TF? is that U18 Bra? She looks like U16 Bra.

Yes! I'm not a fan of the parallel tournament idea. I'd really like to see everyone try to deal with Buu instead. I hope he doesn't just immediately deflate the situation. Also where's Gast? He should probably try that move of his, even if it might not work anymore.

I think having Son Bra just be a ~good person now is probably the best course for her character, even if I don't think the story properly built up to that. But... better to gloss over it than the alternative imo. Hell, I might actually end up liking her.

People complaining about the possibility of the student surpassing the master here is confusing to me. If Uub wins, that's... exactly what Goku himself would want. Having someone defeat him only makes him more excited to fight that person, and Uub learning new techniques from a multiversal tournament is probably part of the reason Goku brought him along in the first place. What is this tournament for their universe other than a safe chance for growth?

If Uub does manage to win this, it would also follow a trend set by Salagir earlier on in the narrative — Vegito lost to his opponent too, despite being the favorite to win the whole thing... but Bra goes onward, as the inheritor of her father's mantle whether he approves of her or not. If Uub wins here, that sets us up for a chance at seeing something magnificent: a healthier Bra who could find a healthy rival in Uub, who has inherited his master's countenance.

Goku/Vegeta and Vegito are meant to contrast each other narratively here. Goku and Vegeta are healthy mentors to their kids and students. They are more aware of what those students want, and what those students can handle.

The issue with fusion is that it follows a Shonen philosophy that we've seen in other media before: power does not make you better, it amplifies who you already are. Vegito is massively more powerful than Goku and Vegeta, but his amplified power brings with it the amplification of their flaws. Restlessness, irritability, obsession... things that were honed out over a decade of peace have only had time to grow within him.

He passed those traits onto his student, Bra, and we saw how that turned out. There's a reason a lot of readers don't like Bra — she isn't meant to start out likeable and what happened to her isn't meant to make her immediately liked.

Instead, we're supposed to see her failings as an extension of Vegito's failings... and realize that, yes, Bra is sort of a terrible person... but she's a terrible person who would not be so terrible without her father bearing down on her. Without his influence, she would be, quite literally, a different person... and maybe learning that he isn't the end-all-be-all of power is enough to help her overcome that and work toward a better personhood in her own universe.

Artiel was saying: People complaining about the possibility of the student surpassing the master here is confusing to me. If Uub wins, that's... exactly what Goku himself would want. Having someone defeat him only makes him more excited to fight that person, and Uub learning new techniques from a multiversal tournament is probably part of the reason Goku brought him along in the first place. What is this tournament for their universe other than a safe chance for growth?

If Uub does manage to win this, it would also follow a trend set by Salagir earlier on in the narrative — Vegito lost to his opponent too, despite being the favorite to win the whole thing... but Bra goes onward, as the inheritor of her father's mantle whether he approves of her or not. If Uub wins here, that sets us up for a chance at seeing something magnificent: a healthier Bra who could find a healthy rival in Uub, who has inherited his master's countenance.

Goku/Vegeta and Vegito are meant to contrast each other narratively here. Goku and Vegeta are healthy mentors to their kids and students. They are more aware of what those students want, and what those students can handle.

The issue with fusion is that it follows a Shonen philosophy that we've seen in other media before: power does not make you better, it amplifies who you already are. Vegito is massively more powerful than Goku and Vegeta, but his amplified power brings with it the amplification of their flaws. Restlessness, irritability, obsession... things that were honed out over a decade of peace have only had time to grow within him.

He passed those traits onto his student, Bra, and we saw how that turned out. There's a reason a lot of readers don't like Bra — she isn't meant to start out likeable and what happened to her isn't meant to make her immediately liked.

Instead, we're supposed to see her failings as an extension of Vegito's failings... and realize that, yes, Bra is sort of a terrible person... but she's a terrible person who would not be so terrible without her father bearing down on her. Without his influence, she would be, quite literally, a different person... and maybe learning that he isn't the end-all-be-all of power is enough to help her overcome that and work toward a better personhood in her own universe.
well finally, a sensible reaction to Bra and Vegetto and the whole arc of Dragon Ball Multiverse
thank you for this post :)

Skillet91 was saying: And I believe that SSJ 3 can have its duration lengthened with enough training. Because if Super Saiyan can be mastered to the point of almost treating it like base, why can’t Super Saiyan 3 be trained to significantly reduce it’s flaws as well?

SSJ 3 has the potential to be just as useful as the other forms, unfortunately it was never given enough time to do so in-canon.
I always figured the Super Saiyan forms were less like a magical transformation and much more like a physical one. When I say that, I mean that we can look at the process of transforming similarly to weight lifting. Sure, if you push your maximum weight limit, you can usually get another couple of pounds on the end before you hurt yourself, but you can't keep that up for more than one or two lifts, and similarly when a new SS form is achieved they lack the stamina and control to keep the form up for more than a couple of minutes. By reducing the weight and increasing the reps, you get accustomed to the weight, and in time are able to manage it more easily as well as shoot further beyond to new maximums that you couldn't before, and likewise if they are able to train specifically in the form for long periods, pushing that limit to a breaking point, they can normalize the tension and stress it puts on their bodies and negate some of the power-burning aspects. The problem is that it's not linear growth, it's closer to exponential growth. Looking at the SS forms in terms of weight lifting, you could say it's something like this:
Base = 50 lbs max
SS1 = 100 lbs max
SS2 = 300 lbs max
SS3 = 1200 lbs max

Now, one can reasonably expect to normalize lifting 100 lbs, so perfecting SS1 is not a stretch. Lifting 300 lbs in the first place is impressive, but normalizing that is something you only achieve if you're a pro, or a weight lifting junkie (which comparatively speaking, the saiyans are, so this fits). At 1200 lbs, we're talking about breaking world records, no amount of training is going to allow you to normalize that because the body is hitting a hard limit at this point.

When GT introduce SS4, it just felt weird because there didn't seem to be much of a noticeable change in terms of power from SS3 other than to say that SS4 could beat enemies that SS3 couldn't. There just wasn't a show of force or a feat that was able to say "Oh, we're talking about something THAT much bigger than the previous form." Super introduced the god forms, and gave us an idea of the gap by having Beerus softly tap SS3 Goku into unconsciousness, but then failed to give us much of a grasp of the gap between SSG and SSB, especially since we never really got anything to nail down how SSG really compared to SS3, but at that point we were talking about fighting literal gods, so the idea of being able to capture it in terms of real world feats of strength and training just not longer felt plausible. Such to say that in the real world, for a human, going beyond the 1200 lbs range wouldn't be possible without some kind of super-soldier augmentations (bio-chemical, mechanical, etc).

So while I do feel like DBZ/DBM/DBS are going to allow Goku to push through his limits because "Goku," I feel like the logic of "train harder and dig deeper" ran out after achieving SS3, much less perfecting it. If "train harder and dig deeper" was as easy as Goku made it look, he'd already have mastered SS13 by the time Pan was born, because he already saw 3 limit breaking transformations that nobody knew were possible, so he'd have no reason to think that they couldn't just keep doing it (and to some degree he would not be wrong...).

Ven was saying:

KidGoku was saying:
I hate to bring Vegeta up

If that were true, you people would stop. Lo and behold, here we are once again. Ugh...

Don't lump me in the same category as them. You know nothing about me or how I think. The fact that you attack me the way you do goes to show how insecure you are.


Skillet91 was saying: KidGoku was saying: Skillet91 was saying: The one I’m most interested in is Vegeta VS Cell. A more mature, measured, seemingly reserved Vegeta having a round 2 with a matured-as-well Cell. Let’s see if Vegeta does it right this time.

Bra seems like she’s still “bothered” by what just happened. (I get it just happened and her family in the tournament seems to have mixed feelings about her now) Well, it beats that spoiled bitch attitude she’s been sporting for, like, ages by now. A nice change of page.

She’ll never be forgiven and/or redeemed in my opinion though.

Exactly, "your" opinion and I hate to bring Vegeta up when you all are so willing to throw Bra under the bus because she's a "terrible person" (which I agree). Well If she can't be forgiven for the terrible things she has done, then why should Vegeta be forgiven? Think about that for a minute. What's worse is that you all think she's a Mary Sue when there is a literal Mary Sue in this comic and ya'll still get mad. Come at me any way you want, but I choose to sse the bigger picture and see both sides.

It's always important to see the good in people no matter how bad or evil they are. If we don't then who else will?

Vegeta was raised to be a dominating, smug, haughty asshole in a crappy environment by Frieza no less (Before that, it was by his old man who was the king of barbaric space warrior monkeys who love to fight). Bra didn’t have “such luxury”. She’s raised in mostly positive, caring environment with a family that loves her. Vegeta was introduced as a bad guy who owned that title and it took him many years to change and become the man he is now. Bra gets a pass “kinda, due to her age”, but at the same time she was raised to be a good guy by caring people so..... nah. Practically every time Vegeta was becoming too arrogant for his own good, he met some painful consequences for it. Hell, Vegeta died twice due to his questionable actions, with the second one (explosive suicide) for trying to absolve some of his many, many sins, knowing he’s going to hell. And never made excuses for it. Bra never faced the consequences, especially the painful ones. And IF she did, she never learned anything from them or how she’s to blame for the consequences. In fact, the story bends over backwards to “try” to make her look good. Vegeta may not deserve redemption, but compared to Bra he deserves the heavens and the earth. Bra is a horribly written character and the story usually turns to shit when she’s the focus.

I probably have more to say, but I hate typing on mobile and I’m not gonna say what hasn’t been said before on the many cons of Bra. And besides the “comparing Bra to Vegeta argument” as a trite, shitty argument that many times has been proven on Vegeta’s favor. Read what I said above as an example. Anyone that agrees, please take my place on the rebuttals.

What sucks is Bra could of been a good character, at least, if handled right. Oh well.

Thank You for proving my point. See there was a reason I brought Vegeta up and you pretty much said everything I wanted to hear. If Vegeta can be a better person than he was, then Bra can be as well.

*What sucks is Bra could of been a good character, at least, if handled right. Oh well.*

And she still can be. Even hated people can be saved. But it's their choice whether they want to be saved or not.

Skillet91 was saying: The one I’m most interested in is Vegeta VS Cell. A more mature, measured, seemingly reserved Vegeta having a round 2 with a matured-as-well Cell. Let’s see if Vegeta does it right this time.

Bra seems like she’s still “bothered” by what just happened. (I get it just happened and her family in the tournament seems to have mixed feelings about her now) Well, it beats that spoiled bitch attitude she’s been sporting for, like, ages by now. A nice change of page.

She’ll never be forgiven and/or redeemed in my opinion though.

Exactly, "your" opinion and I hate to bring Vegeta up when you all are so willing to throw Bra under the bus because she's a "terrible person" (which I agree). Well If she can't be forgiven for the terrible things she has done, then why should Vegeta be forgiven? Think about that for a minute. What's worse is that you all think she's a Mary Sue when there is a literal Mary Sue in this comic and ya'll still get mad. Come at me any way you want, but I choose to sse the bigger picture and see both sides.

It's always important to see the good in people no matter how bad or evil they are. If we don't then who else will?

Damn the story gets interesting as soon as we go away from Bra.

Congrats Salagir, you've ruined every chance of Bra's development and also the chances tô people starting tô like your Mary sue. Her redemption came só easily its disgusting, It is as If people around her jus forgot that she murdered every one in the arena.

And then Gast bent Vegetto over his lap and spanked him. After the tournament ends Vegetto returns to his universe where he finds bulma cheating on him with yamacha.

Bruh, does Gotenks not realize that no one from their Universe besides Vegito could take out Bra if she went out of control, considering she killed Ultimate Gohan?

Not to mention, I'm not feeling that much for her in general. I understand she was brainwashed and shouldn't be entirely blamed or killed for what happened. Vegito is a shit dad and really put more stock in her being powerful than her emotional health. The fact her brother was a better dad than him should say everything.

I want to sympathize with her and understand, but the story makes it so fucking hard considering we literally just saw her kill Goten and doom an entire galaxy when she was just a child a chapter ago. There's almost no nuance; she's either kinda an asshole or a raging murderous asshole. If you want to write a character the readers can feel conflicted about, then balance out their qualities.

DB Super Broly is an example. The entire first half of the movie was him being relatively normal and an nice guy. When he goes berserk, we're meant to feel conflicted about him and his rage and don't want to see him be put down. With Bra, there are barely any of those qualities. She doesn't have enough of the the charisma or positive qualities to back up being an asshole. So we're not gonna feel much sympathy when she is an asshole controlled by someone else.


Obviously, I don't want Vegito to kill her and he shouldn't. However, the authors didn't do a good enough job in making the readers feel sympathetic to Bra's case. I'm not gonna completely write her off and hope this is a turning point for her character just like it was for Vegeta.

Now I wonder if people will call Bra a Mary Sue...Aren't these supposed to be perfect and loved by everyone?

EXE was saying: I love how everyone went from hating the comic the last few pages to loving it with this.
It's good and all to discuss and talk, but people bitch so much. Looking back to the beginning of the Majin Bra comics, people were already saying things like "FINALLY CELL IS GONNA KILL BRA OMG TIME TO MOVE ON!" but when you read it from beginning to end, it's a proper story.
Ya'll need to just sit back and enjoy the story.

It's harder to approach the comic with that mindset due to the page by page schedule making everything much slower paced. Every page is essentially a whole new episode.

Not saying your wrong, of course.

I must say, they ruin Vegetto's character in this story. They made him a villian

Classy_Skeleton was saying: J.I.L was saying: Also, how in the world can they tell which is there father?
They probably can't, but if I saw my dad laying on the floor beaten like that, even if they are from another universe, I would be in a very similar position as Pan is right now.

She's looking at the wrong Gohan. Its U16 Gohan that's dead. U16 Pan has long sleeves on. That is U18 Pan looking at U16 Gohan