yamcha taking on foes who were on his level or less. But it changed his character entirely and made him entangled into a new arc where the main enemy had any real involvement with him and it wasn't like yamcha slapping beerus on the back.

It got so stupid I couldn't read any more.

I think it also has a release schedule like dbms, but I digress, the schedule is never the issue with fan mangas and what not. its the caliber of its whole package. it being more than the sum of its parts.

So if you want a good read, read this until you can't handle it like me. Tell me where you stopped.

Why do people feel the need to give unhelpful criticism and constantly call DBM bad whether it be pacing or the story
If you dislike it then why continue returning every single time
You don't help people speaking
You just make salagir feel worse for his free project he puts his heart and soul into

Regarding Cell, I think I understand why you feel that way, but I personally just view it as him being part Vegeta. Also he could have cheated by utilizing the cells of more heroic characters in order to resist Babidi.

Turbocharger was saying: I'm not saying that this is the same situation, but Majin Vegeta also had a similar style of behavior when he first came to be. He attacked innocent bystanders (with a grin, iirc) and talked about how all he cared about was his pride and beating Goku.

Very true. But it also took a lot more to get through to him. As well, Vegeta was supposed to be unique for being able to overcome the Majin spell. He'd already demonstrated resistance to it by simply being able to act of his own accord - that by itself is a setup for a turn-around. Conversely, Bra has been nothing but loyal to Babadi thus far, and we haven't been given a reason to think that it's merely because he's a sort of battery for her power boost.

Also at the time wasn't Babadi kind of cut in half by Piccolo, or was that later? Can't remember. If he was, though, then there's a good reason to think that might have played a part.

Side note, I'm annoyed by how easily Cell brushed it off.

asd88 was saying: What do you guys think?

Not bad, but my own thoughts veer towards going back and fixing the Ginyu thing at the same time by having Ginyu do the body swap BUT then return to U8, and since it's a victory there's nothing U16 can do to get Bra's body back without a Dragon Ball wish. So Ginyu is in Bra's body. First thing s/he does? Get his PTO guy to start making him some bitchin' PTO armor. Also a full dance. Also a reunion with the Ginyu Force and posing and dancing, to Frieza's fury. Look, I like U8 and I want fanservice here, I'll admit it, BUT it serves a larger point of Ginyu basically rubbing what he did in Bra's face. Bra is in her room and sulking and recovering and so isn't caught in the mass teleport. Bra is also missed by the Majin spell.

THe rest of U16 also basically tells Bra that this whole thing is her dumbass fault - but she interprets it as "you weren't strong enough" rather than "you shouldn't have done this dumbass thing, you should have just won outright at the start".

Bra's principal concern during the Majin Rebellion is trying to get her body back, both to recover her wounded pride and because she thins that'll prove that she's not weak. The focus for her is on her battle with Ginyu, who can't access her full power but nor is Bra able to access the full breadth of Cold's body's power, so the two basically are evenly matched in their rematch. Eventually she manages to get her body back.

BUT the Majin Rebllion also switches between, say, two or three other major battles against Babadi's heavy-hitters, like Cell and Majin Buu. In the process of seeking out Ginyu to fight, Bra actually skips over and doesn't help out in the other fights.

In the end Bra is able to get her body back (maybe with help from U16 Pan in the form of distraction at a critical moment), you know, a character with actual development and attachment as opposed to U18 Bra, who is basically a Literally Who) from Ginyu...buuuut by the time she does the body is beat to Hell and Cell and Majin Buu have won their fights, killed their opponents and are closing in on her as the last standing fighter that matters. It is pointe dout to her that if she hadn't been so selfish and instead actually helped Gohan against Cell, or Other Gohan against Majin Buu, or whatever, then they'd still be alive.

Add in the idea that we don't learn what happened to the actual tournament fighters so there's real stakes: we don't know if Bra will survive.

There. Ginyu actually gets to do something interesting and meaningful in the story, and the body swap wasn't instantly undone. Bra gets the same basic character development that she's probably going to get out of this but without it being in a pointless slog. Instead of devoting eight chapters to a bunch of chuffa and then a long slog of a battle, we devote those same eight chapters to three or four battles spread out across all of them (with brief montages of other battles) that get to serve as the desired fanservice without turning into a slog.

Mind, I'm not saying this is the One True Way. Just that it would be better than the way that we did get.

Invader_Jim was saying: lol, I can't take you seriously.

Scathing.

Invader_Jim was saying: What difference would that make? You think some random editor is magically going to make things the way you prefer them?

Maybe not, but I'm personally of the opinion that if J.R.R. Tolkien, Stephen King, Agatha Christie, Eiichiro Oda, Akira Toriyama, and so on have pre-readers and editors, then there must be something to the idea of getting a second opinion before going to print.

Invader_Jim was saying: juuust maybe, this is a you thing?

So...are you just blind to everyone else who's been complaining, or do you just have something against me in specific? Because it's definitely not just a me thing.