Mustard was saying: Oh, now I see what's going on. If Black has Rosé, he could quickly transform and possibly get Trunks off guard. It's smart to conserve energy at first so that doesn't happen.

What you're all forgetting is that in all of the situations you're referencing Trunks was definitively stronger than the opponent. That's not the case here, so a different approach is understandable.

He is. He is stronger, because he already fought Black after Zenkai grind and who fought Goku and Vegeta. This one didn't. This Black is only as strong as SS2 Goku (which is already behind Trunks without Rage) and doesn't have Rose.

Teleported_Bread was saying:
You assume too much. He's not 'playing with his food'
Kinda hard to not "assume" when every bit of canonical content involving him shows him never holding back or messing around in any way. Sorry but this is just building up fake tension and no amount of you trying to defend it will change that.

I’m sorry, this sucks ass. Trunks would absolutely never do this, ABSOLUTELY not in a scenario as obviously dire as this one. I don’t buy it, not even remotely.

Why is Trunks who was so efficient in defeating cell and android the moment he returned from the past, playing with his food. I understand he want's revange but he knows he still can loose right? It's not like he is several levels above Black. Also doesn't he know Black doesn't know how to Transform as he learned it from Goku and Vegeta?

kcheeb was saying: Doesn't make sense he wasn't using ssj2 from beginning

Trunks isn't some one wbo enjoys battle fighting around in lower form. He's type of guy who fights life death situation and use max possible power to win quickly as possible, like how he killed 17 818 and cell

First rule of analyzing stories is remembering they are stories. As Stan Lee said, who would win between Iron Man and Spider-Man? Whoever the heck I want to win, I’m writing the story.

South Kai is beyond ssj2 in terms of raw power but not at ssj3. I can see Raditz being able to deal with him with difficulty

If Elder Kai thinks Raditz should of been able to beat South Kai, I do not think that is the real South Kai or a mind-control/augmented version or some illusion of XXI. Otherwise this has been one hell of a waste of buildup for Raditz...

Teleported_Bread was saying: Damian Qualshy was saying: Teleported_Bread was saying: Volonte was saying: Teleported_Bread was saying: This is the same manga that tried to give an explanation for why the writers stopped addressing when Goku and Vegeta got their own Zenkai Boosts, even though both Goku bodies are from points in time that aren't that far apart from each other at all. Toyotaro is realllly bad and reckless with power levels, but one of his worst offenses in that category was in the same arc, being one of the Supreme Kais comparing Vegito's strength to Beerus, the character whose full power is ambiguous on purpose.

Yeaahhhhh, Super def has some jank power scaling across the board, both Toei's and Toyotaro's versions, and especially in this arc. I always personally felt like Toyotaro's variation was at least the better of the two, considering the things that both sources share were likely direct notes from Toriyama, his depictions were at least more grounded.
The DBS anime leaned into the fact that the story first took place years after Buu, so Goku would have gotten stronger. Introducing God Ki would have naturally given Goku a larger boost as a representation of his ascension via Super Saiyan God, but Saiyan biology and (mostly) the prospect of training with those on the high divine level of the cosmos showed that Goku could possibly surpass his new God form. This also meant Goku and Vegeta, alone, needed to face stronger opponents, so after Beerus - who won and never showed his true strength, we get Frieza if he decided to actually train (literally everything he'd ever done and every feat he had demonstrated was pure natural potential with zero effort until the final battle on a vanishing Namek), before being formally introduced to the multiverse and therefore the possibility of strong opponents with unique training methods or strange powers like Hit with his Time Skip/assassination background or the Trio de Danger with their energies that seemingly isn't even ki. Then in filler arcs we'd get stuff like Copy Vegeta, and through Goku Black we had a rouge deity like Zamasu combine his power with Goku's stolen body who would later fuse with his future counterpart, and so on. The anime's power levels did go crazy here and there, but at least it felt like it could grasped and understood, like a pattern could be found. But I can never agree with somebody when they say the manga did power levels better, because it didn't. Toyotaro made Blue so complex and convoluted that it almost seemed pointless to have, likely in an unnecessary effort to give Super Saiyan God more spotlight. He'd boldly and recklessly compare Vegito's power level against Fused Zamasu to Beerus, as I mentioned, but it was still an amateur writing decision. Then in his post-Tournament of Power arcs, he'd make UI Goku go uncharacteristically all-out on Earth against Moro - something I say because there's a part in his fight against Moro with mastered UI where he punches him while in midair which causes this massive planet-wide blast of hurricane-force wind, a force of power we never see with Ultra Instinct on such a widely enveloping scale, and I remember I had a problem with this moment cause Goku is supposed to care about collateral damage even knowing the Dragon Balls can fix everything and thought it was out of character to risk getting others hurt in the process like that, feeling flashy and powerful for the sake of being flashy and powerful. We see him accidentally destroy a nearby city while fighting Majin Buu as SSJ3 in Z, but that was when he was seemingly more or less cornered atop being winded and low on time in the living world. We also saw Moro copy Angel powers without it being a dud, something that should be impossible, and later fuse with the Earth. Oh, and don't even get me started on Black Frieza, TUI and Ultra Ego - those crap forms shouldn't even exist, and the first mentioned made an entire arc feel like a waste of time by one-shotting Goku and Vegeta instantly while they were apparently at their strongest ever according to Toyotaro.
Very basically, I'll take the anime's any day. Even in the face of its flaws, the DBS anime always felt salvageable, like you could add or fill in something here or there to make things truly work out or make sense without rewriting anything entirely.

So when anime continues with the arcs that manga already did, you will suddenly like them simply because it's anime version now?
It strongly depends on what the anime does. I suspect three possibilities, since both are different continuities: The anime will make its own arcs, the anime will adapt the manga (which I don't want), or the anime will adapt the manga but make a LOT of changes, exclusions and revisions. If they do the last one, it would be so the story fits with the anime continuity as well as to discard of bad writing decisions in the manga, of which there are a lot and they get really bad. And Toei would need to change all of them, because if they leave in some of the bad manga writing, I'm dropping the show entirely, cause it would do Dragon Ball bad, given how damaging the manga is already. To name a few, I want none of the new forms from the Granolah Arc (exclude that arc entirely if possible), I don't want to hear that Kid Buu had God Ki during the final battle despite every mortal being able to sense his ki, no giving Moro a Senzu Bean or Moro copying an Angel's powers, and speaking of Angels, Merus needs to stay dead and not be revived as a mortal for no good reason.

I guess you don't like the original Manga either. Goku getting ridiculous forms, making stupid decisions, people not staying dead..

And I don't know where you got that Kid Buu had God Ki (Evil Buu got the magic powers of Daikaioshin, not his supposed God Ki), but either way.. Goku has God Ki and people can still sense him.

Teleported_Bread was saying: Volonte was saying: Teleported_Bread was saying: This is the same manga that tried to give an explanation for why the writers stopped addressing when Goku and Vegeta got their own Zenkai Boosts, even though both Goku bodies are from points in time that aren't that far apart from each other at all. Toyotaro is realllly bad and reckless with power levels, but one of his worst offenses in that category was in the same arc, being one of the Supreme Kais comparing Vegito's strength to Beerus, the character whose full power is ambiguous on purpose.

Yeaahhhhh, Super def has some jank power scaling across the board, both Toei's and Toyotaro's versions, and especially in this arc. I always personally felt like Toyotaro's variation was at least the better of the two, considering the things that both sources share were likely direct notes from Toriyama, his depictions were at least more grounded.
The DBS anime leaned into the fact that the story first took place years after Buu, so Goku would have gotten stronger. Introducing God Ki would have naturally given Goku a larger boost as a representation of his ascension via Super Saiyan God, but Saiyan biology and (mostly) the prospect of training with those on the high divine level of the cosmos showed that Goku could possibly surpass his new God form. This also meant Goku and Vegeta, alone, needed to face stronger opponents, so after Beerus - who won and never showed his true strength, we get Frieza if he decided to actually train (literally everything he'd ever done and every feat he had demonstrated was pure natural potential with zero effort until the final battle on a vanishing Namek), before being formally introduced to the multiverse and therefore the possibility of strong opponents with unique training methods or strange powers like Hit with his Time Skip/assassination background or the Trio de Danger with their energies that seemingly isn't even ki. Then in filler arcs we'd get stuff like Copy Vegeta, and through Goku Black we had a rouge deity like Zamasu combine his power with Goku's stolen body who would later fuse with his future counterpart, and so on. The anime's power levels did go crazy here and there, but at least it felt like it could grasped and understood, like a pattern could be found. But I can never agree with somebody when they say the manga did power levels better, because it didn't. Toyotaro made Blue so complex and convoluted that it almost seemed pointless to have, likely in an unnecessary effort to give Super Saiyan God more spotlight. He'd boldly and recklessly compare Vegito's power level against Fused Zamasu to Beerus, as I mentioned, but it was still an amateur writing decision. Then in his post-Tournament of Power arcs, he'd make UI Goku go uncharacteristically all-out on Earth against Moro - something I say because there's a part in his fight against Moro with mastered UI where he punches him while in midair which causes this massive planet-wide blast of hurricane-force wind, a force of power we never see with Ultra Instinct on such a widely enveloping scale, and I remember I had a problem with this moment cause Goku is supposed to care about collateral damage even knowing the Dragon Balls can fix everything and thought it was out of character to risk getting others hurt in the process like that, feeling flashy and powerful for the sake of being flashy and powerful. We see him accidentally destroy a nearby city while fighting Majin Buu as SSJ3 in Z, but that was when he was seemingly more or less cornered atop being winded and low on time in the living world. We also saw Moro copy Angel powers without it being a dud, something that should be impossible, and later fuse with the Earth. Oh, and don't even get me started on Black Frieza, TUI and Ultra Ego - those crap forms shouldn't even exist, and the first mentioned made an entire arc feel like a waste of time by one-shotting Goku and Vegeta instantly while they were apparently at their strongest ever according to Toyotaro.
Very basically, I'll take the anime's any day. Even in the face of its flaws, the DBS anime always felt salvageable, like you could add or fill in something here or there to make things truly work out or make sense without rewriting anything entirely.

So when anime continues with the arcs that manga already did, you will suddenly like them simply because it's anime version now?

Teleported_Bread was saying: This is the same manga that tried to give an explanation for why the writers stopped addressing when Goku and Vegeta got their own Zenkai Boosts, even though both Goku bodies are from points in time that aren't that far apart from each other at all. Toyotaro is realllly bad and reckless with power levels, but one of his worst offenses in that category was in the same arc, being one of the Supreme Kais comparing Vegito's strength to Beerus, the character whose full power is ambiguous on purpose.

Yeaahhhhh, Super def has some jank power scaling across the board, both Toei's and Toyotaro's versions, and especially in this arc. I always personally felt like Toyotaro's variation was at least the better of the two, considering the things that both sources share were likely direct notes from Toriyama, his depictions were at least more grounded.

Yamoshi he said go help the others!
If we need someone reacting to every little thing Kamba does then the king can do that for you, go make yourself useful against Chilled or the other infected.

Super Saiyan 2 at least. And hey, change in outfit! Thank you, I hate his DBS design.

Teleported_Bread was saying: Now it's getting real

Osha was saying: BeGabi was saying: I always thought that given the "potential" of the half-saiyans and the hard surviving environment of the future timeline, Ss2 Trunks should at least be as strong as Ss3 goku.
That is in fact what the Super anime thinks too.
Measuring the strength of a transformation by comparing it to another's never really worked in the long run, when you factor in the later increase of one's base power. When Trunks first reappeared, SSJ3 Goku was stronger, probably to or around the same degree when Goku and Trunks first met and sparred as ordinary Super Saiyans, since he blocked Trunks's full power by blocking his strongest slash with his sword using two fingers from both hands in DBS. Last time Goku did this, he used one finger, had to channel his ki to it and was being tested. SSJ2 Trunks now is definitely stronger since his first return in decades and probably is at least at SSJ3 Goku's level during the Future Trunks Arc now, like you said.

There's also how the Manga handled it, where it's essentially explained that Goku Black was farming Trunks for Zenkais to get closer to the true potential of Goku's Body and improve. When Trunks and Goku square off in the past, Trunk's SSJ2 is equal in strength to Goku's SSJ3 due to the amount of Zenkais Trunks has gone through, improving his base strength. Meanwhile Trunks remarks that this strength still isn't enough to face off against Goku Black, who at most has Super Saiyan 2 at that point in the story. Which when thinking about it that way, I suppose it would mean in terms of Base Forms the Power Scaling would be Goku Black > Trunks > Goku = Vegeta

BeGabi was saying: I always thought that given the "potential" of the half-saiyans and the hard surviving environment of the future timeline, Ss2 Trunks should at least be as strong as Ss3 goku.
That is in fact what the Super anime thinks too.

this Trunks seems to have the Battle sense of a sedated Helen Keller..

Trunks is not known for being a jobber

so this confirmed that his thoughts are really transparent to the people he made contract with

This doesn’t make sense for Trunks to struggle this badly against Black without Rose form. Not when this trunks is capable of reaching super saiyan blue and god ki tier. Black only achieved that level by fighting goku in those god forms.

Trunks with rage form should’ve been able to easily kill him like he did the androids and cell of his time. Even if you use the manga version trunks is still powerful enough to cut zamasu who is stronger than goku black without or with rose form.

C'mon, do something useful!

BangBang was saying: DrewSaga was saying: Well it's good that Vegeta and Frieza are willing to share with each other...

Endless Universes, enough for all the tyrants.


mAc Chaos was saying: So his idea is to just share the universes. Because there is basically infinity universes, there's plenty for XXI to eat while the others rule theirs.


Burner283828 was saying: Infinite resources/land are perhaps irresistible but I'd be scared of accidentally entering a universe destroyed by Carbonite/Broly/XXI or getting caught by a Zen Buu.


Teleported_Bread was saying: XXI isn't lying. They will technically get what they were promised. But they will all be 'in XXI's stomach', so to speak.

XXI's offer is a paradox. Infinite universes would mean that every henchman gets his share and there are no conflicts of interest.

But XXI's hunger is also infinite. That means, sooner or later, he MUST attack his allies in other universes as well. But that's not possible, since each ally gets infinite space and influence. It's a dilemma.

Sounds like a deal with the devil.

ChrisOfChaos was saying: kcheeb was saying: He only took his body not the mind

How he doesn't K how does he know kamehameha

In super he didn't know gokus techniques

He invented his own version. Kai usually have some means of monitoring events on Earth so he probably watched Goku perform the technique in a past battle before he stole his body.


Godtube remember?

kcheeb was saying: He only took his body not the mind

How he doesn't K how does he know kamehameha

In super he didn't know gokus techniques

He invented his own version. Kai usually have some means of monitoring events on Earth so he probably watched Goku perform the technique in a past battle before he stole his body.

Trunks' face is missing!

Is that Kai Kai, clones or Afterimage?

It feels like this version of Goku Black is getting too hyped up. For someone who hasn't faced Goku in a real fight yet he seems to know a lot about the body he's using. Come on, Trunks, don't lose to this imposter.



Damian Qualshy was saying: Trunks' face is missing!

Is that Kai Kai, clones or Afterimage?

Clones that Kai Kai'd in. That's probably why Trunks didn't sense them before. He teleported away to create the clones first.

Teleported_Bread was saying: Paaah was saying: Hopefully this is Trunks messing around, otherwise Black might just impale him like the first Trunks.
Trunks isn't messing around, you're supposed to take it steadily in a fight or you'll just exhaust yourself, or worse, fall to an unexpected attack because you didn't measure your opponent.

What? Did he do the same to 17 and 18? Or Cell? It's not like he's fighting Zamasu first time so there's not much room to measure??


Also, this dialogue is off. What techniques, what price? Something might have been lost in translation. Either that or I'm just that bad in the language after all.

Teleported_Bread was saying: Paaah was saying: Hopefully this is Trunks messing around, otherwise Black might just impale him like the first Trunks.
Trunks isn't messing around, you're supposed to take it steadily in a fight or you'll just exhaust yourself, or worse, fall to an unexpected attack because you didn't measure your opponent.

I'm sorry that the post probably sounded like blatant criticism, the point I wanted to make is that I was worried Trunks was letting his guard down worrying where Black went (when normally he should be able to sense him, Black could have dropped his ki and that'd be fine and good strategy).

I forgot to add in my first post that this page almost seems to set Trunks up in the same position that killed the Trunks from this timeline but he'll be able to overcome it (if indeed this is a parallel to that).

Hopefully this is Trunks messing around, otherwise Black might just impale him like the first Trunks.

Okay at least some new action instead of ki blasts and smoke fake outs... Wait are you going for the Ki wave clash? Oh no.

A question of understanding for those who are well versed in the Goku Black Arc. Is SSJ Rage actually a transformation that Trunks can control, in the sense that he can activate it whenever he wants? Or was that a one-time thing in DBS, and he would need a similar situation to relive it?

Teleported_Bread was saying: King Kindred was saying: Trunks should not be struggling with Black. Nor should he be holding back against someone who destroyed everything he held dear. He's not Goku.
There are reasons why somebody doesn't throw everything they have at their opponent from the get go besides 'cause Goku does it'.

Can you guys just please read the story? I can't answer and put your complaints to rest without breaking any DBM site guidelines.
Going "it makes sense with context" doesn't matter when it goes against what the character is historically known for. You can yell it as much as you want, it doesn't change the fact that Trunks would just blast him here and there without giving him a chance under any circumstances.

Trunks should not be struggling with Black. Nor should he be holding back against someone who destroyed everything he held dear. He's not Goku.

Does Trunks not have his super saiyan rage form or whatever it's called? he should be dominating a ssj black if he went that form

Teleported_Bread was saying: iron leaf was saying: MUI was saying: I’ve said it before, but the writers are portraying Trunks here as if he’s Goku — as if he’s a Saiyan who enjoys a good fight even when the universe is in danger. Trunks is someone who destroys his enemies without hesitation. He did this with Frieza, the androids, and Cell. So I honestly don’t understand why Salagir is acting like he has the same mentality as Goku. Normally, Trunks would have immediately transformed into SSJ Rage and destroyed Black in a split second.Wait a minute. You seem to be confusing something. Mirai channel95 is the creator of The Inexorable Distortion. Salagir only hosts it on the DBM website.
Plus that's wrong @MUI. Trunks isn't enjoying himself, he's not being Goku. Not going full power from the start is strategic and smart. He'll exhaust himself faster otherwise, to say the least.

True. The one thing he learned from fighting cell is that he was an amateur (tfs hit the nail on the head there). Trunks learned a variety of lessons in z. One don't play around (vegeta letting the androids getting absorbed). Two conserve energy when you can (vegeta explains goku mastery of the saiyan form). Three assess yourself and understand your limits (transforming to ultra 2 burnt out his stamina and he was to big to fight cell). Four beware your opponents. You'll never know what they are capable of. (Goku hitting cell with a warp Kamehameha and not having anything left in the tank to keep going).

MUI was saying: I’ve said it before, but the writers are portraying Trunks here as if he’s Goku — as if he’s a Saiyan who enjoys a good fight even when the universe is in danger. Trunks is someone who destroys his enemies without hesitation. He did this with Frieza, the androids, and Cell. So I honestly don’t understand why Salagir is acting like he has the same mentality as Goku. Normally, Trunks would have immediately transformed into SSJ Rage and destroyed Black in a split second.Wait a minute. You seem to be confusing something. Mirai channel95 is the creator of The Inexorable Distortion. Salagir only hosts it on the DBM website.

So, uh, did Salagir give Vegito this previously unmentioned supposed immunity to poison to justify him eating this dark senzu bean?

Is Trunks actually holding back then? Man, imagine if Toei and Toyotaro kept his personality from Z.

So here Gohan likes battles... interesting

SuperSaiyanGodVic was saying: The artist for this comic has been great! I'm enjoying the comic so far. Honestly I enjoyed Super. I don't know why everyone's so butthurt about it, I hope Beerus and the gods of destruction get added into dbm.

DBM ignores Super and GT unfortunately. And people aren't "butthurt" about Super, at least not actual fans that aren't Z fanatics who didn't even watch original DB or Japanese dub. It's just that writing was completely bonkers at times and powerscaling doesn't exist.

King Kindred was saying: Definitely seems like Old Kai is trying to rile Vegetto up into acting. He knows that his ego is fragile and he's been upset about his loss this whole time. He's going to push him into stopping XXI.

I'm thinking that, or old kai is talking about how weak from hunger he is.

Wow! That escalated fast

Ayashi was saying: Shouldn't "fellow man" be "fellow saiyan" instead?
Only when in LoTR.
To me, "(wo)man" is a gender thing, not a species thing.
So even some specimens from weird-sexual species like Piccolo or Frieza, are still clearly "men" as a gender role.

Teleported_Bread was saying: King Kindred was saying: Damian Qualshy was saying: mAc Chaos was saying: Damian Qualshy was saying: Okay but why? Like, he's clearly not a berserk right now, he thinks straight. Why go to war?
I think it just changed their mindsets.

Maybe? I can understand all of the other infected Saiyans, but not Cumber. At the beginning he simply didn't recognize Yamoshi, as if he's a different person.


I had to go back because I was a bit confused myself. It seems like it creates another personality within him. The real Cumber and then the bloodthirsty Cumber.
I still don't get why it's specifically a 'disease'. It feels a bit... off, with how this whole thing is treated. They don't seem like 'the evil Saiyans' if they can be 'cured'. Maybe it's just the execution, idk...

It probably stems from how Cumber affected others with his Ki in Dragon Ball Heroes. Goku for example went completely berserk because of it.

Feeling like the evil Varga is Zen Buu.

Stevethebarbarian was saying: Realistically it feels like this Black should be no serious threat to Trunks. He never fought Goku and Vegeta, and it seems like it’s just him here with no Zamasu and no immortality. This Trunks is far beyond the one he killed, having reached a point where he can even fight Marged Zamasu, and Trunks knows better than to let the fight drag on too long

They were always together, Black and Zamasu. That's why it's weird he didn't show up yet.
But yeah, this one is weaker than SS2 Goku, and doesn't even have Rose yet.

Dantas1996 was saying: XXI continues to attack Gast even after he surrenders, according to the rules that Gast cited he should be disqualified
Just thought the same, either the authors forgot or Gast turned so dumb to ignore such a fact.

kingworld was saying: What was Goku supposed to answer in order to make the Old Kaioshin happy?
"Hey you must win but you have no hopes and I cannot power you up"
"I'll do my very best!"
"You're so stupid"
What was the Old Kaio hoping to hear?!
Yeah, I didn’t really get it either. This conversation made no sense, unless the Old Kaiohshin had been about to suggest something else. Unfortunately, I guess it’s the former, as we’ve already witnessed a lot of conversations which made no sense, in this comic (such as Goten complaining on Goku for not telling them about Bu’s particles in his fight against XXI, notwithstanding it had literally just happened…)

thebritwriter was saying: Truth be told I’m more distracted by the out of the nowhere dragon passing by.

This looks like a solid start but I’m guessing this will equate to a ‘is that all’ from black.

I mean, it's just for suspense. Showcase the surroundings in complete silence.

Teleported_Bread was saying:
Knowing Toriyama's style, that's a winged dinosaur.

Icarus is a dragon actually

Truth be told I’m more distracted by the out of the nowhere dragon passing by.

This looks like a solid start but I’m guessing this will equate to a ‘is that all’ from black.

Are there any female Frieza-kins? Because this one looks like a perfect little Frieza-kin girl, mwahahaha!!!

papupata was saying: Is I'K'L mind controlling that Kai?
I don’t think it’s mind control. I’K’L probably showed the Kai everything he learned about the other contestants and how dangerous they are. This Kai already doesn’t like what he has seen during this tournament, so he was I’K’L’s best choice of who would listen to him and “save” every universe.

Oh I guess we are just getting straight into it without a cover? Interesting take. Also a bit confused but I guess this is just the first page.

Um.... this is a bit odd?

The poses look stiff but I love the proper use of highlights. And that hair is done amazing.

Ah so it's regular SSJ he's using, not Rose

Damian Qualshy was saying: mAc Chaos was saying: Damian Qualshy was saying: Okay but why? Like, he's clearly not a berserk right now, he thinks straight. Why go to war?
I think it just changed their mindsets.

Maybe? I can understand all of the other infected Saiyans, but not Cumber. At the beginning he simply didn't recognize Yamoshi, as if he's a different person.


I had to go back because I was a bit confused myself. It seems like it creates another personality within him. The real Cumber and then the bloodthirsty Cumber.

Teleported_Bread was saying: Damian Qualshy was saying: BangBang was saying: Swistak-z-Krakowa was saying: So stupid - why this girl is there...

Apparently, everyone wants the Future Trunks x Mai rubbed on everybody's face.

Everyone forgot that Mai is at least twice as old as Bulma...
Apparently everyone seems to forget Mai's a soldier who's been fighting Goku Black for almost as long as Trunks, and had been leading an entire armed resistance movement against his genocide of the Human Race. Nobody complains when Bulma is around.
Btw, a lot of people know Mai's chronological age. We've just been looking at her as somebody who's started a new life, and one that doesn't involve a fruitless path of world conquest. She probably stopped viewing herself as what she was before Pilaf made them young again awhile ago.

She's still someone with a mind of a 40+ year old woman, flirting with a child.

I'm sure most people would have preferred Mai to act like a responsible woman and not date someone almost a third of her age.

Spoiler, click to show
Artist mentioned in the image

BangBang was saying: Swistak-z-Krakowa was saying: So stupid - why this girl is there...

Apparently, everyone wants the Future Trunks x Mai rubbed on everybody's face.

Everyone forgot that Mai is at least twice as old as Bulma...

papupata was saying: "We're going to be the big fat"

Is that some kind of an idiom in French that doesn't translate?

In a way. We say Gros lard in french. Dunno your slang for a fat guy who looks brainless in english

嗶? So this comic was originally in Chinese? I wonder why there isn't a Chinese version on this site...

Oh yes! It's Super Saiyan 2 instead of Rose!

Kanyon was saying: Now, I know Trunks isn't going to accidentally blow up the Earth, but I guess Zamasu never heard of the phrase "Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake"

Zamasu doesnt want to destroy planets. He wants mortals wiped out so the planets can flourish without them. Otherwise he could just wipe out every planet in a few weeks by using Kai Kai and just blasting them.

Oh we all know Future Trunks is known for his rage boosts.
...
In DBS of course, not DBZ.

Teleported_Bread was saying: JustSaiyan was saying: So did he just shatter all her bones, vaporize her entire nervous system, or disintegrate her cardiovascular system?

Or all of the above?
My assumption was that he ruptured her ki inside her. I can think of several reasons why that would be fatal and possibly quite painful, let alone to Mai, including her unfortified/untrained body.

Yamcha SSJ was saying: Imagine someone successfully conquering the world, while he can be killed by a sniper.
Man, super is pure garbage.
The manga is garbage, but I digress. That literally never happened. Goku Black never even got grazed by a bullet. Even if he did get hit by one, landing a fatal shot is another story.

Majin Wasabi was saying: Trunks…. You killed her yourself by bringing her to the battle
Really...?

To be fair is he wrong? Mai definitely shouldn't have been there.

So did he just shatter all her bones, vaporize her entire nervous system, or disintegrate her cardiovascular system?

Or all of the above?

Imagine someone successfully conquering the world, while he can be killed by a sniper.
Man, super is pure garbage.

Trunks…. You killed her yourself by bringing her to the battle

Shouldn't she be vaporized like he did to bulma

Greenfox was saying: Sooo bullets hardly scratched kid Goku's skin when he was first introduced.....and now Goku black, who is millions or even billions times stronger than start-kid-Goku is bleeding from a shotgun bullet.....sure a shotgun bullet has more impact than the pistol Bulma used at the start of Dragon Ball....and the bullet could even be enhanced to do more damage....but did I mention yet that Goku black is millions or even billions times stonger than start-kid-Goku?

Oh and please don't mention Goku and Krillin getting hurt by bullets in Dragon Ball Super because that's just as odd to me...I cut those clips out of those episodes.

Yes I know, power scaling is BS and bla bla bla....and maybe my opinion is not popular, but I don't think Goku black would bleed because of any type of gun bullet.

What part of their durability comes from focused defense do y'all not understand? When they are not focused on defending they're vulnerable. That's how it has always worked. Vegeta explained this whole principle on Namek. Saiyans aren't built like Frieza's race. They're flesh and bone reinforced by ki. They're built to take damage naturally. That's how Goku despite reaching god levels was taken out by a tiny laser ring.

And you cut those bullet clips from Super but in both instances they're scratched by the bullets like Black is here(who doesn't even have Goku's full strength by this point).

Damian Qualshy was saying: So.. Before we get more pages, I can only assume that this is where they die. Six months ago. And yet EVERYONE ELSE is still alive after that. Zamasu does a lousy job in this story, where it's assumed in DBS that Earth would be the last of the planets with living inhabitants.

Funny thing really that in Dbs's manga Black and Zamasu actually do kill everyone in the future before the secobd encounter with Goku and Vegeta (they just float around shooting ki everywhere, Trunks and the Kais appear to help but since they were only focusing on Black Zamasu just kills the last guy in a warehouse).

It may not be most peoples favourite version of the arc but I favor it happily, besides some hiccups (like the hakai attempt) it gives actual explanations how Mai or Trunks in seperate occasions escaped Black (someone who should sense any life force or ki being a kai apprentice and all).

vnass412 was saying: Wow,so they weren't even training together? That's pretty poor strategy.

Yes, it's kinda disappointing. But if you think about it, 10 years of Training and waiting, when the enemy finally come... It's not easy to stay the whole Time concentrated.

Now I think it too, sadly, that our Fighters will be destructed. What a pity.

So.. Before we get more pages, I can only assume that this is where they die. Six months ago. And yet EVERYONE ELSE is still alive after that. Zamasu does a lousy job in this story, where it's assumed in DBS that Earth would be the last of the planets with living inhabitants.

@beeruz, Koshej, thebritwriter, Teleported_Bread
It's true, the story created by Mirai channel95 and Chibi Dam'Z has long since been published in full on other platforms and has also been summarized several times on YouTube. Since it is mentioned. I would ask again not to mention future plots and avoid spoilers as much as possible.

I just want to say that trunks should be training them all to be at least yamcha level I get that this isn't the time but after making buu showed up and he was considered the hero of earth he should've started taking on students

Koshej was saying: beeruz was saying: Is this a re telling? I've seen this whole story in full on YouTube I think but now it's on dbm
Huh? This is actually past the canon Super timeline, lol. Or do you mean the actual comic being YT'ed?


He means if the whole comic is simply being retold without any new features, which it looks like to be the case. (I hadn’t seen it on YT or anywhere else but if it’s all deja vu at this point then chances are nothing new won’t be added)

...Oh

Well I'm gonna say take more time to write this out, take the criticism, and develop your art more. Good luck.

Teleported_Bread was saying: Damian Qualshy was saying: I'm honestly surprised Black and Zamasu didn't go on with their plan after Trunks and Mai died. It's not like they died like.. 2 hours before the main duo's arrival.
Of course they did. But they decided to destroy the Human race more slowly than with other mortals, whose planets they seemingly implied to have simply destroyed.

I believe slowly killing humanity was to twist the knife more in Trunks (for time travelling) that said (and only just occurred to me) how is bulma still alive at this point? There’s no reason he wouldn’t go straight to her like he did in the other timeline.

Damian Qualshy was saying: I'm honestly surprised Black and Zamasu didn't go on with their plan after Trunks and Mai died. It's not like they died like.. 2 hours before the main duo's arrival.
Don't think too hard about it. Stories like these sometimes need inconsistencies to work.

I'm honestly surprised Black and Zamasu didn't go on with their plan after Trunks and Mai died. It's not like they died like.. 2 hours before the main duo's arrival.

DrewSaga was saying: Problem is how Trunks deals with an immortal.

I don't know if this mirrors the anime 100%, but in addition to ssj rage shown here, the anime had trunks use the mafuuba.

if he gets a seal from roshi, or somewhere, he can seal zamasu like he did before, but better.

Shabby was saying: Infinite rage and infinte trauma

Infinite rage, Infinite trauma, Infinite Zamasu

Wait that was the first chapter? Bit of a let down given it was 90% recap but we’ll see how this goes moving forward.

Teleported_Bread was saying: No, this comic is supposed to take place after Broly was sent back to his universe, right?
If that were the case, this comic would make a little more sense (Still heavily flawed, but slightly better) but no. It’s clearly stated that this comic explains how Broly ended up frozen before the Vargas found him in U20.(Page 1) Sayazur first comment.

DrowsyBean was saying: ssjrage gonna get whooped if this version of goku black already has ssj rose

Good, worst thing ever.

So, would Broly still exist in this timeline? Super or Z. Would Morro have broken out after Buu was destroyed in this timeline? When did Beeres wake up in this timeline and what would he have done? Do any usable Dragonballs exist in this timeline / are the granola dragonballs canon in this timeline?

The sad ending of universe 20. I always thought Broly was frozen due to wandering space so long. But to be frozen inanimated due to being responsible for a universe destruction is crazy work. So when he was sent back to universe 20 is he just turned to ice again since there is nothing in the reality of universe 20 anymore neither life and death.

Teleported_Bread was saying: Damian Qualshy was saying: Teleported_Bread was saying: Matrixkid was saying: Teleported_Bread was saying: There was only one timeline to choose from. These changes happened because Trunks traveled to it, much like what happened when he traveled to the past to save Goku (19 and 20/Gero appearing instead of 17 and 18, 17 and 18 being stronger than they were in the future, 16 joining the Cyborgs).
Pretty sure that Trunks's time travelling itself never actually changed anything, Trunks just thought it did due to his lack of understanding of time travel. This is all speculation on my part, but 19 and Gero were so weak that even in the future timeline, the Z-Fighters were able to beat them, and because of how short lived they were, Bulma probably never thought to bring them up. They still existed in both timelines.

16 was also probably around in the future timeline, but the difference in circumstances prevented the Androids from noticing him, leaving him locked up in the pod for all those decades.
As for 17/18 getting stronger, it's debated whether they actually are weaker in the future or not. Some say that just like when they killed Future Gohan, the Androids were just holding back against Trunks to toy around with him. And by the time Trunks could destroy them, he was too strong to tell the difference. Or, we could take DBM's logic that they got weaker over time.
My assumption was that Bulma didn't fully grasp true time travel yet and wound up creating a machine that splintered the timeline rather than change the future. It's probably a difficult thing to number down even for her, and she probably had some limits since her lab and Capsule Corp had seen better days. As for 16, he was probably inadvertently destroyed when 17 and 18 turned on Gero in Trunks's timeline or was relocated and lost, but the course of the past was altered enough that 16 found himself in 17 and 18's path, which gave them the idea to wake him up.

Damian Qualshy was saying: Teleported_Bread was saying:
Damian Qualshy was saying: Okay so it's not the unseen timeline, kind of lame. I hope it will be explained how and why this timeline changed and it WON'T be "Oh it's because of Trunks like in Z" because.. that is wrong.
If you're referring to that weird anomaly that altered the timeline slightly in Z (making 17 and 18 stronger, having them appear later and with 16 instead of just themselves) when you say 'Oh it's because of Trunks like in Z', I'm quite sure it's seemingly due to the equation Trunks's time machine runs on, and not due to Trunks himself. If Bulma was able to make a true time machine, their timeline would change, not branch off. I'm sure the math was difficult even for her, or she didn't have the time and/or worried about the Cyborgs knocking at her door and ruining her intents to change the future or something.

Sorry but this makes no sense. Why would the way the time machine works change how time travel works at all? You aren't inventing physics, you're inventing a machine that works with said physics.

The alterations, if there even were any as Matrixkid said, came from both Trunks and Cell being there (butterfly effect) but there shouldn't be any HERE just because Trunks showed up, and especially not to BEFORE he showed up. Otherwise each of all travels of Goku, Vegeta and Trunks in DBS would result in constant changes. But they didn't. They were locked to the timeline Trunks came from.

I also mentioned 16 situation in another comment, I guess on the previous page.
Oof, don't write comments when you're exhausted lol
Anyways I used words like 'math' and 'equation' because I was kinda thinking of how Einstein saw time and the universe and measured them. Surely deducing how to move through time would require an equation, physics, stuff like that. I've assumed Bulma's time machine isn't perfect, and that time travel is difficult even for her.

Speaking of the time machine, perhaps the alterations really were due to both Cell and Trunks both appearing in the past, but I suppose, theoretically, it's not impossible for Trunks's time machine to potentially cause a more drastic butterfly effect-like occurrence

Definitely could be caused by both time machines together after Trunks showed up when Cell was already there, I'm not denying that. And it also makes sense.

As for the time machine, I always imagined it that it can time travel once, and then be locked to the timeline it traveled so now it's "universe hopping" instead. Hence why Cell's machine got him exactly where he wanted to be but earlier, in the timeline where Trunks showed up before him. This would still work for the second Trunks by linking him to the changed timeline and not original, even in DBS, where he even traveled specifically to the same timeline that he was in before, but that theory was unfortunately broken by the usage of Cell's time machine afterwards.
Correct; When I mentioned 'Trunks's time machine' at the end, I meant 'alone'. My bad.
But yeah I do agree that it makes sense. Anyways, technically, the time machine can only travel once, since it requires fuel.

Basically, here's how I think it works and what happened: There are two ways of altering the past. One is to cause the timeline to splinter, technically creating a new universe where events happened differently, and the other overwrites the future you came from. Mortals like Bulma require a vessel but can figure out a way to travel to the past to change the future, but it's much much more difficult, if not impossible, to figure out how to ensure that vessel - a time machine - will be able to manipulate time in a way that can overwrite the future and keep the timeline from instead creating a new one. Traditionally, only divine beings like Gods of Destruction have the power over time that can overwrite the future, because of their greater standing from their statuses, however, items like Time Rings can protect a timeline from being overwritten, forcing the timeline to create a new splinter anyway. This is why Trunks's future still remained unchanged and still had Goku Black terrorizing Humanity, because he kept his Time Ring on, and would explain why Trunks's time machine can't change his future. It works on the same theory that gave birth to DBM, the multiverse theory.

With Cell, the reason why he was in the past was because he killed Trunks, as we know. I think the order of things goes something like this: Trunks gives Goku the medicine and returns to the past. He sees nothing has changed. At some point, Trunks kills 17 and 18 - either before or after he returns to the past again likely to make sure nothing went wrong despite his intervention. Either way, Cell sees the time machine and kills Trunks so he can travel to the past and become perfect as was his purpose. By encountering Trunks again in the past, he made Trunks aware of him, and by losing to Gohan later on, Cell doomed himself, making Trunks decide to use his newfound strength he built up by training in the past to destroy Cell after defeating 17 and 18. Doing so prevented his own death, and Cell from becoming perfect. Obviously, though, another splintering in the timeline would occur, or Cell would have ceased to exist.

I know it all gets very confusing and convoluted but an explanation is there. Nobody said it could be that simplified though lol

Oh yeah we're going too deep into this lmao, I think we should drop this before we go even more off-topic.

I'm just hoping to get an explanation for this series' timeline changes and what's going on quick, instead of a chapter later or something.

Teleported_Bread was saying: Matrixkid was saying: Teleported_Bread was saying: There was only one timeline to choose from. These changes happened because Trunks traveled to it, much like what happened when he traveled to the past to save Goku (19 and 20/Gero appearing instead of 17 and 18, 17 and 18 being stronger than they were in the future, 16 joining the Cyborgs).
Pretty sure that Trunks's time travelling itself never actually changed anything, Trunks just thought it did due to his lack of understanding of time travel. This is all speculation on my part, but 19 and Gero were so weak that even in the future timeline, the Z-Fighters were able to beat them, and because of how short lived they were, Bulma probably never thought to bring them up. They still existed in both timelines.

16 was also probably around in the future timeline, but the difference in circumstances prevented the Androids from noticing him, leaving him locked up in the pod for all those decades.
As for 17/18 getting stronger, it's debated whether they actually are weaker in the future or not. Some say that just like when they killed Future Gohan, the Androids were just holding back against Trunks to toy around with him. And by the time Trunks could destroy them, he was too strong to tell the difference. Or, we could take DBM's logic that they got weaker over time.
My assumption was that Bulma didn't fully grasp true time travel yet and wound up creating a machine that splintered the timeline rather than change the future. It's probably a difficult thing to number down even for her, and she probably had some limits since her lab and Capsule Corp had seen better days. As for 16, he was probably inadvertently destroyed when 17 and 18 turned on Gero in Trunks's timeline or was relocated and lost, but the course of the past was altered enough that 16 found himself in 17 and 18's path, which gave them the idea to wake him up.

Damian Qualshy was saying: Teleported_Bread was saying:
Damian Qualshy was saying: Okay so it's not the unseen timeline, kind of lame. I hope it will be explained how and why this timeline changed and it WON'T be "Oh it's because of Trunks like in Z" because.. that is wrong.
If you're referring to that weird anomaly that altered the timeline slightly in Z (making 17 and 18 stronger, having them appear later and with 16 instead of just themselves) when you say 'Oh it's because of Trunks like in Z', I'm quite sure it's seemingly due to the equation Trunks's time machine runs on, and not due to Trunks himself. If Bulma was able to make a true time machine, their timeline would change, not branch off. I'm sure the math was difficult even for her, or she didn't have the time and/or worried about the Cyborgs knocking at her door and ruining her intents to change the future or something.

Sorry but this makes no sense. Why would the way the time machine works change how time travel works at all? You aren't inventing physics, you're inventing a machine that works with said physics.

The alterations, if there even were any as Matrixkid said, came from both Trunks and Cell being there (butterfly effect) but there shouldn't be any HERE just because Trunks showed up, and especially not to BEFORE he showed up. Otherwise each of all travels of Goku, Vegeta and Trunks in DBS would result in constant changes. But they didn't. They were locked to the timeline Trunks came from.

I also mentioned 16 situation in another comment, I guess on the previous page.
Oof, don't write comments when you're exhausted lol
Anyways I used words like 'math' and 'equation' because I was kinda thinking of how Einstein saw time and the universe and measured them. Surely deducing how to move through time would require an equation, physics, stuff like that. I've assumed Bulma's time machine isn't perfect, and that time travel is difficult even for her.

Speaking of the time machine, perhaps the alterations really were due to both Cell and Trunks both appearing in the past, but I suppose, theoretically, it's not impossible for Trunks's time machine to potentially cause a more drastic butterfly effect-like occurrence

Definitely could be caused by both time machines together after Trunks showed up when Cell was already there, I'm not denying that. And it also makes sense.

As for the time machine, I always imagined it that it can time travel once, and then be locked to the timeline it traveled so now it's "universe hopping" instead. Hence why Cell's machine got him exactly where he wanted to be but earlier, in the timeline where Trunks showed up before him. This would still work for the second Trunks by linking him to the changed timeline and not original, even in DBS, where he even traveled specifically to the same timeline that he was in before, but that theory was unfortunately broken by the usage of Cell's time machine afterwards.

Did whis choose a timeline where trunks and mai died on purpose??

Teleported_Bread was saying: There was only one timeline to choose from. These changes happened because Trunks traveled to it, much like what happened when he traveled to the past to save Goku (19 and 20/Gero appearing instead of 17 and 18, 17 and 18 being stronger than they were in the future, 16 joining the Cyborgs).
Pretty sure that Trunks's time travelling itself never actually changed anything, Trunks just thought it did due to his lack of understanding of time travel. This is all speculation on my part, but 19 and Gero were so weak that even in the future timeline, the Z-Fighters were able to beat them, and because of how short lived they were, Bulma probably never thought to bring them up. They still existed in both timelines.

16 was also probably around in the future timeline, but the difference in circumstances prevented the Androids from noticing him, leaving him locked up in the pod for all those decades.
As for 17/18 getting stronger, it's debated whether they actually are weaker in the future or not. Some say that just like when they killed Future Gohan, the Androids were just holding back against Trunks to toy around with him. And by the time Trunks could destroy them, he was too strong to tell the difference. Or, we could take DBM's logic that they got weaker over time.

Teleported_Bread was saying:
Damian Qualshy was saying: Okay so it's not the unseen timeline, kind of lame. I hope it will be explained how and why this timeline changed and it WON'T be "Oh it's because of Trunks like in Z" because.. that is wrong.
If you're referring to that weird anomaly that altered the timeline slightly in Z (making 17 and 18 stronger, having them appear later and with 16 instead of just themselves) when you say 'Oh it's because of Trunks like in Z', I'm quite sure it's seemingly due to the equation Trunks's time machine runs on, and not due to Trunks himself. If Bulma was able to make a true time machine, their timeline would change, not branch off. I'm sure the math was difficult even for her, or she didn't have the time and/or worried about the Cyborgs knocking at her door and ruining her intents to change the future or something.

Sorry but this makes no sense. Why would the way the time machine works change how time travel works at all? You aren't inventing physics, you're inventing a machine that works with said physics.

The alterations, if there even were any as Matrixkid said, came from both Trunks and Cell being there (butterfly effect) but there shouldn't be any HERE just because Trunks showed up, and especially not to BEFORE he showed up. Otherwise each of all travels of Goku, Vegeta and Trunks in DBS would result in constant changes. But they didn't. They were locked to the timeline Trunks came from.

I also mentioned 16 situation in another comment, I guess on the previous page.

Well this is getting interesting...
Maybe Whis chose the wrong timeline.

Or maybe him warning that Beerus had unforeseen consequences.

...Well, never mind!

Guess this timeline's Trunks and Mai ain't getting revived. RIP ...But hey, it fixes the issue of there being two of them!

Okay so it's not the unseen timeline, kind of lame. I hope it will be explained how and why this timeline changed and it WON'T be "Oh it's because of Trunks like in Z" because.. that is wrong.

Damian Qualshy was saying: Oof, we're off to a rough start by breaking the established time travel rules...
That's exactly what I was saying earlier. Time travel really isn't that complicated yet they messed it up anyway, all for the sake of a story that I don't even think is good tbh.

Even if I accept Broly being alive, I just really don't get why Goku and Vegeta assumed he died and left hell. Why didn't they see or sense him at all after he survived the Stardust Breaker?

Unless he vanished and came back out of thin air, there shouldn't be any reason for him to have had all this time to reenter LSSJ.

obserwator was saying: Koshej was saying: This is literally where it ends in the anime, loool.
I even posted that video on one of the last chapters - but I see people outright ignore me for some reason.
I watched it. Didn't remember most of it, but im glad you pointed it. In fact, this is nice reenacting here.
Yeah, and the NEXT page will FINALLY go beyond the ANIME plot.
Now, THAT is what I'm sooo waiting for, lol!

kkk was saying: Kid Trunks and "kid" Mai aside, it really doesn't make sense for Future Trunks and Future Mai to get together. Future Mai should be an old woman unless the same wish was made in the future timeline to turn the Pilaf gang young as in the present timeline. For that to happen, the wish has to be made a long time ago, before the dragon balls deactivated due to Piccolo's death against the Androids, which is a bit far fetched. And Mai and Trunks being paired like in the present timeline despite the huge timeline discrepancy is very far fetched.
Kinda yeah. I'm also confused (and too lazy to check), HOW is Future Mai around Trunks's age.
I mean, it kinda implies that the de-aging wish happened in BOTH timelines, but... it's basically a huge "WHY THE HFIL IT IDI SO", lol.

@ everyone:
Does anyone else besides me think that BoruSumi is related to TrunksMai, even if in reverse?

it's cool that for the first time in DBM there is a couple shown doing things together, and not just "the warrior does something"

This comic is a fever dream, why didn't ss3 Gogeta just beat Broly when he had the chance?? Instead Janemba shows up for 2 seconds and Gogeta sat by and did nothing.

Shabby was saying: it's a reasonable question. Every other character in the last two pages is decently drawn, but Kai is "phoned in" both times.

Heck, Porunga, the most difficult of these characters to draw, looks great.
He traces, the art gets really wonky when he doesn’t have a pose to trace from.

Oh no.... bro's back!!

Damian Qualshy was saying: Oh hell naw
If Broly is classified as a victim of himself and thus revived I'm rioting.

Paaah was saying: Although now that I think about it, without a time ring now current Zamasu is dead so scratch one Zamasu but the new future Zamasu will be there so I guess he body swaps with Trunks since Trunks is the only strong fighter in the future, (which explains the Cover art).

OH my god, is this where it's going? I guess it will explain the cover indeed, and why Chibi Dam'Z and Mirai channel95 specifically stated on this page that this timeline exists only because of Beerus. However, if Zamasu in Black's body doesn't exist, the regular Future Zamasu doesn't go haywire either because he has less hatred towards mortals than the one from present timeline.

Ahh, we'll see how it goes, I'm sure I won't like the explanation but maybe the story will still be interesting.

Teleported_Bread was saying: Damian Qualshy was saying: DK00 was saying: What does he mean "accept living with out future selves" - does that mean there'd be 2 Trunks and Mais in that timeline then?

Yeah that's what happened. And was never expanded upon.
Yeah that reminds me: Knowing Whis, he probably played a small joke on Trunks and Mai by telling them that, meaning Trunks and Mai aren't literally living with doubles. I'm also sure of that cause I feel like Whis, a living Angel, letting two mortals live in a timeline where they already exist would break some sort of divine law.

Time Travel is already forbidden, it can't get any worse. And iirc Whis told Trunks to contact his (Whis') future self via Future Shin before he dies to Dabura (I guess he saves him then so Shin lives?)