ZenBuu was saying: Most people here seem to really not paying attention reading this comic xD

Sure it has it's flaws, I'm not going to deny that. But c'mon guys. A little bit more reading comprehension...

No, it should be up to the artist to make this more clear and prevent confusion. It's their job to prevent these type of snafus.

Anyway, half of this comic is people charging up for attacks that won't actually do anything! There is a greater plan than this, right?

You found all the guys! Congrats :)

BangBang was saying: The name Yamash reminds me of Yamask. Did he catch one?
I don't actually know much about Pokemons, especially the english names ;p

It was always crazy to me how the "landing" of space capsules work :)
Also, page two, already toilet humor.

son buuwoku was saying: DarkBuster was saying: What the hell is this webcomic's dread fascination with Bojack?

Dude has had twice as many specials as everybody else, had a whole side arc with the random girls from his universe (who we still ironically know nothing about, by the way, despite the absurd amount of coverage this universe gets), and... I don't see why. They're literally the most generic "bad guy" characters dragonball ever put out, the specials have done nothing to make anyone but Bujin more interesting, the side plot went nowhere and had nothing to do with the actual narrative of DBM... Even Bujin's "character development" is totally worthless because he just immediately dies anyway.

And now they're gone, and not coming back. Yet here we are again. Why are we wasting so much time with pointless, empty characters that go nowhere, years after their barely-extant story ended? Surely there are better subjects for a special? U13 beating frieza, Gast's brushes with cell and buu, Kakarot getting immortality and killing Kami, U9 (at least the interesting parts of it, not just "world tournament without goku") is still criminally unexplored...

But nope. Bojack again. Look at him, being evil! Killing a random lackey before he kills a totally random OC frost demon who's equally undercooked and unimportant. Yaaaaaaaay.



Lmao bro relax. If you don't like the special just come back in a month or so. It's not nice of you to call some one else's work "pointless".I It's okay to have a negative opinion but be nice. Do you make your own webcomics?
That is a lazy counterargument, and everybody knows it. You don't have to be a master chef to know whether a dish tastes good or not. Criticism is always fair, this doesn't need to be a "compliments only" zone. I'm criticizing a story, not the person behind it.

But, if it means that much to you, yes, I am a writer. As a writer, I can tell you that critique is part and parcel, and my critique is that this story wastes a lot of time and energy focusing on story elements that need it least, and does not dedicate nearly enough attention to the areas that matter.

DestroyerOfVegetards was saying: DarkBuster was saying: What the hell is this webcomic's dread fascination with Bojack?

Dude has had twice as many specials as everybody else, had a whole side arc with the random girls from his universe (who we still ironically know nothing about, by the way, despite the absurd amount of coverage this universe gets), and... I don't see why. They're literally the most generic "bad guy" characters dragonball ever put out, the specials have done nothing to make anyone but Bujin more interesting, the side plot went nowhere and had nothing to do with the actual narrative of DBM... Even Bujin's "character development" is totally worthless because he just immediately dies anyway.

And now they're gone, and not coming back. Yet here we are again. Why are we wasting so much time with pointless, empty characters that go nowhere, years after their barely-extant story ended? Surely there are better subjects for a special? U13 beating frieza, Gast's brushes with cell and buu, Kakarot getting immortality and killing Kami, U9 (at least the interesting parts of it, not just "world tournament without goku") is still criminally unexplored...

But nope. Bojack again. Look at him, being evil! Killing a random lackey before he kills a totally random OC frost demon who's equally undercooked and unimportant. Yaaaaaaaay.

Come on! It's actually interesting to see interactions between villains. Let's see how Bojack gang and the Frost demons face each other. We don't have enough villain-villain interactions in DBZ or DBS.
It would be if Bojack had any personality beyond "generically mean and evil." But he doesn't. And considering he's completely unchanged by the time of the tournament, we know he's not gonna develop one, either. He has less personality than a Saturday Morning Cartoon villain, and is one curly mustache away from tying women to train tracks and waiting for Superman to swoop in.

If these specials actually explored bojack, made him a more fleshed out character, that would at least be interesting. But they don't. So far we know:

1. He broke out of a laboratory prison
2. He kills people because he's evil and feels like it.

... and that's basically it. At least Freiza, Cell, Kakarot, zen buu, ranching, etc all have distinct personalities and motivations.

How is bojack gonna interact with the frost demon? Probably by smirking, calling him some vulgar names, they'll scuffle a bit, bojack will kill him. Maybe with some help from Bujin's magic, after which he'll say "mwahahaha! that will be useful!" or something similar. The end. Riveting.

son buuwoku was saying: DarkBuster was saying: What the hell is this webcomic's dread fascination with Bojack?

Dude has had twice as many specials as everybody else, had a whole side arc with the random girls from his universe (who we still ironically know nothing about, by the way, despite the absurd amount of coverage this universe gets), and... I don't see why. They're literally the most generic "bad guy" characters dragonball ever put out, the specials have done nothing to make anyone but Bujin more interesting, the side plot went nowhere and had nothing to do with the actual narrative of DBM... Even Bujin's "character development" is totally worthless because he just immediately dies anyway.

And now they're gone, and not coming back. Yet here we are again. Why are we wasting so much time with pointless, empty characters that go nowhere, years after their barely-extant story ended? Surely there are better subjects for a special? U13 beating frieza, Gast's brushes with cell and buu, Kakarot getting immortality and killing Kami, U9 (at least the interesting parts of it, not just "world tournament without goku") is still criminally unexplored...

But nope. Bojack again. Look at him, being evil! Killing a random lackey before he kills a totally random OC frost demon who's equally undercooked and unimportant. Yaaaaaaaay.



Lmao bro relax. If you don't like the special just come back in a month or so. It's not nice of you to call some one else's work "pointless".I It's okay to have a negative opinion but be nice. Do you make your own webcomics?
That is a lazy counterargument, and everybody knows it. You don't have to be a master chef to know whether a dish tastes good or not. Criticism is always fair, this doesn't need to be a "compliments only" zone. I'm criticizing a story, not the person behind it.

But, if it means that much to you, yes, I am a writer. As a writer, I can tell you that critique is part and parcel, and my critique is that this story wastes a lot of time and energy focusing on story elements that need it least, and does not dedicate nearly enough attention to the areas that matter.

DestroyerOfVegetards was saying: DarkBuster was saying: What the hell is this webcomic's dread fascination with Bojack?

Dude has had twice as many specials as everybody else, had a whole side arc with the random girls from his universe (who we still ironically know nothing about, by the way, despite the absurd amount of coverage this universe gets), and... I don't see why. They're literally the most generic "bad guy" characters dragonball ever put out, the specials have done nothing to make anyone but Bujin more interesting, the side plot went nowhere and had nothing to do with the actual narrative of DBM... Even Bujin's "character development" is totally worthless because he just immediately dies anyway.

And now they're gone, and not coming back. Yet here we are again. Why are we wasting so much time with pointless, empty characters that go nowhere, years after their barely-extant story ended? Surely there are better subjects for a special? U13 beating frieza, Gast's brushes with cell and buu, Kakarot getting immortality and killing Kami, U9 (at least the interesting parts of it, not just "world tournament without goku") is still criminally unexplored...

But nope. Bojack again. Look at him, being evil! Killing a random lackey before he kills a totally random OC frost demon who's equally undercooked and unimportant. Yaaaaaaaay.

Come on! It's actually interesting to see interactions between villains. Let's see how Bojack gang and the Frost demons face each other. We don't have enough villain-villain interactions in DBZ or DBS.
It would be if Bojack had any personality beyond "generically mean and evil." But he doesn't. And considering he's completely unchanged by the time of the tournament, we know he's not gonna develop one, either. He has less personality than a Saturday Morning Cartoon villain, and is one curly mustache away from tying women to train tracks and waiting for Superman to swoop in.

If these specials actually explored bojack, made him a more fleshed out character, that would at least be interesting. But they don't. So far we know:

1. He broke out of a laboratory prison
2. He kills people because he's evil and feels like it.

... and that's basically it. At least Freiza, Cell, Kakarot, zen buu, ranching, etc all have distinct personalities and motivations.

How is bojack gonna interact with the frost demon? Probably by smirking, calling him some vulgar names, they'll scuffle a bit, bojack will kill him. Maybe with some help from Bujin's magic, after which he'll say "mwahahaha! that will be useful!" or something similar. The end. Riveting.

son buuwoku was saying: DarkBuster was saying: What the hell is this webcomic's dread fascination with Bojack?

Dude has had twice as many specials as everybody else, had a whole side arc with the random girls from his universe (who we still ironically know nothing about, by the way, despite the absurd amount of coverage this universe gets), and... I don't see why. They're literally the most generic "bad guy" characters dragonball ever put out, the specials have done nothing to make anyone but Bujin more interesting, the side plot went nowhere and had nothing to do with the actual narrative of DBM... Even Bujin's "character development" is totally worthless because he just immediately dies anyway.

And now they're gone, and not coming back. Yet here we are again. Why are we wasting so much time with pointless, empty characters that go nowhere, years after their barely-extant story ended? Surely there are better subjects for a special? U13 beating frieza, Gast's brushes with cell and buu, Kakarot getting immortality and killing Kami, U9 (at least the interesting parts of it, not just "world tournament without goku") is still criminally unexplored...

But nope. Bojack again. Look at him, being evil! Killing a random lackey before he kills a totally random OC frost demon who's equally undercooked and unimportant. Yaaaaaaaay.



Lmao bro relax. If you don't like the special just come back in a month or so. It's not nice of you to call some one else's work "pointless".I It's okay to have a negative opinion but be nice. Do you make your own webcomics?
That is a lazy counterargument, and everybody knows it. You don't have to be a master chef to know whether a dish tastes good or not. Criticism is always fair, this doesn't need to be a "compliments only" zone. I'm criticizing a story, not the person behind it.

But, if it means that much to you, yes, I am a writer. As a writer, I can tell you that critique is part and parcel, and my critique is that this story wastes a lot of time and energy focusing on story elements that need it least, and does not dedicate nearly enough attention to the areas that matter.

DestroyerOfVegetards was saying: DarkBuster was saying: What the hell is this webcomic's dread fascination with Bojack?

Dude has had twice as many specials as everybody else, had a whole side arc with the random girls from his universe (who we still ironically know nothing about, by the way, despite the absurd amount of coverage this universe gets), and... I don't see why. They're literally the most generic "bad guy" characters dragonball ever put out, the specials have done nothing to make anyone but Bujin more interesting, the side plot went nowhere and had nothing to do with the actual narrative of DBM... Even Bujin's "character development" is totally worthless because he just immediately dies anyway.

And now they're gone, and not coming back. Yet here we are again. Why are we wasting so much time with pointless, empty characters that go nowhere, years after their barely-extant story ended? Surely there are better subjects for a special? U13 beating frieza, Gast's brushes with cell and buu, Kakarot getting immortality and killing Kami, U9 (at least the interesting parts of it, not just "world tournament without goku") is still criminally unexplored...

But nope. Bojack again. Look at him, being evil! Killing a random lackey before he kills a totally random OC frost demon who's equally undercooked and unimportant. Yaaaaaaaay.

Come on! It's actually interesting to see interactions between villains. Let's see how Bojack gang and the Frost demons face each other. We don't have enough villain-villain interactions in DBZ or DBS.
It would be if Bojack had any personality beyond "generically mean and evil." But he doesn't. And considering he's completely unchanged by the time of the tournament, we know he's not gonna develop one, either. He has less personality than a Saturday Morning Cartoon villain, and is one curly mustache away from tying women to train tracks and waiting for Superman to swoop in.

If these specials actually explored bojack, made him a more fleshed out character, that would at least be interesting. But they don't. So far we know:

1. He broke out of a laboratory prison
2. He kills people because he's evil and feels like it.

... and that's basically it. At least Freiza, Cell, Kakarot, zen buu, ranching, etc all have distinct personalities and motivations.

How is bojack gonna interact with the frost demon? Probably by smirking, calling him some vulgar names, they'll scuffle a bit, bojack will kill him. Maybe with some help from Bujin's magic, after which he'll say "mwahahaha! that will be useful!" or something similar. The end. Riveting.

JustSaiyan was saying: Somebody quantify what "almost all "of infinity is for me please.
I can give an example. "Almost all numbers are not 1"

I can’t believe the Goku vs Vegeta debate is back, but I have a psychological compulsion to have the last word, so I’ll say this.

In DBM canon, Goku and Vegeta have now fought four times onscreen. Their record is 2-1-1, two wins for Vegeta (the fight when they met and the fight in the Time Chamber), one for Goku (just now), and one inconclusive (the fight in the Buu Saga).

Majin Vegeta vs Goku wasn’t a win for Vegeta just because Goku was on the ground at the end. They both agreed to postpone the fight. In the situation that they agreed to postpone the fight and Vegeta is *lying,* or if he still bore ill will to Goku, or was a dishonorable fighter and would use such an opportunity to win against Goku, then yes, that would have been Goku’s loss, and probably his death. However, Goku isn’t a complete idiot, and he knows Vegeta pretty well. He dropped his guard because he recognized that Vegeta wasn’t lying about the truce and wasn’t the type to scrape out a free win.

Fight records aren’t based on any objective measure of “which of the two was on the ground in the end.” Vegeta didn’t get his second win on Goku by kicking him at Piccolo while he was having a heart attack. The two agreed on the bounds of a match, and then that match ended with neither of them defeated. That’s inconclusive, not a draw, and you don’t need to invoke SS3 to say it wasn’t a win for Vegeta. Hell, if you told Vegeta he has a 3-1 record against Goku, he’d be offended that you felt the need to stuff his record with something that obviously wasn’t a fight.

Anyway all that being said, while Vegeta’s record against Goku is still positive, it’s clear that overall, he’s not Goku’s superior. Vegeta knows completely well that at almost any given moment aside from literally like two days since he’s been living on Earth, if Goku got serious he could crush him. He literally said so in the Time Chamber sparring match, that he wasn’t satisfied with his win because he knew Goku was holding back. He also said as much during the Buu fight in canon, when he admitted Goku was just his superior in battle.

So what does this mean for our specific battle? Well not much in terms of record, this really is Goku’s first onscreen win. But psychologically, it means a lot. For years, Vegeta has known full well that if Goku wanted, he could reveal his full power and crush him in an instant. SS1 after he landed on earth, Grade 4 after he emerged from the Time Chamber, SS2 before Vegeta accepted Babidi’s power (I personally believe Vegeta had SS2, but since the fight was so even even with Babidi’s power, I think without it Vegeta would be toast), SS3 for most of the post-Z era.

In this fight, Vegeta finally saw the depths of Goku, he touched the bottom, he experienced his absolute maximum, and he matched it. Just as unambiguous as Goku’s win is the fact that this fight could have gone either way. If Goku is still the martial superior, it is by a tiny fraction, not nearly substantial enough to make for a clear winner, and it’s equally possible that Goku isn’t the superior, and instead they’re even, or Vegeta is a tiny bit stronger.

One way or another, while this is a loss for Vegeta, it’s the first time in the 28 years they’ve known each other that Goku has actually and genuinely shown him every ounce of his power, every drop of energy inside of him. For Goku, of course, this was a great fight that pushed him to his limits with someone he’s always been rooting for, but for Vegeta it’s something much more meaningful. 28 years of rage, frustration, pride, and dissatisfaction released through his fists. The catharsis of letting go of an inferiority complex older than his son. No more does he have to admit to himself, “if Kakarot used his full power, this would end in a second,” no more will he fear being a jobber (because Toriyama didn’t write this.)

It’s over. They’re even. He’s just as good as you, Kakarot.

This is an amazing fight full of twists and turns, new and fun applications of energy manipulation and a transformation that has been forshadowed for ages, while also making sense with the canon. And the art is better than it has ever been, every chapter it gets even more mindblowing.
I really don't get why people are complaining about it taking too long, they are just impatient to see who wins. I get that you have been waiting for a long time, I myself have been reading for 10 years but the end result is what really matters. Take as much time as you need, DBM team. You are doing amazing.

Paradise Lost was saying: I hope they incorporate GT and Super this time around
I can assure you 1000% that this will never happen here on the DBM main comic! And that is a good thing in my opinion.

Can we take a moment to appreciate DBM? No, seriously! Goku vs Vegeta is the ground where DBZ fundamentals were established. Salagir gets so much hateful comments about his writing ability and how he and DBM are just being carried by great artists. I made some hateful comments too in the Bra rampage. So now I want to take this opportunity to give my modest but very well deserved recognition to Salagir and the DBM team.

Salagir understands DBZ quite well and better than Toriyama himself. He used previous concepts like Namekian merging and made an entire plotline around it. He kept SSJ forms simple and nerfed SSJ3 for this very reason. He found a better explanation for Vegetto’s de-merging inside Buu. He used Kaioken, a fan favorite, as a means to keep humans (and Uub) somewhat relevant, and because it was completely unused for no reason in the main series. He was clever enough to not use multipliers because it’s healthier for the balancing of power tiers. This way we know Maximum Kaioken Uub is SSJ3 tier. What’s the multiplier? Doesn’t matter! For all this evidence I’m 100% sure Salagir came with the idea of this Ultimate Form (or whatever it’s called) himself and not after watching DB Super. The idea behind the form is much more organic than DB Super. It’s just Mystic Gohan tier without the old kai’s ritual. SIMPLE. Just like when Gohan unlocked SSJ2 and they followed up after.

I repeat, Salagir understands DBZ better than Toriyama. And you might say “Uh? So what? That’s no big deal”. But the reality is that DBM isn’t like any other fanfic where they commit the capital sin of shonen: “the power creep”. Salagir knows power creep is a problem so he quickly nerfs or deus-exes things that may get out of hand. That’s why Broly and Buu had to leave. So why introduce them in the first place? you say. Because he also wants to have fun with his project and go wild telling some “what if” scenarios. But ultimately he has a bigger plot that wants to get done with as little power creep as possible. Want evidence? Look no further than DB AF, the progenitor of DB fanfics. SSJ 5 was the big Hook! Why? Because even Toyotarou himself struggles to create a proper setting without power creep. What’s different is that this new form isn’t beyond Vegetto, Bra or Ghast. And yet it’s still a novelty. Salagir found a hole for creativity without disrupting all power balance. Look at Big Baddie XXI. He’s not super powerful as far as we’ve seen, he just uses clever tactics to exploit weaknesses.

“The official release” in a couple of years made Red SSJ, then Blue, then Rose, then UI Omen, then mastered UI, Ultra Ego, Orange Piccolo, Beast Gohan. So many colors and so little meaning!. They actively made their previous forms obsolete because they are the real amateurs who only know to escalate via power creep every arc in a cash grabbing rampage releasing as many hair colors as they can to sell toys completely disregarding any power balancing. And don’t even get me started with artstyle. Modern anime artstyle just doesn’t fit DB. Period.

I want to finish by stating it’s no accident we all spent more than a decade getting involved reading this fanfic. DBM has quality and thought behind its plotlines. Sure, it has some flaws. But flawed as it is, it kept along with other fan projects the DBZ flame alive for more than a decade when the only thing we got was that awful 2008 special. If it wasn’t for passionate projects like this one who knows if we’d had a running “official release” series today.

So thank you Salagir, Asura, Gogeta Jr. and all DBM team.

Asturios was saying: Can we take a moment to appreciate DBM? No, seriously! Goku vs Vegeta is the ground where DBZ fundamentals were established. Salagir gets so much hateful comments about his writing ability and how he and DBM are just being carried by great artists. I made some hateful comments too in the Bra rampage. So now I want to take this opportunity to give my modest but very well deserved recognition to Salagir and the DBM team.

Salagir understands DBZ quite well and better than Toriyama himself. He used previous concepts like Namekian merging and made an entire plotline around it. He kept SSJ forms simple and nerfed SSJ3 for this very reason. He found a better explanation for Vegetto’s de-merging inside Buu. He used Kaioken, a fan favorite, as a means to keep humans (and Uub) somewhat relevant, and because it was completely unused for no reason in the main series. He was clever enough to not use multipliers because it’s healthier for the balancing of power tiers. This way we know Maximum Kaioken Uub is SSJ3 tier. What’s the multiplier? Doesn’t matter! For all this evidence I’m 100% sure Salagir came with the idea of this Ultimate Form (or whatever it’s called) himself and not after watching DB Super. The idea behind the form is much more organic than DB Super. It’s just Mystic Gohan tier without the old kai’s ritual. SIMPLE. Just like when Gohan unlocked SSJ2 and they followed up after.

I repeat, Salagir understands DBZ better than Toriyama. And you might say “Uh? So what? That’s no big deal”. But the reality is that DBM isn’t like any other fanfic where they commit the capital sin of shonen: “the power creep”. Salagir knows power creep is a problem so he quickly nerfs or deus-exes things that may get out of hand. That’s why Broly and Buu had to leave. So why introduce them in the first place? you say. Because he also wants to have fun with his project and go wild telling some “what if” scenarios. But ultimately he has a bigger plot that wants to get done with as little power creep as possible. Want evidence? Look no further than DB AF, the progenitor of DB fanfics. SSJ 5 was the big Hook! Why? Because even Toyotarou himself struggles to create a proper setting without power creep. What’s different is that this new form isn’t beyond Vegetto, Bra or Ghast. And yet it’s still a novelty. Salagir found a hole for creativity without disrupting all power balance. Look at Big Baddie XXI. He’s not super powerful as far as we’ve seen, he just uses clever tactics to exploit weaknesses.

“The official release” in a couple of years made Red SSJ, then Blue, then Rose, then UI Omen, then mastered UI, Ultra Ego, Orange Piccolo, Beast Gohan. So many colors and so little meaning!. They actively made their previous forms obsolete because they are the real amateurs who only know to escalate via power creep every arc in a cash grabbing rampage releasing as many hair colors as they can to sell toys completely disregarding any power balancing. And don’t even get me started with artstyle. Modern anime artstyle just doesn’t fit DB. Period.

I want to finish by stating it’s no accident we all spent more than a decade getting involved reading this fanfic. DBM has quality and thought behind its plotlines. Sure, it has some flaws. But flawed as it is, it kept along with other fan projects the DBZ flame alive for more than a decade when the only thing we got was that awful 2008 special. If it wasn’t for passionate projects like this one who knows if we’d had a running “official release” series today.

So thank you Salagir, Asura, Gogeta Jr. and all DBM team.

The whole "the art is the only good thing" complaint is so dumb. Yeah, Asura's art is consistently amazing and the writing often has big issues, especially from infinte Budoten onwards, but so many people wouldn't be here if only the art was good. Most people enjoy the cool concept of differing universes and takes on these characters. And while not all characters are winners (Broly, Bojack, Son Bra, Supreme Kaioshin, for example suck), DBM handles characters pretty well (when they aren't mouthpieces to defend Bra).

Goku is great, he's charming, a bit stupid but also with greater wisdom and maturity than he was as a kid or young man. This is some of the best characterization he's been given for a long time. Gohan is a mature leader who tries to avoid conflict as much as possible but knows when he needs to step up. Vegeta is truly at peace with himself and while I feel the story sometimes bends over to praise him it usually feels earned. As goofy as he can be Goten proves to be a brave and selfless man who would charge head first into trouble to help people. Videl is handled fairly well and I appreciate that she's more than just a house wife here.

And it improves a lot of characters. Cell is a far more interesting scheming character. Giving him beef with Gohan while also forcing him to not be the strongest and improve allows him to be a far more innovative fighter while still maintaining his flaws of arrogance and recklessness. He might be my favorite character here or at least one of them. Uub and Pan are both really likeable and charming, and the story serves as a coming of age for them. Buu is a great force of chaos and can be hilarious, although he does feel too overpowered at times. They made fucking Raichi one of the best and most complex characters. Or the humans. Yamcha is amazing here, same with Videl and Tenshinhan.

And one thing I think worth praising is the DBM HAS HUMOR. I feel like most db fan media is always just edgy transformation fests, but Multiverse always makes room for more classic dragonball humor. There's an entire chapter of Gotenks and 18 fighting other famous Toriyama gag characters. Toriyama himself appears and quits because he can't easily beat his opponent, it's great. Even at it's most edgy phase, the majin arc, they make room for jokes like Gohan, Cell, and Piccolo having no idea what to do for team moves and Phipsil and Nedwock's reaction.

I also like that (outside of the Broly special which I choose to ignore or even consider contradictory), the story doesn't feel the need to make the characters too bloated in strength. DB has had characters that can destroy planets since at least the Freeza arc, so I'm glad they don't have any "Vegetto can swat galaxies away" crap that makes the gap between characters feel even crazier. Same with not giving too many transformations. Instead characters like Gast and XXI employ more creative ways to defeat opponents. Strategy plays at least some part here which is nice.

I have a shit ton of issues with DBM but I still really like it and consider it better than most DB content. I appreciate all the work they put in for it especially since it's non profit.

iron leaf was saying: Hopefully it's not just DBM's version of Ultra Instinct. Meh, I always thought UI was just a bad Kenbun-shoku no Haki knockoff from One Piece anyway.


Ha, I was just thinking about the approach though. With an opponent with no-bullshit attitude, that wouldn't work.

Dr. Raichi: "Huh, he's reducing his power level. Why is he doing that? Anyway, I better kill him quickly before he does anything else."
Basically almost any DB Villain: "Oh, I'm going to stand back and watch what he's up to."


However, it makes sense why Goku couldn't use it on Uub. Even though Uub might have allowed it if Goku asked for it, they settled on an explosive SSJ3 vs Kaioken fight instead. Therefore, after Uub's Transcended Kaioken, Goku didn't have time to properly play his own Trump card. Cell on the other hand probably wouldn't have let it happen if he realized how serious the situation was. Moreover, Cell is not worth it for Vegeta to show his true new power. It's a matter of respect. Vegeta has nothing but contempt for his U10 alter ego, Kakarot and Cell, which is why he virtually mocked all of them.


It's more like the seikeikun from history strongest deciple Kenichi. It even has the shrinking of your protective aura.

Did anyone else hear Faulkner's Perfect Cell theme when seeing Cell's feet? Just me? Fair enough

Why is everyone assuming that the planet has changed. It's quite obvious, the girls simply took them on purpose to a different planet. Probably to either trick them or have an advantage in the upcoming fight (or both).

MetaKrule was saying: God ultimate gohan mad charge at broly and broly wasn't even aware of gohan and it still barely did any damage to broly
That wasn't ultimate gohan. Ultimate gohan has a strand of hair that goes down his face. That's just base gohan.

I can understand the notion that Bra crying is an attempt to make us sympathize with her, and hate Vegito, but please consider the alternative: If Bra didn't cry, acknowledge her crimes that she committed on Babidi's behalf, it would be the exact same thing as the special. Once again, she is committing mass murder and not even acknowledging it. No growth.

Sympathetic or not, Bra's reaction to her misdeeds is very much realistic. She sliced her best friend in half. She stabbed U19 in the back after promising to advocate for them. She blew up Piccolo. She murdered a God who completely pegged her shortcomings. She did all of this in service of someone else, who she was unable to resist until the last second. If she didn't cry after coming to that realization, it would be much worse than what we have gotten here. It would basically be a repeat of the special. A special that we just got so recently. What would be the point of that and what would it do for Bra as a character or a person at all?

This scene is a direct foil to the end of the previous special. When Vegito tells Bra off for blowing up a solar system, and tells her that he'll have to kill her if she continues to be a threat, what does she say after he leaves? That it's not her fault. She makes excuses.

In this page, when Vegito asks Bra if she is responsible for what happened, what does she say right to his face? That it's her fault. In the first page, she calls herself a murderer. Unlike before, Bra has actually learned something. U18 Bra and the Grand Supreme Kai hit the nail right on the head when they called her out, and she finally realizes it.

I'd rather have Bra be portrayed as seemingly "sympathetic" after coming to this realization, than the alternative where she says "It's not my fault", after already getting a special where she says that. In one case, she's portrayed sympathetically, but also seems to have hopefully grown. In another case, sure, we get some catharsis for Vegito kicking her, but she never grows. She remains static. Bra will never be a likeable character if she remains static. Saying that it's her fault is fundamentally required for her to grow. Actually crying is required to show the impact that her realization has had on her.

This also doesn't mean that Vegito himself is unsympathetic in what he is doing right now. The story has given us every reason in the world to sympathize with Vegito. The fact that Bra has had this huge revelation does nothing to eliminate that. It doesn't mean that Vegito punishing Bra isn't sympathetic. We already know why Vegito is harsh on Bra. He made a promise to the Kaioshins and he doesn't want his own daughter to put that promise in danger. The story has painted Vegito as a Well Intentioned Extremist from the start. Bra, on the other hand, is just now seemingly coming around.

Despite how menacing and terrifying Vegito is in this scene, and despite how Bra is crying, vulnerable, and finally admitting guilt for what she is done, VEGITO IS STILL THE MORE SYMPATHETIC OF THE TWO. Is Vegito perfect? Hell no. Is he a bad guy for attacking Bra after what she has just admitted to? Hell no.

It's also important to remember, that Vegito never punishes Bra until both of them knows what she has done.

In the special, Vegito asks Bra if she remembers what happened. Bra does not. Vegito tells her. Then he punishes her. He makes sure Bra knows what she is being punished for, and why she is being punished for it. Regardless of whether or not Bra accepts it. He attacks Bra to knock her out of her berserk state. Then he scolds her. Harsh, but sympathetic. Vegito is not Goku and he is certainly not Gohan, but here, he is not a bad person.

In this chapter, Vegito approaches Bra and angrily asks her to confirm what Buu has just shown everyone. He doesn't punish Bra until after she admits to her crimes. Rather than take Buu's word for it, Vegito waits for his daughter to confess. Then he punishes her, because by her own admission, it is Bra's fault what happened to Gohan, Phipsil, and many others.

Yes, Vegito acknowledges that Bra was mind controlled. Yes, this means that she isn't entirely at fault. But Vegito knows that the spell can be resisted. Vegeta and Cell are both proof. By not being able to fight off Babidi until the very end, Bra has given into her dark side AGAIN. And this has, much like before, resulted in countless deaths.

In both circumstances, Vegito only punishes Bra after three conditions are met:

Condition One: Bra does something horrible.

Condition Two: Vegito has confirmation of Bra's crimes.

Condition Three: Bra is aware of what she did regardless of whether or not she accepted it.

Bra crying, expressing regret, and admitting to her crimes is important, and needed to happen. This doesn't necessarily mean that Vegito is being demonized for punishing her. The story has done so much to explain Vegito's side of the story. Vegito never jumps to conclusions, only punishing Bra when both of them are perfectly aware of what happened.

This is a morally Gray moment. Vegito's portrayal, and Bra's portrayal, are of equal importance.

freaky was saying: Twocatclaw was saying: Oh yeah, Vegetto is totally pissed, RIP Bra, you kinda brought it on yourself though.

Also LOL at Vegeta realizing that Kakarotto has attained Super Saiyan 2

it was all vagitos fault it happened dude

Once again, you've proven your stupidity. You can't even spell Vegito/Vegetto right.

How is it his fault? Are you just trollin? Because that's what it looks like.

Your nickel was saying: Kinda convenient but ok

Yeah but at least the plot is moving along and we're not going overly fast. So I Prefer it this way.



P.S Just notice that they haven't forgotten about U9, that's cool I guess...

Shabby was saying: These are also hands that have handled her gently, or sparred lightly, and she's realizing how dangerous they can be.
Perfectly put. This lends well to her understanding/acknowledging the responsibility behind the destructive power she was born with and is a beautiful parallel with a certain you know who.

It's almost like the timing of this special was no accident.

Classy_Skeleton was saying: misi was saying:
If anything, it is an awesome thing. I can't stand blue... :P
If I may ask, what is your issue with the SSB and SSG forms? I have my own personal issues with Blue, but I'm rather curious as to what your issue is with the two of them.

For me the problem with SSB and SSG is it's narratively useless. Every Saiyajin's transformations talk about something.
The Triple Kaïoken

The Kaioken is the first step in understanding the different transformations of the Saïyans.
It is about a gain of energy, a discharge of adrenaline and the more one goes up in the quantity of power "requested" the more the reaction for the body is violent. In the fight against Vegeta, Goku goes beyond his limits by summoning the Triple Kaioken. Her body is raw, the reddened skin tears in places, and every vein and streak in her muscles becomes apparent.
This technique makes the body monstrous and injures its user ...

The Super Saiyan is logic after that because Kaioken explaint that too much power is dangerous for the body.
In addition, during his fight, Freeza explains that he must transform in order to be able to control his insane energy.
It is the same with the Saiyen. For my part, I consider that from a certain point in the training, they "unlock" an additional power pack.
But this one is so huge that it would destroy the body of its host then in order to be able to control it, the Saiyans pass to a higher state.
At this level the warrior's muscles swell slightly and are more drawn. We have here an ideal fighter who is as imposing as he is mobile...

In the Cell saga, we discover that the transformation into a super Saiyan has several levels of power. The concern is that the body is only increasing the volume of the muscles to be able to channel this power. Here it is underlined by the fact that they are more apparent, drawn and inflated. The fighter will even grow a little. This capacity of the body to inflate poses a real problem because it arrives at a time when the mass taken is so enormous that it decreases the speed and the dexterity of the fighter.
A body absolutely not made for the fight which returns to that of the extreme bodybuilders who do not shape themselves to fight.
(For my part, I consider that Broly is stuck in this transformation which is similar to that of Hulk.)

While he can't move because he has too big muscles, the body of the Saïyen is transformed to be able to manage all this energy.
The body is refined, it is even thinner than the normal Super Saiyan but much more traced, fast and dangerous. Lightning appears and the hairstyle becomes electric.
All the faults of the previous transformations disappear to leave room for a body perfectly chiseled for combat and wielding monstrously great power. The SSJ2.

Once you get to ssj2, the body doesn't need to transform further.
So the only thing he can have is extra strength gain that he can control. The ssj3 is kind of an ultimate Kaïoken for super saïyen except that the body which it obtains during the second transformation is sufficiently resistant only to take the discharge of energy and to have as a consequence only extreme fatigue and a limited time of use.

Personally, I like the SSJ4 transformation fort DBGT because it makes perfect sense in the various transformations that already exist and in addition really original in its design.
Once one has mastered the ultimate level of transformations, there remains a final stage for the Saïyen to reach.
Control of the energy developed during transformation into an ozaru.
What should be remembered is that during this transformation, the power is multiplied by 10.
The Saïyen 4 offers a warrior body that allows 10X control of the considerable power developed during the Saïyen 3.
It's an ultimate form that no longer needs an extra stage.
Here the body is reminiscent of that of the gorilla and even if the muscle mass gain is greater than in ssj2, speed and dexterity are not less reduced.

And that's why SSB and SSG are useless. It talk about nothing. the SSG says it's news because is faster and thiner but SSJ2 does it too. All the transformation before explore all the particularities of a good fighter. It no need more, certainly if it's for only making "more powerful" :)

Bra having an emotional reaction to what's going on doesn't mean she's being portrayed as the victim here. DBZ relished in exploring the villains' emotional relationships with their roles in the story. One of the more subtle themes (at least, subtle by DBZ standards) underwriting the Namek Saga was how all living beings, no matter how cosmically grand and evil they may seem, share in the terror and vulnerability that comes from facing death. When Frieza was cut in half, sobbing and begging for help because he was cold and scared, that might have been a little more relatable than any other moment we see Frieza, but the narrative wasn't pardoning him for his crimes or saying he didn't deserve to be where he was.

That said, I like Bra's characterization. This actually makes sense to me in retrospect; this isn't supposed to be a start of darkness, it was this moment of her powers causing a catastrophe and Vegetto threatening her that made her so scared of her own power, resulting in the comic Bra we see, whose actions are often dictated by guilt and who has a complex about controlling her anger. Honestly on rereading I don't even doubt that this was planned from the start - the Bra we see is the one who's had time to both improve herself (not enough, but she's obviously better in-comic than in this flashback) and to start hating herself for her lack of control. See her using Super Saiyan 2 in a moment of panic and hurting Vegetto and Gohan during her first fight, which Gohan even references as "but at least she won't have anything to destroy out here!"

But of course, all of that has been in response to familial pressure. It's obvious that she now cares a great deal about Gohan, Vegetto, and Pan, and feels guilty, but also hates that every time she does well by her own standards something awful happens to her loved ones. She thought she could escape from that guilt and feeling of helplessness through the Majin power, but U18 Bra drove the point home that this was just a higher level of tantrum and that it only proved how weak she was inside.

Keep in mind, we saw the flashback page to this event and then had U18 Bra cut her off and be like "I don't give a shit if you had it hard! Be bigger than that!" So it's clear Salagir isn't trying to baby Bra on how much this doesn't justify her actions. It does, however, help explain them. I think it's good character writing.

God, you said it so much better than I could have said it. The worst part is that she's arguably not even a villain, rather just a slave to her fear and self loathing, which ends up manifesting when she becomes a literal slave to Babidi.

Funnily enough, when U18 Bra says it doesn't matter if U16 Bra had it hard, you can't even say that she's wrong. Bra's whole problem from the very beginning is that she was never given any gratification from Vegito, seen with her frustration from repeatedly losing sparring matches against him. That stuff is important to a child and is the reason why when a kid draws a picture and gives it to their parents, they hang it up on the fridge even if it doesn't look good. It's a source of healthy encouragement. Keyword being healthy. Not having that means Bra had to find that encouragement elsewhere. Then comes the harsh reality that Vegito will always be stronger than Bra no matter how hard she trains, and if she ever does somehow get stronger than him, he'll kill her.

Considering Vegito's powerful enough to be revered as a divine being throughout U16, and even by the Multiverse Tournament, she still is nowhere as strong as him, it's almost sad to think that the only way this wouldnt have ended tragically would be if Bra just gave up fighting altogether or completely refused to interact with her family besides Gohan or Piccolo, who would probably recommend exactly that. U18 Bra's words ring true.

It’s as someone said above the same as having your son beat up his brother so bad that he has to go to the ICU and then telling the son to walk home. If you had killed billions and your own brother would your parents not be justified in abandoning you? It isn’t even that big of a deal since she’ll just find her way home in a few minutes and IT right back.

Yeah... I am totally blaming Vegetto for this.

>Knows his child has more power than she can handle by far, but still allows her to head out to fight powerful villains with no one capable around to keep her under control.

>Then shows up late and doesn't knows better than to threaten her life and leave her alone to fix everything on her own, without taking even 1% blame for anything.

Sure, what she did is horrible and shouldn't be easily forgiven considering she blew up a whole planet, but Vegetto should've very well known the risks of sending out Bra.

I mean... If Goten wouldn't have been deadweight with bra ending up brutally beaten up, none of this would've happened. And daddy Vegetto thinks the best approach is to first threaten her life and then punish her by leaving her by herself? Right in the middle of nowhere, to figure things out by herself and fix everything she has done on her own, with the sun about to engulf her any minute? Surely she won't get even more mental issues from this, especially after the death threat. Its not like she is completely clueless of her own actions and doesn't understand what happened, right?

All I am seeing here is that Vegetto truly sucks at parenting. A good parent doesn't only exist to dish out and punish. He needs to help keep her from doing these things and needs to take the time to make her understand what she did and how wrong it is, even if they have dragonballs to fix everything everytime. Only saying "you did x and y, fix it up by tomorrow or I'll beat your ass" and then vanishing sure won't help her understand and grow up to be better. If Vegettos whole parenting only consists of this and what else we have seen so far, its a miracle she didn't turn into a complete psycho way before the whole Majin thing.

Don't get me wrong. I am not saying Bra is innocent or deserves sympathy after taking who knows how many lives. BUT Vegetto is as much at fault as she is, if not more. This isnt the first time she lost control and he still allowed his mentally unstable child to take on unknown threats without beeing around to check up on her, knowing full well about her issues and what she is capable of. Its like handing your child a gun and then blaming said child for shooting people with it. She has more power than she can handle or knows what to do with it. And worst of all? She doesn't even remembers what she does after she goes berserk, much like how kid goku or gohan were when they turned oozaru.

Just try imagine it'd be Goku instead of Vegetto. First thing he'd probably do is apologize for not showing up in time and allowing things to come this far. He'd sure be mad because of the casualties too, but at the very least he wouldn't put all the blame on his clueless overpowered child and then vanish into his chill-zone.

DrewSaga was saying:
Not every villain in Dragon Ball is equally evil and heartless. She is more like a super-powered gangster but even she must have some respect for life. Clearly more than Bra does.
You know what, you're right. #notallvillains
She has respect for the lives of her own people but she was talkin all that good shit about killing Vegetto before and I highly doubt she'd give two shits about any human casualties.

I love it, people are all like "we shouldn't be sympathetic with Bra" yet I bet many of the same people are gonna be sympathetic with this nameless hypocrite, I mean twat, umm the fridge. Brick shithouse? Mamazonian.

Sho was saying: Cannot wait for the next panel,
Contrary to whatever other peoples opinions are...
I'm loving this arc. Feels like a true DBZ villain arc.

I know right? People tend to have Zero patience nowadays and most of us are taking this for granted with our "oh come on and lets skip this already"

If this was a paid thinG with the 1st rule being "if you showcase impatience , you shall be banned"
Many would still sign up and act gr8ful for a wonderful thing we have

Lets njoy it while we can people

P.s thanx to the ppl making even a remote contribution to this website

I honestly don't understand the comments. We are literally watching Napa or Recome wipe out fodder characters and people are whining.

I think the issue is that most readers just didn't comprehend the gap between Bra and everyone else and are legit upset to see it. In her base she's strong enough to make Perfect Cell from the Cell Arc struggle while in SSJ she's comparable to Ultimate Gohan.

How did you honestly believe someone twice as strong, with a Majin Amp to boot, would fare? Realistically, her losing would make no sense at all

I honestly don't understand the comments. We are literally watching Napa or Recome wipe out fodder characters and people are whining.

I think the issue is that most readers just didn't comprehend the gap between Bra and everyone else and are legit upset to see it. In her base she's strong enough to make Perfect Cell from the Cell Arc struggle while in SSJ she's comparable to Ultimate Gohan.

How did you honestly believe someone twice as strong, with a Majin Amp to boot, would fare? Realistically, her losing would make no sense at all

HOLY SHIT!!



Grash was saying: This plot has completely stalled so far. It would be best to pick up the pace and have the heroes actually score a victory for once.
The hell are you talking about? The "heroes" have been dominating this revolt from the beginning until ch.70.

The only "majin" fighters that have scored some kills are King Cold (Ginyu) & Cell. I even remember people complaining that none of the "heroes" has been killed.

Grash was saying: The last victory the heroes experienced was Gohan killing Ginyu and mincing up kakarotto.
Which was 3 chapters ago.

Grash was saying: Otherwise it has been defeat after defeat for a year.
It literally was one chapter that the good guys were losing. You feel it's been too long because DBM release 3 pages a week. But if you look back at all the budokai' chapters you will realise the good guys have been scoring more kills. Like seriously the only Majin left is Majin Bra.

Grash was saying: If all of these characters are mere fodder then the reader loses motivation to invest in them and care about their fate.
Speak for yourself. The Gohans & the Piccolos are not "fodder". They've been kicking asses left & right, DBM gives them the respect that they deserve (unlike DBS). Just because they have been now getting brutality killed by much much stronger opponent doesn't make them "fodder".

Grash was saying: If bra is portrayed as invincible then it makes it harder to write her defeat and make it logical
And who said she'll be defeated? Maybe she'll win? Have you ever thought of that possibility? Vegetto coming back, so sure that the Gohans & Bra took care of everything, only to see died Gohans & his daughter with the letter M on her forehead. His face will be priceless.

Grash was saying: I speculate that the reason the author separated most of the cast is because it would be too chaotic to write too many characters at once. (To be fair, Toriyama also accomplished this with fusions, absorptions, and the time chamber).
Uhhh No? The reason is to gave the other "side" characters a moment to shine & develop.

Grash was saying: However at this point the only thing the reader can do is wait for the main cast to return.
OH HELL NO! I'm really not in a hurry to see Vegetto's ugly ass face or any of these "main cast". Give me some armorless Phipsil please! No seriously, I want to see Phipsil without her armor...

Grash was saying: This removes all tension from the story because we are basically waiting for buu and gohan to die
Again, speak for yourself. I'm way too
curious to see what happens next.

Grash was saying: You have to balance the levity with the desperation. This is just my advice as one fictional author to another.
It is balanced. Go reread from "Babidi's trap" chapter.