This page is ridiculously good.

Looks like Vegeta's clothes are about where they were at the end of the fight, while Goku's aren't yet. So I'm gonna guess Vegeta gets the upper hand over the next couple pages, and then Goku manages to end it. 2 Odpowiedzi

Reminder to people about Rule #12 and #16. Don't engage in value judgements, be reasonable, people are allowed to criticise the scenario, and so on.

Anyway, I'm not a fan of the fight's winner being revealed like this. I'll still enjoy seeing the fight, though.

Imo, Goku saying that SSj Bra was stronger than them as a question leaves some room for doubt. Now, she presumably is stronger than them since she seems comparable to Gohan. But that statement from Goku is hardly definitive, and could easily leave room for them to be on her level with this new power.


To be fair, Goku and Vegeta trained for seven years after the Cell Games and they only barely edged out kid Gohan form for form. Hell, SSj2 Vegeta may have still been weaker than Gohan as a kid, before the Majin Boost. And the difference between SSj3 Goku and Ultimate Gohan is quite a bit higher than the difference between Cell Games Goku and Gohan in the same forms. I could see it taking them a long time to get around his level.


I mean, that's what the series told us. But in practice it showed us that there were limits for different characters. Piccolo trains non-stop and he was still weaker than the Super Saiyans in the Buu Arc. Tenshinhan trains nonstop and nothing ever shows us that he even surpassed Freeza. And tbh, it would come off as strange if Tenshinhan suddenly appeared and was stronger than SSj3 Goku, with the reason being that he constantly trains.

The Buu Arc as a whole could be seen as the characters reaching their very limits, trying more and more ridiculous things to get stronger (Super Saiyan 3, fusion, the Old Kaioshin's ritual). Maybe it's fitting that none of those things actually won in U18 though, and that it took a Genkidama (a technique) and the power of everyone to end it. Perhaps it's the same for Goku and Vegeta. Even if they're weaker than the top tier characters, that doesn't mean they couldn't defeat them. Gast beat Vegetto, after all.

@DBZFan92
I agree regarding the sensing stuff. It could still play a factor though, as it did at certain points in the series. If you aren't skilled enough, or rely too much on being able to detect people through their ki (as the characters did with Gero) it could negatively affect your ability to fight. Someone like Goku would probably be fine though, he seems to use multiple means of knowing where his opponent is. Like how he knew where Yakkon was based on the movement of air. 1 Odpowiedzi

I'm just going to remind everyone of Rule #12:

>#12. No value judgement! Provocation and/or judgement (such as "you're an idiot", "you certainly are a kid", "learn to read", "your comment is rubbish", "such a debate is useless"...) are not welcomed. You comment and debate about the comics, not about the readers and their intentions. Moreover, if a debate doesn't interest you, do not take part in it.

Now, regarding the actual page.

It makes perfect sense to me that they'd go down the route of trying to achieve something similar to Gohan. It's just like the period between Cell and Buu. Gohan's Super Saiyan 2 was the pinnacle of power at the end of the Cell Arc, and was something for Goku and Vegeta to aspire to. By the end of the Buu Arc, 'Ultimate' can act in the same way. It's just overall superior to Super Saiyan 3. It also fits in well with the Old Kaioshin saying that the Super Saiyan transformations aren't the right way of doing things.

And that seems to apply to even the first Super Saiyan form. The Old Kaioshin tells Goku not to transform into a Super Saiyan before fusing with the potara, since he would then be stuck like that forever and it would reduce their lifespan. The implication is clear, even a mastered Super Saiyan still has negative effects on the user. It's just significantly reduced.

I'll add that I appreciate the mention of the 'destructive aura'. Some people are comparing it to perfected blue, but In the original manga Ultimate Gohan doesn't have an aura while fighting. Salagir knows this (or at least, knew, it's been a while haha) since somebody actually pointed it out to him many, many years ago when Gohan first powered up on page 139. So I think it's based on that instead.

Anyway, I absolutely love this form. It's exactly what I've long thought Goku and Vegeta's endgame should be. Hell, it comes off as very Toriyama to me, even. Goku and Vegeta completely mastering their physical bodies, to the point that they don't need to transform. 1 Odpowiedzi

I've been waiting 14 years to see this.

My guess is their transformation will be a black haired form using the same principles as Gohan's mystic state. They could be drawing the power of all their super saiyan forms (+ more?) into their bases right now. I wonder if their (well, Goku's) hair will spike up, like how Gohan's did after the ritual. Maybe they'll get pupils like Super Saiyan 3, or teal coloured eyes? Will they also have no aura, like Gohan? I'm excited to see.

I think it will share some superficial similarities with Ultra Instinct Omen.

I quite like Trunks being astounded by all the strong fighters, including Dabra. Curious if we'll see him interact with the universes still to come.

Regarding Dabra's strength, it is a bit confusing. Goku and Vegeta compare him to Cell, and then teen Gohan as a SSj seems to be able to stand up to him where Kid Gohan wasn't really able to. Part of that was probably about fighting spirit admittedly.

Many people think Gohan was a SSj2 in that fight, but the art indicates the SSj state and I believe it's 'DBM canon' that he was a SSj.

I think the simplest explanation, and to agree with part of what Renathani said, is that Dabra wasn't going all out.

@ShadyDoorags
Cell said that while he was still pretending to have never faced SSj2 Gohan. I think all we can really take from that is Dabra being stronger than SSj Gohan.

Bardock and Piccolo Daimao becoming friends, and maybe it helping to turn Piccolo into less of a bad guy would be so cool.

Also, I don't know how it would happen... but the actual Raichi coming back instead of the ghost of him made by the orb would be very cool. Or maybe just a version of him coming back without hatred, somehow. If he can't come back at all, I imagine Tapion is going to be sad. 1 Odpowiedzi

@Mr Quill
If the multiverse explainer page on this site (can be found in the FAQ iirc) is still accurate, then it's not really debatable. This is fiction. So how the multiverse works is up to Salagir.

Fun page.

If the explainer on this very website is still accurate, then time travel doesn't create new universes. It only allows one to travel to the past of an identical universe, and then links those two universes (since Trunks could travel back and forth between 'his time' and 'the past').

Although Universe 18 itself tells us that future time travellers will still appear in a timeline when someone else travels even further to the past than they did.

The above is confusing so I'll elaborate. (Though universe numbers will be assumed knowledge).

Universe 15 Trunks travelled to Universe 11 (we saw a special of this) and they stopped the Androids. But when he went back to his timeline, he was killed by Universe 15 Cell. U15 Cell then went even further back into the past of U11, thus causing Universe 18.

But 'a' Future Trunks still appeared in Universe 18 (and consequently meant that U12 had to exist). Because a Future Trunks existed in U11.

Under normal circumstances, this would suggest that Buu really could travel to the day the Vargas showed up and take control. But we've known since the first chapter of DBM that Universe 1 is unique in this infinite multiverse. So there's no alternate Universe 1 to even visit Buu.

And since Universe 1 is unique, that means all 20 of the universes in the tournament are also unique. So time travel should now be impossible in them. I think. There are potentially other implications, might give them some thoughts later. 1 Odpowiedzi

I don't see Buu coming back from this. He's been 'vanquished' by science, presumably because he was so gosh darned arrogant that he didn't view the Vargas as a threat. Which in hindsight, bit silly, since they're one of the few beings that can stop him. But it's in character for Buu to ignore that.

Also, we never saw anything indicating that Buu could utilise the Varga tech. Hell, the first time he interfered he literally just burned a piece of the machine. And I think people are misunderstanding that last panel. My take on it is that, for whatever reason, only people from Universe 1 are capable of using their inter-universal tech. Not because the Vargas themselves added it in, but because it's a fundamental aspect of Universe 1.

Universe 1 is weird. Out of a (nigh?) infinite multiverse, they are the only ones to have invented the ability to freely travel through it. We've known this since page 15 of the comic. It's also the reason why there aren't alternate versions of this very tournament taking place.

Okay, I'm satisfied well enough.

It would be a very 'DBZ' thing for Buu to be temporarily stopped here, and for the others to train/prepare for his return.

On the other hand, it would be a very 'DBM' thing for Buu to be straight out defeated by science. So I'm betting that's what happened. I just hope we get a good explanation on exactly how the varga managed to do it. What was her brilliant plan that stopped Buu. Surely an aspect of it working was Buu's supreme arrogance. I mean, he considers himself an omnipotent god. But we've seen him fail multiple times; he's very much not one.

I'm curious if Salagir intends to tie the reader's potential frustration over Buu losing like this with Vegetto's own frustration. It could be a good way to make it so that despite him 'snapping' we still understand his perspective. And honestly, this tournament has been nothing but Vegetto getting screwed over constantly, haha. First by Xxi, then by Babidi (through Bra), then by Gast... now he's realised both that he was nothing against Buu, and that science of all things stopped the creature.

It's funny to contrast this with his earlier appearances. Like during the first lunch break Vegetto was assured of his victory in the tournament, even against Buu. Now it turns out that even if he didn't lose to Xxi, he would almost certainly have lost to Buu instead.

Oh, and one final thing to note. If Buu really is gone then Uub might be the greatest wielder of magic in the arena now.

Nice page. This is how I want Bra's redemption to go to be honest. Not glamorous acts of heroism, or defeating the villain. But working hard to help people, especially those she wronged.

It's possibly a reference to DBM's occasional sub-par translation. "I take note" is a minor meme in some places because of it.

Alternatively, it may just be an example of said occasional sub-par translation, haha. 1 Odpowiedzi

Bloody hell this art is beautiful.

Buu surely has a soul though, since he was reincarnated into Uub. I don't think Vegetto was lying about being able to destroy someone's soul, it feels way too much like a Chekhov's Gun to me. And it would fit with the whole 'Immortal of Pandora' storyline that was in the U16 novel way back. Regarding Buu, I think the real questions are: how would the technique function when Buu's body is split up, and what affect would it have on those inside of Buu?

I don't wanna ask Salagir cause I think it'd probably be a spoiler, haha. Even if the technique has nothing to do with Buu, we'd probably glean some info on how exactly the technique functions.

And on that note, about Bra. Maybe Vegetto's worried because the technique only works on someone you're much stronger than? Just speculating. 2 Odpowiedzi

You know, Vegetto did say he could destroy a person's soul. I wonder what effect that might have on Buu... 3 Odpowiedzi

Gotta say, that last panel is goddamn beautiful.

I think something to remember is that when Gast fought King Cold, he was definitely stronger than him but it wasn't a complete stomp. Gast was around Android 16 (edit: actually maybe Semi-Perfect Cell) level, I suppose. He's clearly become much, much stronger in the following 30-40 years. Which is fair, I reckon.

Anyway, this page is very, very cool. But I'm a little weary of how this whole 'Buu vs everyone' thing is going to play out if I'm being honest. Like, we just did something similar. So I'd say it's important that this gets distinguished from Babidi's rebellion. Maybe Vegetto eventually comes to some sort of agreement with Buu, and they basically take control of the tournament together? Cause I wouldn't mind that. The most interesting aspect of this situation is South Kaioshin's decision to straight up cancel the tournament in my opinion. It makes the status quo a bit untenable.

A very imaginative cover. The clothes-swap had me confused there for a second.

Goku looks damn cool in that outfit.

Since I'm a powerscaling nerd, I'm going to say that Goku's strength here is plausible. Tenshinhan was stronger than Piccolo Daimao after three years of training, so I don't see why Goku can't be after eight years.


None of your comments have been removed recently. 1 Odpowiedzi

Yes! I'm not a fan of the parallel tournament idea. I'd really like to see everyone try to deal with Buu instead. I hope he doesn't just immediately deflate the situation. Also where's Gast? He should probably try that move of his, even if it might not work anymore.

I think having Son Bra just be a ~good person now is probably the best course for her character, even if I don't think the story properly built up to that. But... better to gloss over it than the alternative imo. Hell, I might actually end up liking her. 1 Odpowiedzi

Look at that Varga, taking initiative.

Anyway, I presume the return of Buu is imminent.

This comment itself is breaking rule #1, but this occasionally comes up so I'll use it as an example.

We don't (or, shouldn't) delete comments for engaging with the ideas presented on the page. We do delete comments that break rule #5's "Don't post comments with content written with capital letters." Or other rules, as they come up.

To anyone who's forgotten the rules of the comment section, have a quick look now and then to remind yourself. 1 Odpowiedzi

This is certainly an interesting page. I'm going to go through it.

The first (beautifully drawn, might I add) part is clearly just the Grand Kaioshin and Zen Buu exchanging information. It's fluff, in a word. It's there to represent the large variety of things they discussed. It's decent fluff though. The towel thing is quite funny, and the whole 'inside of an atom' thing is a good stand in for 'stuff we readers can't actually comprehend'.

Onto the Grand Kaioshin's speech. It's cute that he likes Buu so much and that they became friends. And I'm getting shades of bringing the reader into it a bit, even if it's not intentional. By that I mean, for a lot of us Zen Buu is also very very interesting. The most interesting, and amusing character in this entire webcomic really. I can definitely understand why the Grand Kaioshin came to admire him, haha.

The next part of his speech is clearly referring to how strictly the Universe 1 Kaioshin governed their universe. In a universe like there's, there is no opportunity for a Zen Buu, a Son Goku, or a U9 Krillin to exist. Or hell, even a good, alternate universe Freeza. Because they killed Freeza as a child. From the Grand Kaioshin's new perspective, they're destroying the potential of the universe.

Bubble number 2 starts going into moral relativism. Or at least, questioning whether or not the Kaioshin's standards of good and bad should be applied universally. He's asking who they are to be the arbiters of right and wrong. And on a more personal level, I'd really question whether they should be. I mean, they killed a baby because of what he might become. When from my perspective at least, there were far more options than just 'kill Broly as a baby' and 'let him be raised by Paragus and turn into a monster'. I also think Buu's influence on the Grand Kaioshin is on display pretty strongly here too though. We know Buu is chaotic, doing good and evil as it pleases him. Seems the Grand Kaioshin is leaning into that idea a bit, albeit from a more detached perspective.

"I have a much larger vision than you". I think this part of the speech is very important. As a god who has lived for millions of year, the Grand Kaioshin is looking at things on a much vaster scale than we're used to. He's seeing the universe as a whole, not focusing on the 'small' stuff. And honestly? It's much more in line with how the gods we know in Dragon Ball act in the first place. The East Kaioshin of Universe 18 didn't do anything to Freeza of all people, despite him exterminating billions (perhaps trillions!) as a result of his business of taking and selling planets. All he cared about was Majin Buu because he deemed him a universal threat. Kami didn't personally stop evil on Earth either (even when he was the cause of it).

"There's good in renewal of chaos", while phrased weirdly, also emphasises Grand Kaioshin's new viewpoint. The chaos of the universe acts as a way for new things to be born, and without that chaos things will remain static and bleak. It's actually a bit similar to Beerus' view in a way, that "before creation, comes destruction."

What comes next is a bit unclear to me, but here's how I read it. Thanks to discovering multiverse travel, the Grand Kaioshin has realised that viewing even the entire universe as a whole, is moot. A single universe is nothing compared to all of creation, which can't be governed. The multiverse is by its very nature, chaotic. Their principle of intervening in the universe to keep order means nothing in the face of an infinite number of universes.

I think this page could've been worded better (which isn't new for the english version of DBM), but it's certainly a very, very interesting page. The Grand Kaioshin's new philosophy doesn't mesh well with my own, but that's fine. Neither does Goku's philosophy of 'strong guys are incredible'. As long as the story doesn't make it out that the Grand Kaioshin is 100% correct and everyone else is wrong, it's fine.


I dunno, I think it's fine if used only this once. It makes the page stand out compared to the rest of the comic. Can definitely see your view though.

My bigger issue, which I didn't mention, is how flat the Grand Kaioshin looks in the bottom right corner. It would normally be fine because the background would be similarly flat. But here it just makes him look like a cardboard cut-out.

Alright, this planet busting conversation has gone on for a bit, has gotten a bit tense, and has little connection to the page. So... we're done with it. I'll delete further comments on the subject. 1 Odpowiedzi

This is fantastic. It brings to mind something from the U4 Novel, in which the Grand Kaioshin holds a special interest for Pure Buu. He saw him as a being unique in all the universe iirc. That idea reminded me of Goku somewhat, who, in a perhaps odd way, reveres power. He was amazed at how Vegeta was better than him, even after he'd gone through all that training with King Kai. He was amazed at how ridiculously absurd Freeza's power was, and saddened when he had to kill him. And he was amazed at how incredible Pure Buu was. The Grand Kaioshin sees things a little differently I assume, probably not valuing power itself, but it feels similar.

This Grand Kaioshin might feel similar to his alternate universe counterpart. Buu is, while chaotic and capable of evil, an incredible being. And as said in this page, they have an innate connection. The thing that makes this Buu 'Buu' (to alter some words from Super Buu) is the Grand Kaioshin. He's what allowed Buu to explore things besides 'hatred and violence'. And while Super Buu's formation tipped the scales more towards Pure Buu, Grand Kaioshin is clearly still in there. Not to mention, they're both functionally the supreme gods of their respective universes.

Honestly, this relationship is a great example of some of the best DBM has to offer. The exploration (even if often a bit shallow) of different character's connections, like Gohan and Cell and South Kaioshin and Buu/Vegetto.

Now, on a completely different topic. Vegeta has assuredly killed millions, at minimum. Freeza's whole business plan involved the extermination of a planet's native population in order to sell it to the highest bidder. Vegeta has definitely committed planetary genocide many, many times. His kill count is probably in the dozens, maybe even hundreds of billions tbh. Dude was evil as all hell. I mean, the first time we saw him he was eating someone who's people he and Nappa exterminated.

Well, I was correct regarding Gast's reasoning. That's cool. And we got confirmation that the Buu in the Universe 4 corridor was sucked up as well. That does leave the question of what will happen with Uub. I'm going to reiterate what I said a while ago and suggest that Buu was able to dilate time in some way and teach Uub magic in the brief period between Uub's request and Buu being sealed. We also have the question of the meter on Buu's ball, which I think means that his return is imminent. Especially since Gast said they have to return Buu to his universe immediately...

Anyway, nice to see the difference in reaction between South and West.


No problem about the late reply. Regarding using dragon balls to undo the fusion, we know that Vegetto couldn't unfuse with the dragon balls, and that if people are absorbed by Buu for too long that they become one with him and can't be separated. Seems to be a theme that those who are merged can't unmerge. I think Gast's wish would most likely be to be able to sire offspring instead of directly unfusing. And I don't think Xxi's dragon can grant wishes like that, seems more like a knowledge dragon than anything else.

Of course, I could be wrong, haha. We'll have to wait and see. 4 Odpowiedzi

I don't think undoing fusion is something that Xxi can do. He's fought against two composite beings so far (Vegetto and Buu) and instead opted for something else to defeat them. Not to mention, Gast obviously can't unfuse himself and neither could Piccolo after merging with Kami. I doubt Namekians being separated like that is really possible.


This only works if Gast wants a challenge ;P

Unless being able to hear somehow becomes instrumental in their fight against each other, haha. 2 Odpowiedzi

Honestly, I have no issue with this course of events. Winning as efficiently as possible is Xxi's whole shtick. He's like the anti-shounen villain. And Buu is powerful, yes. But there was no guarantee he had a counter for the sealing spell (or that one even exists!), especially since he continually gagged Babidi's mouth any time he might use it. Buu's almost god-like. Almost. He wasn't as good at tracking Broly's ki as Vegetto was, he lost his cool and went on a rampage only to get contained by Gast, and he got disintegrated by Xxi in his apartment (while having no idea wtf was going on).

Big fan of how much a 'technicality' guy Xxi is displayed as here too. He's legit making his case for victory to the Vargas, and refusing to give any more information than necessary.

This does have me wondering a few things. I predicted an outcome like this, and it still leaves the question of what will happen to Uub? Has Buu taught him anything? My thinking was that Buu was able to alter Uub's perception of time so he could learn a lot in a brief period, and that Uub's ability to use some of Buu's magic (without Buu's greatest weakness at that) might be pivotal in actually defeating Xxi.

There's also the question of what they're going to do with the Buu ball. I honestly have no idea with that one, but I hope it'll come up soon. They can't just leave him in the ring after all.

I think Gast is going to give Xxi the most trouble and force him to actually fight. Gast is powerful enough to break through dimensions, has magic at his disposal, and doesn't have any obvious weaknesses (unlike Buu and #18). This is presupposing that Gast wins his next match, which I'm also predicting that he does. 3 Odpowiedzi

Hell yeah! Something I love about DBM is getting to see stuff we never did in the original manga. Buu's sealing process looks absolutely horrific, I can see why he was so afraid of it. Aside from being sealed away with no guarantee of being released, I mean. Will Buu have a counter for this? Does a counter even exist? Cause it seems like all the pieces of Buu got sucked up by the spell.

Also gotta wonder, even if Xxi manages to win the match this way, what will happen to the Buu ball? Are people going to try release him?

Many questions. I love where this is going, whether Xxi just won or if Buu has a way out of this.

Whatever Xxi is, I think it's pretty likely he has a connection to the old Kaioshin and the dragon balls. We know the old Kaioshin expressed concern about the dragon balls and how the Namekians should only use them for their own planet.

I think it'd be pretty cool to have a villain related to the origin of the dragon balls, considering the title of this franchise and fan comic.

Damn, what a good page. Chef Nappa, Trunks showing off the Bulma in him, Goten's similarity to Goku and really that entire bottom panel. Love it. This brief kitchen thing has been fun.

About the heights. There have definitely been some changes but I think they're for the better. Pan is 14 and Uub is 20. Their previous heights/designs made them look a bit too young imo.

Love seeing Uub show some initiative. And goddamn that last panel of Buu is beautiful.

Okay so brief theory time. If Uub's going to learn any substantial amount of magic, I think he'll have to experience a lot more time than is left in the tournament. So some time dilation stuff might happen. (Even so, might be shortened due to Buu vs Xxi). Buu is absolutely going to lose to Xxi I reckon, either through the use of the sealing spell or perhaps something else if Buu has a counter for that now. Buu is incredibly OP, and Xxi taking him off the board will increase tension significantly. But Uub can't be sealed away with the spell since he's human. Uub might end up acting on Buu's behalf, being a significant player against Xxi when shit hits the fan. The 'pupil fighting on behalf of the fallen master' sort of thing.

Full solidarity with our brave striking birds.

I was wondering how this lunch break would go. Might've ended up a bit repetitive if it was like the others.

Anyway, there's only 5 matches left so this is probably the last or second last lunch/dinner break they're gonna get.

Personally, I found this fight exceedingly interesting. The tactics on display throughout it were great and involved things we don’t see very often.

First off, we saw Cell attempting an attack on Vegeta while the latter was in base form. This kind of thing doesn’t usually happen, characters normally allow others to transform first. It’s nice to see. And Vegeta’s response showed off his skill very well. He was able to transform instantly and dodge Cell’s attack. That is very impressive imo. And following it up with two kienzan? Wonderful. The kienzan is criminally underused in Dragon Ball for how effective it can be, and this was an excellent use of it.

This use gets even more impressive when considering events later on in the fight. I don’t know if it was intended at all but based on what Vegeta knew about Cell this could have actually been an attempt to pinpoint Cell’s core. The piece that (the real) Cell regenerated from would be the piece containing it.

Cell making three copies of himself solidly established that he was just fucking around, something important for this fight. We also had Piccolo mentioning Cell’s core, which was helpful in reminding us both of the concept and of Cell’s limits.

Vegeta utilizing a kind of scattershot Final Flash was interesting. But… it’s also been done before. Not by Vegeta, but by Krillin. This wasn’t new. Powering up one split of the beam didn’t make this much better. There’s nothing innovative about pumping more power into your attack. Vegeta then avoiding Cell’s ki blasts and creating a dust cover to attack with is okay in concept, but not amazing. The use of a barrier by Cell was a neat idea, as it made it impossible for Vegeta (as Cell knows him) to outmaneuver Cell. Vegeta would have had to rely on pure power to survive this, something that he probably couldn’t (per Piccolo) as a mere SSJ2.

Vegeta’s reaction was very cool itself though. We initially had the question of how he survived it, along with him being a bit purposefully vague. The reveal of Vegeta having Instant Transmission could have been done better, with more emphasis placed upon it. But it’s still really quite cool and it makes sense that Vegeta would have learned how to teleport in the past 20 years considering how absurdly useful it is.

Now for a few negatives.

Starting on page 1931, we saw the first instance of what will unfortunately become a running theme. The art/paneling/character movement (I honestly don’t know the right term) made the events on the page unclear. One of the four Cells attacked Vegeta, but he didn’t get hit and the blow seemed to produce a shockwave? Did Vegeta dodge it? Did Cell just miss? Did he hit something else instead? I have no idea. This got worse with the scattershot Final Flash. The execution left me wondering what was even happening. The initial panel on page 1935 was fine, but what was going on in panels three and four? Panel three made it look like they were playing tug of war or something, while panel four looked like Cell just straight up won the beam struggle without us seeing it actually happen. And then we had Goku’s explanation of Vegeta’s ‘dust cover’ tactic that left me scratching my head. He said that “Vegeta never actually lost control of the fireballs”. But at that point, weren’t they Cell’s fireballs? Or were they Vegeta’s all along somehow? I have no idea.

We also had the art reduce the impact of the story considerably in some cases. On page 1939, Cell said “that was fun” after his clones were killed. And I can absolutely believe that Cell found playing with Vegeta to be fun. But his facial expression did not match that at all and led to a disconnect. Is Cell in control of the fight? By all rights he absolutely should be, but he doesn’t look it based on his face. Cell’s barrier also lacks the sheer ‘oomph’ that it should have had. A major contributor to this is the shape of it. As it fills up the arena, it just looks… odd. It really deflates any potential hype involved, which is a shame because I think it could have been a very cool moment.

Regarding power scaling. As I mentioned above, it was made pretty clear that Cell was fucking around through the creation of three clones. This is good, since we all know that SSJ2 Vegeta can’t stand up to Cell in power. Having the fake Cells be referred to as a kind of Cell Junior was smart since we know how the juniors scale; they’re similar in power to U13 SSJ2 Vegeta. It is absolutely believable that our Vegeta could dispose of them with some good hits.

After the barrier, we got Vegeta mentioning that he hoped Cell didn’t tire himself out. This worked well, as we actually saw Cell sweating and breathing after using his barrier. An example of the art matching what was said. Cell was wasting energy, and it made Vegeta’s eventual win more plausible while also highlighting Vegeta’s skill. The following scuffle was good to establish that Vegeta really was still below Cell’s level of power, despite his tactics. I quite liked Vegeta lying on the floor like he had a hangover after two hits from Cell. Cell’s insistence that Vegeta go to level three furthers this. He was still confident enough in his power that he wasn't too concerned if Vegeta did ascend to that level.

The final part of the fight is definitely the best. Vegeta was able to bait Cell into thinking that he was going to show off something new by trashing SSJ3. He made Cell think that they were in an intermission before the final battle. Vegeta throwing Cell a senzu bean just furthered that idea. Importantly, Vegeta also baited us, the reader, into believing what he was saying. ‘Talking is a free action’ is a very commonly used idea, and one that we would expect to apply. And a lot of us were genuinely hyped to see Vegeta's new form. This put us in the same position as Cell and enhanced the sheer shock of what Vegeta was actually planning. It was also, importantly, done in a way that made sense. Cell was caught completely off guard by a foe who drastically increased his power very quickly. And I don’t think that power is too far off from Cell’s own even at his max. I think it’s very reasonable that Vegeta could land a devastating blow.

Vegeta’s speech to Cell over the next two pages was wonderfully done. It called back to the start of the fight (“You’re very weak, as you are now”). It emphasised Vegeta’s skill. It showed how he’s now happy to admit the positive influence people like Goku and Gohan have had on him. It showed his care for his daughter. And it also showed that Vegeta is willing to do what it takes to win.

I’m going to go on a brief tangent with that last part. Imo, this is a return to Vegeta at his best. This is the Vegeta who caught and then battled Dodoria and Zarbon one on one, knowing he couldn’t reliably win against the two of them together. The Vegeta who threw sand in Zarbon’s face and who tried to blitzkrieg Recoome before the latter could properly respond to his attacks. The Vegeta who bluffed his way out of fighting Dr Gero so that he could restore the energy he lost against #19 with a senzu bean.

This is the Vegeta I want to see more of. The warrior, not the fool who puts his ‘honour’ above everything. If he really wants to have a (to an extent) honourable battle he should save that for his fight against Goku.

Unfortunately, I will say that the very end of the fight was rushed. Vegeta destroying Cell’s nucleus (or the organ his nucleus was contained in?) is fine, but we don’t even get to see what happened to Cell following that. Did he instantly die? Or did he collapse and die from damage? This should have been shown.

I think, overall, this was a great fight. My biggest issues with it involved things being unclear due to poor… paneling (?). But I value its innovation, relative uniqueness, and portrayal of Vegeta extremely highly which bumps it up considerably for me.

Feels like a confusing time skip between that first panel and the second. Does Cell just die if his core is destroyed?

Cool Vegeta though.

Honestly, really loved this fight. I'll have a more thorough look into it after we know it's over. But I am assuming it'll be done in the next 2 pages. Also, Vegeta looks really good as a SSJ3 in this style.


I think this too, but it's not that clear tbh. We don't have a good handle on Cell's biology. It would make sense if his nucleus was held within an organ. But it could easily not be.

Badass.

@Vegeta saying Goku
Honestly, I prefer if Vegeta uses Goku occasionally. It's been 20 years since the Buu Arc, I'd hope he'd be over it by now. Everyone calls him Goku. Sure it's less iconic... but Dragon Ball isn't really about being iconic. Change is a pretty fundamental aspect of the series. 1 Odpowiedzi

Goddamn, that's cool. I guess Vegeta doesn't think Cell is worth his new form? Saving it for Goku instead. And I wonder... is he hitting Cell in the nucleus? It would be the quickest way to kill him. Oh oh, also. Vegeta ate the senzu, but Cell didn't. Cell isn't even at full power, since he presumably lost at least a little bit against SSJ2 Vegeta. If this was Vegeta's strategy since the beginning... then well done Vegeta. 2 Odpowiedzi

Oh hell yes. Vegeta knows Instant Transmission. That's absolutely awesome.

Okay I actually love this. Vegeta's bringing out every tactic in the book. Not sure how he got through the barrier, but cool nonetheless. He's really reminding me of the Vegeta who bluffed his way into avoiding a fight with Dr Gero.

Now, at some point Cell should try go for a more direct approach. See how Vegeta can handle a straight up punch. Cell looks a bit tired, but even so he should realistically be able to punch through Vegeta if he wanted.

Maybe I'm the odd one out, but this fight has been great. Sure, the choreography hasn't been the clearest. But it's been filled with interesting tricks. New tricks, at that.

And we all know they're not taking this fight seriously yet. They've just been playing around. I assume Cell at least will stop playing now though.

Btw, amusingly, ki attacks have been called fireballs in the English manga. So this isn't technically new at all. 1 Odpowiedzi

@novel discussion
Play nice, don't insult each other. Or I'll have to delete your comments.
Also, Naesala, please use bolded text instead of caps for emphasis.

I am very impressed with Vegeta in this fight. He's showing off a lot of cool tactics. I reckon this scattershot Final Flash is gonna explode, killing the fake Cells. Or maybe this is just a distraction? Regardless, really looking forward to wherever this goes. 1 Odpowiedzi

Damn, Vegeta with the Kienzan right out of the gate. That's pretty cool.

Also reminder to everyone about Rules #1 and #5. 1 Odpowiedzi

Just because the saiyans can't increase their base power above the level of Freeza doesn't mean they didn't increase their base power at all. And regarding SSJ2 Vegeta being at the same level of power as he was 20 years ago... maybe, maybe not. Don't think we have confirmation in the comic on if or how much he's improved. The tier list is really old so we should probably take it with a grain of salt. 1 Odpowiedzi

I'm very doubtful that Vegeta actually has any senzu. I'm pretty sure it's just a joke.

Glad to have verbal confirmation of just how strong Cell is. Now, how will Vegeta match him? We've been waiting a long time to see what hidden power Vegeta might have, and he'll certainly need something good to have any hope of winning against Cell.

The art is also pretty damn good, despite not being on Asura's godly level. Lamentations for that final shot of Cell though; so many spots to draw!

Love Pan's comment. Really wish we'd get to see their duel when Pan's older and as strong as her grandpa.

Their determination is awesome to see. I'm glad it wasn't just one of them standing up.

Also, damn. Uub is buff as in that bottom left panel.

I really do love how wonderfully Asura draws Super Saiyan 3 Goku.

So this fight looks like it'll be wrapping up soon, one way or another. Uub is certainly near his limit in how long he can sustain this level of Kaioken. The fight has lasted 15 pages so far, if it goes until the end of the chapter it'll be 17 pages. I do honestly hope it continues on into the next chapter, even if just for a little bit. Maybe with a completely drained Uub.

I don't expect Uub's current Kaioken combo to last into the next chapter though. It could be odd to cut it off like that.

Regarding how strong Uub is here. Based on Goku's fight with Buugeta, I'd say Uub is above Super Buu level with this. Can't really get more specific than that atm. I reckon we'll have a better understanding of where Uub and Goku scale after the Vegeta vs Cell fight. 1 Odpowiedzi

Hey people. As Iron Leaf said above, please don't write in caps. If you want to emphasise something in your comment you can use stars (*) to make your writing bold or slashes to make italics.

Also, hello everyone. I'm a new mod. So... if everyone could read the rules and give me as little work as possible, that'd be great :)

Uub's pulling a Kaioken x3 Goku/buff Roshi! Or maybe beyond that, even.

Everyone's shocked faces are great. Have I mention how cool SSJ3 Goku's eyes are? Not that many characters have pupils. Uub's lower torso does look a bit odd though. It's something that's been going on in this chapter a bit. Like I get that they have their belts and pants pretty high up, but this makes it a bit much.

Oh hell yeah. Uub's bringing out his power to its utmost limit. Looks like even his shirt is being torn off, that's how you know he's being serious.

The use of 'transcended' is pretty cool. As an aside, I always thought that just as SSJ2 is an Ascended Super Saiyan, SSJ3 could be a Transcended Super Saiyan.

Maybe Uub will manage to pull the ki goo onto Goku next page.

I really hope the fight doesn't end here. They've only been going at it for 10 pages. At least bring it to the end of this chapter.

I would guess that the solid after-image only sticks if someone stays there for it to stick to.

Really like how quickly Goku adapted. And that blow on Uub looks really painful.

Hell yeah Uub! This is really impressive on his part. I'm actually loving the techniques Uub has shown himself able to pull off. Firstly there's the Kaioken of course. But he also learned Gotenks' Galactic Donut, and now Bra's gooey after-image. What else will he learn? Will he work out how to teleport, like his former incarnation did...?

I do also love how Goku's 'too predictable' is immediately contradicted. It's very funny, especially since this is legitimately surprising to even us, not just Goku.

Uub has a lot of potential to be an OP character and I really appreciate that this is being explored, even if just a little bit.

I'm enjoying Uub's trickster nature. He did something a bit similar when he tried to get Buu to play hide and seek.

@DBZFan92
I've got a bunch of arguments against the stuff you've said, particularly that the base saiyans are stronger than Piccolo. But, y'know. Might be a bit off topic. Can discuss it in the forum if you want.

Specifically about the 7 years though, I'll just say what I think. Yes SSJ Vegeta got a bunch stronger (probably ~2x). SSJ Gohan was above Cell Games Goku but I do not think it was by all that much. Maybe 50% max? Not sure. SSJ Buu Arc Goku would only be a bit stronger than Cell Games SSJ Gohan. Yes, Goku did achieve SSJ2 and SSJ3. But that's not really relevant because afawk in this fight against Uub, Goku doesn't have anything above SSJ3. So we should be looking at it form to form.

I'd still like something indicating what level this fight is at, however. It's at minimum similar to Kid Buu vs Buu Arc SSJ3 Goku.

Damn, well done Uub. I suspect the next page (maybe the one after) will have something interesting, just based on what Piccolo said. Maybe Uub's found a way to better deal with Kaioken. Or maybe he has some sort of plan.

So, about how Goku and such must have gotten so much stronger in the 20 years since Buu. I don't really see it. Mostly because in the 7 years after Cell they just didn't get all that much stronger. Cell Games SSJ2 Gohan was still the thing to beat, and Goku only managed to do so by a little bit in his Super Saiyan 2 form. Vegeta maybe didn't even achieve that.

I think the thing to ask is, are they fighting at a level of Super Buu and SSJ3 Gotenks? It's the next step up from where Goku was back in the Buu Arc. I do hope we get some commentary showing how how much Goku has improved, if at all.


Omg you're right. I don't know how I missed Goku's teleportation in the second panel. I actually love this page more now.

@DBZFan92
I emphasised that Mr Buu isn't as strong as Fat Buu more for the sake of others, not you. A lot of people do forget that they're not the same. About the base saiyans in the Buu Arc. Had some discussion on this recently on the forum, in the thread "ssj multipliers in canon and fan canons". Of course, this is more of a DBZ thing, not DBM. We already know in DBM that the base saiyans are weaker than Freeza (well, unless that's changed). Barring the obvious exceptions of course. 2 Odpowiedzi

Good on Uub for dodging that punch. It looks like it would've hurt. Now, something that's not clear to me. Did Goku also dodge Uub's kick? Did he teleport around it?

Also, my god this art continues to be spectacular. So excited for the next page.

Re: Uub's strength
Goku said Uub was perfectly at Buu's level with a well kept Kaioken. Piccolo said Uub had the advantage at the start of his fight against Buu, where Uub was only using his 'regular Kaioken'. With his maximum Kaioken, he completely obliterated Buu bar a small hidden piece. It's difficult to maintain that level of Kaioken for Uub, of course. But I think it's very plausible that max Kaioken Uub is already well above Buu Arc SSJ3 Goku.

Anyway, what we know at minimum:
Uub Max Kaioken>Uub Kaioken>Fat Buu
SSJ3 Goku>Fat Buu

I think this page might indicate that Goku has Uub beat in raw power. But it's also a single page. I don't think we can take it in isolation without seeing how the rest of the fight might unfold.

@DBZFan92
I think DBM's interpretation of the fight between Goku and Uub at the tournament is that it isn't a fight between two 'SSJ3' level opponents. Which I think is reasonable, as Uub can't properly use his power. Goku could be happy about Uub because he can sense what he'll become. Besides, there's ambiguous phrasing about how strong everyone is anyway at that point. Goku says Pan 'probably' won't win. He also says if they get to the final round, they'd let Hercule win. And the line after that makes it sound like Goku thinks it could either be someone from Goku's group, Buu, or Uub. Which would make me think that SSJ2 (or SSJ3...) Goku thinks he might be able to beat Mr (not Fat!) Buu. 1 Odpowiedzi

This is truly fantastic. The conveyance of power is done incredibly well. I am so looking forward to what will happen next. Will Uub go for another strike? Will Goku pull something off?

I honestly just can't get over this art. Goku looks absolutely glorious! His hair, his pose, his aura showing off his power! And Uub! My god is it a good show of speed. It's like his aura can barely keep up with him!

Damn am I excited for this fight. Based on Asura's past and current work, I can't not expect this to be a visual masterpiece.

God damn does Goku look good here!

It would be funny if Goku stayed in just Super Saiyan and Uub just punched right through him.

More seriously, this is smart of Uub. Kaioken at any level is still more draining than Super Saiyan and probably super saiyan 2. Super Saiyan 3 is the only form that compares. Forcing Goku into using it makes sense.

It'll be interesting to see how Uub with his maximum Kaioken compares. Uub with a more regular Kaioken was still capable of dunking on Fat Buu and at his max his Kamehameha completely obliterated all of Buu that it hit. That's pretty impressive. How long he'll be able to keep that level of Kaioken will be an important part of this fight.

In the twitch stream, Salagir was asked if Uub could become as strong as Kid Buu without kaioken one day. Here was his response:
"For me humans are quite limited. So no one is able to go to the level of Kid Buu with more or less Super Saiyan 3. Without cheating, well the saiyans are cheating by using super saiyan, and the kaioken is cheating for the humans. But Uub is different so we will see."

I think Uub's existence is itself 'cheating' (sorta like Son Bra), so I don't think there should be too much of an issue with him being above Freeza without transforming. 2 Odpowiedzi

So we're not gonna get a ring of 10,000x earth's gravity? That's a shame. I think it'd be funny if they had to transform before entering the ring just to prevent themselves from getting crushed. ...well actually maybe that'd only affect Goku and Vegeta, since they're the weakest competitors in base. Anyway, we'll always have that minicomic about it.

Also, I love how tall Uub is! He's still a little short, but it's nice to see him as a fully grown 20 year old!

We're finally at the quarter finals! It only took a thousand pages of the main story, haha.

Now about the matches. I think Goku will win against Uub. I could see him giving up but I think it's more likely he wants them both to go all out and see who will be the victor. And it's not like Uub's progress has to stop here. Based on what Salagir said in one of the streams, Uub could become as strong as Kid Buu in base one day. Imagine how powerful he'd be with kaioken then! I do hope Uub plays an important role in the fight against Xxi or Vegetto or whatever. And I hope this match has some great character showings for Goku. He's been sorta ignored.

I reckon Vegeta will win against Cell. Cell is far more powerful than him as a SSJ2 so he'd have to pull out all the stops. And man, I want to see how Cell would react to being beaten by Vegeta. Of course, this would lead into a Goku vs Vegeta rematch... which we will either see because it's fated, or we won't see because it was fated. I'm not that interested in a Goku vs Cell fight either.

Buu vs Xxi is gonna be a whooole thing. Will Xxi do what we expect and use Babidi's sealing spell? Will Buu have a way around that? Maybe Xxi will use Gast's technique and trap Buu. I'm not sure Buu's found a way out of that yet. Anyway, I'm thinking Xxi will kill Buu to emphasise just how dangerous he is. Buu is practically a god, having Xxi defeat him will raise the tension to absurd levels.

Gast vs Bra. I'm betting on Gast winning. We basically saw Bra winning her fight in the Majin Rebellion. We saw everything she could do. Gast clearly still has surprises in store for us. As to how it goes, I could see Gast trying to build Bra back up again into a better person. She's been broken down by her actions and now there's the question of what comes next for her. How does she become more like the Bra of Universe 18? I think Gast will help show her the way to that path. An important part of this could be imparting the wish of Universe 19 on to Gast.

The FAQ does say that there are an infinite number of universes. It also says that there are identical universes.

Anyway, page 15 says that the Vargas discovered multiverse travel in only one universe. How you get something only happening once in a sea of infinity, dunno. Maybe it'll be some surprisingly deep part of the plot, maybe it's just so the Multiverse tournament itself doesn't have infinite copies and divergences. But it does make this tournament itself unbelievably unique.

@Silentstorm
Good point, forgot about that. Time machines are much more limited of course.

Fun page.

Random thought that I occasionally have. The discovery of multiversal travel by the Vargas happened in only one universe. So every universe that is in this tournament is completely unique in the multiverse. This also poses a unique threat, and might be why the Xxi in the tournament could be so dangerous. 2 Odpowiedzi

Great Gohan fanservice, heh. Love it.

Some constructive criticism for Asura. Pan's fist in the first panel blends in too well with Bra in the second panel. The lines match up too closely. It almost looks like they're part of the same image and that Bra has a very strange back.

What? Goku absolutely gave his all against Cell. He literally said so. It just wasn't anywhere near enough.
1 Odpowiedzi

I absolutely love this page. Gohan is still being forgiving, of course. He's like Goku in that regard. If someone stops being evil he's willing to be nice. He did the same thing to Vegeta after the Saiyan and Namek Arc and Vegeta wasn't even good yet.

Pan seems scarred. And even Videl doesn't seem as forgiving as her husband. I don't see this page suggesting that anybody's responses, Gohan, Videl, and Pan's, aren't perfectly valid. And finally, after all this time, we actually get to see Bra have to face the consequences of her own actions. Pan doesn't forgive her, their relationship has been severely (possibly irreparably? Doubt it though, cause it's Dragon Ball) damaged.

(Btw, it should be "Lots of time." not "Lot's of time.")

About the Cell Jrs. Gohan is probably viewing them as extensions of Cell himself. That they helped out in the battle against Bra because Cell told them to, but that they'd just as easily kill people he cares about if Cell ordered it. I think Gohan is, to a degree, wrong in this regard. We know from the vision that Goku will get along with one of the Cell Jrs, so they probably do have the ability to do their own thing independent of Cell.

As to Cell himself, Gohan is right. Cell, of his own free will, killed (or seemed to kill) people Gohan loves. Gohan might also be considering how much simpler this whole thing could've been if Cell was on their side from the very beginning. Neither Gohans would've been trapped and the strongest evil warrior on the field would've been Ginyu or SSj2 Kakarotto. Both inferior to the Cell Jrs. They very well might have been able to dispose of Babidi well before he was able to take over Bra. Hell, from Gohan's perspective, Cell might have been able to even just tell the organisers about Babidi's plans before they even happened.

I've never thought about that. It's really nice.

Another cool thing that could come of Vegeta beating Cell is it showing that he's now superior to Gohan.

Ginyu looks enormous compared to his 'sons' and I love it. Anyway, good page. It covers a lot of ground in brief snippets.

Seeing Ginyu bow like that is nice. I like the concept of a Frost Demon acting subservient to the Kaioshins, even if it's surely not completely genuine. The last 3 panels are a good (and funny) visual showing of what the Dai Kaioshin said. Sure, strong lizard man might be a cool guy who wouldn't do what he did if it wasn't for Babidi, but he's still pretty shady.

So good to be back. I'm glad there are still problems from Babidi's Revolt, even if we will be moving into the next tournament match.

I am so looking forward to seeing more of Goku. There's been a lack of him in this comic and I hope his match against Uub can show the mature individual that Toriyama tried to portray him as in the Buu Arc. As well as showing how impressive Goku has become in the 20 years since we've seen him have a real fight.

Also, I wonder if the ring will be 10,000 times Earth's gravity for this round. Because that's a lot. Goku would weigh like... 700 tonnes.

Gohan is such a shiny gyarados.

Nice U18 cover.

Oh hell yeah. So we do get to see the heroes win. That's awesome. I'm gonna guess the point of divergence that made Universe 20 will be Uub not stopping Broly from killing Buu. Which would be really cool, because it'd mean that without Uub they would've lost.

Loved these two specials, looking forward to seeing how it's finished. 1 Odpowiedzi

Was this page edited so Gohan doesn't have a clearly visible aura? Cause I'm pretty sure he used to. Him not having an aura is more accurate to the manga, so it'd be a good edit.

This is really cool. I always love when Dragon Ball stuff adds in a sprinkle of unusual science. Like how Vegetto and Buu saw Broly perfectly still because teleportation adapts the user's speed to whatever they're teleporting to.

Though I don't expect it to be all that accurate. Like, with time dilation for example. We already know that we have to ignore some things, what with ftl spaceships existing in dragon ball.

Hell yeah, this is awesome. Great concept, great art.

Ok, I am loving Uub here. It reminds me a bit of something Master Roshi said at the beginning of Goku and Krillin's training.

"One does not study martial arts in order to win a fight or have girls say "ooo ♥, you're so strong!!" One masters those arts for health in mind and body, for the ability to live one's life as courageously, uniquely, and energetically as one wishes! But! If there are any who seek to terrorize you or any other decent people with undeserved power, you must defeat such enemies with one mighty blast!!"

Damn, love to see Uub putting his all in such a desperate situation. And he's only 12 years old!

This special has made me think of something. Why didn't Kibitoshin consider teleporting Buu to a black hole? They would both die, sure. But as a last resort it would definitely be worth it. 1 Odpowiedzi

Loving this special. Awesome job on it Rogeru. 1 Odpowiedzi

Nice page. Cool to see the Gohan shine through. And I assume this Buu is able to use the Kaioshin teleportation because of Buu's ability to copy techniques?

So is Broly already stronger than Buu, or is he just trying to destroy the planet?

Ok, this is really awesome. I think this Buu should be quite a bit above Buuhan. Buuhan is basically just Super Buu + Gohan. While this is Gohan + Gotenks (which alone should already put him above Buuhan level) + Goku + others. I don't think this should put the new Buu at Buu arc SSj Vegetto level but it's probably getting sorta close.

Well done to whoever came up with this idea. It's a lot safer than fusion since there's no chance to screw it up and it gives them all of Buu's hax abilities.

Also, Broly looks really well drawn in that third panel.

Didn't expect this, interested to see where this plan goes.


Gohan not having his bang isn't a goof. 'Ultimate' Gohan isn't a transformation in DBM, it's his base form. In fact, the only thing it's a transformation in is the Dragon Ball Super anime. It isn't even a transformation in the Dragon Ball Super manga.

It's not a transformation in the original manga either.

Great page. Love how serious Goku is here.

So, is Gohan going to be fighting in his boxers the whole time? Because I am here for that. 1 Odpowiedzi

So, Goku feels Broly and that he's struck. He tries to teleport away from the blast, but it's affecting the whole planet. This seems reasonable to me. I imagine Goku is still alive since he seems to have thought that Goten would be able to protect Chichi.

Goku could definitely have made better decisions here but I don't think it's contrived. Certainly less contrived than Goku not saving Gohan/Goten/Trunks when Kid Buu blew up the Earth.

Throughout the entire Majin rebellion I was hoping for a shirtless Gohan. And only now, in a special after it's over, does it finally happen.

Good job Rogeru for giving us what Asura wouldn't. 3 Odpowiedzi

We're only 2 pages in, but I'm really loving this special. I know it's Universe 20 but it's basically also showing Universe 18 at this point. And it's really great to see our heroes after EoZ. Like really, Uub training with Goten and Trunks! That's just awesome. And they're able to do stuff in a way that isn't as restricted by the tournament structure (with so, so many characters) in the main comic. Hoping to see more interactions between our characters, even after Broly returns.

I'm honestly expecting this special to be more like U4 Buu's than the Cell or Bojack ones. In Buu's we actually got a story, while in the other two it really was just a slaughterfest. This seems to be building things up, which it almost has to since it isn't just a small change in an already existing story. This is Broly's third coming, not him suddenly winning a fight we've already seen.

Also, Goten really does look like Yamcha. So did Gohan at various points too. It'd almost be enough to make one suspicious if it wasn't for a certain golden haired transformation.

This page would be great if it was in a different story. Like, honestly, I really like the idea of Vegetto, Gotenks, and Son Bra having this discussion. And Son Bra's final statement that she doesn't care about being stronger than Vegetto anymore, but that she wants to be stronger than Bra is abso-fucking-lutely great. On it's own.

I suppose what I'm saying is the story didn't earn this moment. It didn't properly deal with the fallout of Son Bra's actions. Alternatively, we could've toned Son Bra down so we wouldn't hate her so much (I mean jeez, she still bisected Gohan...). As it is right now, it makes this page feel... silly.

I recall suspecting at some point that the story would continue on as if Bra had this unforeseen goodness hidden away in her that we never really got to see in-comic. And it seems to be doing so. At this point, I hope we just move on with a less hateable Son Bra. It's not great, but I think it's the best that can realistically be hoped for.

Oh man, I am not a fan of this page and where it seems to be going.

So... is anyone comforting U16 Pan? We, uhh, didn't really spend much time there. I've said it before, but I don't really like how this has shifted to focus so much on Vegetto. It'd have been better imo if we had more pages just on Son Bra and her actions, and specifically treat this as her rock bottom through which she has to fight her way back up from. Like, by having Gast acknowledge that she did horrible things, but that she doesn't have to be that kind of person anymore if she's willing to put in the work. I suppose we could still see some of that though. 1 Odpowiedzi

Have read none of the comments on this page, but here's my thoughts.

I really don't like this. We should be focusing on the consequences of Bra being the bad guy here, but instead we're focusing on Vegetto as the bad guy. We've completely skipped over some of the reactions of anger we should've gotten about Son Bra. If this was an enraged SSj2 U16 Pan doing this to Bra, expressing just how incredibly angry and heart broken she is over her aunt killing her father? That would work. Son Bra would still be clearly in the wrong, even if she admitted that it was all her fault and that she deserved it.

But no, we have Vegetto being angry and physically assaulting his daughter. And the reality is that father-daughter dynamics involve a degree of power imbalance that make this exchange frankly uncomfortable. This isn't even a calm, angry Vegetto that is doing what he sadly thinks is best by killing his own daughter. This is a Vegetto that hasn't been able to contain his anger.

Why(!) is this what is being emphasised right now?! Will we even get the reactions of the others to Bra's actions at this point?!

God, Ashanark was right and I hate it because it means the story is worse than it could have been. I just want this section to be over at this point, which is a real shame because it had so much promise as a concept. 1 Odpowiedzi

@Dr Raichi
>Her Gohan hit her with a max power kamehameha that she partly escaped by teleporting. And still she went for Piccolo's senzu bean so either she's a whiny bitch or Gohan serieusly injured her.
She didn't partly escape. To quote Gohan, "She was definitely hit. Then she teleported... there." As far as I can tell, she was burned by the attack but otherwise looked similar to before. And I really don't think it should be surprising that Bra is, to use your words, 'a whiny bitch', so...

>And teleporting is not an indication of strength. You are literally travelling at a speed you can't possibly achieve on your own.
When did I say teleportation is an indication of strength?

>So yeah, Gohan can hit her and by your own argument, she's stronger than Buuhan, in ssj2 because she's stronger than ss1 Vegito in ssj2 who toyed with Buuhan in ssj1?
Gohan could only hit her by appearing literally out of thin air from the middle of space. If there's any instance where a character should be caught off guard (which does occur in DBZ, just not to the ridiculous extent as it does in Super), it's this. If you have an issue with the damage the punch did, I'll note that it was his 'most powerful punch' and that it seemed to be charged up with ki or something.

>So Gohan can hit Bra who' stronger than buuhan, logic follows he can also hit buuhan. Which doesn't really make sense since Buuhan has his own Gohan, but following your logic this is the conclusion we arrive at.
Gohan, on his own, would not be able to handle Buuhan at all. He might be able to survive for a bit, but the fight would basically follow the Buutenks vs Gohan fight. Do I think Gohan would be able to hit a distracted, unsuspecting Buuhan level fighter with what is functionally an instant ki punch? Yes. 1 Odpowiedzi