DB Multiverse
Member page of Bird Mountain
Bird Mountain
22h, 05mn
Blaze was saying:
Bird Mountain was saying: Besides, Goku can move instantly across vast distances. If we’re using even halfway accurate DBZ physics (which, yes, I know, is like using accurate economics in Monopoly) and relativity, moving at those speeds means he’s basically experiencing time slower than everyone else—or not at all. Time stop should be more like “barely an inconvenience” to him.
If you're referring to time dilation, I would say that's probs contingent on aspects of physics which Dragon Ball ignores. In DBZ, the speed of light isn't an actual limit as shown by all these space ships going super fast across space, time dilation never seems to occur in those ships, and Namek/Earth/the rest of the universe all seem to operate under a single universal reference frame.
Bird Mountain was saying: but we’re pretending they’re not walking black holes, which also distort time.
Black holes presumably don't distort time either within Dragon Ball's physics.
Overall, I don't think Multiverse should try to give off these explanations that don't really work with DB physics that already exists. An example that does fit from DBM, in my view, is that teleportation instantly adapts you to the velocity of whatever you're teleporting to. Simply because that is how it works in canon (even though it's never elaborated on), and doesn't delve into any further physics.
"Goku's strong enough to resist the Time Stop" would have been fine I reckon, if that's where the story had planned to go. Or otherwise, some aspect about the technique's actual mechanics.
If you're referring to time dilation, I would say that's probs contingent on aspects of physics which Dragon Ball ignores. In DBZ, the speed of light isn't an actual limit as shown by all these space ships going super fast across space, time dilation never seems to occur in those ships, and Namek/Earth/the rest of the universe all seem to operate under a single universal reference frame.
Bird Mountain was saying: but we’re pretending they’re not walking black holes, which also distort time.
Black holes presumably don't distort time either within Dragon Ball's physics.
Overall, I don't think Multiverse should try to give off these explanations that don't really work with DB physics that already exists. An example that does fit from DBM, in my view, is that teleportation instantly adapts you to the velocity of whatever you're teleporting to. Simply because that is how it works in canon (even though it's never elaborated on), and doesn't delve into any further physics.
"Goku's strong enough to resist the Time Stop" would have been fine I reckon, if that's where the story had planned to go. Or otherwise, some aspect about the technique's actual mechanics.
Indeed. Perhaps, I should have been more verbose that I do understand that real world physics is not really a thing in DBZ than simply comparing it to real world economics in Monopoly. I totally agree with you that time dilation is not really a thing in the DB universe, and Toriyama seems to be silent about black holes though no doubt they don't work like they do in real life.
I brought up those physics and time concepts mostly as a way to humorously frame my point—more narrative color than serious argument. The Einstein pun came first, and then I just sort of backed into the black hole and Instant Transmission references to make the joke land with more umphf as it was woven through the whole comment.
When I was thinking about this idea, there had been a few comments that seemed to me to say that Goku couldn't do anything against XXI's time stop, and I did not agree. There were raw materials to work with in the story already introduced to allow Goku to put up a fight against One-Cast Man before the inevitable conclusion. "Goku is strong enough to resist time stop," has support, even within the DBM universe. The increased movement speed and time perception (entire sequences taking place before a drop falls) and that androids can move during the technique suggests that it is not a true time stop.
I get that the writers may have had other plans—and fair enough, it’s their story, and I am a dolt who badly writes jokes to make himself and occasionally others laugh. But I wasn’t convinced that XXI’s technique was so airtight that no narrative opening existed for Goku to resist it in some way. It felt like there were threads available in the text that could have supported a more dramatic confrontation before the inevitable outcome, and I think resistance in the finals would have made a lot of criticism more muted. I don't know what the writers have in mind for the future, and maybe having One-Cast Man bleed his own blood before the very final confrontation does damage to the story in some way. Who knows, other than the writers and team?
And with that, I thank you for your thoughtful and insightful response. I really do appreciate your points.
Bird Mountain
1 day, 22h
Dicax was saying:
"He stopped time to kill me? That sounds like him."
...and is also an ability I, Goku, who is a consummate fighter, recently encountered, and would have spend every moment possible thinking of ways to counter if I actually were Goku instead of a Lt. Worf surrogate.
That's the problem here. The edgelord subverting expectations with the final is one thing (a bad one), but Goku witnessing a technique that destroyed Vegetto and not coming up with even the beginning of a counter isn't Dragon Ball. Hell, the first part of this fight was exactly that. So Goku saw Vegetto lose to one thing and thought "I must be prepared for that" and then saw Vegetto lose to another and was like "I'm going to break from my character entirely and not even attempt to learn anything this time". Buuu.
...and is also an ability I, Goku, who is a consummate fighter, recently encountered, and would have spend every moment possible thinking of ways to counter if I actually were Goku instead of a Lt. Worf surrogate.
That's the problem here. The edgelord subverting expectations with the final is one thing (a bad one), but Goku witnessing a technique that destroyed Vegetto and not coming up with even the beginning of a counter isn't Dragon Ball. Hell, the first part of this fight was exactly that. So Goku saw Vegetto lose to one thing and thought "I must be prepared for that" and then saw Vegetto lose to another and was like "I'm going to break from my character entirely and not even attempt to learn anything this time". Buuu.
I happen to agree with you. I wrote as much a few pages back. I suggested that Goku could have used the increased time perception that Vegeta and Goku gained in their new forms to begin to move during the time stop, which isn't really a time stop since the androids can move during it. Moreover, time distortion was a tactic that XXI used against Vegetto, and Goku even ensured that he was in his best form before the match in order to be ready for anything One-Cast Man throws at him, including time distortion.
Besides, Goku can move instantly across vast distances. If we’re using even halfway accurate DBZ physics (which, yes, I know, is like using accurate economics in Monopoly) and relativity, moving at those speeds means he’s basically experiencing time slower than everyone else—or not at all. Time stop should be more like “barely an inconvenience” to him.
I feel like it’s ignoring the character entirely for Goku to have done nothing and to do nothing about this devastating technique. Goku is a battle nerd. He sees a new technique and immediately goes into full anime-nerd breakdown mode trying to figure it out. But apparently, in this timeline, he decided to roleplay as Lt. Worf: proud, honorable, and there strictly to get bodied by the guest villain. +Respect. Wait... I meant the opposite. Negative Respect. This is the Ultimate Tenkaichi tournament, after all. You remember that beloved and critically acclaimed Dragon Ball classic, right? Ultimate Tenkaichi: the Rock-Paper-Scissors Simulator 2011. That’s what this fight feels like now.
And don’t even get me started on the energy scale. These fighters casually throw out attacks with thousands of times the energy needed to destroy a planet... but we’re pretending they’re not walking black holes, which also distort time.
Remember: energy and mass are equivalent, according to this relatively (pun intended) unknown scientist named Einstein. 1 Replie(s)
Bird Mountain
2 days, 7h
iron leaf was saying:
That really is a solid approach. Unfortunately, there are 2 points I really have to pick on.
NSSJ does not generate an aura. And nobody knows XXI has the IKL time stop ability. All a hidden trump card. For your idea to be successfully applicable, you'd have to reveal the twist on the ability ‘before’ the fight.
NSSJ does not generate an aura. And nobody knows XXI has the IKL time stop ability. All a hidden trump card. For your idea to be successfully applicable, you'd have to reveal the twist on the ability ‘before’ the fight.
I respect your points. I recall that Goku and Vegeta's extended time perception was introduced, and Goku has seen XXI's time stop ability when I'K'L used it. Goku has been characterized many times as having the ability to adapt to techniques used against him. And XXI has been shown to use time distortion techniques already when he fought Vegetto, which would be sufficient to make Goku wary of time distortion techniques. I am not sure my idea would be an, forgive the term, asspull nor a Dues Ex Machina as your comment seemingly hints at saying. There has been sufficient foreshadowing and introduction of the elements to make it believable. I think the only "twist" that isn't directly connected or introduced would be that XXI can use I'K'L's technique himself, but I would argue that is merely a nice to have. Goku having experienced the time stop from I'K'L already would have been working on ways to detect and counter that attack. I am not going to argue that it fits like a glove per se, but I think it fits at least plausibly.
Without a doubt, from it's internal structure, XXI killing his opponent like he did makes sense, but as I have been saying, Goku is not just any character, the finals are not just any match, and emotional narrative is as important as logical narrative. There was a way to accomplish both narrative goals and have the story hit the same beats in the end — meaning Goku killed by XXI and winning the tournament.
Thanks for your reply. I appreciate the constructive response
Bird Mountain
July 11th
Sasorro was saying:
Bird Mountain was saying:
As far as having blue balls, I suppose having blue balls is a sign of culture and nobility. Restraining yourself and learning to appreciate the subversive arts that the lower classes don't appreciate is part of what makes your blood blue — and thus your balls. Persons properly educated and of good breeding consider the phenomenon of blue bloods to be the height of pleasure. Have you ever read a comic that just edges you forever? Simply sublime. You can keep that will-they-won't-they going for decades or that villain can just keep doing villiany for lifetimes of men only to get away or escape to do it all again. No climax —no resolution. Perpetual blue balls.
Disclaimer: This post is intended for fun. I am not saying anyone actually said that or is acting like that. Blue balls and blue bloods is a natural connection to make. Responding to this post with anything serious is known to the State of California to be a waste of your time and energy and may cause cancers. woke up and read this, made me smile lol best comment back yet XD enjoy ur day my good person
As far as having blue balls, I suppose having blue balls is a sign of culture and nobility. Restraining yourself and learning to appreciate the subversive arts that the lower classes don't appreciate is part of what makes your blood blue — and thus your balls. Persons properly educated and of good breeding consider the phenomenon of blue bloods to be the height of pleasure. Have you ever read a comic that just edges you forever? Simply sublime. You can keep that will-they-won't-they going for decades or that villain can just keep doing villiany for lifetimes of men only to get away or escape to do it all again. No climax —no resolution. Perpetual blue balls.
Disclaimer: This post is intended for fun. I am not saying anyone actually said that or is acting like that. Blue balls and blue bloods is a natural connection to make. Responding to this post with anything serious is known to the State of California to be a waste of your time and energy and may cause cancers. woke up and read this, made me smile lol best comment back yet XD enjoy ur day my good person
Yay!! Mission Accomplished then. I am glad that you smiled. That makes my day better.
I hope you have a most excellent day today.
And I hope to see you on future pages reading how the adventures continue for One-Cast Man, aka XXI.
New Context:
Trippy thought. What-if XXI gains power from the comments section on the web page? Using the fact that this is a multiverse comic, perhaps there could be a way in the story to channel the positivity for XXI into energy from which he consumes to get stronger. That would be a crazy meta aspect of the story. Every time someone says something akin to "Of course, XXI could defeat [insert fighter name]," One-cast man can indeed defeat that fighter for as long as the audience believes it is so. Then, the right answer would be to hate XXI and think he is overrated. How trippy would that be?
And this is why you shouldn't do drugs, kids. I am coming up with this sober; can you imagine me on something? Exactly! You're welcome. 1 Replie(s)
Bird Mountain
July 10th
DissapointedReader was saying:
twitch.tv/reileo was saying: Mages are mages for a reason. What would really be wrong is a guy who dedicates his intellect to learning every kind of hack losing to someone who only knows how to throw punches.
"Oh, Salagir disrespected Goku." — No, he just took away the plot armor. Goku can be beloved, inspiring, a hero to many people. But if we don’t let our fanboy side speak louder and blind us, that’s exactly what would happen in many of his fights. XXI is a MAGE — and ONE MILLIONS OF YEARS OLD. Not even fucking Zen Buu could deal with him (at least not in time). Salagir already showed this with Vegetto.
Do you think an MMA fighter could even touch Gandalf? It’s exactly like that.
I play WoW, and if anyone here plays too, you know very well: mages are a warrior’s nightmare. When I’m on my mage, a warrior — no matter how good — barely touches me. There’s teleport, freezing, slow, invisibility, buff stealing, damage shields… It’s too much hacking.
So, like it or not, this makes sense — a lot of sense. Now we just have to wait for the fireworks to start. :PAnother thing that "makes sense" is Frieza immediately killing everyone on Namek as opposed to toying with them and giving them the time to outsmart him and ultimately defeat him after Goku turns super saiyan. "Makes sense", but would make for a horrible story. "Making sense" is not the issue. A good fight here is more than warranted after 17 years of buildup from the standpoint of the narrative. And at the end of the day, a good narrative is all that matters. Goku could have tricked XXI with the afterimage technique and turned this into an entertaining tactical battle (Goku's martial arts vs XXI's magic). XXI could win and we could still get the same plot lines Salagir is pushing. Just like with Bra "giving up" against Gast in an OOC fashion, it just comes across as lazy writing.
SSJ2TeenTrunks was saying: Just like in canon Dragonball, Goku has entered into a tournament and has lost once again, but the tournaments end brings new adventures to the gang!And unlike those tournaments, Goku here was effortlessly dispatched and did not give the ultimate winner a run for their money in a highly entertaining fight.
"Oh, Salagir disrespected Goku." — No, he just took away the plot armor. Goku can be beloved, inspiring, a hero to many people. But if we don’t let our fanboy side speak louder and blind us, that’s exactly what would happen in many of his fights. XXI is a MAGE — and ONE MILLIONS OF YEARS OLD. Not even fucking Zen Buu could deal with him (at least not in time). Salagir already showed this with Vegetto.
Do you think an MMA fighter could even touch Gandalf? It’s exactly like that.
I play WoW, and if anyone here plays too, you know very well: mages are a warrior’s nightmare. When I’m on my mage, a warrior — no matter how good — barely touches me. There’s teleport, freezing, slow, invisibility, buff stealing, damage shields… It’s too much hacking.
So, like it or not, this makes sense — a lot of sense. Now we just have to wait for the fireworks to start. :PAnother thing that "makes sense" is Frieza immediately killing everyone on Namek as opposed to toying with them and giving them the time to outsmart him and ultimately defeat him after Goku turns super saiyan. "Makes sense", but would make for a horrible story. "Making sense" is not the issue. A good fight here is more than warranted after 17 years of buildup from the standpoint of the narrative. And at the end of the day, a good narrative is all that matters. Goku could have tricked XXI with the afterimage technique and turned this into an entertaining tactical battle (Goku's martial arts vs XXI's magic). XXI could win and we could still get the same plot lines Salagir is pushing. Just like with Bra "giving up" against Gast in an OOC fashion, it just comes across as lazy writing.
SSJ2TeenTrunks was saying: Just like in canon Dragonball, Goku has entered into a tournament and has lost once again, but the tournaments end brings new adventures to the gang!And unlike those tournaments, Goku here was effortlessly dispatched and did not give the ultimate winner a run for their money in a highly entertaining fight.
Somebody use that third wish to get this man a chicken dinner — because this comment is a winner.
The second wish does not count since winners deserve their own wish chicken dinners.
Sasorro was saying:
I mean how you feel to read this comic for 17 years of your life to have the tournament finale fight just to blue balls you? Also goku is only one to die to XXI no one else died to him to just show how useless goku is in the end because wish magic woo so awesome best thing ever am i
I mean how you feel to read this comic for 17 years of your life to have the tournament finale fight just to blue balls you? Also goku is only one to die to XXI no one else died to him to just show how useless goku is in the end because wish magic woo so awesome best thing ever am i
I know that I learned from reading Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball Z is that is if you wanted to become the very best, you just had to learn magic. Magic defeats every other non-mage opponent in one-shot. As we all know from the story, using the dragon balls to defeat your opponent using magic was highly effective and made Dragon Ball what it is today. TFS was parodying DBZ by putting Popo at the top of the pecking order instead of Urarani Baba (sorry, I forgot her English name. Is it Fortune-teller Baba? If so, that's just weird because Baba is just old lady.)
As far as having blue balls, I suppose having blue balls is a sign of culture and nobility. Restraining yourself and learning to appreciate the subversive arts that the lower classes don't appreciate is part of what makes your blood blue — and thus your balls. Persons properly educated and of good breeding consider the phenomenon of blue bloods to be the height of pleasure. Have you ever read a comic that just edges you forever? Simply sublime. You can keep that will-they-won't-they going for decades or that villain can just keep doing villiany for lifetimes of men only to get away or escape to do it all again. No climax —no resolution. Perpetual blue balls.
Disclaimer: This post is intended for fun. I am not saying anyone actually said that or is acting like that. Blue balls and blue bloods is a natural connection to make. Responding to this post with anything serious is known to the State of California to be a waste of your time and energy and may cause cancers. 1 Replie(s)
Bird Mountain
July 9th
"
Goku, having already experienced XXI’s time-stop technique and witnessed its devastating effects, enters the fight wary and prepared. He knows XXI is deceptive and prone to using time-based tricks, so before the match begins, he powers up into SSJ0. In this heightened form, both his and Vegeta’s perception of time becomes extraordinarily dilated: to them, a single second stretches into an eternity.
Focusing his energy and sharpening his awareness, Goku prepares for the possibility of temporal distortion. The Androids had proven that time isn’t truly stopped—just slowed to the point that only a select few can move within it. If Goku can perceive movement, he can act. And he does.
Just as XXI initiates his attack, Goku manages to dodge—barely. He moves a fraction of a second after the strike begins, but it’s enough. The impact of time’s return to normal cracks his GI and leaves him gasping for breath. Yet as the dust settles, XXI clutches his abdomen—Goku had landed a counter-kick mid-dodge. The shock disrupts XXI’s concentration, breaking the time stop. Both fighters freeze in a tense standoff.
Goku breathes heavily, clearly pushed to a new limit. XXI, taken off guard, stares in disbelief. Goku begins to suspect something strange: the sensation of hitting XXI felt... off. He starts to question if XXI is truly what he appears to be. Meanwhile, the Androids provide commentary for the audience, explaining the time-stop mechanics and Goku’s breakthrough.
Realizing the danger, XXI panics and freezes time again. But Goku is already moving. Even within the time stop, Goku’s eyes track XXI, forcing him to retreat. As he backs away, XXI begins to unravel, revealing hints of his true form. He lashes out, striking at Goku with increasing desperation. Yet each time, Goku narrowly avoids the attacks—dodging again and again with growing ease.
Then, from the stillness, Goku’s voice echoes: “I’m starting to get the hang of this.”
His aura flares. He gathers Ki. He attacks. But XXI, now in a smoke-like form, slips away.
What follows is a chaotic exchange—a battle too fast for most to follow. Eventually, Goku is knocked down, drained and vulnerable. Across from him, XXI has returned to his old man guise, panting and weakened. He wants to consume Goku, to finish it—but can’t.
The Androids do their best to narrate the events that occurred within the time stop, including glimpses of XXI’s true form. But whether due to disbelief or confusion, most in the audience dismiss it as just another feature of XXI’s time manipulation.
Perhaps there are better ways, and I am no writer. However, I still think it is entirely possible to have a good fight and still have Goku lose. 1 Replie(s)
DB Multiverse page 2513
iron leaf was saying:
You can't create a final-worthy tournament fight in the typical DB style without rewriting XXI in a fundamental way.
You can't create a final-worthy tournament fight in the typical DB style without rewriting XXI in a fundamental way.
Goku, having already experienced XXI’s time-stop technique and witnessed its devastating effects, enters the fight wary and prepared. He knows XXI is deceptive and prone to using time-based tricks, so before the match begins, he powers up into SSJ0. In this heightened form, both his and Vegeta’s perception of time becomes extraordinarily dilated: to them, a single second stretches into an eternity.
Focusing his energy and sharpening his awareness, Goku prepares for the possibility of temporal distortion. The Androids had proven that time isn’t truly stopped—just slowed to the point that only a select few can move within it. If Goku can perceive movement, he can act. And he does.
Just as XXI initiates his attack, Goku manages to dodge—barely. He moves a fraction of a second after the strike begins, but it’s enough. The impact of time’s return to normal cracks his GI and leaves him gasping for breath. Yet as the dust settles, XXI clutches his abdomen—Goku had landed a counter-kick mid-dodge. The shock disrupts XXI’s concentration, breaking the time stop. Both fighters freeze in a tense standoff.
Goku breathes heavily, clearly pushed to a new limit. XXI, taken off guard, stares in disbelief. Goku begins to suspect something strange: the sensation of hitting XXI felt... off. He starts to question if XXI is truly what he appears to be. Meanwhile, the Androids provide commentary for the audience, explaining the time-stop mechanics and Goku’s breakthrough.
Realizing the danger, XXI panics and freezes time again. But Goku is already moving. Even within the time stop, Goku’s eyes track XXI, forcing him to retreat. As he backs away, XXI begins to unravel, revealing hints of his true form. He lashes out, striking at Goku with increasing desperation. Yet each time, Goku narrowly avoids the attacks—dodging again and again with growing ease.
Then, from the stillness, Goku’s voice echoes: “I’m starting to get the hang of this.”
His aura flares. He gathers Ki. He attacks. But XXI, now in a smoke-like form, slips away.
What follows is a chaotic exchange—a battle too fast for most to follow. Eventually, Goku is knocked down, drained and vulnerable. Across from him, XXI has returned to his old man guise, panting and weakened. He wants to consume Goku, to finish it—but can’t.
The Androids do their best to narrate the events that occurred within the time stop, including glimpses of XXI’s true form. But whether due to disbelief or confusion, most in the audience dismiss it as just another feature of XXI’s time manipulation.
Perhaps there are better ways, and I am no writer. However, I still think it is entirely possible to have a good fight and still have Goku lose. 1 Replie(s)
Bird Mountain
July 8th
LMAO was saying:
Sure, but it was the plot that made said catalyst not Goku himself, Taopaipai destroyed him Uppa tells him about the legend of the Karin tower so he can get stronger, Piccolo bodied him after he was healed by a senzu his first impulse was a fit of rage to go fight Piccolo again since Kame had lost his life against Piccolo but Karin stopped him and gave him the magic poisonous water that unlocked his potential, he sacrificed his life against Raditz but it wasn't him that had the idea to go to Kaiou's place, it was Kami's and Kami got the permission for him to do so and even his body in the afterlife. Also you misread both Goku's character again and the concept of intelligence here, Goku was never stupid he was ignorant there is a considerable difference he didn't knew how to count because he wasn't taught about it, he didn't knew how to differ dudes and girls because he never met a girl before Bulma but by watching the OG and Z you would see that even though he remained a silly man he was able to plan things that went beyond fighting showing that he did have intelligence.
I don't get this obsession with the main character you and some people have, but it has ruined many recent animes with the bland personality-less yet always wins somehow trope but moving on. If you really look at how DBM is structured it doesn't really have a main character, it has the legacy characters who most of them had some good development (Gohan finally being able to balance his studies with fighting even though he doesn't like to fight, Vegeta finally being freed of his inferiority shackles and finding peace, Oob having his rite of passage from student to equal to Goku, Goten and Trunks learning a lesson about responsibility when Goten got wrecked in the Majin rebellion arc, Pan going SSJ and getting a real drive to protect the planet, etc.) except Goku and Piccolo I'd say (sadly) the what-if characters from the other universes that also had some good development specially if you read the novels and the OCS some while do get preferential treatment didn't really get any main character focus, because it isn't there. Goku even in the novels barely had any development as a character and was rarely the focus of this story plus other than his fight with Uub and Vegeta didn't really get any cool fights and both those fights were arguably more focused on the two who lost so all this outrage about him getting one shotted seems very misplaced.
Sure, but it was the plot that made said catalyst not Goku himself, Taopaipai destroyed him Uppa tells him about the legend of the Karin tower so he can get stronger, Piccolo bodied him after he was healed by a senzu his first impulse was a fit of rage to go fight Piccolo again since Kame had lost his life against Piccolo but Karin stopped him and gave him the magic poisonous water that unlocked his potential, he sacrificed his life against Raditz but it wasn't him that had the idea to go to Kaiou's place, it was Kami's and Kami got the permission for him to do so and even his body in the afterlife. Also you misread both Goku's character again and the concept of intelligence here, Goku was never stupid he was ignorant there is a considerable difference he didn't knew how to count because he wasn't taught about it, he didn't knew how to differ dudes and girls because he never met a girl before Bulma but by watching the OG and Z you would see that even though he remained a silly man he was able to plan things that went beyond fighting showing that he did have intelligence.
I don't get this obsession with the main character you and some people have, but it has ruined many recent animes with the bland personality-less yet always wins somehow trope but moving on. If you really look at how DBM is structured it doesn't really have a main character, it has the legacy characters who most of them had some good development (Gohan finally being able to balance his studies with fighting even though he doesn't like to fight, Vegeta finally being freed of his inferiority shackles and finding peace, Oob having his rite of passage from student to equal to Goku, Goten and Trunks learning a lesson about responsibility when Goten got wrecked in the Majin rebellion arc, Pan going SSJ and getting a real drive to protect the planet, etc.) except Goku and Piccolo I'd say (sadly) the what-if characters from the other universes that also had some good development specially if you read the novels and the OCS some while do get preferential treatment didn't really get any main character focus, because it isn't there. Goku even in the novels barely had any development as a character and was rarely the focus of this story plus other than his fight with Uub and Vegeta didn't really get any cool fights and both those fights were arguably more focused on the two who lost so all this outrage about him getting one shotted seems very misplaced.
I think there’s a bit of a mismatch between what I’m actually saying and what you’re responding to.
First off — you’re absolutely right that a lot of Goku’s growth moments are sparked by others or external events. He didn’t invent the concept of Karin’s Tower or petition Otherworld HR for Kaio-senpai’s training plan. But my point isn’t that he has to generate every power-up from scratch like some Saiyan entrepreneur — it’s that once the path is open, Goku walks it. With broken legs, usually. The catalyst may be external, but the growth is his. That’s the magic. That’s what inspires.
Same goes for the intelligence bit. I’m 100% with you on the “ignorant vs. unintelligent” distinction — in fact, I said as much:
“He was supposed to be this uneducated naive hick who can fight."
So we’re actually aligned there. Goku ain’t a genius, but he’s not brain-dead either. He's like if a Labrador learned martial arts and could punch God — joyful, loyal, and occasionally confused by basic human customs.
Now, as for the “main character” discussion — I get that DBM is ensemble-based, and I don’t need it to be all Goku, all the time. I can appreciate the side characters getting some light. I would applaud if there was another character who logically and cathartically won the tournament. Heck I think other characters deserve the win every now and then. I am not obsessed with the main character, but it does help with narrative structure. When you have events like this happen with a main character, you know generally speaking, there is something coming to help the main character overcome this challenge. When you don't have a main character, there is no narrative guide post to help you make the transition from loss to win. We don't know what is going to happen, and we don't know if a character in whom we invest so much will be redeemed. It makes it more challenging.
Anyway, appreciate the convo. We may be reading the same story with different scouters, but at least we both care enough to argue about it — and that’s peak Dragon Ball fandom energy. 1 Replie(s)
Bird Mountain
July 8th
LMAO was saying:
Bird Mountain was saying: "Why all the hate?" people ask when fans react strongly to a fanfic choice. The answer, ironically, is love.
To be angry, to feel betrayed, to lash out — these things only happen when someone cares. Deeply. A so-called "hater" is someone who once believed. They believed in the characters, the setting, the spirit of the story. They invested emotion, time, and often a piece of their own identity into that universe. When a new writer takes the reins of something beloved — even in fan fiction — it can feel risky. And when that new direction seems to violate the core of what people loved, it hurts.
This isn't new. A generation of kids cried when Optimus Prime died. Grown adults mourned when DC killed Superman — it made international news. Why? Because these aren’t just fictional characters. They are symbols. Ideals. Pieces of us.
So yes, when Goku is suddenly defeated in one shot — especially in a finale, especially by an ability he’s seen before — it’s not just a plot twist. It feels like a violation. Goku isn’t just a strong character. He’s a representation of perseverance, growth, and boundless optimism. A man who turns failure into strength, who always gets back up, who trains harder, fights smarter, and never gives up. Even when he loses, it plants the seed of a comeback. That’s what gives people hope.
But when he dies without a fight, with no clever counter, no lesson learned, and no arc ahead — when he’s not even the main character anymore — fans feel like they’ve lost more than just a match. They’ve lost the ideal. Goku becomes... ordinary. Beatable. Forgotten. And that stings. Because for many, Goku wasn’t just a character. He was the person they wanted to be. Strong. Joyful. Resilient. Now, that dream feels chipped away.
Sure, characters should evolve. Stories should grow. But not every story needs to be deconstructed. Not every hero needs to be made vulnerable, broken, or forgotten. Sometimes we need a place where heroes remain heroic. Where we can still believe in strength, goodness, and triumph.
That’s why fanfiction matters so much. It’s a space where the love for the source material can continue — safely, passionately, and authentically. But when that space feels like it's betraying the very core of what made it beloved, people lash out. It’s not because they don’t care. It’s because they do. Intensely.
Of course, hate expressed through personal attacks or harassment is wrong. Mods should act on that. But don’t confuse emotion with malice. That "hate-filled comment"? It’s proof someone cared enough to write it. They’re invested. That’s not always a bad thing. In fact, it’s often a sign that the story — and its characters — still matter.
So don’t be afraid of the "hate." See it for what it is: misplaced love, grief for a lost ideal, a desperate wish to feel inspired again.
Very inspired, you're mostly correct.
You are very wrong about your description of Goku though. Re-watch/read Dragon Ball up until the end of Z and you will see that Goku was never about being a invincible hero, he was about overcoming his limitations and growing with his failures and that sometimes he would get easily overpowered and would not look cool like this mythification of Goku you are imagining, when Goku fought Piccolo for the first time as a kid he was absolutely destroyed without much effort, when he fought Freeza if Freeza wasn't fooling around he would have died with a little more than a one hit KO but Freeza didn't take him seriously up until it was too late (SSJ), and with Cell if Cell wasn't interested in having fun with fights he would have bodied Goku extremely quick he even told Goku to eat a senzu so he could play with his food a bit more.
If you want to see a invincible version of Goku that never looks bad in battle I recommend for you Dragon Ball GT, Dragon Ball Super and Super Dragon Ball Heroes. He will however act like a ret...mentally challenged person in the last two options.
To be angry, to feel betrayed, to lash out — these things only happen when someone cares. Deeply. A so-called "hater" is someone who once believed. They believed in the characters, the setting, the spirit of the story. They invested emotion, time, and often a piece of their own identity into that universe. When a new writer takes the reins of something beloved — even in fan fiction — it can feel risky. And when that new direction seems to violate the core of what people loved, it hurts.
This isn't new. A generation of kids cried when Optimus Prime died. Grown adults mourned when DC killed Superman — it made international news. Why? Because these aren’t just fictional characters. They are symbols. Ideals. Pieces of us.
So yes, when Goku is suddenly defeated in one shot — especially in a finale, especially by an ability he’s seen before — it’s not just a plot twist. It feels like a violation. Goku isn’t just a strong character. He’s a representation of perseverance, growth, and boundless optimism. A man who turns failure into strength, who always gets back up, who trains harder, fights smarter, and never gives up. Even when he loses, it plants the seed of a comeback. That’s what gives people hope.
But when he dies without a fight, with no clever counter, no lesson learned, and no arc ahead — when he’s not even the main character anymore — fans feel like they’ve lost more than just a match. They’ve lost the ideal. Goku becomes... ordinary. Beatable. Forgotten. And that stings. Because for many, Goku wasn’t just a character. He was the person they wanted to be. Strong. Joyful. Resilient. Now, that dream feels chipped away.
Sure, characters should evolve. Stories should grow. But not every story needs to be deconstructed. Not every hero needs to be made vulnerable, broken, or forgotten. Sometimes we need a place where heroes remain heroic. Where we can still believe in strength, goodness, and triumph.
That’s why fanfiction matters so much. It’s a space where the love for the source material can continue — safely, passionately, and authentically. But when that space feels like it's betraying the very core of what made it beloved, people lash out. It’s not because they don’t care. It’s because they do. Intensely.
Of course, hate expressed through personal attacks or harassment is wrong. Mods should act on that. But don’t confuse emotion with malice. That "hate-filled comment"? It’s proof someone cared enough to write it. They’re invested. That’s not always a bad thing. In fact, it’s often a sign that the story — and its characters — still matter.
So don’t be afraid of the "hate." See it for what it is: misplaced love, grief for a lost ideal, a desperate wish to feel inspired again.
Very inspired, you're mostly correct.
You are very wrong about your description of Goku though. Re-watch/read Dragon Ball up until the end of Z and you will see that Goku was never about being a invincible hero, he was about overcoming his limitations and growing with his failures and that sometimes he would get easily overpowered and would not look cool like this mythification of Goku you are imagining, when Goku fought Piccolo for the first time as a kid he was absolutely destroyed without much effort, when he fought Freeza if Freeza wasn't fooling around he would have died with a little more than a one hit KO but Freeza didn't take him seriously up until it was too late (SSJ), and with Cell if Cell wasn't interested in having fun with fights he would have bodied Goku extremely quick he even told Goku to eat a senzu so he could play with his food a bit more.
If you want to see a invincible version of Goku that never looks bad in battle I recommend for you Dragon Ball GT, Dragon Ball Super and Super Dragon Ball Heroes. He will however act like a ret...mentally challenged person in the last two options.
"A man who turns failure into strength, who always gets back up, who trains harder, fights smarter, and never gives up. Even when he loses, it plants the seed of a comeback. That’s what gives people hope."
My point was never that Goku was invincible or never loses, but it was that Goku even when being served an L with extra beatdown sauce by Raditz or Piccolo or TaoPaiPai, it had meaning and was a catalyst for future growth. He was the main character, but now it isn't so clear. We can't just trust that Goku will figure this one out. KaiOh-Sama is not going to train the time-stop weakness out of him.
Who exactly is the main character? Son Bra? Vegetto? Goku? Who is going to become better from having lost this tournament? Or do you think we are headed to a technical or clever victory over XXI? Something akin to using the Dragon Balls to wish for a Deus Ex Machina or a we hit the reset button so everyone goes home and travel is locked? Or worst of all, a reset so that the tournament never happened? This makes Goku's defeat a little more emotional and harder to take under these circumstances.
Yes, Goku did get hit over the head with the stupid stick like a Gatlin Gun, but he was always a bit stupid. His low intelligence has always been part of his character, even in Dragon Ball OG. He didn't know his age. He can't count. He could not tell men from women. He was supposed to be this uneducated naive hick who can fight. Bulma was the brains and beauty. Goku was the heart and muscle — and latent fighting genius. Yamcha was fodder to prove how strong the enemies Goku faced were. Goku was never a man of even average intelligence when it came to normal metrics of intelligence. The lack of intelligence has nothing to do with the sequel series nor is it a product of the sequel series. They may Flanderize it a little more, but it was always part of the character from even OG Dragon Ball. 1 Replie(s)
Bird Mountain
July 8th
"Why all the hate?" people ask when fans react strongly to a fanfic choice. The answer, ironically, is love.
To be angry, to feel betrayed, to lash out — these things only happen when someone cares. Deeply. A so-called "hater" is someone who once believed. They believed in the characters, the setting, the spirit of the story. They invested emotion, time, and often a piece of their own identity into that universe. When a new writer takes the reins of something beloved — even in fan fiction — it can feel risky. And when that new direction seems to violate the core of what people loved, it hurts.
This isn't new. A generation of kids cried when Optimus Prime died. Grown adults mourned when DC killed Superman — it made international news. Why? Because these aren’t just fictional characters. They are symbols. Ideals. Pieces of us.
So yes, when Goku is suddenly defeated in one shot — especially in a finale, especially by an ability he’s seen before — it’s not just a plot twist. It feels like a violation. Goku isn’t just a strong character. He’s a representation of perseverance, growth, and boundless optimism. A man who turns failure into strength, who always gets back up, who trains harder, fights smarter, and never gives up. Even when he loses, it plants the seed of a comeback. That’s what gives people hope.
But when he dies without a fight, with no clever counter, no lesson learned, and no arc ahead — when he’s not even the main character anymore — fans feel like they’ve lost more than just a match. They’ve lost the ideal. Goku becomes... ordinary. Beatable. Forgotten. And that stings. Because for many, Goku wasn’t just a character. He was the person they wanted to be. Strong. Joyful. Resilient. Now, that dream feels chipped away.
Sure, characters should evolve. Stories should grow. But not every story needs to be deconstructed. Not every hero needs to be made vulnerable, broken, or forgotten. Sometimes we need a place where heroes remain heroic. Where we can still believe in strength, goodness, and triumph.
That’s why fanfiction matters so much. It’s a space where the love for the source material can continue — safely, passionately, and authentically. But when that space feels like it's betraying the very core of what made it beloved, people lash out. It’s not because they don’t care. It’s because they do. Intensely.
Of course, hate expressed through personal attacks or harassment is wrong. Mods should act on that. But don’t confuse emotion with malice. That "hate-filled comment"? It’s proof someone cared enough to write it. They’re invested. That’s not always a bad thing. In fact, it’s often a sign that the story — and its characters — still matter.
So don’t be afraid of the "hate." See it for what it is: misplaced love, grief for a lost ideal, a desperate wish to feel inspired again. 2 Replie(s)
DB Multiverse page 2513
To be angry, to feel betrayed, to lash out — these things only happen when someone cares. Deeply. A so-called "hater" is someone who once believed. They believed in the characters, the setting, the spirit of the story. They invested emotion, time, and often a piece of their own identity into that universe. When a new writer takes the reins of something beloved — even in fan fiction — it can feel risky. And when that new direction seems to violate the core of what people loved, it hurts.
This isn't new. A generation of kids cried when Optimus Prime died. Grown adults mourned when DC killed Superman — it made international news. Why? Because these aren’t just fictional characters. They are symbols. Ideals. Pieces of us.
So yes, when Goku is suddenly defeated in one shot — especially in a finale, especially by an ability he’s seen before — it’s not just a plot twist. It feels like a violation. Goku isn’t just a strong character. He’s a representation of perseverance, growth, and boundless optimism. A man who turns failure into strength, who always gets back up, who trains harder, fights smarter, and never gives up. Even when he loses, it plants the seed of a comeback. That’s what gives people hope.
But when he dies without a fight, with no clever counter, no lesson learned, and no arc ahead — when he’s not even the main character anymore — fans feel like they’ve lost more than just a match. They’ve lost the ideal. Goku becomes... ordinary. Beatable. Forgotten. And that stings. Because for many, Goku wasn’t just a character. He was the person they wanted to be. Strong. Joyful. Resilient. Now, that dream feels chipped away.
Sure, characters should evolve. Stories should grow. But not every story needs to be deconstructed. Not every hero needs to be made vulnerable, broken, or forgotten. Sometimes we need a place where heroes remain heroic. Where we can still believe in strength, goodness, and triumph.
That’s why fanfiction matters so much. It’s a space where the love for the source material can continue — safely, passionately, and authentically. But when that space feels like it's betraying the very core of what made it beloved, people lash out. It’s not because they don’t care. It’s because they do. Intensely.
Of course, hate expressed through personal attacks or harassment is wrong. Mods should act on that. But don’t confuse emotion with malice. That "hate-filled comment"? It’s proof someone cared enough to write it. They’re invested. That’s not always a bad thing. In fact, it’s often a sign that the story — and its characters — still matter.
So don’t be afraid of the "hate." See it for what it is: misplaced love, grief for a lost ideal, a desperate wish to feel inspired again. 2 Replie(s)
Bird Mountain
July 7th
Well, it seems like the ol’ “fake-out”
theory is headed for the same fate as Yamcha in pretty much every timeline: dead in a crater. I'm sorry for those of you who were holding out hope.
I’ve seen people call this latest plot turn a “constellation of disappointment” — and honestly, what a phrase. I’m stealing it. But seriously, this moment is tough. We’re all feeling a lot. Some folks are venting disappointment, others are defending the choice, and both sides are creating emotional shockwaves that ripple through the community. It’s a feedback loop of reactions to reactions, and the mods are over here playing whack-a-mole with their sanity in an attempt to dampen the feedback loop. Godspeed, mods.
Now, with all that said, I want to take a moment to sincerely say: I respect Salagir and his team. Always have. They make bold, controversial decisions and post them on their platform, knowing full well we’re going to yell about it from the digital rafters. That takes guts and commitment — and probably a really good mute button.
Speaking for myself: I don’t love the Goku choice. In fact, it makes me wince a little. But here’s the thing — Salagir and the team should completely ignore me. That’s what artists do. They follow the vision, not the crowd. Even if the vision makes some fans scream into the void (or at their keyboards), it’s still their vision. And they are putting in the work — consistently, passionately, for years. That earns my respect, even when I disagree.
We don’t need artists who cater. We need artists who risk, who dare, who throw creative punches even if they don’t all land. Salagir and his team aren’t engineers building a bridge to please everyone. They’re artists launching a spaceship fueled by emotion and imagination. Sometimes it crashes. Sometimes it lands on a new planet. Either way, it’s a hell of a ride.
So yeah, call me disappointed, but also call me grateful. Because I’d rather have artists who take swings than ones who play it safe. I express my thoughts not to change the vision but to relate to the rest of the community going through the same experience that I am.
And at my house, we still stan bold storytelling — even when it breaks our hearts or makes us go “…really? You're going with that??” 2 Replie(s)
DB Multiverse page 2513
theory is headed for the same fate as Yamcha in pretty much every timeline: dead in a crater. I'm sorry for those of you who were holding out hope.
I’ve seen people call this latest plot turn a “constellation of disappointment” — and honestly, what a phrase. I’m stealing it. But seriously, this moment is tough. We’re all feeling a lot. Some folks are venting disappointment, others are defending the choice, and both sides are creating emotional shockwaves that ripple through the community. It’s a feedback loop of reactions to reactions, and the mods are over here playing whack-a-mole with their sanity in an attempt to dampen the feedback loop. Godspeed, mods.
Now, with all that said, I want to take a moment to sincerely say: I respect Salagir and his team. Always have. They make bold, controversial decisions and post them on their platform, knowing full well we’re going to yell about it from the digital rafters. That takes guts and commitment — and probably a really good mute button.
Speaking for myself: I don’t love the Goku choice. In fact, it makes me wince a little. But here’s the thing — Salagir and the team should completely ignore me. That’s what artists do. They follow the vision, not the crowd. Even if the vision makes some fans scream into the void (or at their keyboards), it’s still their vision. And they are putting in the work — consistently, passionately, for years. That earns my respect, even when I disagree.
We don’t need artists who cater. We need artists who risk, who dare, who throw creative punches even if they don’t all land. Salagir and his team aren’t engineers building a bridge to please everyone. They’re artists launching a spaceship fueled by emotion and imagination. Sometimes it crashes. Sometimes it lands on a new planet. Either way, it’s a hell of a ride.
So yeah, call me disappointed, but also call me grateful. Because I’d rather have artists who take swings than ones who play it safe. I express my thoughts not to change the vision but to relate to the rest of the community going through the same experience that I am.
And at my house, we still stan bold storytelling — even when it breaks our hearts or makes us go “…really? You're going with that??” 2 Replie(s)
Bird Mountain
July 6th
Ayashi was saying:
First of all, I very much doubt the finale fight is going to be three pages long... but putting that aside, this fight IS very much "Dragon Ball".
What it isn't is "Dragon Ball Z".
First of all, I very much doubt the finale fight is going to be three pages long... but putting that aside, this fight IS very much "Dragon Ball".
What it isn't is "Dragon Ball Z".
Thanks for your perspective. You're right — maybe there's a twist coming, and I'd honestly welcome that. But based on what we've seen — the announcer declaring a winner, the reactions of the characters, and the clear visual cues — it's not unreasonable to conclude the fight is over. If it's a fake-out, cool. But until then...
Now, on to the Dragon Ball vs Dragon Ball Z point.
I think you're missing the mark a bit by saying this feels like Dragon Ball but not Z. Let’s actually look at the original Dragon Ball — the one with all the martial arts tournaments — because that’s what this whole multiverse event is modeled after, right?
Goku vs Jackie Chun (Roshi):
That was a fantastic match — full of humor, skill, and tension. Both fighters gave their all. Goku lost, but it felt earned. Roshi's goal was to inspire Goku to keep growing, and the match delivered on that narrative beautifully. No cheap tricks. No one-shot gimmicks. Just a hard-fought, character-rich battle.
Goku vs Grandpa Gohan (Fortuneteller Baba's Tournament):
Emotionally powerful. Goku wanted to prove his growth. Gohan didn’t cast any instant-win spells. The early rounds may have had gimmicks, but this match, like the others, culminated in heartfelt, meaningful action.
Goku vs Tien Shinhan:
A long, intense fight. No instant victory here. It was a turning point for Tien’s character — the resolution of the Crane vs Turtle narrative. Goku loses again, but no one felt cheated. Tien earned his win, and the audience (in-universe and out) respected it. That’s storytelling payoff.
Goku vs Piccolo (23rd Budokai):
This was the gold standard. Life-and-death stakes within tournament rules. Goku barely wins in a dramatic finish no one could see coming. No spells, no narrative shortcuts. Just raw skill, strategy, and a final confirmation that Goku had become the strongest in the world — and earned it.
You say this feels like Dragon Ball. But I don't think it does — not the Dragon Ball I know. None of those finales ended with a cheap trick or a single spell that bypassed everything the characters (and readers) had invested in. Toriyama used magic sparingly and purposefully, because he knew too much of it could unravel the tension and undermine character growth. Ki could counter magic, yes — but only through effort, training, and buildup.
Narrative structure matters, and this ending doesn't feel like Dragon Ball or Z. It feels like something emotionally disconnected from the legacy it's trying to build on. 1 Replie(s)
Bird Mountain
July 5th
Kanyon was saying:
Wow the amount of people who think this is the end of the comic like there's a page or two left, is so astonishing. There will be a twist, just have faith. It's not over just yet.
Not every comment about an ending is talking about the ending of the comic. Regardless of the status of the comic itself, this is an ending. It is the end of the tournament, an end to this arc, an end to this part of the story.
Bird Mountain
July 5th
This is a classic case of "technically clever, emotionally empty" storytelling.
Look, I get it — XXI is a magical behemoth with a hacks machine up his sleeve and a PhD in plot mechanics. But watching him end the tournament with a single “abracadabra, you're done” on Goku feels like someone winning the Olympics by tripping everyone else at the starting line. Sure, it’s legal... but was it satisfying?
Did anyone really win with that outcome? Sure, XXI gets the W — but the other participants feel cheated, the in-universe audience feels cheated, and the tournament organizers probably need to hold an emergency rules summit. The whole thing undercuts the spirit of competition the event was supposed to embody. And worst of all, the buildup — all the tension and drama leading into the finals — ends up feeling meaningless, because now the only thing anyone will talk about is how the finale made it all feel hollow.
Dragon Ball has always been about the struggle — the screaming, the rising power, the impossible comebacks. Goku pulling strength from that secret plot pocket dimension buried somewhere in his plot armor. Watching him go out with less fanfare than Yamcha in a filler episode just feels... wrong. It’s like queuing up for a Super Saiyan transformation and getting a TED Talk instead.
Just because you can drop a nuke of narrative convenience doesn’t mean you should. Sometimes the most powerful storytelling move is restraint — especially in the finale of an epic multiverse tournament that’s been years in the making.
XXI may have outsmarted Goku, but it feels like the story outsmarted itself. And that’s the real K.O.
*Congratulations — you played yourself.*
Yes, I acknowledge it’s an ending. Yes, it technically makes sense within the internal logic and rules of DBM. But I don’t think it was a wise choice. And most of all, I don’t think it’s Dragon Ball — not in spirit. It has characters that look like Dragon Ball characters and talk like Dragon Ball characters, but this? This isn’t Dragon Ball. This is something else wearing its face.
Overlord — that’s it. This is Overlord cosplaying Dragon Ball. XXI (Ainz Ooal Gown) just hit Goku (Gazef) with a well-prepared time stop while giving a lecture on MMO PvP etiquette. Goku didn’t even bring anti-time-stop accessories or instant-death resist gear. Did he even prepare?
Your mileage may vary, and I mean no disrespect to the authors, artists, or fans who loved the ending. This is just my take. If you need my opinion to be trash in order to enjoy the story, please — consider it trash. No hard feelings. Most of my opinions are trash anyway. 3 Replie(s)
DB Multiverse page 2512
Look, I get it — XXI is a magical behemoth with a hacks machine up his sleeve and a PhD in plot mechanics. But watching him end the tournament with a single “abracadabra, you're done” on Goku feels like someone winning the Olympics by tripping everyone else at the starting line. Sure, it’s legal... but was it satisfying?
Did anyone really win with that outcome? Sure, XXI gets the W — but the other participants feel cheated, the in-universe audience feels cheated, and the tournament organizers probably need to hold an emergency rules summit. The whole thing undercuts the spirit of competition the event was supposed to embody. And worst of all, the buildup — all the tension and drama leading into the finals — ends up feeling meaningless, because now the only thing anyone will talk about is how the finale made it all feel hollow.
Dragon Ball has always been about the struggle — the screaming, the rising power, the impossible comebacks. Goku pulling strength from that secret plot pocket dimension buried somewhere in his plot armor. Watching him go out with less fanfare than Yamcha in a filler episode just feels... wrong. It’s like queuing up for a Super Saiyan transformation and getting a TED Talk instead.
Just because you can drop a nuke of narrative convenience doesn’t mean you should. Sometimes the most powerful storytelling move is restraint — especially in the finale of an epic multiverse tournament that’s been years in the making.
XXI may have outsmarted Goku, but it feels like the story outsmarted itself. And that’s the real K.O.
*Congratulations — you played yourself.*
Yes, I acknowledge it’s an ending. Yes, it technically makes sense within the internal logic and rules of DBM. But I don’t think it was a wise choice. And most of all, I don’t think it’s Dragon Ball — not in spirit. It has characters that look like Dragon Ball characters and talk like Dragon Ball characters, but this? This isn’t Dragon Ball. This is something else wearing its face.
Overlord — that’s it. This is Overlord cosplaying Dragon Ball. XXI (Ainz Ooal Gown) just hit Goku (Gazef) with a well-prepared time stop while giving a lecture on MMO PvP etiquette. Goku didn’t even bring anti-time-stop accessories or instant-death resist gear. Did he even prepare?
Your mileage may vary, and I mean no disrespect to the authors, artists, or fans who loved the ending. This is just my take. If you need my opinion to be trash in order to enjoy the story, please — consider it trash. No hard feelings. Most of my opinions are trash anyway. 3 Replie(s)
Bird Mountain
June 23rd
You know, it was weird that Vegeta and Nappa came to Earth and spoke perfect Japanese, such that Gokou and friends (+ friendly-enemies) were able to understand them. I mean what are the odds. And it isn't just the Scouter translating since the Scouter was broken. So weird... It is like Toriyama didn't even care about realism. And those Namekians had their own language but also spoke perfect Japanese? Who taught them? I don't believe Freeza, the emporer of the universe, would bother learning a different language when he could force the universe to speak his language. So unbelievable. Toriyama should have had his editor correct all these issues where the story does not agree with reality. I can't imagine the number of readers Toriyama lost due to these incongruous with reality elements. I suspect that they will hold back DBZ from being a worldwide success.
And as another commenter pointed out, don't get me started on units.
Jinx!
DB Multiverse page 2508
And as another commenter pointed out, don't get me started on units.
chstar was saying:
Brunom was saying: Ok, that second panel was pretty funny.
iron leaf was saying: Interesting detail. XXI counts in years, not minutes. The paneling looks cool on this page. You could bring that in more often. And nice to see Eleim for a change.
It still doesn't make much sense to use Earth's year as a measurement for a Universal entity, but ok
When the entire multiverse speaks English for our ease, I suppose we can accept an Earth year as a universal measurement for our ease too.
iron leaf was saying: Interesting detail. XXI counts in years, not minutes. The paneling looks cool on this page. You could bring that in more often. And nice to see Eleim for a change.
It still doesn't make much sense to use Earth's year as a measurement for a Universal entity, but ok
When the entire multiverse speaks English for our ease, I suppose we can accept an Earth year as a universal measurement for our ease too.
Jinx!
Bird Mountain
June 22nd
Justanotherturtle was saying:
ZenBuu was saying: Very weird take on your side here. You don't seem to understand Goku's and Vegeta's rivalry at all. Especially Vegeta's character development. But of course it's again Salagir who can't write... sigh, it's always the same. If a reader dislikes something, it's always the fault of the author who can't write his own story.
If Vegeta chooses not to capitalise on a very blatant opening his opponent leaves him in the middle of a fight, that's not respect, that's pity. Are you telling me Vegeta's character development means he now pities Goku? It's almost like he's saying, "I don't even need to exploit his blatant openings because I am so much better."
ZenBuu was saying: Very weird take on your side here. You don't seem to understand Goku's and Vegeta's rivalry at all. Especially Vegeta's character development. But of course it's again Salagir who can't write... sigh, it's always the same. If a reader dislikes something, it's always the fault of the author who can't write his own story.
If Vegeta chooses not to capitalise on a very blatant opening his opponent leaves him in the middle of a fight, that's not respect, that's pity. Are you telling me Vegeta's character development means he now pities Goku? It's almost like he's saying, "I don't even need to exploit his blatant openings because I am so much better."
I do not know for certain if Vegeta pities Gokou since Vegeta isn't always forthcoming with his emotions. The only person that I know pities is Mr. T. Mr. T pities the fools. You know, no one ever asks why he pities the fools. I think it is assumed that fools are to be pitied because they are fools.
I suppose if Vegeta were to pity the fools, especially in the old days, I imagine he would pity them for not recognizing they were up against a superior opponent, while they continue to double down on tactics that have been proven ineffective. They continue down bad paths against a marvel like Vegeta. They struggle with weak tactics against a far stronger opponent. How pathetic. How can they be shown what they are tying to do is ineffective then double down on it. They are too pathetic to know better or worse, it is actually insulting. I don't think Gokou fits in this category in Vegeta's eyes. Has Vegeta ever fought dirty? Sure, but that is not who he is anymore — even by the end of Z. He doesn't just want to defeat Gokou,he wants to prove he is better than Gokou. Can you believe that lower-class trash has the gall to stand up to me a super-elite, the prince of all Saiyans? That trash became a Super-Saiya-Jin before me — I have to surpass him. He and I challenge each other to reach new heights that neither of us would have reached without the other — he's a great fighter, and I am not going to fall behind and will surpass him one day.
Vegeta doesn't want to win by a dirty trick. "You let your guard down too easily when you're not paying attention," doesn't translate into the type of victory that Vegeta wants for his pride and ego. The type of Vegeta you're suggesting would poison Gokou's food to gain an advantage. He would weaken Gokou, defeat him, then never fight him again to say that he is stronger than Gokou. That's not Vegeta as I recognize him nor do I think most fans recognize that Vegeta.
Is Gokou the fool who needs pity from Vegeta? Not in the least. Gokou is a fighting genius, and they have mutual respect for each other. Neither of them wants to win unless it's a fully fair fight.
Besides, it has been a trope of DB that when a powerful character appears it is said, "{Character X} appears relaxed and open, but there is not a single opening," or something to that effect usually being followed up with a "What kind of training did they undergo?" or a "their training must have been very intense." The tactic you suggested may not be, in story, the great tactic that you think it is.
I don't see Gokou or Vegeta in the story failing to recognize they are doubling down on very flawed tactics against a much superior opponent. I suppose the only pitying going is Mr. T's and probably commenters pitying each other. I know it is the exception that a commenter doubles down on a flawed point here, but it does happen. And I suppose Vegeta, and Mr. T, and I do pity those fools and hope they get better. I am sure every commenter does.
Speaking of which, I do pity the fool that is South Kai-O-Shin though. You think he is suffering from the madness of order?
CompactCoven was saying:
Justanotherturtle was saying: If Vegeta chooses not to capitalise on a very blatant opening his opponent leaves him in the middle of a fight, that's not respect, that's pity. Are you telling me Vegeta's character development means he now pities Goku? It's almost like he's saying, "I don't even need to exploit his blatant openings because I am so much better."
It's not pity, it's not stupidity, it's Vegeta wanting to have a good fight with Goku where they both give it their all at %100
As soon as they were powered up and were fighting, they were perfectly willing to fight tricky and exploit openings, but that's once they're both ready. Beating Goku by ambushing him before either of them can transform to their best state wouldn't give him any chance to push himself against an equal opponent
The only reason he would ever decide to just try to blitz Goku like that is if he spontaneously decided winning a random tournament (with a prize of dragonballs, that nobody from their universe needs) is more important than improving himself against his longtime rival.
You can't just try to insult the writer for not removing all motivation and nuance from these characters and turning them into emotionless sacks of meat with ki every time they step into the arena (Which is where a LOT of critique comes from in the comments I see, especially when it comes to out-of-arena interactions)
It's not pity, it's not stupidity, it's Vegeta wanting to have a good fight with Goku where they both give it their all at %100
As soon as they were powered up and were fighting, they were perfectly willing to fight tricky and exploit openings, but that's once they're both ready. Beating Goku by ambushing him before either of them can transform to their best state wouldn't give him any chance to push himself against an equal opponent
The only reason he would ever decide to just try to blitz Goku like that is if he spontaneously decided winning a random tournament (with a prize of dragonballs, that nobody from their universe needs) is more important than improving himself against his longtime rival.
You can't just try to insult the writer for not removing all motivation and nuance from these characters and turning them into emotionless sacks of meat with ki every time they step into the arena (Which is where a LOT of critique comes from in the comments I see, especially when it comes to out-of-arena interactions)
Yay, what this person said too. Now, I pity myself for not having read this comment before posting mine. I wasted a lot of words saying the same thing. I feel like I just got training telling me that I have too much wasted movement.
Bird Mountain
May 11th
Dear Son Bra,
I am sorry. I blamed you for all the acts of evil and ignorance that you committed over the comic. I had assumed that you had some adult supervision and guidance that you disregarded. While the comics clearly show that to have been the case at some points in your life, it is clear that you have been raised, in part at least, by the stupidest man in the universe. He just ate an objectively bad bean.
Everyone who has been to Central America knows the potential explosive consequences of eating the bad beans. The results are very stinky and covers everything in the worst substance. Your father, a man who literally has entered the body of another male (oh my), knows the damage that can be inflicted from the inside. He even had Buu enter him through his mouth to make Vegetto explode (also scandalous). Your father was able to take all of Buu in his mouth, but it came... With consequences. One of those consequences was Buu forcing Vegetto to hit himself many times, which meant that Vegetto had to damage himself to damage Buu. Vegetto was lucky having this man inside him did not leave any lasting medical issues, but after it was over, he was spewing pink goo for awhile as Buu reassembled himself.
I recount your father's history not to tell stories out of school, but in order to tell you that he should have known better than to put strange objects inside himself. While he has been lucky in the past and he has a God complex, in your universe, Gods are not all that great and are still subject to mortal dangers. It just illustrates that perhaps he is so reckless and idiotic that I judged you too harshly given your parenting and role-models. Perhaps, Vegetto wasn't a good dad and that lead you down the path of arrogance, carelessness, and evil disregard for your's and others' safety.
In sum, I am so sorry, Son Bra. I thought you were the one failing to listen and use common sense, but it turns that it was me who was failing to listen and use common sense. I did not see Vegetto for who he really was. I hope you will forgive me for my harshness. I can never be in your universe, but I hope my trans-universal apology reaches you well.
Sincerely,
Your future Number One fan,
Bird Mountain
DB Multiverse page 2489
I am sorry. I blamed you for all the acts of evil and ignorance that you committed over the comic. I had assumed that you had some adult supervision and guidance that you disregarded. While the comics clearly show that to have been the case at some points in your life, it is clear that you have been raised, in part at least, by the stupidest man in the universe. He just ate an objectively bad bean.
Everyone who has been to Central America knows the potential explosive consequences of eating the bad beans. The results are very stinky and covers everything in the worst substance. Your father, a man who literally has entered the body of another male (oh my), knows the damage that can be inflicted from the inside. He even had Buu enter him through his mouth to make Vegetto explode (also scandalous). Your father was able to take all of Buu in his mouth, but it came... With consequences. One of those consequences was Buu forcing Vegetto to hit himself many times, which meant that Vegetto had to damage himself to damage Buu. Vegetto was lucky having this man inside him did not leave any lasting medical issues, but after it was over, he was spewing pink goo for awhile as Buu reassembled himself.
I recount your father's history not to tell stories out of school, but in order to tell you that he should have known better than to put strange objects inside himself. While he has been lucky in the past and he has a God complex, in your universe, Gods are not all that great and are still subject to mortal dangers. It just illustrates that perhaps he is so reckless and idiotic that I judged you too harshly given your parenting and role-models. Perhaps, Vegetto wasn't a good dad and that lead you down the path of arrogance, carelessness, and evil disregard for your's and others' safety.
In sum, I am so sorry, Son Bra. I thought you were the one failing to listen and use common sense, but it turns that it was me who was failing to listen and use common sense. I did not see Vegetto for who he really was. I hope you will forgive me for my harshness. I can never be in your universe, but I hope my trans-universal apology reaches you well.
Sincerely,
Your future Number One fan,
Bird Mountain
Bird Mountain
April 18th
le nuage was saying:
Royaken was saying: I see some people worrying this is the end... is it just me and I'm not seeing it? Because I see no indicators. Looks like your typical 100 page bonus like was done before.
The next page is the real 200th one and it will be the last.
The next page is the real 200th one and it will be the last.
The final joke got me — punchline me. Well, I guess my comment won't be as impactful now, and I will have to delete my account due to the shame of having posted my comment early. Don't expect a new comment next week. I have embarrassed myself enough for a lifetime.
Bird Mountain
April 17th
Noooooooo!!! It ended. We need the Synder cut of Chibi Bra. Where's the director's cut with weeks of extra footage? What about the encore? The sequel series? I will sign a petition?! No?
Hey, serious jokes aside, you did some excellent work here, and I, for one, really loved this comic. It was great week after week. I am sad to see it end and for you to move on from this comic. But at least we got what we got, and what we got was special. Thanks for all the good memories and funny moments. I hope you find another project that keeps your creative spirit alight.
Sincerely,
Me
Webpage dbm_chibi-son-bra_200.html
Hey, serious jokes aside, you did some excellent work here, and I, for one, really loved this comic. It was great week after week. I am sad to see it end and for you to move on from this comic. But at least we got what we got, and what we got was special. Thanks for all the good memories and funny moments. I hope you find another project that keeps your creative spirit alight.
Sincerely,
Me
Bird Mountain
February 11th
I would like to request the summary if we can't get more pages. I quite enjoy this comic, and I thought the art was amazing! I have to know what was going to happen.
1 Replie(s)
DB Blancoverse page 102
Bird Mountain
February 10th
If anyone on the next panel says Mitty, I will lose it. There will be tears and laughter and tears from laughter. If you know, you know. If you don't, watch Made in Abyss, and don't spoil it for yourself.
DBMultiverse Special OAV - Broly Final War page 65
Bird Mountain
February 10th
ZenBuu was saying:
Bird Mountain was saying: Looks really cool, but I can't seem to keep continuity with Gogeta's SSJ state. It seems every page is a roulette wheel of Super Saiya-Jin.
SSJ3 to normal back to SSJ? was Ultra Instinct thrown in there? Who knows. Back to SSJ3. Next page, maybe he will be using Kai-Oh-Ken next page.
Or as monster suggests, he may split.
Funny how it takes multiple people (Gogeta is a fusion of two people) to make the Rainbow Rasengan like in Naruto. I guess it is a lore accurate reference.
Gogeta was a SSJ3 the whole time, except for page 58 (well until page 61), where Old Kai told him to power down to his base.
After that he went SSJ3 again. Look at the missing eyebrows. But to be fair, at first I also thought he's just in SSJ the last pages.
That being said, awesome page. Kinda wish I could've also colored something in this comic. :D
SSJ3 to normal back to SSJ? was Ultra Instinct thrown in there? Who knows. Back to SSJ3. Next page, maybe he will be using Kai-Oh-Ken next page.
Or as monster suggests, he may split.
Funny how it takes multiple people (Gogeta is a fusion of two people) to make the Rainbow Rasengan like in Naruto. I guess it is a lore accurate reference.
Gogeta was a SSJ3 the whole time, except for page 58 (well until page 61), where Old Kai told him to power down to his base.
After that he went SSJ3 again. Look at the missing eyebrows. But to be fair, at first I also thought he's just in SSJ the last pages.
That being said, awesome page. Kinda wish I could've also colored something in this comic. :D
Thanks for the correction. Even the great Toriyama has been known to make mistakes... I missed the eye brows because I was too focused on the hair. Wait, I guess I was focused on hair in the wrong spot. Wait... That's even worse sounding. I meant I was looking at his head. Not in that way... not that there's anything wrong with that... Geez. You know what I mean.
Bird Mountain
February 10th
Looks really cool, but I can't seem to keep continuity with Gogeta's SSJ state. It seems every page is a roulette wheel of Super Saiya-Jin.
SSJ3 to normal back to SSJ? was Ultra Instinct thrown in there? Who knows. Back to SSJ3. Next page, maybe he will be using Kai-Oh-Ken next page.
Or as monster suggests, he may split.
Funny how it takes multiple people (Gogeta is a fusion of two people) to make the Rainbow Rasengan like in Naruto. I guess it is a lore accurate reference. 1 Replie(s)
DBMultiverse Special OAV - Broly Final War page 65
SSJ3 to normal back to SSJ? was Ultra Instinct thrown in there? Who knows. Back to SSJ3. Next page, maybe he will be using Kai-Oh-Ken next page.
Or as monster suggests, he may split.
Funny how it takes multiple people (Gogeta is a fusion of two people) to make the Rainbow Rasengan like in Naruto. I guess it is a lore accurate reference. 1 Replie(s)
Bird Mountain
February 8th
BangBang was saying:
Yeah, amazing self control there.
Yep. Indeed it is. I can only hear Kronk saying, "I hope that does not come back to haunt me." Then, Majin Bra appears in foreshadowing shadow.
Let's try this parenting logic in other situations.
Scenario 1:
Bra is on a strict diet for a modeling gig. Vegetto leaves a Double-Powered Donut Pancake Surprise on the table. It’s oozing chocolate, glowing with divine energy, and humming the theme song of temptation itself. Bra watches an internet model, gets depressed, then devours the dessert in a single bite.
Vegetto: “I know you didn’t mean to eat that. You’ve passed the self-control test.”
Everyone: “…Vegetto, that’s not how self-control works.”
Bra now uses the new Ozempic called Majin to lose weight fast.
Scenario 2:
Bra, now motivated by Vegetto’s “wisdom,” decides to test herself further. She goes to a political rally for a party she despises. It’s a heated event, kind of like a tournament that has a lot of villains in it. Someone says something so absurd that it triggers her Saiyan instincts.
In an effort to “just slap them a little,” she punches them so hard they are killed and sent to the front of the line to meet King Yemma.
Vegetto: “I know you didn’t mean to vaporize them into quantum nothingness. You’ve passed the self-control test.”
Cops: “Blonde girl!!! Get down on the ground!!! Place your hands behind your back!!! You’re under arrest.”
Vegetto stands there with his thumbs up smiling as if in an 70/80’s TV show ending card with ending song playing. (This is of what Officer Barbrady in Chicken Lover was a parody. Police Squad used to do these in a hilarious way too. Both of those are old references.)
One can only hope that the jury is politically aligned with Bra and even then… Regardless, this is how you get genocides.
Scenario 3:
In Vegetto’s next masterclass in self-control, he takes Bra, a recovering drug addict, to a drug house.
Vegetto: “We’re training self-control. You got this!”
Bra: “Yeah, I got this.” Bra walks into the house alone. While walking alone, Bra remembers how she was alone for most of youth. Her father was always off fighting battles to save the universe, but he never had time for her. These thoughts bring up so many bad feelings buried beneath her false confidence and bravado. Despite her best efforts, Bra caves in and takes drugs.
Vegetto: “I know you didn’t mean to relapse. You’ve passed the self-control test.”
Judge: “Mr. Vegetto, I am going to throw the book at her as if Broly threw it. She’s on parole after killing her brother and an entire civilization. I told you after her parole she had better be a more model citizen than Mother Theresa. Doing drugs and killing people is not model citizen, Mr. Vegetto. You hear me, Ms. Bra. Any of this getting into your thick Saiyan skull? I am revoking your parole, Ms. Bra. Take her into custody, Officer Ghast. ”
Bra on trial:
Speaking of court can you imagine the trial of Son Bra?
Goten on the stand.
Goten (in an oddly refined British accent): “She murdered me.”
Defense Barrister (adjusting monocle): “She murdered you?”
Goten: “I got better.”
The defense barrister pounces:
“Your Honor, as my client’s alleged victim is standing here alive, the charge of murder is inappropriate! Murder must be permanent! Temporary death does not sustain the charge.”
Crown Prosecutor: “Murder is simply the unlawful act of rendering a person dead. If someone is at any point so unquestionably, scientifically, and morally dead that they stand in line to meet King Yemma or meet King Yemma himself, then the charge of murder is sustained—
(dramatic pause)
—regardless of divine resurrections, time-traveling medical interventions, or wish-granting dragons.”
Judge: “Hmm… Is it the case that murder assumes death is permanent? And because of that assumption, does the charge then become inappropriate?”
Crown Prosecutor: “Your Honor, the state religion acknowledges at least two persons for whom death was not permanent. It would be grossly inconsistent for the Crown to deny that possibility now!”
Judge: “Mr. Crown Prosecutor, you may proceed.”
Defense Barrister: ”Your honor, we do have an appeal on your decision to disallow a Sheron wish for the trial to end in not guilty for the Defense, and, as Your Honor remembers, we are waiting for the Dragon Balls to gather enough energy to grant wishes again after having wished Bra’s vi— friends back to life after an alleged incident. I would like to renew my motion to continue the trial until such decision is rendered as it may make the trial moot.”
Judge: “You have to have the trial in order to wish it ended a certain way. Let’s proceed.”
Bird Mountain
February 6th
happywarrior99 was saying:
Are you sure? On this page U5 XXI is show planning to something to U16 Bra. U5 XXI calling U16 Bra beautiful implies that he wants to posses her body.
Friendly reminder that the Bra show on Bardock's visions from page 418 has U18 Bra's svelte body type instead of having U16 Bra's muscles, and the Bra show on that vision has a ponytail, a ponytail that U16 Bra does not have anymore since her talk with U18 Bra.
Are you sure? On this page U5 XXI is show planning to something to U16 Bra. U5 XXI calling U16 Bra beautiful implies that he wants to posses her body.
Friendly reminder that the Bra show on Bardock's visions from page 418 has U18 Bra's svelte body type instead of having U16 Bra's muscles, and the Bra show on that vision has a ponytail, a ponytail that U16 Bra does not have anymore since her talk with U18 Bra.
I meant she will be okay if Vegetto takes a few minutes to do what Goten suggests is take a dump.
Regardless, I forgot how much I liked the ponytail; she looked cute with it. Thanks for reminder.
As far as Bardock's vision... I can only assume that Bra has been replaced by an evil multiverse twin... wait, she's the evil twin (joke). Maybe there is a shapeshifter or perhaps there was a wish on some Dragon Balls for more rubber bands. But I suppose, you're ultimately correct that I don't know if Bra will be okay, and even though I think she is a young lady who needs to mature, I hope she is okay in the end.
(I am just joking back with you. Don't take my response as serious advocacy of any position.) (edited to keep my message below)
Bird Mountain
February 6th
SuperKamiGuru was saying:
She is such a spoiled Brat.
Vegito didn't ignore her, he said "hang on". Obviously there's an emergency.
Vegito didn't ignore her, he said "hang on". Obviously there's an emergency.
I have to say that was my first thought too. You walk up to someone and start a conversation, and they say hang on in the first few syllables, you don't get to act all upset. You may have been interrupting them when you started talking. She can't place herself in the frame of mind of others. Please, Bra, have a little bit of patience; nothing you are about to say was so important that it can't wait (from the characters' perspectives) for a short time. You have a whole ceremony and an another battle before it becomes urgent. Plus, you kind of acted unilaterally without the rest of your universe's buy-in. If they needed to know so badly, perhaps they should have been told before you did what you did. Obviously, you thought they could wait to find out.
And it doesn't make it retroactively okay if she would have said something relevant in hindsight by future plot developments; what she knows is that there is no problem at the moment, and there is merely not urgent information to convey.
I know there is only a single panel, but she could have considered that they exist in a universe that has people who can sense things remotely that other's cannot. Maybe consider there are other things going on besides you.
"Hey daddy, I am your little girl, and I am entitled to be heard by you any time I have something to say regardless of what you have going on, or I will get upset and be so mad at you, Daddy. I will tell everyone how abusive you are, Daddy. I have the post to social media ready, Daddy! I just have to hit send. Next, your other children will go see King Kai for a few days if you don't turn around and listen to me right now, Daddy." I know she's not saying that exactly, but she can come off a little bit like that when she doesn't consider that there are more things going on in others' lives than what's going on in Bra's life.
Yeah, it is a normal response, but it is also not correct when people do it normally. If I walk up to my boss, and start talking and she says hang on because she had something important to take care of, I don't act a little bit hurt because my boss was ignoring me. That is a lot unprofessional, and if I were to complain, my coworkers would definitely tell me to stop. I go back to my boss, and I ask, "Hey,boss, is now a good time? You know that thing that I screwed up? Yeah, it is way worse than I thought." And that is how I became familiar with the unemployment laws in my state.
I don't think Bra is the devil, and I just chalk this up to being an immature teenager who is a little bit rude. She will be okay.
Also, Goten for the win for defusing the unnecessary situation by giving Vegetto the benefit of the doubt. 1 Replie(s)
Bird Mountain
February 4th
Damian Qualshy was saying:
Chibaku Tensei?
You thought no one would notice your joke/pun. But I did, and I thought it was a good one.
Master Krillen's face while riding the boat is priceless. Krillen improved Vegeta's life. I want to study under Master Krillen, he knows how to do big things with so little. He gets things way out of his league, and I am impressed. 1 Replie(s)
Bird Mountain
February 2nd
ZenBuu was saying:
Bird Mountain was saying: What does victim blaming mean in this context? Also, what does getting reported for victim blaming mean?
I don't want to anger the mods and/or get unfairly or unjustly reported for having an opinion on Bra's culpability. Honestly, I don't know the limits and parameters of the rules at the moment because of the no victim blaming and getting reported if you victim blame thing. One can argue that everything Bra is and does is in some way caused by the precieved (and it is even unclear who is the one has to perceive) abuse, and every criticism of Bra is victim blaming. I am not trying to backseat mod; I am seeking clarity.
You know, I just realized that I am writing a comment to seek rules clarity on whether or not I can express a negative opinion on a fictional character, and that seems ridiculous to me.
I think the rules are pretty clear to understand for most people and we are sometimes even pretty relaxed about it and not so harsh, otherwise the comment section would be a lot more empty. So to be clear again, as long as you don't get rude and insult or trying to provoke other people here, you should be fine.
As for reporting, those reports do basically not much (I read all comments anyway), in the end it's still the moderators who decide if that report is justified or not and if we have to intervene. Actually, this can even backfire, if you abuse the report function. Just Saiyan. :D
I don't want to anger the mods and/or get unfairly or unjustly reported for having an opinion on Bra's culpability. Honestly, I don't know the limits and parameters of the rules at the moment because of the no victim blaming and getting reported if you victim blame thing. One can argue that everything Bra is and does is in some way caused by the precieved (and it is even unclear who is the one has to perceive) abuse, and every criticism of Bra is victim blaming. I am not trying to backseat mod; I am seeking clarity.
You know, I just realized that I am writing a comment to seek rules clarity on whether or not I can express a negative opinion on a fictional character, and that seems ridiculous to me.
I think the rules are pretty clear to understand for most people and we are sometimes even pretty relaxed about it and not so harsh, otherwise the comment section would be a lot more empty. So to be clear again, as long as you don't get rude and insult or trying to provoke other people here, you should be fine.
As for reporting, those reports do basically not much (I read all comments anyway), in the end it's still the moderators who decide if that report is justified or not and if we have to intervene. Actually, this can even backfire, if you abuse the report function. Just Saiyan. :D
Thanks, ZB. That does clear things up for me. I appreciate the the clarity.
Bird Mountain
February 2nd
What does victim blaming mean in this context? Also, what does getting reported for victim blaming mean?
I don't want to anger the mods and/or get unfairly or unjustly reported for having an opinion on Bra's culpability. Honestly, I don't know the limits and parameters of the rules at the moment because of the no victim blaming and getting reported if you victim blame thing. One can argue that everything Bra is and does is in some way caused by the precieved (and it is even unclear who is the one has to perceive) abuse, and every criticism of Bra is victim blaming. I am not trying to backseat mod; I am seeking clarity.
You know, I just realized that I am writing a comment to seek rules clarity on whether or not I can express a negative opinion on a fictional character, and that seems ridiculous to me. 1 Replie(s)
DB Multiverse page 2449
I don't want to anger the mods and/or get unfairly or unjustly reported for having an opinion on Bra's culpability. Honestly, I don't know the limits and parameters of the rules at the moment because of the no victim blaming and getting reported if you victim blame thing. One can argue that everything Bra is and does is in some way caused by the precieved (and it is even unclear who is the one has to perceive) abuse, and every criticism of Bra is victim blaming. I am not trying to backseat mod; I am seeking clarity.
You know, I just realized that I am writing a comment to seek rules clarity on whether or not I can express a negative opinion on a fictional character, and that seems ridiculous to me. 1 Replie(s)
Bird Mountain
February 2nd
Super Gojita 3 was saying:
Bird Mountain was saying: AberrantDesign was saying:
This reads like a reply, but I have absolutely no idea who you're talking to
I am not trying to respond to anyone in particular. If I did, I think it would cause more issues. I decided to make a general statement and hope for the best. Sorry for the confusion.
ANON was saying: Bird Mountain was saying:
My fellow Earthicans, this is a comic
Most triumphant!
@PrimeFighter,
doing my thing? What is my thing? Haha hahaha, and yes, I do appreciate being able to do my thing. (Referring to a comment that seems to gone the way of Zen Buu from the tournament).
Super Gojita 3 was saying:
Stuff about parents, fusion, and Bra's inability to fight Babidi's magic.
Maybe Bra couldn't fight the spell like Vegeta, but for me, this once again shows the irresponsibility of Vegetto and Gohan and Piccolo. Bra has clearly been unstable and having a Broly/Vegeta inability to control her more negative aspects. As has been pointed out, she committed genocide and fratricide, and she's on her way to being the most powerful being in her universe. Bringing Bra to a tournament where one MAY encounter Babidi is entirely reckless, especially as the tournament continued and they actually see Babidi. Bra should have been trained to resist such things and to limit the negative aspects of her personality so that she doesn't fall prey to such attacks. Vegetto, while perhaps susceptible to the spell as well, at least has a reasonable basis to believe that he is either immune (Gokou's nature) or completely resistant via Vegeta's experience. Even if Vegetto fell pray to it, I think it would be a mistake or unforeseen as opposed to Bra, who was completely predictable. Looking at the entirety of the situation and not just the microcosm of tournament, Bra is a grave threat to her universe. Vegetto may be unstable himself, but while he may be a strict father and a little bit more Vegeta in the Saiyan saga than Gokou fighting Devil Man, nothing I have seen makes him a likely intergalactic threat to the universe. Vegetto could fall prey to something that renders him under an evil being's control or exaggerates his worst traits, but Vegetto on his own with no external influence is not going to blow up the entire universe. Based on the history of the universe and the tournament, we can only hope that Bra does not lose control and blow up the universe. And, that's a stark difference between Bra and Vegetto that I hope is not glosssed over.
Furthermore, even if Bra couldn't resist the spell, it doesn't necessarily excuse her behavior. She did no (or little) reflection on her behavior after killing her brother and blowing up an entire civilization. She did no (or little) reflection on her behavior upon nearly killing her father. These were warning signs that she was heading for disaster, but she continued like she was the greatest thing since before hydrogen.
Let's analogize here for a minute to hopefully gain some insight into the morality of the situation — in hopes we can understand each other better. I liken Bra's situation to a repeated drunk driver. Bra has been busted by the cops multiple times driving drunk. She was told not to do it anymore, even threatened with extreme penalties. She continues to drink and drive. She even caused a major accident that cost peoples' lives, and due to a technical legal loophole (like there was an error on the warrant to draw her blood even though the results show she was many times over the limit), she did not go to jail when she should have. Wow, what luck! Maybe she will reflect now... Nope. After a few weeks, she's at it again. She's drunk and driving again. But this time, someone else ran a red light in front of her, and she swerved and killed several families in a few vehicles. You can say that it was the red light runner who ultimately caused everything, but regardless, Bra is going to jail, and for a lot more than just another simple drunk driving charge. Maybe in the final situation, her actions may have been the same even if she was sober, but she wasn't. She placed herself in the situation in which she knew she was impaired. And ultimately, we may never know how much her drunkenness contributed to the accident.
So, to me, and I suspect others, Bra fighting in the tournament is getting drunk behind the wheel again. Bra's genocide and fratricide are the equivalent of killing a family or two while being drunk (drunk is equivalent to SSJ2). She side-swipped another car while drunk by nearly killing Vegetto in space. She killed Zangya while drunk.
By allowing her in the tournament and to continue in the tournament, her father and brother and green dad handed her a beer and the keys and said remember to stay between the lines this time, kiddo. I do not accept the Babidi defense for the overall situation while I do agree that it is a mitigating factor, though a small mitigating factor, in the Majin arc. I know people will have differing mileage on this idea, but it is not insanity to view the Majin spell as a continuation of Bra's bad behavior even if she wasn't directly responsible for all the bad things that happened.
I truly hope Bra has completely changed and grown from Majinization, but as everyone has pointed out, it has only been a day. She needs more history and demonstrated growth to earn my trust that she is different now, and honestly, narratively, I may not want her to be all good now. I may want her to continue to struggle and struggle in a way to provide more growth to her arc and provide more drama for the other characters to deal with. I may want her to fail and force the other fighters to deal with her and struggle with what must be done. I can hate Bra, as a person, while also appreciating her role in the narrative and potential for good story.
I know this is not the response you are expecting because I am side-stepping the issue of whether Bra could or could not resist the spell. I honestly am not sure. Vegetto seems to think she could have or at least should have been able to. Bra and most of the rest of the cast thinks the best way to treat Bra's alcoholism is to give her better beer and drinking buddies. <--- that's a joke. They think she couldn't resist it. I think she should have been able to resist it, but I do think her own self-control issues prevented her from being able to resist it. Her inability to control her SSJ2 nature had already reduced her ability to exercise her will in that state, and the spell was another layer on top. Vegeta was not one to lose control of himself in Great Ape nor SSJ2 so he could focus his will much easier to resist Babidi. (to repeat the point though, if Bra could control herself in SSJ2 normally...)
(though I am harsh to Bra here. I am actually a huge proponent of jury nullification for prosecution overreach and overzealousness. I don't look to convict is my point.)
>(though I am harsh to Bra here. I am actually a huge proponent of jury nullification for prosecution overreach and overzealousness. I don't look to convict is my point.)
ok. on that note, I doubt being a biological heir to vegeta or vegetto matters, as kakarot who is goku, was unable to resist the majin seal either. and goku himself was immune.
I don't think biology is the issue or parents.
vegeta was immune because he deliberately made himself a target, braced for it, and was able to muster the mental fortitude despite babadis magic being too strong for 99% of the universes evil doers.
So it could very well be that bra is just not mentally fortified, and she was asleep when she was brain washed, didn't see it coming and so on. so of course she couldn't resist.
bra, on the contrary, she was ideal for being a brain washed servant.
she's not a pure good being, let alone pure evil, and that mental imbalance would corrupt more, imo.
she's also got control issues. think like rage mode gohan, but on steroids, and we did see this a bit with ssj goku and ssj2 gohan. later he did seem to control this, but gohan wanted to torture cell and make him suffer.
ssj2 bra is just a wild berserker, until recently that is.
This reads like a reply, but I have absolutely no idea who you're talking to
I am not trying to respond to anyone in particular. If I did, I think it would cause more issues. I decided to make a general statement and hope for the best. Sorry for the confusion.
ANON was saying: Bird Mountain was saying:
My fellow Earthicans, this is a comic
Most triumphant!
@PrimeFighter,
doing my thing? What is my thing? Haha hahaha, and yes, I do appreciate being able to do my thing. (Referring to a comment that seems to gone the way of Zen Buu from the tournament).
Super Gojita 3 was saying:
Stuff about parents, fusion, and Bra's inability to fight Babidi's magic.
Maybe Bra couldn't fight the spell like Vegeta, but for me, this once again shows the irresponsibility of Vegetto and Gohan and Piccolo. Bra has clearly been unstable and having a Broly/Vegeta inability to control her more negative aspects. As has been pointed out, she committed genocide and fratricide, and she's on her way to being the most powerful being in her universe. Bringing Bra to a tournament where one MAY encounter Babidi is entirely reckless, especially as the tournament continued and they actually see Babidi. Bra should have been trained to resist such things and to limit the negative aspects of her personality so that she doesn't fall prey to such attacks. Vegetto, while perhaps susceptible to the spell as well, at least has a reasonable basis to believe that he is either immune (Gokou's nature) or completely resistant via Vegeta's experience. Even if Vegetto fell pray to it, I think it would be a mistake or unforeseen as opposed to Bra, who was completely predictable. Looking at the entirety of the situation and not just the microcosm of tournament, Bra is a grave threat to her universe. Vegetto may be unstable himself, but while he may be a strict father and a little bit more Vegeta in the Saiyan saga than Gokou fighting Devil Man, nothing I have seen makes him a likely intergalactic threat to the universe. Vegetto could fall prey to something that renders him under an evil being's control or exaggerates his worst traits, but Vegetto on his own with no external influence is not going to blow up the entire universe. Based on the history of the universe and the tournament, we can only hope that Bra does not lose control and blow up the universe. And, that's a stark difference between Bra and Vegetto that I hope is not glosssed over.
Furthermore, even if Bra couldn't resist the spell, it doesn't necessarily excuse her behavior. She did no (or little) reflection on her behavior after killing her brother and blowing up an entire civilization. She did no (or little) reflection on her behavior upon nearly killing her father. These were warning signs that she was heading for disaster, but she continued like she was the greatest thing since before hydrogen.
Let's analogize here for a minute to hopefully gain some insight into the morality of the situation — in hopes we can understand each other better. I liken Bra's situation to a repeated drunk driver. Bra has been busted by the cops multiple times driving drunk. She was told not to do it anymore, even threatened with extreme penalties. She continues to drink and drive. She even caused a major accident that cost peoples' lives, and due to a technical legal loophole (like there was an error on the warrant to draw her blood even though the results show she was many times over the limit), she did not go to jail when she should have. Wow, what luck! Maybe she will reflect now... Nope. After a few weeks, she's at it again. She's drunk and driving again. But this time, someone else ran a red light in front of her, and she swerved and killed several families in a few vehicles. You can say that it was the red light runner who ultimately caused everything, but regardless, Bra is going to jail, and for a lot more than just another simple drunk driving charge. Maybe in the final situation, her actions may have been the same even if she was sober, but she wasn't. She placed herself in the situation in which she knew she was impaired. And ultimately, we may never know how much her drunkenness contributed to the accident.
So, to me, and I suspect others, Bra fighting in the tournament is getting drunk behind the wheel again. Bra's genocide and fratricide are the equivalent of killing a family or two while being drunk (drunk is equivalent to SSJ2). She side-swipped another car while drunk by nearly killing Vegetto in space. She killed Zangya while drunk.
By allowing her in the tournament and to continue in the tournament, her father and brother and green dad handed her a beer and the keys and said remember to stay between the lines this time, kiddo. I do not accept the Babidi defense for the overall situation while I do agree that it is a mitigating factor, though a small mitigating factor, in the Majin arc. I know people will have differing mileage on this idea, but it is not insanity to view the Majin spell as a continuation of Bra's bad behavior even if she wasn't directly responsible for all the bad things that happened.
I truly hope Bra has completely changed and grown from Majinization, but as everyone has pointed out, it has only been a day. She needs more history and demonstrated growth to earn my trust that she is different now, and honestly, narratively, I may not want her to be all good now. I may want her to continue to struggle and struggle in a way to provide more growth to her arc and provide more drama for the other characters to deal with. I may want her to fail and force the other fighters to deal with her and struggle with what must be done. I can hate Bra, as a person, while also appreciating her role in the narrative and potential for good story.
I know this is not the response you are expecting because I am side-stepping the issue of whether Bra could or could not resist the spell. I honestly am not sure. Vegetto seems to think she could have or at least should have been able to. Bra and most of the rest of the cast thinks the best way to treat Bra's alcoholism is to give her better beer and drinking buddies. <--- that's a joke. They think she couldn't resist it. I think she should have been able to resist it, but I do think her own self-control issues prevented her from being able to resist it. Her inability to control her SSJ2 nature had already reduced her ability to exercise her will in that state, and the spell was another layer on top. Vegeta was not one to lose control of himself in Great Ape nor SSJ2 so he could focus his will much easier to resist Babidi. (to repeat the point though, if Bra could control herself in SSJ2 normally...)
(though I am harsh to Bra here. I am actually a huge proponent of jury nullification for prosecution overreach and overzealousness. I don't look to convict is my point.)
>(though I am harsh to Bra here. I am actually a huge proponent of jury nullification for prosecution overreach and overzealousness. I don't look to convict is my point.)
ok. on that note, I doubt being a biological heir to vegeta or vegetto matters, as kakarot who is goku, was unable to resist the majin seal either. and goku himself was immune.
I don't think biology is the issue or parents.
vegeta was immune because he deliberately made himself a target, braced for it, and was able to muster the mental fortitude despite babadis magic being too strong for 99% of the universes evil doers.
So it could very well be that bra is just not mentally fortified, and she was asleep when she was brain washed, didn't see it coming and so on. so of course she couldn't resist.
bra, on the contrary, she was ideal for being a brain washed servant.
she's not a pure good being, let alone pure evil, and that mental imbalance would corrupt more, imo.
she's also got control issues. think like rage mode gohan, but on steroids, and we did see this a bit with ssj goku and ssj2 gohan. later he did seem to control this, but gohan wanted to torture cell and make him suffer.
ssj2 bra is just a wild berserker, until recently that is.
Yay! We have some agreement here. I agree she is like a berserker in SSJ2, until recently (hopefully no longer). I agree she has control issues like Gohan on steroids! And yeah, Gohan and Gokou get corrupted by SSJ forms, which is supposedly one of the reasons why Genki Dama can't be used in a SSJ form.
I can agree that Vegeta may have prepared himself some, but it was not a once and done type of thing. Vegeta had to exert himself until Babidi gave up trying to give him orders. Every time Babidi ordered him to kill KaiOhShin, Vegeta had to really exert himself. While some preparation may have helped initially, I don't think it is a total or even the greatest factor in Vegeta's ability to resist. This to me implies that Bra, if she was more mature and able to control herself in SSJ2 better, could have resisted each command and each action, even if she initially did not resist. This suggests to me that perhaps her berserker state has more to do with it than her initial reaction to being controlled.
I still believe Majin Bra was a great idea, and having her fail to resist is a great narrative idea. I am not trying to say that she should have resisted from a story perspective. I am saying from a moral culpability and why I don't like her as a person perspective to be clear.
Bird Mountain
February 2nd
AberrantDesign was saying:
This reads like a reply, but I have absolutely no idea who you're talking to
This reads like a reply, but I have absolutely no idea who you're talking to
I am not trying to respond to anyone in particular. If I did, I think it would cause more issues. I decided to make a general statement and hope for the best. Sorry for the confusion.
ANON was saying:
Bird Mountain was saying:
My fellow Earthicans, this is a comic
My fellow Earthicans, this is a comic
Most triumphant!
@PrimeFighter,
doing my thing? What is my thing? Haha hahaha, and yes, I do appreciate being able to do my thing. (Referring to a comment that seems to gone the way of Zen Buu from the tournament).
Super Gojita 3 was saying:
Stuff about parents, fusion, and Bra's inability to fight Babidi's magic.
Stuff about parents, fusion, and Bra's inability to fight Babidi's magic.
Maybe Bra couldn't fight the spell like Vegeta, but for me, this once again shows the irresponsibility of Vegetto and Gohan and Piccolo. Bra has clearly been unstable and having a Broly/Vegeta inability to control her more negative aspects. As has been pointed out, she committed genocide and fratricide, and she's on her way to being the most powerful being in her universe. Bringing Bra to a tournament where one MAY encounter Babidi is entirely reckless, especially as the tournament continued and they actually see Babidi. Bra should have been trained to resist such things and to limit the negative aspects of her personality so that she doesn't fall prey to such attacks. Vegetto, while perhaps susceptible to the spell as well, at least has a reasonable basis to believe that he is either immune (Gokou's nature) or completely resistant via Vegeta's experience. Even if Vegetto fell pray to it, I think it would be a mistake or unforeseen as opposed to Bra, who was completely predictable. Looking at the entirety of the situation and not just the microcosm of tournament, Bra is a grave threat to her universe. Vegetto may be unstable himself, but while he may be a strict father and a little bit more Vegeta in the Saiyan saga than Gokou fighting Devil Man, nothing I have seen makes him a likely intergalactic threat to the universe. Vegetto could fall prey to something that renders him under an evil being's control or exaggerates his worst traits, but Vegetto on his own with no external influence is not going to blow up the entire universe. Based on the history of the universe and the tournament, we can only hope that Bra does not lose control and blow up the universe. And, that's a stark difference between Bra and Vegetto that I hope is not glosssed over.
Furthermore, even if Bra couldn't resist the spell, it doesn't necessarily excuse her behavior. She did no (or little) reflection on her behavior after killing her brother and blowing up an entire civilization. She did no (or little) reflection on her behavior upon nearly killing her father. These were warning signs that she was heading for disaster, but she continued like she was the greatest thing since before hydrogen.
Let's analogize here for a minute to hopefully gain some insight into the morality of the situation — in hopes we can understand each other better. I liken Bra's situation to a repeated drunk driver. Bra has been busted by the cops multiple times driving drunk. She was told not to do it anymore, even threatened with extreme penalties. She continues to drink and drive. She even caused a major accident that cost peoples' lives, and due to a technical legal loophole (like there was an error on the warrant to draw her blood even though the results show she was many times over the limit), she did not go to jail when she should have. Wow, what luck! Maybe she will reflect now... Nope. After a few weeks, she's at it again. She's drunk and driving again. But this time, someone else ran a red light in front of her, and she swerved and killed several families in a few vehicles. You can say that it was the red light runner who ultimately caused everything, but regardless, Bra is going to jail, and for a lot more than just another simple drunk driving charge. Maybe in the final situation, her actions may have been the same even if she was sober, but she wasn't. She placed herself in the situation in which she knew she was impaired. And ultimately, we may never know how much her drunkenness contributed to the accident.
So, to me, and I suspect others, Bra fighting in the tournament is getting drunk behind the wheel again. Bra's genocide and fratricide are the equivalent of killing a family or two while being drunk (drunk is equivalent to SSJ2). She side-swipped another car while drunk by nearly killing Vegetto in space. She killed Zangya while drunk.
By allowing her in the tournament and to continue in the tournament, her father and brother and green dad handed her a beer and the keys and said remember to stay between the lines this time, kiddo. I do not accept the Babidi defense for the overall situation while I do agree that it is a mitigating factor, though a small mitigating factor, in the Majin arc. I know people will have differing mileage on this idea, but it is not insanity to view the Majin spell as a continuation of Bra's bad behavior even if she wasn't directly responsible for all the bad things that happened.
I truly hope Bra has completely changed and grown from Majinization, but as everyone has pointed out, it has only been a day. She needs more history and demonstrated growth to earn my trust that she is different now, and honestly, narratively, I may not want her to be all good now. I may want her to continue to struggle and struggle in a way to provide more growth to her arc and provide more drama for the other characters to deal with. I may want her to fail and force the other fighters to deal with her and struggle with what must be done. I can hate Bra, as a person, while also appreciating her role in the narrative and potential for good story.
I know this is not the response you are expecting because I am side-stepping the issue of whether Bra could or could not resist the spell. I honestly am not sure. Vegetto seems to think she could have or at least should have been able to. Bra and most of the rest of the cast thinks the best way to treat Bra's alcoholism is to give her better beer and drinking buddies. <--- that's a joke. They think she couldn't resist it. I think she should have been able to resist it, but I do think her own self-control issues prevented her from being able to resist it. Her inability to control her SSJ2 nature had already reduced her ability to exercise her will in that state, and the spell was another layer on top. Vegeta was not one to lose control of himself in Great Ape nor SSJ2 so he could focus his will much easier to resist Babidi. (to repeat the point though, if Bra could control herself in SSJ2 normally...)
(though I am harsh to Bra here. I am actually a huge proponent of jury nullification for prosecution overreach and overzealousness. I don't look to convict is my point.) 1 Replie(s)
Bird Mountain
February 1st
Oh, everyone who disagrees with me about a character is very often, if not always, irrational. Also, let me list all the qualities of a character that may lead someone to have a different opinion than I do while I call them completely irrational.
My fellow Earthicans, this is a comic, and it is okay if someone rationally or irrationally hates or loves a character. Our pearls are not going anywhere. I may like octopus on pizza, and you may not. Whether you do or not doesn't change my enjoyment of pizza. I can read 100k comments that say octopus on pizza is awful, and I will still enjoy my pizza. Substitute Bra for pizza, and you get octopus on Bra. She would probably look cute with octopus on her.
I meant that it doesn't matter if all of you had a different opinion on her. It means you have different tastes and see things differently. It doesn't mean you are irrational necessarily; it provides no evidence either way on that question. I don't have to justify liking or disliking anyone. I have dated girls that I couldn't explain why I liked them (I am lying; I imagined dating...). She just had it going on, and even today years after going our separate ways, I just like her. I know she has flaws, and there are legit criticisms I have and others have of her (I did break up with her, and I would not date her again), but none of that changes how I feel no matter how well or unwell I defend my reasons for liking her. Sometimes feelings are just feelings and have justifications that even the feeler may not be aware of consciously. Many opinions do not have to refer to something objective. Liking or disliking do not refer to facts, unlike if I were to say it is my "opinion" that Bra is 48 years old. Therefore, in the liking case as opposed to the age "opinion", the liking opinion is inherently true because my opinion is my opinion. It is self-validating where age can be validated against external to the "opinion" information. (The age example is simple in order to communicate the idea. We can use different examples, but it may be less clear)
This is an insidious game that we play here. If I don't agree with your assessment of Bra, I can ask (or demand) an explanation of why you think differently. Graciously, you offer your explanation. I can always claim, even reasonably or logically, that your explanation is insufficient to justify your assessment. I can always claim that; obviously you do think it is sufficient because you hold that opinion. (This is the problem of sufficiency, and there is a great illustration of it in a book called What Achilles said to the Tortoise). I can also always reject the premise upon which you base your opinion too, but that's just opening another layer here. Basically, I can be rational in my rejection of your rationally based opinion. In other words two perfectly rational beings can rationally reject each other's arguments. This just means that unless all parties agree and engage with the same rules and limitations, communication (the transfer of one idea from one person to another) is impossible, even with a googolplexian of words.
Now, especially with media (culture) and politics (redundant I know), we have emotional and other interests in the outcome. Will something I love become something I don't love? Or will it remain something that I love? So, we will rely on the fallacy of popularity. If more people in comments agree with me, especially the mods who have authority, I am correct and rational while everyone else is irrational. But, that's a self-defeating take since it is fallacious and irrational. We have to rely on this popularity and authority take because there is no real objective test for liking or disliking a character or person. Our opinions are just as valid. Liking Bra is equally as valid as disliking her. There is no objective answer, and in this case, I think she is designed to cause controversy (if it is indeed intended I applaud the decision to do so, nothing gets the mind and passions going like controversy).
Instead of celebrating the diverse people who come to comment and share their perspectives, we must establish an orthodoxy, a correct opinion, a correct take, and the good guys vs the bad guys. You can't dislike Bra for being what she was (is) and doing what she did; that is insufficient justification and you did not express yourself in the manner and language in which I demand in order for me to validate your opinion. Sure, you can demand that I express my feelings and opinions in a certain manner, but I am not obligated to do so in order to have a true and valid opinion. My opinion in of itself is a true and valid opinion because I have it.
I understand the psychological and evolutionary biological and anthropological reasons that we are all engaged in this self-selection within the community over whether one should or should not like a character in a story, but I keep hoping to find a place (or make a place) that allows for these different opinions and allows for nuance. I bet if you asked Salagir, he would do things differently if he had the opportunity.
While I do express the above sentiments, the writers and artists are such brave and amazing people. I highly respect them for giving us a forum to discuss things, and they allow and engage with criticism (founded or unfounded). My criticisms where they are are small potatoes to the the respect I have for all who create and subject that creation to criticism. I may think we should have turned left at the last junction, but I am not driving the car...and that means something.
I have to go so I am posting unedited. I would have removed a lot if I didn't have to go. Sorry. (lightly edited for missing words and stuff) 2 Replie(s)
DB Multiverse page 2449
My fellow Earthicans, this is a comic, and it is okay if someone rationally or irrationally hates or loves a character. Our pearls are not going anywhere. I may like octopus on pizza, and you may not. Whether you do or not doesn't change my enjoyment of pizza. I can read 100k comments that say octopus on pizza is awful, and I will still enjoy my pizza. Substitute Bra for pizza, and you get octopus on Bra. She would probably look cute with octopus on her.
I meant that it doesn't matter if all of you had a different opinion on her. It means you have different tastes and see things differently. It doesn't mean you are irrational necessarily; it provides no evidence either way on that question. I don't have to justify liking or disliking anyone. I have dated girls that I couldn't explain why I liked them (I am lying; I imagined dating...). She just had it going on, and even today years after going our separate ways, I just like her. I know she has flaws, and there are legit criticisms I have and others have of her (I did break up with her, and I would not date her again), but none of that changes how I feel no matter how well or unwell I defend my reasons for liking her. Sometimes feelings are just feelings and have justifications that even the feeler may not be aware of consciously. Many opinions do not have to refer to something objective. Liking or disliking do not refer to facts, unlike if I were to say it is my "opinion" that Bra is 48 years old. Therefore, in the liking case as opposed to the age "opinion", the liking opinion is inherently true because my opinion is my opinion. It is self-validating where age can be validated against external to the "opinion" information. (The age example is simple in order to communicate the idea. We can use different examples, but it may be less clear)
This is an insidious game that we play here. If I don't agree with your assessment of Bra, I can ask (or demand) an explanation of why you think differently. Graciously, you offer your explanation. I can always claim, even reasonably or logically, that your explanation is insufficient to justify your assessment. I can always claim that; obviously you do think it is sufficient because you hold that opinion. (This is the problem of sufficiency, and there is a great illustration of it in a book called What Achilles said to the Tortoise). I can also always reject the premise upon which you base your opinion too, but that's just opening another layer here. Basically, I can be rational in my rejection of your rationally based opinion. In other words two perfectly rational beings can rationally reject each other's arguments. This just means that unless all parties agree and engage with the same rules and limitations, communication (the transfer of one idea from one person to another) is impossible, even with a googolplexian of words.
Now, especially with media (culture) and politics (redundant I know), we have emotional and other interests in the outcome. Will something I love become something I don't love? Or will it remain something that I love? So, we will rely on the fallacy of popularity. If more people in comments agree with me, especially the mods who have authority, I am correct and rational while everyone else is irrational. But, that's a self-defeating take since it is fallacious and irrational. We have to rely on this popularity and authority take because there is no real objective test for liking or disliking a character or person. Our opinions are just as valid. Liking Bra is equally as valid as disliking her. There is no objective answer, and in this case, I think she is designed to cause controversy (if it is indeed intended I applaud the decision to do so, nothing gets the mind and passions going like controversy).
Instead of celebrating the diverse people who come to comment and share their perspectives, we must establish an orthodoxy, a correct opinion, a correct take, and the good guys vs the bad guys. You can't dislike Bra for being what she was (is) and doing what she did; that is insufficient justification and you did not express yourself in the manner and language in which I demand in order for me to validate your opinion. Sure, you can demand that I express my feelings and opinions in a certain manner, but I am not obligated to do so in order to have a true and valid opinion. My opinion in of itself is a true and valid opinion because I have it.
I understand the psychological and evolutionary biological and anthropological reasons that we are all engaged in this self-selection within the community over whether one should or should not like a character in a story, but I keep hoping to find a place (or make a place) that allows for these different opinions and allows for nuance. I bet if you asked Salagir, he would do things differently if he had the opportunity.
While I do express the above sentiments, the writers and artists are such brave and amazing people. I highly respect them for giving us a forum to discuss things, and they allow and engage with criticism (founded or unfounded). My criticisms where they are are small potatoes to the the respect I have for all who create and subject that creation to criticism. I may think we should have turned left at the last junction, but I am not driving the car...and that means something.
I have to go so I am posting unedited. I would have removed a lot if I didn't have to go. Sorry. (lightly edited for missing words and stuff) 2 Replie(s)
Bird Mountain
February 1st
Ah yay!!! A Son Bra poop show!!!! I gotta get in on this.
I didn't like Bra pre-Majin. She's a precious scamp who was a little too full of herself despite her very concerning history of failures, and frankly, her lack of reflection on some of her acts makes her bravado worse. That being said, she was just a character that I didn't like because the story suggested that I should not like her. She's not a hero, nor anyone to look up to. She seemed like the kind of character you were meant to hope she would get her comeuppance down the road. Standard fare.
When Majinization happened, I thought it was a great idea! Give that teenage beast of a little lady a bit of humility and growth! Love it. Sadly, it ended with passive (groaaaaannnnnn), and mostly, I ended up not liking nearly all of the supposed good guys because of their recklessness in excusing Bra's objectively atrocious behavior (anyone watched Half-baked? The scene where the guy quits but says one person is cool. That's me with everyone with the cool Vegetto.). And I think this is the crux of the Bra issue for me. It isn't Bra herself; it is that Bra negatively affects my opinion of the other characters. She forces me to confront the failures of the other characters in dealing with the universal threat she is. Maybe, she has grown in the last day, but to continue to have the implicit and unchecked trust of the rest of the cast is incredibly irresponsible, and they bear a lot of responsibility for her actions. Gohan, Piccolo, Vegetto (though he wants to do something about it), Gast, Etc. Etc. Vegetto isn't immortal yet; who is going to rein her in? She goes berserk again, and she's now Broly with boobs and a limited power curve.
Anyways, what was I saying? I got distracted talking about Bra's threat. Oh, right..
Okay... So the Majin Arc while a great idea ended a little poorly. Hopefully, Bra has an active improvement and is no longer passive in her rehabilitation. I am ready to set aside for the moment the problems that I had with passive and accept that is where the story is at the moment. The Gast thing was a little bit of growth I suppose. But man, I feel a little bit teased. Okay, let's see where this goes. Gast fights the smoke monster. Cool. Now, Bra unilaterally comes up with this assessment of Gokou and XXI, and she decided on her own to barter a wish. Now, as some of you point out, Bra doesn't know everything about XXI, but we do. And We see where this is going, and when I saw this page, I immediately thought, "well, that's not going to get people to like Bra more. One screw up after another. Oof." She didn't distrust her own judgment (which has been definitively shown to be subpar) enough to see if it was a good idea with her much wiser family and support group. At least, at that point, the responsibility of what's to come would be greatly diminished (or rather more distributed among the rest of the cast).
I don't know exactly where this story is going right now, as it can branch in many directions easily. I am willing to give the story and Bra a chance at this point, but I do not think it is unreasonable for those who think Bra is an immature and irresponsible overly-powerful killer that has had insufficient character growth to expect that she is going to do something immature and reckless without sufficient consideration of the consequences that ends up putting people's lives in danger because she has a history of doing such things. And even if she doesn't know, we the audience can reasonably foresee how her actions can (and likely will) go wrong. Maybe she needs a break from controversy.
Of course of course, some people hate too much and some people defend too blindly. Yes, yes, I know. Reasonable people can disagree, and as I stated recently, part of the controversy for me is that there is such a diverse way of interpreting Bra's actions in the comments, while there seems to be too much agreement among the cast of DBM. That feels artificial to me. This is not the worst thing in the world, but I see the world from my perspective as it is the only perspective to which I have sufficient access.
Hopefully, this is an acceptable contribution to the Bra poop show.
DB Multiverse page 2449
I didn't like Bra pre-Majin. She's a precious scamp who was a little too full of herself despite her very concerning history of failures, and frankly, her lack of reflection on some of her acts makes her bravado worse. That being said, she was just a character that I didn't like because the story suggested that I should not like her. She's not a hero, nor anyone to look up to. She seemed like the kind of character you were meant to hope she would get her comeuppance down the road. Standard fare.
When Majinization happened, I thought it was a great idea! Give that teenage beast of a little lady a bit of humility and growth! Love it. Sadly, it ended with passive (groaaaaannnnnn), and mostly, I ended up not liking nearly all of the supposed good guys because of their recklessness in excusing Bra's objectively atrocious behavior (anyone watched Half-baked? The scene where the guy quits but says one person is cool. That's me with everyone with the cool Vegetto.). And I think this is the crux of the Bra issue for me. It isn't Bra herself; it is that Bra negatively affects my opinion of the other characters. She forces me to confront the failures of the other characters in dealing with the universal threat she is. Maybe, she has grown in the last day, but to continue to have the implicit and unchecked trust of the rest of the cast is incredibly irresponsible, and they bear a lot of responsibility for her actions. Gohan, Piccolo, Vegetto (though he wants to do something about it), Gast, Etc. Etc. Vegetto isn't immortal yet; who is going to rein her in? She goes berserk again, and she's now Broly with boobs and a limited power curve.
Anyways, what was I saying? I got distracted talking about Bra's threat. Oh, right..
Okay... So the Majin Arc while a great idea ended a little poorly. Hopefully, Bra has an active improvement and is no longer passive in her rehabilitation. I am ready to set aside for the moment the problems that I had with passive and accept that is where the story is at the moment. The Gast thing was a little bit of growth I suppose. But man, I feel a little bit teased. Okay, let's see where this goes. Gast fights the smoke monster. Cool. Now, Bra unilaterally comes up with this assessment of Gokou and XXI, and she decided on her own to barter a wish. Now, as some of you point out, Bra doesn't know everything about XXI, but we do. And We see where this is going, and when I saw this page, I immediately thought, "well, that's not going to get people to like Bra more. One screw up after another. Oof." She didn't distrust her own judgment (which has been definitively shown to be subpar) enough to see if it was a good idea with her much wiser family and support group. At least, at that point, the responsibility of what's to come would be greatly diminished (or rather more distributed among the rest of the cast).
I don't know exactly where this story is going right now, as it can branch in many directions easily. I am willing to give the story and Bra a chance at this point, but I do not think it is unreasonable for those who think Bra is an immature and irresponsible overly-powerful killer that has had insufficient character growth to expect that she is going to do something immature and reckless without sufficient consideration of the consequences that ends up putting people's lives in danger because she has a history of doing such things. And even if she doesn't know, we the audience can reasonably foresee how her actions can (and likely will) go wrong. Maybe she needs a break from controversy.
Of course of course, some people hate too much and some people defend too blindly. Yes, yes, I know. Reasonable people can disagree, and as I stated recently, part of the controversy for me is that there is such a diverse way of interpreting Bra's actions in the comments, while there seems to be too much agreement among the cast of DBM. That feels artificial to me. This is not the worst thing in the world, but I see the world from my perspective as it is the only perspective to which I have sufficient access.
Hopefully, this is an acceptable contribution to the Bra poop show.
Bird Mountain
January 30th
Damian Qualshy was saying:
Sayazur was saying: Damian Qualshy was saying: Man what happened to Yamcha
He died X)
Dying gives you a bad haircut?
He died X)
Dying gives you a bad haircut?
Yamcha must have gotten a shave by some sharp ice as he passed through the interdimensional ice wall.
Bird Mountain
January 30th
happywarrior99 was saying:
Even
Gast is probably depressed after losing his wish.
Because Gast is probably depressed after losing his wish and wanting to cry himself to sleep to cope with his depression.
Namekian depression.
Gast is probably depressed after losing his wish.
Because Gast is probably depressed after losing his wish and wanting to cry himself to sleep to cope with his depression.
Namekian depression.
You're saying Gast is blue? How can Gast be blue when he was flashing so much green? I personally think he is mostly green.
(yes, I know in some cultures the distinction between green and blue is not as stark as it is in the west, but it is also less funny in context.)
In other news, I am a little bit concerned with Bra. I think Vegetto needs to get her more mental health assistance. She's all over the map. They say everyone is trying to find themselves in the world, and when Bra found herself, she called herself passive. This has caused her to have a tenuous grip on reality. She's too powerful and unstable to be left unchecked. Gast is so weak for fighting Janema; this is reminiscent of Gohan watching Cell and Gokou exploring each other's bodies (aka fighting). Gohan was using his own power as a basis for comparison, and it seems like Bra was too. Now, she learned she was passive so that means she is much much weaker than before? Her self-esteem has diminished... Some may say passively? Would she have passively let Janemba have his way with her? I am appreciative of character growth. However, I prefer that growth to be strongly and actively (as opposed to passively) connected to the plot via logic and narrative necessity. I am not sure this is it.
I am sorry for using the P-word (passive) so much. Hopefully, none of you reading my comment have a sudden personality change and no longer have a consistent view on your reading comprehension and or writing skills.
As far as Gast, I am not sure if Gast is going to talk or not yet. Let's give him a chance. My mans probably needs to literally sleep. He might have a raging headache after all he's been through. I have to take a shower and sleep when I get headaches like that.
Also, he may be a freak and might need a few minutes after being naked in front of everyone. I am not judging or shaming. Just because you can't reproduce doesn’t mean the instinct is not there.
Bird Mountain
January 28th
jbame was saying:
ZidaneTribal was saying: — Vegetto depowers for whatever reason
— Broly attacks Janemba
— somehow Vegetto sustains the damage but Buu, who has not done anything, protects him and needs a rest now
The paneling is confusing.
Gogeta was told to detransform, presumably because they needed to keep his timer going for longer, because Old Kai is about to do something, then Broly does a surprise full power attack. This is literally just the last two pages, read.
— Broly attacks Janemba
— somehow Vegetto sustains the damage but Buu, who has not done anything, protects him and needs a rest now
The paneling is confusing.
Gogeta was told to detransform, presumably because they needed to keep his timer going for longer, because Old Kai is about to do something, then Broly does a surprise full power attack. This is literally just the last two pages, read.
Yare yare. ZidaneTribal, cool name, seems to have an accurate summary to me. I would guess (s)he did read the last few pages, and I read paneling to mean the structure of panels of the comic rather than story contained in the panels.
The last few pages have caused me to stop presuming any character other than Broly is actually going to do something. I suppose part of this is the premise of the story in that no one is able to do anything against Broly because he is invincible. So, the characters have to make mistakes and waste all their opportunities. However, it is very frustrating to have tons of setup with no payoff.
Chekhov's gun keeps misfiring rather than Chekhov's gun firing successfully and having Broly still emerge victorious — at times with some effort despite being invincible to make things interesting. Instead, we have setup with little payoff or immediate reversal making all the setup completely redundant and meaningless and a waste of time for the characters and the audience.
Janemba, Gogeta, Super Dee Duper Buu, the afterlife in general.
Maybe Buu exhausted himself absorbing people, and he used the last of his infinite stamina to block Gogeta (who has only attacked once) from the blast from the infinitely powerful Broly, or maybe making himself sparkle takes a lot more stamina than we estimate. Who knows? But I don't think ZidaneTribal needs to engage in remedial reading of the last few pages.
Also, isn't it funny that Buu can tank a "full" power explosion from Broly, but Gogeta can't? Does this not imply that Buu is strong enough to challenge Broly, especially assuming he is assisted (in the actual fight not from the sidelines) by Gogeta? Wait wait wait. I forgot, "Enjoy the spectacle not use what is between the spectacles." (brain is between the eye glasses to explain the comment)
Bird Mountain
January 27th
I always suspected that his rivalry with Gokou had an element of lust and desire to it. He wants Gokou to recognize and submit to him. This comic makes it a reality. Vegetto (read their kid along with his brother Gogeta) would have ended up a different character had Gokou been born a woman... I am kinda sad that this comic doesn't exist.
Also, that sack in panel three explains why everyone hits Vegeta in the sack/shaft.
Chibi Son Bra did her best! page 189
Also, that sack in panel three explains why everyone hits Vegeta in the sack/shaft.
Bird Mountain
January 27th
Bird Mountain
January 27th
Is Buu sparkling or is that ice/snow falling?
1 Replie(s)
DBMultiverse Special OAV - Broly Final War page 61
Bird Mountain
January 26th
Dislpay name was saying:
I don't like how defined they made Bra's or Vegeto's ass, i had to double check if it was like that in the original and it wasn't.
Bird Mountain was saying: Daiko was saying: Man, I remember this. People were already hating on Bra already at this point but they got really pissed when Vegetto forgave her for giving in to her anger and going against his orders.
Everyone forgives Bra. She murders her brother? Forgiven. She murders her other brother? Forgiven. We're not talking about years or decades later. We're talking about seconds to hours later, maybe a day if she was really bad. She does incredibly terrible things by anyone's standards, and she faces no consequences. This is feels artificial and inauthentic. I can only speak for myself, but I think it is terrible policy in practice and very very unrealistic for people who do terrible things (again, we are talking about this on the scale of murder not she sometimes says insensitive things) are forgiven immediately with no consequences. I mean not even OJ was forgiven immediately for his murders. People, who were literally defending themselves, still spend time in jail before trial. Even clear self-defense is controversial and some people don't forgive even after the trial. It's not that a few characters always forgive Bra; it is everyone does, which in fictional work is a miracle of God, the author.
Yeah, it makes me roll my eyes and express comments of dislike when it happens.
Not that i'm a Bra fanboy but Vegeta did way worse things and the Zfighters just let him stay around, normal people would have a big problem with Bra but these guys have more patience than entire planets so i don't personally have a problem with her on that regard (or at least not as much as i have for vegeta.)
Bird Mountain was saying: Daiko was saying: Man, I remember this. People were already hating on Bra already at this point but they got really pissed when Vegetto forgave her for giving in to her anger and going against his orders.
Everyone forgives Bra. She murders her brother? Forgiven. She murders her other brother? Forgiven. We're not talking about years or decades later. We're talking about seconds to hours later, maybe a day if she was really bad. She does incredibly terrible things by anyone's standards, and she faces no consequences. This is feels artificial and inauthentic. I can only speak for myself, but I think it is terrible policy in practice and very very unrealistic for people who do terrible things (again, we are talking about this on the scale of murder not she sometimes says insensitive things) are forgiven immediately with no consequences. I mean not even OJ was forgiven immediately for his murders. People, who were literally defending themselves, still spend time in jail before trial. Even clear self-defense is controversial and some people don't forgive even after the trial. It's not that a few characters always forgive Bra; it is everyone does, which in fictional work is a miracle of God, the author.
Yeah, it makes me roll my eyes and express comments of dislike when it happens.
Not that i'm a Bra fanboy but Vegeta did way worse things and the Zfighters just let him stay around, normal people would have a big problem with Bra but these guys have more patience than entire planets so i don't personally have a problem with her on that regard (or at least not as much as i have for vegeta.)
I recall that Vegeta did not get a free pass. Vegeta on Namek was an ally of necessity, not an ally by choice. Moreover, Vegeta was not universally loved. He was feared and not trusted, except for Bulma who just likes to live dangerously. Vegeta was largely on his own for much of the series training, and it took years before people stopped seeing him as a threat to prideful and unstable ally. It wasn't really until post-Cell, which was 3 years of training for the Androids + a year for Goku to return from Namek.
While the severity of the crimes are a factor, they are not the determining factor. For me, the ease and speed with which the cast grows to trust and forgive Bra is the largest issue.
We aren't talking about Bra and Vegeta having a different degree of the crimes (both murder as opposed to a situation like one did a hundred instances of jay-walking while the other committed two armed robberies), but Vegeta just has a higher kill count. Arguably, Vegeta has more of a justification for his actions since he was raised in the Saiyan culture with Saiyan morality at the unaccountable top level of that system too. Don't forget that his race was under the rule of Freeza too. None of that excuses Vegeta completely, but it does give a different context to Vegeta that isn't there with Bra.
While both are equally guilty of the same crimes (Vegeta has a higher number no doubt), I still think it is a reasonable position to have that Bra is more untrustworthy than Vegeta. The fact that reasonable people can differ is the issue. Why isn't there someone who thinks like this? Yes, Pan did have some fear of Bra, but this hasn't really been a factor in the Bra story. So, it feels like the hand of the author is forcing characters to think a certain way rather than characters naturally thinking a certain way because of their different perspectives. As the dude says, this is like my opinion, but look at the mixed perspectives on Bra in the comments. That should be reflected in the cast because that is real, and the lack of it is one of the reasons that it rings fake.
(You can see the same thing if you talk about Tuvix in the Star Trek Fandom. I don't think this is necessarily a Bra specific thing, but it is a Bra focused thing.)
Oh, I appreciate your perspective and point and you tanking the time to reply. Really, no sarcasm on that one. 1 Replie(s)
Bird Mountain
January 26th
Sayazur was saying:
ANON was saying: OK, this comic is too silly for me. I'm out.
Bye ^^
Bye ^^
Hello!!!
"You say, 'Goodbye' and I say, 'Hello, hello, hello'
I don't know why you say, 'Goodbye' , I say, 'Hello, hello, hello'
I don't know why you say, 'Goodbye', I say, 'Hello'" — Some British guys
Thanks for creating the comics! Also, thanks for being brave enough to come here and read the comments. That says a lot about you as a person.
I couldn't draw a comic. I would get killed by the comments here. I would put out pages and actively avoid reading the comments while pretending that I am good at what I do. This may explain why I always get yelled to at work. I try to tune out what they are saying — something about your machines and software could get someone killed one day. I just know they haven't killed anyone yet, which automatically makes me really good at what I do.
Anyways I know we all have down days, but you have created something. That is pretty amazing, and you finished it! That is also an accomplishment. There are so many people who never finish anything. Comments can point out mistakes or flaws, but hopefully, you only let the valid criticism in so that you can grow and make your future work better (again, a thing that sets you apart from so many people by being a doer and creator). Invalid criticism by people who do not know what it is actually like, doesn’t really matter. You're likely to never meet any of us in real life. We're basically AI that fill in blanks on the screen. It is great to have your work praised, but also, in the end, we don't matter much in your normal life. We don't know the conditions under which you toil.
Plus, it takes a certain type of person to blaze a new path. I can't say that I am a fan of the ice barrier idea, but I respect the fortitude it took to try that idea instead of going with the boring predictable. In order to get to the really good new stuff, sometimes we have to try different combinations of things that turn out to be not so good. So, I am grateful regardless of how I feel about the ice barrier idea that you did it.
Bird Mountain
January 25th
Daiko was saying:
Man, I remember this. People were already hating on Bra already at this point but they got really pissed when Vegetto forgave her for giving in to her anger and going against his orders.
Everyone forgives Bra. She murders her brother? Forgiven. She murders her other brother? Forgiven. We're not talking about years or decades later. We're talking about seconds to hours later, maybe a day if she was really bad. She does incredibly terrible things by anyone's standards, and she faces no consequences. This is feels artificial and inauthentic. I can only speak for myself, but I think it is terrible policy in practice and very very unrealistic for people who do terrible things (again, we are talking about this on the scale of murder not she sometimes says insensitive things) are forgiven immediately with no consequences. I mean not even OJ was forgiven immediately for his murders. People, who were literally defending themselves, still spend time in jail before trial. Even clear self-defense is controversial and some people don't forgive even after the trial. It's not that a few characters always forgive Bra; it is everyone does, which in fictional work is a miracle of God, the author.
Yeah, it makes me roll my eyes and express comments of dislike when it happens. 2 Replie(s)
Bird Mountain
January 24th
Hmmm there are some extra cracks in the color version that weren't there in the original drawing. It really draws the gaze.
DBMultiverse Colors page 284
Bird Mountain
January 23rd
Gogetto was saying:
Bird Mountain was saying: We were warned for decades about the thin ice in our universe, but we did not listen. We were told to replace the ice with something stronger like graphite or steel, but our political class (Gods, Kais, and Kai Oh Shin) said it was too expensive. How many times have we see avalanches happen because someone yelled; it's a trope because it happens so frequently. It was only a matter of time before someone yelled loud enough to cause the whole universal ice to slide off the physical plane like an avalanche and cover everything in ice. Way to go political class.
I blame you, Old (read former) Kai Oh Shin, in particular. During your term as Kai Oh Shin, how many times did you refuse to take action? This current plan is par for the type of Kai Oh Shin you were. Let's prevent Broly from destroying everything by moving him into the afterlife to only send him back to fragile mortal realm again. We only have ice holding us together, you geezer. And you know Broly has some lungs on him. We should have recalled and disqualified you when we had the chance.
(no, this is not a reference to any real politician. I don't like discussing politicians at all.)
Make snake way great again!
I blame you, Old (read former) Kai Oh Shin, in particular. During your term as Kai Oh Shin, how many times did you refuse to take action? This current plan is par for the type of Kai Oh Shin you were. Let's prevent Broly from destroying everything by moving him into the afterlife to only send him back to fragile mortal realm again. We only have ice holding us together, you geezer. And you know Broly has some lungs on him. We should have recalled and disqualified you when we had the chance.
(no, this is not a reference to any real politician. I don't like discussing politicians at all.)
Make snake way great again!
I don't like discussing politicians, but I do appreciate punny puns, especially politically neutral ones. Good one!
ap2007 was saying:
Ice wall is breaking just like in the real world ????
Yeah, you aren't aware of the ice wall that is Antarctica? It is the ice wall, guarded by the UN, that protects the oceans from flowing off the flat disc that is our planet. If we lose those walls, we lose our oceans. Didn't you learn about this in school or more likely on the internet conspiracy theory websites -- the source of all things true in the world? Totally is consistent with our real world. Why would the author have to explain the obvious physics of the ice wall breaking but on a universal scale? /s
Bird Mountain
January 23rd
Hmmm... Remember ladies when you fight men, if you wear less, it reduces the amount of blood available for muscle output in your male opponents; it is proven to weaken your opponents. Even if you don't believe those studies and conclusions, we can conduct more studies starting now. If you go this route, science thanks you.
Yamoshi Story page 56
Bird Mountain
January 23rd
We were warned for decades about the thin ice in our universe, but we did not listen. We were told to replace the ice with something stronger like graphite or steel, but our political class (Gods, Kais, and Kai Oh Shin) said it was too expensive. How many times have we see avalanches happen because someone yelled; it's a trope because it happens so frequently. It was only a matter of time before someone yelled loud enough to cause the whole universal ice to slide off the physical plane like an avalanche and cover everything in ice. Way to go political class.
I blame you, Old (read former) Kai Oh Shin, in particular. During your term as Kai Oh Shin, how many times did you refuse to take action? This current plan is par for the type of Kai Oh Shin you were. Let's prevent Broly from destroying everything by moving him into the afterlife to only send him back to fragile mortal realm again. We only have ice holding us together, you geezer. And you know Broly has some lungs on him. We should have recalled and disqualified you when we had the chance.
(no, this is not a reference to any real politician. I don't like discussing politicians at all.) 1 Replie(s)
DBMultiverse Special OAV - Broly Final War page 60
I blame you, Old (read former) Kai Oh Shin, in particular. During your term as Kai Oh Shin, how many times did you refuse to take action? This current plan is par for the type of Kai Oh Shin you were. Let's prevent Broly from destroying everything by moving him into the afterlife to only send him back to fragile mortal realm again. We only have ice holding us together, you geezer. And you know Broly has some lungs on him. We should have recalled and disqualified you when we had the chance.
(no, this is not a reference to any real politician. I don't like discussing politicians at all.) 1 Replie(s)
Bird Mountain
January 21st
Super Gojita 3 was saying:
Bird Mountain was saying: King Kindred was saying: Fortuys was saying: DestroyerOfVegetards was saying: There is still a pair of Gast's legs that Janemba cut of earlier in the fight. I wonder if Gast can make use of those old legs.
Gast is not Cell or Buu, he doesn't have a regeneration core that he can move around his body, or the ability to regenerate from any part of his body, his regeneration is sourced from his brain.
Cell got his regeneration from Piccolo and even he was unaware of his own limits. Gast is the culmination of Namek's Hope and people. His regeneration is a lot stronger than what we've seen from Namekians. He could very well have that ability to create clones using his disembodied parts.
Are we also sure that we don't have Gast Jr. running around the ring at this point? Maybe he off-screened shot an egg, à la Piccolo Daima Oh (Piccolo is what his friends call him but all his girlfriends just call him Mr. Oh or Oh My God... Technically correct), that matured. Gast could definitely mature a Gast Jr. in an accelerated time, but admittedly this would be a stretch. However, Gast is good at stretching.
Dbm canon asserts warrior types like nail and piccolo (gast as well, since his base was nail) do not reproduce. at all.
gasts wish is to either become a dragon type and be able to do so, or split back up into nail, and the rest.
Salagir basically has used the guide book data on that by coincidence, not by design because he usually ignores that.
exceptions apply, with some details from the anime are included as fan service, like king vegetas design since he wasn't in the OG manga (dbs not withstanding)
So no gast jr running about.
Gast is not Cell or Buu, he doesn't have a regeneration core that he can move around his body, or the ability to regenerate from any part of his body, his regeneration is sourced from his brain.
Cell got his regeneration from Piccolo and even he was unaware of his own limits. Gast is the culmination of Namek's Hope and people. His regeneration is a lot stronger than what we've seen from Namekians. He could very well have that ability to create clones using his disembodied parts.
Are we also sure that we don't have Gast Jr. running around the ring at this point? Maybe he off-screened shot an egg, à la Piccolo Daima Oh (Piccolo is what his friends call him but all his girlfriends just call him Mr. Oh or Oh My God... Technically correct), that matured. Gast could definitely mature a Gast Jr. in an accelerated time, but admittedly this would be a stretch. However, Gast is good at stretching.
Dbm canon asserts warrior types like nail and piccolo (gast as well, since his base was nail) do not reproduce. at all.
gasts wish is to either become a dragon type and be able to do so, or split back up into nail, and the rest.
Salagir basically has used the guide book data on that by coincidence, not by design because he usually ignores that.
exceptions apply, with some details from the anime are included as fan service, like king vegetas design since he wasn't in the OG manga (dbs not withstanding)
So no gast jr running about.
Well, that is stinky. How does that square with Daddy Piccolo Daima Oh giving birth to MAJunior (Piccolo the second)? Or is that one of those exceptions? Or was Daddy Piccolo not a warrior type? Or did Piccolo become sterile when he merged with Nail? Not questioning the cannon, but I am trying to understand the limits of the cannon.
Oh, and how rude of me not to wish Asura a happy birthday... 2 Replie(s)
Bird Mountain
January 21st
Piccolo, where are you putting those hands?
Nappa doesn't snap; he naps. Snapping is for those with more hair. Also, since Nappa already has a tail, is already a furry and thus immune to furrification?
Yamcha, I feel your pain. Now, they get it?
Also, I am leaving this here without context:
Hashire sori yo
Kaze no you ni
Tsukimihara wo
Padoru Padoru
Christmas Phipsil, I am so glad we unlocked you,
Chibi Son Bra did her best! page 188
Nappa doesn't snap; he naps. Snapping is for those with more hair. Also, since Nappa already has a tail, is already a furry and thus immune to furrification?
Yamcha, I feel your pain. Now, they get it?
Also, I am leaving this here without context:
Hashire sori yo
Kaze no you ni
Tsukimihara wo
Padoru Padoru
Christmas Phipsil, I am so glad we unlocked you,
Bird Mountain
January 20th
King Kindred was saying:
Fortuys was saying: DestroyerOfVegetards was saying: There is still a pair of Gast's legs that Janemba cut of earlier in the fight. I wonder if Gast can make use of those old legs.
Gast is not Cell or Buu, he doesn't have a regeneration core that he can move around his body, or the ability to regenerate from any part of his body, his regeneration is sourced from his brain.
Cell got his regeneration from Piccolo and even he was unaware of his own limits. Gast is the culmination of Namek's Hope and people. His regeneration is a lot stronger than what we've seen from Namekians. He could very well have that ability to create clones using his disembodied parts.
Gast is not Cell or Buu, he doesn't have a regeneration core that he can move around his body, or the ability to regenerate from any part of his body, his regeneration is sourced from his brain.
Cell got his regeneration from Piccolo and even he was unaware of his own limits. Gast is the culmination of Namek's Hope and people. His regeneration is a lot stronger than what we've seen from Namekians. He could very well have that ability to create clones using his disembodied parts.
Are we also sure that we don't have Gast Jr. running around the ring at this point? Maybe he off-screened shot an egg, à la Piccolo Daima Oh (Piccolo is what his friends call him but all his girlfriends just call him Mr. Oh or Oh My God... Technically correct), that matured. Gast could definitely mature a Gast Jr. in an accelerated time, but admittedly this would be a stretch. However, Gast is good at stretching. 1 Replie(s)
Bird Mountain
January 20th
DhangerShanger was saying:
Aha! There they are! Both the spell, and a risk for disqualification.
Bird Mountain was saying: Cool. Smoke Monster. I watched Lost so I remember the Smoke Monster. Nothing too scary here.
What I can't believe is anyone is surprised to see a smoke monster. Doesn't every marital arts tournament have a smoke monster? I think a smoke monster was UFC champion a few years ago. Nothing says martial arts like Smoke Monster, except maybe Star Wars technology.
This is the real reason why XXI always hid his true form. He's simply too embarassed to show people he's just a plain old smoke monster, see. Dude can't help but feel ashamed of his own appearance... :( Poor guy!!!
Bird Mountain was saying: Cool. Smoke Monster. I watched Lost so I remember the Smoke Monster. Nothing too scary here.
What I can't believe is anyone is surprised to see a smoke monster. Doesn't every marital arts tournament have a smoke monster? I think a smoke monster was UFC champion a few years ago. Nothing says martial arts like Smoke Monster, except maybe Star Wars technology.
This is the real reason why XXI always hid his true form. He's simply too embarassed to show people he's just a plain old smoke monster, see. Dude can't help but feel ashamed of his own appearance... :( Poor guy!!!
You know, I hadn't thought about how difficult it must be for Smoke Monsters everywhere. I can see how XXI felt the need to hide his appearance. I now feel sorry for him. I hope he wins now. I can only guess Gokou doesn't have any techniques that can affect the unalive, except maybe the Mafuba which I am not sure Gokou knows. What do you think Smoke Monster will wish for? Do you think he will wish to be a real boy?
(I loved your comment, and I felt I had to respond with more than a hahahaha and a love it! so you got a little more.) 1 Replie(s)
Bird Mountain
January 20th
Cool. Smoke Monster. I watched Lost so I remember the Smoke Monster. Nothing too scary here.
What I can't believe is anyone is surprised to see a smoke monster. Doesn't every marital arts tournament have a smoke monster? I think a smoke monster was UFC champion a few years ago. Nothing says martial arts like Smoke Monster, except maybe Star Wars technology. 1 Replie(s)
DB Multiverse page 2444
What I can't believe is anyone is surprised to see a smoke monster. Doesn't every marital arts tournament have a smoke monster? I think a smoke monster was UFC champion a few years ago. Nothing says martial arts like Smoke Monster, except maybe Star Wars technology. 1 Replie(s)
Bird Mountain
January 18th
PrimeFighter was saying:
Bird Mountain was saying: PrimeFighter was saying: Sayazur was saying: PrimeFighter was saying: Damian Qualshy was saying: Oh? Is that the plan now? But the whole point was to put Broly away from Namekians which he was flying towards at the very beginning (no idea why even)
Yeah none of this story makes any sense anymore, frankly. How was it their fault Janemba was created? We JUST saw Demon Kid blow up the purification machine through his negligence. How did Janemba survive even a single blast from this story's version of Broly who's on the level of SSJ3 Gogeta when SSJ Gogeta obliterated Janemba already? Also this Janemba is actually WEAKER than the Fusion Reborn version because all the powerful evil souls that would've contributed to Janemba's formation got put into their bodies again and absorbed by Buu. ALSO why hasn't SSJ3 Gogeta been absorbed yet by Buu? There is no reason why they wouldn't here. They gain nothing from splitting their power and NOT obliterating Broly in one go, especially after already failing their friends,familiy, and Earth to do so once already as a Buu without the absorbed fusion. At the very least, I expected Buu vs Janemba and SSJ3 Gogeta vs Broly, but idk what is happening anymore now...
— The impact between Broly and Gogeta created a shockwave that caused the soul purification machine to overload.
— Gogeta never killed Janemba; the Fusion Reborn movie never happened in DBM.
— Therefore, this Janemba is not the one from the movies.
— If I had made Buu absorb Gogeta, people would have complained because they wouldn't have seen Gogeta. I don't do it, and they still complain. So, I don't care.
— You need to stop thinking that specific souls influence Janemba's strength. He's not strong because he has the souls of certain characters but simply because he's purely evil. Frieza's soul without his body is no stronger than the soul of the farmer killed by Raditz.
— (1.) That fact wasn't portrayed clearly then in that page where the alert was.
— (2.) The movie doesn't have to happen for the fact SSJ Gogeta obliterates Janemba to be true
— (3.) I think I specifically said "this Janemba" to make that distinction, and even still, what's the explanation of the difference between THIS Janemba and Fusion Reborn Janemba
— (4.) You shouldn't have to worry about how we complain about the story. Write it as you wish, but you should worry about making things consistent and line up or reference with already existing continuity so that your story makes sense.
— (5.) Yeah, sure let's go with what you just said here for argument sake. So, what makes this Janemba stronger than Fusion Reborn Janemba to withstand a blast from a Broly who's on level with SSJ3 Gogeta?
— (6.) Lastly, this is just a blunt critique. I think I brought up some glaring points imo. If you don't care as you say, then whatever. Your story dude.
I numbered the points made above in the quote so that we can reference them easier. Also, prepare for heavy sarcasm and jokes with no intention of being mean to anyone. All points should be read as an attempt to make someone smile.
— 1. Regarding the blast from Broly and Gogeta. Clearly, you have never seen anime or read manga before. Strong winds do not just blow then something suddenly deforms and/or blows up. Other than the 10 times that I am certain you can cite as example with little thinking, it never happens. Plus, of those 10 examples, how many blow towards the ominous thing before something bad happens;I bet it is only four or five. So, even without clear connection between Broly and Gogeta and the scrubber machine, you should have been able to associate the wind with the Broly fight. I mean what other events have been depicted for you to associate? Wind (especially that strong) doesn't suddenly blow in DBM for no reason. Therefore, it is on you for not following along. Checkmate, "critic".
— 2. Since the Fusion Reborn movie did not happen in this universe, this is a completely new character, and any resemblance to another character who definitely doesn't exist is entirely your fault for associating what you think you know of this non-existant character with this clearly nearly original character. This character, who happens to share passing resemblances to the character Janemba from that movie that doesn't exist, is clearly just a demon, and not actually named Janemba (who has said his name yet? No one that is who). Please stop being in a rush, projecting preconceived notions onto the character, and let this character develop into the unique entity that he will be. Everyone knows that if you are quiet and just let it happen, you always have a great time.
— 3. THIS Janemba as opposed to THAT Janemba. First, we do not even know the character in this story's name. Just because he said Janemba doesn't mean that is his name. Also, clearly that Fusion Reborn movie doesn't exist in DBM, therefore, this character is 100% original and not characterized by said non-existent movie. Once again, "critic", do not bring outside sources of knowledge and project them onto the characters in this story. Plus, the distinction between THIS and THAT version is confusing, and it is a product of bad comment writing. Physician, heal thyself.
— 4. Where do you find these outside rules for writing? Your suggestions on what the author should care about have no basis in real art, and it shows that you are probably not a creative yourself. Creation is not limited by consistency and internal logic. Lewis Caroll wrote a very famous work that has been adapted many times in the genre of literary nonsense. I am sure you have heard of Alice in Wonderland. Moreover, in the last few years or so, pretty much every best picture and best writer Oscar went to a movie whose plot made no sense. This is clearly a winning formula, and you're right that an artist should not listen to the rambling and rabbling of the common person who demands logical consistency and literary structure. Art is meant to be experienced. You are the experiencer; you experience what the artist intends. Not all art should make you feel comfortable or enjoyment. And clearly through your own limitations, you fail to see the brilliance of the artist.
— 5. You're experiencing a subversion of your own expectations. You expect that the unnamed original character who you call Janemba should be damaged or destroyed by the Broly blast, but the author is showing you through feats the power level of the unnamed original character. You ask for his power level while the author is showing you his power level. Please you must remove your blinders to see what the artist/author is showing you. You look but do not see. You who demand story logic, but you ask the impossible. Who in the story world can compare an original character to a character from a non-existant work? Characters do not just talk to themselves about power levels. Does Gogeta need to explain to Buu how powerful the unnamed original character is? No! He can feel his ki himself. How do you show power level? Through action, and this is what you are getting. Checkmate, "critic" !
— 6. My comment is just sarcastic and completely not serious criticism of your criticism. Now, by rules of the internet, you have to be intensely incensed and respond angrily to my comment and we become hated enemies until we find something upon which we agree which will cool the fire wall — no, it will warm the icy wall — between us.
I appreciate your perspective, but what audience expects anything from the artist? Audience is supposed to be silent during the the show and just consume. For your own well-being, do not try to understand the story, merely try to experience the story. Bringing outside baggage to the story just brings more confusion. Speaking of baggage, at the airport, they tell you to label your bags because many bags look alike. So too is it the case with characters in a story. Just because it looks similar, and has a similar backstory and similar powers, doesn't mean it is the same character. Give the story a chance to breath and exist in its own world and tell its tale.
With that, I bid you adieu.
What? Surely you can't be serious that artists, who strive to be original, use characters the audience is already familiar with in different ways than from where they are taken, and it causes confusion in the audience to the point that the audience can no longer experience the art? Surely, you jest.
(Looks back)
Mr., Ms., or Mrs. PrimeFighter, I apologize. I now agree with your perspective. I have but one remaining question, how does one fight prime numbers? They can only be defeated by themselves and one. Oh, I see your genius yet again; you are the one.
Once again, adieu.
davysprocket was saying: Why is Gogeta bruised and cut up? Dude got hit like once at most and I'm pretty sure it wasn't even a clean hit,
My totally not serious head cannon is that Ssj3 brings forth all the potential in a Saiya-Jin's blood, right? Maybe as it is pulling the potential, it grabs the toxins in the blood too. Those can reduce potential output. Gokou eats just about anything, and he probably has a lot of things building up. Secondly, other world probably has a lot of artificial foods or probably has dead food mixed with alive food. In other world, alive and dead are identical. Eating broccoli that was born in other world is probably different than hero broccoli that died and went to other world. I would not be surprised if Hell would occasionally accidentally on purpose mix the two.
I guess also the arua makes everything brighter and more white. I think that and the fact that background is white is why it is not visible while Ssj3.
You took my remaining braincells before work and I'll never forgive you
Yeah none of this story makes any sense anymore, frankly. How was it their fault Janemba was created? We JUST saw Demon Kid blow up the purification machine through his negligence. How did Janemba survive even a single blast from this story's version of Broly who's on the level of SSJ3 Gogeta when SSJ Gogeta obliterated Janemba already? Also this Janemba is actually WEAKER than the Fusion Reborn version because all the powerful evil souls that would've contributed to Janemba's formation got put into their bodies again and absorbed by Buu. ALSO why hasn't SSJ3 Gogeta been absorbed yet by Buu? There is no reason why they wouldn't here. They gain nothing from splitting their power and NOT obliterating Broly in one go, especially after already failing their friends,familiy, and Earth to do so once already as a Buu without the absorbed fusion. At the very least, I expected Buu vs Janemba and SSJ3 Gogeta vs Broly, but idk what is happening anymore now...
— The impact between Broly and Gogeta created a shockwave that caused the soul purification machine to overload.
— Gogeta never killed Janemba; the Fusion Reborn movie never happened in DBM.
— Therefore, this Janemba is not the one from the movies.
— If I had made Buu absorb Gogeta, people would have complained because they wouldn't have seen Gogeta. I don't do it, and they still complain. So, I don't care.
— You need to stop thinking that specific souls influence Janemba's strength. He's not strong because he has the souls of certain characters but simply because he's purely evil. Frieza's soul without his body is no stronger than the soul of the farmer killed by Raditz.
— (1.) That fact wasn't portrayed clearly then in that page where the alert was.
— (2.) The movie doesn't have to happen for the fact SSJ Gogeta obliterates Janemba to be true
— (3.) I think I specifically said "this Janemba" to make that distinction, and even still, what's the explanation of the difference between THIS Janemba and Fusion Reborn Janemba
— (4.) You shouldn't have to worry about how we complain about the story. Write it as you wish, but you should worry about making things consistent and line up or reference with already existing continuity so that your story makes sense.
— (5.) Yeah, sure let's go with what you just said here for argument sake. So, what makes this Janemba stronger than Fusion Reborn Janemba to withstand a blast from a Broly who's on level with SSJ3 Gogeta?
— (6.) Lastly, this is just a blunt critique. I think I brought up some glaring points imo. If you don't care as you say, then whatever. Your story dude.
I numbered the points made above in the quote so that we can reference them easier. Also, prepare for heavy sarcasm and jokes with no intention of being mean to anyone. All points should be read as an attempt to make someone smile.
— 1. Regarding the blast from Broly and Gogeta. Clearly, you have never seen anime or read manga before. Strong winds do not just blow then something suddenly deforms and/or blows up. Other than the 10 times that I am certain you can cite as example with little thinking, it never happens. Plus, of those 10 examples, how many blow towards the ominous thing before something bad happens;I bet it is only four or five. So, even without clear connection between Broly and Gogeta and the scrubber machine, you should have been able to associate the wind with the Broly fight. I mean what other events have been depicted for you to associate? Wind (especially that strong) doesn't suddenly blow in DBM for no reason. Therefore, it is on you for not following along. Checkmate, "critic".
— 2. Since the Fusion Reborn movie did not happen in this universe, this is a completely new character, and any resemblance to another character who definitely doesn't exist is entirely your fault for associating what you think you know of this non-existant character with this clearly nearly original character. This character, who happens to share passing resemblances to the character Janemba from that movie that doesn't exist, is clearly just a demon, and not actually named Janemba (who has said his name yet? No one that is who). Please stop being in a rush, projecting preconceived notions onto the character, and let this character develop into the unique entity that he will be. Everyone knows that if you are quiet and just let it happen, you always have a great time.
— 3. THIS Janemba as opposed to THAT Janemba. First, we do not even know the character in this story's name. Just because he said Janemba doesn't mean that is his name. Also, clearly that Fusion Reborn movie doesn't exist in DBM, therefore, this character is 100% original and not characterized by said non-existent movie. Once again, "critic", do not bring outside sources of knowledge and project them onto the characters in this story. Plus, the distinction between THIS and THAT version is confusing, and it is a product of bad comment writing. Physician, heal thyself.
— 4. Where do you find these outside rules for writing? Your suggestions on what the author should care about have no basis in real art, and it shows that you are probably not a creative yourself. Creation is not limited by consistency and internal logic. Lewis Caroll wrote a very famous work that has been adapted many times in the genre of literary nonsense. I am sure you have heard of Alice in Wonderland. Moreover, in the last few years or so, pretty much every best picture and best writer Oscar went to a movie whose plot made no sense. This is clearly a winning formula, and you're right that an artist should not listen to the rambling and rabbling of the common person who demands logical consistency and literary structure. Art is meant to be experienced. You are the experiencer; you experience what the artist intends. Not all art should make you feel comfortable or enjoyment. And clearly through your own limitations, you fail to see the brilliance of the artist.
— 5. You're experiencing a subversion of your own expectations. You expect that the unnamed original character who you call Janemba should be damaged or destroyed by the Broly blast, but the author is showing you through feats the power level of the unnamed original character. You ask for his power level while the author is showing you his power level. Please you must remove your blinders to see what the artist/author is showing you. You look but do not see. You who demand story logic, but you ask the impossible. Who in the story world can compare an original character to a character from a non-existant work? Characters do not just talk to themselves about power levels. Does Gogeta need to explain to Buu how powerful the unnamed original character is? No! He can feel his ki himself. How do you show power level? Through action, and this is what you are getting. Checkmate, "critic" !
— 6. My comment is just sarcastic and completely not serious criticism of your criticism. Now, by rules of the internet, you have to be intensely incensed and respond angrily to my comment and we become hated enemies until we find something upon which we agree which will cool the fire wall — no, it will warm the icy wall — between us.
I appreciate your perspective, but what audience expects anything from the artist? Audience is supposed to be silent during the the show and just consume. For your own well-being, do not try to understand the story, merely try to experience the story. Bringing outside baggage to the story just brings more confusion. Speaking of baggage, at the airport, they tell you to label your bags because many bags look alike. So too is it the case with characters in a story. Just because it looks similar, and has a similar backstory and similar powers, doesn't mean it is the same character. Give the story a chance to breath and exist in its own world and tell its tale.
With that, I bid you adieu.
What? Surely you can't be serious that artists, who strive to be original, use characters the audience is already familiar with in different ways than from where they are taken, and it causes confusion in the audience to the point that the audience can no longer experience the art? Surely, you jest.
(Looks back)
Mr., Ms., or Mrs. PrimeFighter, I apologize. I now agree with your perspective. I have but one remaining question, how does one fight prime numbers? They can only be defeated by themselves and one. Oh, I see your genius yet again; you are the one.
Once again, adieu.
davysprocket was saying: Why is Gogeta bruised and cut up? Dude got hit like once at most and I'm pretty sure it wasn't even a clean hit,
My totally not serious head cannon is that Ssj3 brings forth all the potential in a Saiya-Jin's blood, right? Maybe as it is pulling the potential, it grabs the toxins in the blood too. Those can reduce potential output. Gokou eats just about anything, and he probably has a lot of things building up. Secondly, other world probably has a lot of artificial foods or probably has dead food mixed with alive food. In other world, alive and dead are identical. Eating broccoli that was born in other world is probably different than hero broccoli that died and went to other world. I would not be surprised if Hell would occasionally accidentally on purpose mix the two.
I guess also the arua makes everything brighter and more white. I think that and the fact that background is white is why it is not visible while Ssj3.
You took my remaining braincells before work and I'll never forgive you
Love it!! Glad to meet you new worst enemy. Yeah, I can see how reading all that might be a little bit much in the morning. I hope you had a great day at work.
Bird Mountain
January 17th
PrimeFighter was saying:
Sayazur was saying: PrimeFighter was saying: Damian Qualshy was saying: Oh? Is that the plan now? But the whole point was to put Broly away from Namekians which he was flying towards at the very beginning (no idea why even)
Yeah none of this story makes any sense anymore, frankly. How was it their fault Janemba was created? We JUST saw Demon Kid blow up the purification machine through his negligence. How did Janemba survive even a single blast from this story's version of Broly who's on the level of SSJ3 Gogeta when SSJ Gogeta obliterated Janemba already? Also this Janemba is actually WEAKER than the Fusion Reborn version because all the powerful evil souls that would've contributed to Janemba's formation got put into their bodies again and absorbed by Buu. ALSO why hasn't SSJ3 Gogeta been absorbed yet by Buu? There is no reason why they wouldn't here. They gain nothing from splitting their power and NOT obliterating Broly in one go, especially after already failing their friends,familiy, and Earth to do so once already as a Buu without the absorbed fusion. At the very least, I expected Buu vs Janemba and SSJ3 Gogeta vs Broly, but idk what is happening anymore now...
— The impact between Broly and Gogeta created a shockwave that caused the soul purification machine to overload.
— Gogeta never killed Janemba; the Fusion Reborn movie never happened in DBM.
— Therefore, this Janemba is not the one from the movies.
— If I had made Buu absorb Gogeta, people would have complained because they wouldn't have seen Gogeta. I don't do it, and they still complain. So, I don't care.
— You need to stop thinking that specific souls influence Janemba's strength. He's not strong because he has the souls of certain characters but simply because he's purely evil. Frieza's soul without his body is no stronger than the soul of the farmer killed by Raditz.
— (1.) That fact wasn't portrayed clearly then in that page where the alert was.
— (2.) The movie doesn't have to happen for the fact SSJ Gogeta obliterates Janemba to be true
— (3.) I think I specifically said "this Janemba" to make that distinction, and even still, what's the explanation of the difference between THIS Janemba and Fusion Reborn Janemba
— (4.) You shouldn't have to worry about how we complain about the story. Write it as you wish, but you should worry about making things consistent and line up or reference with already existing continuity so that your story makes sense.
— (5.) Yeah, sure let's go with what you just said here for argument sake. So, what makes this Janemba stronger than Fusion Reborn Janemba to withstand a blast from a Broly who's on level with SSJ3 Gogeta?
— (6.) Lastly, this is just a blunt critique. I think I brought up some glaring points imo. If you don't care as you say, then whatever. Your story dude.
Yeah none of this story makes any sense anymore, frankly. How was it their fault Janemba was created? We JUST saw Demon Kid blow up the purification machine through his negligence. How did Janemba survive even a single blast from this story's version of Broly who's on the level of SSJ3 Gogeta when SSJ Gogeta obliterated Janemba already? Also this Janemba is actually WEAKER than the Fusion Reborn version because all the powerful evil souls that would've contributed to Janemba's formation got put into their bodies again and absorbed by Buu. ALSO why hasn't SSJ3 Gogeta been absorbed yet by Buu? There is no reason why they wouldn't here. They gain nothing from splitting their power and NOT obliterating Broly in one go, especially after already failing their friends,familiy, and Earth to do so once already as a Buu without the absorbed fusion. At the very least, I expected Buu vs Janemba and SSJ3 Gogeta vs Broly, but idk what is happening anymore now...
— The impact between Broly and Gogeta created a shockwave that caused the soul purification machine to overload.
— Gogeta never killed Janemba; the Fusion Reborn movie never happened in DBM.
— Therefore, this Janemba is not the one from the movies.
— If I had made Buu absorb Gogeta, people would have complained because they wouldn't have seen Gogeta. I don't do it, and they still complain. So, I don't care.
— You need to stop thinking that specific souls influence Janemba's strength. He's not strong because he has the souls of certain characters but simply because he's purely evil. Frieza's soul without his body is no stronger than the soul of the farmer killed by Raditz.
— (1.) That fact wasn't portrayed clearly then in that page where the alert was.
— (2.) The movie doesn't have to happen for the fact SSJ Gogeta obliterates Janemba to be true
— (3.) I think I specifically said "this Janemba" to make that distinction, and even still, what's the explanation of the difference between THIS Janemba and Fusion Reborn Janemba
— (4.) You shouldn't have to worry about how we complain about the story. Write it as you wish, but you should worry about making things consistent and line up or reference with already existing continuity so that your story makes sense.
— (5.) Yeah, sure let's go with what you just said here for argument sake. So, what makes this Janemba stronger than Fusion Reborn Janemba to withstand a blast from a Broly who's on level with SSJ3 Gogeta?
— (6.) Lastly, this is just a blunt critique. I think I brought up some glaring points imo. If you don't care as you say, then whatever. Your story dude.
I numbered the points made above in the quote so that we can reference them easier. Also, prepare for heavy sarcasm and jokes with no intention of being mean to anyone. All points should be read as an attempt to make someone smile.
— 1. Regarding the blast from Broly and Gogeta. Clearly, you have never seen anime or read manga before. Strong winds do not just blow then something suddenly deforms and/or blows up. Other than the 10 times that I am certain you can cite as example with little thinking, it never happens. Plus, of those 10 examples, how many blow towards the ominous thing before something bad happens;I bet it is only four or five. So, even without clear connection between Broly and Gogeta and the scrubber machine, you should have been able to associate the wind with the Broly fight. I mean what other events have been depicted for you to associate? Wind (especially that strong) doesn't suddenly blow in DBM for no reason. Therefore, it is on you for not following along. Checkmate, "critic".
— 2. Since the Fusion Reborn movie did not happen in this universe, this is a completely new character, and any resemblance to another character who definitely doesn't exist is entirely your fault for associating what you think you know of this non-existant character with this clearly nearly original character. This character, who happens to share passing resemblances to the character Janemba from that movie that doesn't exist, is clearly just a demon, and not actually named Janemba (who has said his name yet? No one that is who). Please stop being in a rush, projecting preconceived notions onto the character, and let this character develop into the unique entity that he will be. Everyone knows that if you are quiet and just let it happen, you always have a great time.
— 3. THIS Janemba as opposed to THAT Janemba. First, we do not even know the character in this story's name. Just because he said Janemba doesn't mean that is his name. Also, clearly that Fusion Reborn movie doesn't exist in DBM, therefore, this character is 100% original and not characterized by said non-existent movie. Once again, "critic", do not bring outside sources of knowledge and project them onto the characters in this story. Plus, the distinction between THIS and THAT version is confusing, and it is a product of bad comment writing. Physician, heal thyself.
— 4. Where do you find these outside rules for writing? Your suggestions on what the author should care about have no basis in real art, and it shows that you are probably not a creative yourself. Creation is not limited by consistency and internal logic. Lewis Caroll wrote a very famous work that has been adapted many times in the genre of literary nonsense. I am sure you have heard of Alice in Wonderland. Moreover, in the last few years or so, pretty much every best picture and best writer Oscar went to a movie whose plot made no sense. This is clearly a winning formula, and you're right that an artist should not listen to the rambling and rabbling of the common person who demands logical consistency and literary structure. Art is meant to be experienced. You are the experiencer; you experience what the artist intends. Not all art should make you feel comfortable or enjoyment. And clearly through your own limitations, you fail to see the brilliance of the artist.
— 5. You're experiencing a subversion of your own expectations. You expect that the unnamed original character who you call Janemba should be damaged or destroyed by the Broly blast, but the author is showing you through feats the power level of the unnamed original character. You ask for his power level while the author is showing you his power level. Please you must remove your blinders to see what the artist/author is showing you. You look but do not see. You who demand story logic, but you ask the impossible. Who in the story world can compare an original character to a character from a non-existant work? Characters do not just talk to themselves about power levels. Does Gogeta need to explain to Buu how powerful the unnamed original character is? No! He can feel his ki himself. How do you show power level? Through action, and this is what you are getting. Checkmate, "critic" !
— 6. My comment is just sarcastic and completely not serious criticism of your criticism. Now, by rules of the internet, you have to be intensely incensed and respond angrily to my comment and we become hated enemies until we find something upon which we agree which will cool the fire wall — no, it will warm the icy wall — between us.
I appreciate your perspective, but what audience expects anything from the artist? Audience is supposed to be silent during the the show and just consume. For your own well-being, do not try to understand the story, merely try to experience the story. Bringing outside baggage to the story just brings more confusion. Speaking of baggage, at the airport, they tell you to label your bags because many bags look alike. So too is it the case with characters in a story. Just because it looks similar, and has a similar backstory and similar powers, doesn't mean it is the same character. Give the story a chance to breath and exist in its own world and tell its tale.
With that, I bid you adieu.
What? Surely you can't be serious that artists, who strive to be original, use characters the audience is already familiar with in different ways than from where they are taken, and it causes confusion in the audience to the point that the audience can no longer experience the art? Surely, you jest.
(Looks back)
Mr., Ms., or Mrs. PrimeFighter, I apologize. I now agree with your perspective. I have but one remaining question, how does one fight prime numbers? They can only be defeated by themselves and one. Oh, I see your genius yet again; you are the one.
Once again, adieu.
davysprocket was saying:
Why is Gogeta bruised and cut up? Dude got hit like once at most and I'm pretty sure it wasn't even a clean hit,
My totally not serious head cannon is that Ssj3 brings forth all the potential in a Saiya-Jin's blood, right? Maybe as it is pulling the potential, it grabs the toxins in the blood too. Those can reduce potential output. Gokou eats just about anything, and he probably has a lot of things building up. Secondly, other world probably has a lot of artificial foods or probably has dead food mixed with alive food. In other world, alive and dead are identical. Eating broccoli that was born in other world is probably different than hero broccoli that died and went to other world. I would not be surprised if Hell would occasionally accidentally on purpose mix the two.
I guess also the arua makes everything brighter and more white. I think that and the fact that background is white is why it is not visible while Ssj3. 1 Replie(s)
Bird Mountain
January 14th
Totally should have drawn Kakarotto with flat nips in panel 5 then given him the third dimension in panel 6. That would have added to the smile and rewarded those who were paying attention.
1 Replie(s)
Chibi Son Bra did her best! page 187
Bird Mountain
January 13th
Broly can't take damage from his own attacks. He is stronger when he gets hit than he was when he fired it. Broly is constantly getting stronger and that makes him more durable by the second. We know that he has gotten exponentially stronger in mere seconds based on previous feats. He's probably the equivalent of a Super Saiya-Jin 532 after the blast while he was probably a Super Saiya-Jin 275 before the blast. I mean why not? Broly has no limits except those that the author artificially put on him.
What is his infinite growth rate? When does it occur? How frequently? Broly is the DBM equivalent of playing a game of I win. It doesn't matter what you do, I win. You can only delay me winning. Broly's power is always high enough to cause drama, but always low enough to not wash and runaway completely with the main character(s). Needless to say, I am not a Broly fan.
I vote invincible to his own attacks, and only Gogeta can damage him...for now. 1 Replie(s)
DBMultiverse Special OAV - Broly Final War page 57
What is his infinite growth rate? When does it occur? How frequently? Broly is the DBM equivalent of playing a game of I win. It doesn't matter what you do, I win. You can only delay me winning. Broly's power is always high enough to cause drama, but always low enough to not wash and runaway completely with the main character(s). Needless to say, I am not a Broly fan.
I vote invincible to his own attacks, and only Gogeta can damage him...for now. 1 Replie(s)
Bird Mountain
January 10th
ZenBuu was saying:
Bird Mountain was saying: But what you're doing is filling in the gaps for the author. We all do it for works with which we are invested. And in DBZA Zarbon's voice, "Not that there is anything wrong with that." But, it is really no response to those who point out the characterization inconsistency. I suspect that you would be a good author, but as commentors, we can only work with what we have. Speculation about what the author could but hasn't done is just as valuable as speculation about what year the one after the next extinction level meteor will hit Earth. Sure, maybe it could happen, but until it materializes into something tangible with more than speculation, it is at best of little value.
Insert transition to a general comment here not really at anyone.
If you use a character from previously existing source material with which you can expect your audience is familiar without any in-story (meaning in your derivative work, derivative not in pejorative sense but that your work or parts of your work are dependent on the existence of other works) characterization, the audience can only rely on their knowledge of the character from previously existing work. If the author relies on changes to source material in a derived work in order for their story to make narrative and logical sense, (s)he must inform the audience of these changes in the story or it will confuse the audience. The audience in general will want to know these differences as soon as possible to avoid confusion setting in and to better and more easily understand the plot. If you delay, you get arguments like isn't Janemba a little bit stronger than his only appearance.
Now, it could be that we are premature, and the author intends to inform the audience of Janemba's increased power levels as compared to the original material. Or, it could be that the author intend his comment on this page to suffice. I would submit that the comment in the comments page is not a great plan.
I am of the opinion that the writing style suggests an "and this happens and this happens" style, which some works I enjoy do use too. This style suggests to me that we are going to have to just roll with it. We should turn off our analytical machines and our attention to story details, and do or do not enjoy the spectacle. Coherence with source materials or even internal consistency is not something at which even Toriyama—sensei was particularly strong.
Well, I actually agree with everything you said, especially with the part about explaining any changes in the comment section, which should be shown in the comic itself, to avoid further confusion. You make some really good points!
Sometimes I do tend to overanalyze things too here and there, but this story is probably really one of those, where you maybe shouldn't do that. For me personally, that's mostly because of Broly. Especially DBM Broly. I just don't like how extremely broken he is and he has like zero character. The only pleasant surprise was actually U3 Broly. But that's just my opinion. I'm sure there are a lot of people who still like this Broly, and that's totally fine of course.
Though one thing that actually bothered me most, was that Cell got killed immediately off screen, before we even saw the start of the fight. Especially since Cell is one of my favorite characters. Not that it would've made a huge difference later on, but I wanted to see him fight a little bit at least.
Insert transition to a general comment here not really at anyone.
If you use a character from previously existing source material with which you can expect your audience is familiar without any in-story (meaning in your derivative work, derivative not in pejorative sense but that your work or parts of your work are dependent on the existence of other works) characterization, the audience can only rely on their knowledge of the character from previously existing work. If the author relies on changes to source material in a derived work in order for their story to make narrative and logical sense, (s)he must inform the audience of these changes in the story or it will confuse the audience. The audience in general will want to know these differences as soon as possible to avoid confusion setting in and to better and more easily understand the plot. If you delay, you get arguments like isn't Janemba a little bit stronger than his only appearance.
Now, it could be that we are premature, and the author intends to inform the audience of Janemba's increased power levels as compared to the original material. Or, it could be that the author intend his comment on this page to suffice. I would submit that the comment in the comments page is not a great plan.
I am of the opinion that the writing style suggests an "and this happens and this happens" style, which some works I enjoy do use too. This style suggests to me that we are going to have to just roll with it. We should turn off our analytical machines and our attention to story details, and do or do not enjoy the spectacle. Coherence with source materials or even internal consistency is not something at which even Toriyama—sensei was particularly strong.
Well, I actually agree with everything you said, especially with the part about explaining any changes in the comment section, which should be shown in the comic itself, to avoid further confusion. You make some really good points!
Sometimes I do tend to overanalyze things too here and there, but this story is probably really one of those, where you maybe shouldn't do that. For me personally, that's mostly because of Broly. Especially DBM Broly. I just don't like how extremely broken he is and he has like zero character. The only pleasant surprise was actually U3 Broly. But that's just my opinion. I'm sure there are a lot of people who still like this Broly, and that's totally fine of course.
Though one thing that actually bothered me most, was that Cell got killed immediately off screen, before we even saw the start of the fight. Especially since Cell is one of my favorite characters. Not that it would've made a huge difference later on, but I wanted to see him fight a little bit at least.
Well, actually I agree with everything you said in your comment too. Are we now friends or something? Lol!
I am 100% on board with your Broly comment. Broly was my favorite DBZ movie, but he's become one of my least favorite stand-ins for a character. And, I am not a fan of the DBM version either. Not that I blame DBM for going the Broly route.
Actually, I know we discourage Super talk here, but this just for compare and contrast. I actually like Super Broly until he loses his mind. I get that berserker is part of his character, but I prefer the fights that have spectacle and emotional/moral/narrative weight to them. I will gladly sacrifice some spectacle (I keep using that word today. I must have a bias today. Maybe I need glasses and this is my subconscious telling me.) for some more punch in the e/m/n (see previous sentence) department. So when you get a berserker, I find it lacks the e/m/n and in order wow the fans, it has to up the spectacle to 11. Many times 11 is to the point where you don't even know what is happening, but it looks like something cool happened. I suppose that's enough for most, but I am sadly not among you. I really wish I could consume media like I did as a teen, but unfortunately time has won a few rounds on me. (I am still going for a KO in round 6 or 7)
I am also a big Cell fan. He's always been one of my favorite villains and characters. When I was a kid and moved to Japan, Cell was the big bad. Cell was everywhere. And my goodness, he was so cool looking. When my friends and I were pretending to be DBZ characters, I was always Cell and kicking the crap out of the other kids. True story — minus the friends part, I did not have friends (kidding). I have a huge soft spot for the big green menace. It was such a good idea too for the next challenge the legendary Super Saiya-Jin would face considering they were supposed to be the best warriors in the galaxy. They would have to face themselves. Brilliant! Much better than androids. Now, that I am older, I see so much wasted potential in Cell. I do not want to see Cell at the max because that was just gross, but I would have liked to see Cell reach a little more of his potential with perhaps more internal conflict based on the varying genetics and instincts that make him up.
Regardless, there is so much agreement happening that this surely cannot be the comment section of DBM. /joke
Bird Mountain
January 10th
ZenBuu was saying:
Damian Qualshy was saying: ZenBuu was saying: Who says Janemba needs to be at the exact same powerlevel as he was in fusion reborn? This movie isn't canon to DBM, or let's say it never really happened like that in all the other universes. Where XXI got Janemba from, is still a mystery. Anyway... not to mention this story here isn't canon to DBM either.
So there is some leeway here to make Janemba stronger than in fusion reborn. Timeline wise, this here is also 13 years after the Buu Saga, which could've been enough time to accumulate more evil souls for the machine to gather, thus making this Janemba here stronger in the process.
earth1superman was saying: Everyone in the universe is dead at this point. This Janemba was made with a lot more evil than any other iteration to ever be seen.
Not everyone is dead yet in this universe. At least Namek still exists for example. Broly didn't had enough time to destroy the whole universe in just one year.
But yeah, you basically think the same as me! :)
No it wouldn't let "more souls accumulate" because the reason why Janemba was born in the first place is machine OVERLOAD. Meaning it has a LIMIT. You can make the argument about the power of those souls alone, but since all of them are just clouds and no bodies (so pretty weak) means this Janemba should be on the same level as movie Janemba. Doesn't even matter, because Broly should absolutely decimate him with that previous blast, and even this hit alone should send him into the Shadow Realm.
I chuckled when I saw Broly just change focus onto the demon, completely forgetting about Gogeta, so that's a point. Doesn't fix that Janemba is here and is that much durable and yada yada, but it's still funny.
Then I would like to hear your explanation, why Janemba just appeared now and not 13 years earlier, like in fusion reborn? Broly killed a lot of people in the meantime including everyone on earth... so going by this logic, this Janemba can definitely be stronger than the one we know.
And again... Since this isn't canon to DBM, things can be changed. Same like Salagir changed Coola's revenge or the first 2 Broly movies to fit into the continuity. Which clearly seems to be the case here, otherwise Janemba would've already appeared earlier during the Buu Saga. That "limit" you are talking about, can also be higher for all we know.
Additionally, the other users here make some good arguments too.
So there is some leeway here to make Janemba stronger than in fusion reborn. Timeline wise, this here is also 13 years after the Buu Saga, which could've been enough time to accumulate more evil souls for the machine to gather, thus making this Janemba here stronger in the process.
earth1superman was saying: Everyone in the universe is dead at this point. This Janemba was made with a lot more evil than any other iteration to ever be seen.
Not everyone is dead yet in this universe. At least Namek still exists for example. Broly didn't had enough time to destroy the whole universe in just one year.
But yeah, you basically think the same as me! :)
No it wouldn't let "more souls accumulate" because the reason why Janemba was born in the first place is machine OVERLOAD. Meaning it has a LIMIT. You can make the argument about the power of those souls alone, but since all of them are just clouds and no bodies (so pretty weak) means this Janemba should be on the same level as movie Janemba. Doesn't even matter, because Broly should absolutely decimate him with that previous blast, and even this hit alone should send him into the Shadow Realm.
I chuckled when I saw Broly just change focus onto the demon, completely forgetting about Gogeta, so that's a point. Doesn't fix that Janemba is here and is that much durable and yada yada, but it's still funny.
Then I would like to hear your explanation, why Janemba just appeared now and not 13 years earlier, like in fusion reborn? Broly killed a lot of people in the meantime including everyone on earth... so going by this logic, this Janemba can definitely be stronger than the one we know.
And again... Since this isn't canon to DBM, things can be changed. Same like Salagir changed Coola's revenge or the first 2 Broly movies to fit into the continuity. Which clearly seems to be the case here, otherwise Janemba would've already appeared earlier during the Buu Saga. That "limit" you are talking about, can also be higher for all we know.
Additionally, the other users here make some good arguments too.
But what you're doing is filling in the gaps for the author. We all do it for works with which we are invested. And in DBZA Zarbon's voice, "Not that there is anything wrong with that." But, it is really no response to those who point out the characterization inconsistency. I suspect that you would be a good author, but as commentors, we can only work with what we have. Speculation about what the author could but hasn't done is just as valuable as speculation about what year the one after the next extinction level meteor will hit Earth. Sure, maybe it could happen, but until it materializes into something tangible with more than speculation, it is at best of little value.
Insert transition to a general comment here not really at anyone.
If you use a character from previously existing source material with which you can expect your audience is familiar without any in-story (meaning in your derivative work, derivative not in pejorative sense but that your work or parts of your work are dependent on the existence of other works) characterization, the audience can only rely on their knowledge of the character from previously existing work. If the author relies on changes to source material in a derived work in order for their story to make narrative and logical sense, (s)he must inform the audience of these changes in the story or it will confuse the audience. The audience in general will want to know these differences as soon as possible to avoid confusion setting in and to better and more easily understand the plot. If you delay, you get arguments like isn't Janemba a little bit stronger than his only appearance.
Now, it could be that we are premature, and the author intends to inform the audience of Janemba's increased power levels as compared to the original material. Or, it could be that the author intend his comment on this page to suffice. I would submit that the comment in the comments page is not a great plan.
I am of the opinion that the writing style suggests an "and this happens and this happens" style, which some works I enjoy do use too. This style suggests to me that we are going to have to just roll with it. We should turn off our analytical machines and our attention to story details, and do or do not enjoy the spectacle. Coherence with source materials or even internal consistency is not something at which even Toriyama—sensei was particularly strong. 1 Replie(s)
Bird Mountain
December 29th
Damian Qualshy was saying:
Bird Mountain was saying: somethings silly that should be read by no one.
Maybe she got the M-word pass from TFS, who knows
Maybe she got the M-word pass from TFS, who knows
I suppose, like the number of licks it takes to get to the center of the Tootsie Roll Pop, the world may never know.
Bird Mountain
December 27th
I am just grateful Bra did not fuse with a character with a name that ends in less -- then she might end up being Braless and very terrifying.
Also moral question: since Chibi Bio Bra is 1/2 does she get a n-word pass? She's half green but all mortal. Though I bet if asked, she would identify as godly. Does that count? Can she use nin-gen? Or can only mortals use it since it is our word for ourselves and she's good regardless? 1 Replie(s)
Chibi Son Bra did her best! page 184
Also moral question: since Chibi Bio Bra is 1/2 does she get a n-word pass? She's half green but all mortal. Though I bet if asked, she would identify as godly. Does that count? Can she use nin-gen? Or can only mortals use it since it is our word for ourselves and she's good regardless? 1 Replie(s)
Bird Mountain
December 17th
Yo, Vegetto, my man, I know your wife normally appreciates your tongue action, but if you keep talking like you're doing in the second row first panel, you're going to get your tongue sunburned or worse caught in an elevator door. Why are you using so much tongue in words that require you to flick down and pull back? Why are you putting so much emphasis on the H?
Also, until I get a more definitive reference, I can't help but hear Cartman's mocking and repeating voice when I read gnagnagna. I am pretty sure that is not the reference, but it is where the crazy train upon which my mind is but a passenger has taken us today.
P.S.
ZGrssd, you're totally right. I forgot that was a Lego Movie reference. Look at you being awesome. You're a person of good culture.
Chibi Son Bra did her best! page 183
Also, until I get a more definitive reference, I can't help but hear Cartman's mocking and repeating voice when I read gnagnagna. I am pretty sure that is not the reference, but it is where the crazy train upon which my mind is but a passenger has taken us today.
P.S.
ZGrssd, you're totally right. I forgot that was a Lego Movie reference. Look at you being awesome. You're a person of good culture.
Bird Mountain
November 12th
le nuage was saying:
Bird Mountain was saying: happywarrior99 was saying:
Yes, the Doctor Slump remake showed Arale transforming into her super saiyan form.
Man, did they have a Super Saiya-Jin bargin sale or something? Even a little robot girl can develop S-cells and get a tingling in the back? Oh, the Saiyan-ity.
On other topics, I did not mean to sound sarcastic before. I was just trying to be funny. I do appreciate the trivia and cannon information genuinely.
Nah, it's just the yellow mexican isekai filter.
Yes, the Doctor Slump remake showed Arale transforming into her super saiyan form.
Man, did they have a Super Saiya-Jin bargin sale or something? Even a little robot girl can develop S-cells and get a tingling in the back? Oh, the Saiyan-ity.
On other topics, I did not mean to sound sarcastic before. I was just trying to be funny. I do appreciate the trivia and cannon information genuinely.
Nah, it's just the yellow mexican isekai filter.
HAHAHAHAHA! I did not expect Bra's Isekai to be Mexico. That reminds me of that South Park episode where Kenny goes to Mexico and they think it is hell by mistake. Does Bra's Super Saiyan 3 form involve a poncho in this Isekai? Regardless if she went to Isekai Mexico, I was talking about Dr. Slump and Arale being Super Saiyan according to the esteemed happywarror99. I haven't read Dr. Slump so I can't verify for sure. Yellow Mexican Isekai filter really tickled me for some reason. I don't know why. Thanks for making my day a little better.
Bird Mountain
November 12th
happywarrior99 was saying:
Yes, the Doctor Slump remake showed Arale transforming into her super saiyan form.
Yes, the Doctor Slump remake showed Arale transforming into her super saiyan form.
Man, did they have a Super Saiya-Jin bargin sale or something? Even a little robot girl can develop S-cells and get a tingling in the back? Oh, the Saiyan-ity.
On other topics, I did not mean to sound sarcastic before. I was just trying to be funny. I do appreciate the trivia and cannon information genuinely. 1 Replie(s)
Bird Mountain
November 12th
happywarrior99 was saying:
U2 Mary Sue is neither a goddess nor a demigoddess. The Vargas did not mention any deity when they mentioned what species U2 Mary Sue is a hybrid of.
I don't need to know that woman's genetics or background to see that she is a goddess. Thanks for the information. I'll try to keep it in mind next time I enter a discussion regarding genetics.
Quick question for you: Do you think Arale would still give Mary Sue a massive L even in her...ehem...Lssj-Popo-Capable form? I mean she did ride out the Popo, but I am not ure even she can overcome the gag character. 1 Replie(s)
Bird Mountain
November 11th
Dang, Mr. Popo. Nice!!! Of course it would take a goddess with those abs to be able to last through the event with Mr. Popo.
1 Replie(s)
Chibi Son Bra did her best! page 178
Bird Mountain
November 5th
What will she get kicked out of the Isekai for?
Will she defeat (or become) the demon lord in seconds?
Will the New Worlders complete a reverse summoning?
Will Truck-Kun declare defeat and return her?
Chibi Son Bra did her best! page 177
Will she defeat (or become) the demon lord in seconds?
Will the New Worlders complete a reverse summoning?
Will Truck-Kun declare defeat and return her?
Bird Mountain
October 29th
Why do all of Freezer's friends prefer his older brother?
Because he is Cooler.
Chibi Son Bra did her best! page 176
Because he is Cooler.
Bird Mountain
October 21st
Wait, isn't Chibi-Bra Nega-duck... I meant Bra?
Her demonic doubles are generosity, laughter, kindness, loyalty, honesty, magic, and harmony?
Actually, this checks out. But how will the fusion defeat her? Oh, I get it. They are going to defeat her from the inside while she is fighting her better parts outside...
Chibi Son Bra did her best! page 175
Her demonic doubles are generosity, laughter, kindness, loyalty, honesty, magic, and harmony?
Actually, this checks out. But how will the fusion defeat her? Oh, I get it. They are going to defeat her from the inside while she is fighting her better parts outside...
Bird Mountain
October 15th
Ha! I will take those characters for Mortal Kombat... I meant Dragon Ball Sparking Zero — though Chibi-Bra's plot armor Blast 1 ability may be too overpowered. I am going to go ahead and ask the devs to please nerf now.
Chibi Son Bra did her best! page 174
Bird Mountain
October 8th
Man, what a reference. I had never even heard of that show until now despite being like a fine wine myself (read aged).
Also, am I the only person who kept thinking about Trunks this whole strip? That drip should have had the likeness of The Drink, formerly known as the Juice Box, also known as Trunks. Then next week, The Cup, aka Vegeta, could catch the Drink drip.
For those asking why Trunks is called the Drink, you can look it up on YouTube by a creator named kobyshinobi. Warning: Strong language. It's a rap song, but a funny weird one. I am not sure if I can post the link. 1 Replie(s)
Chibi Son Bra did her best! page 173
Also, am I the only person who kept thinking about Trunks this whole strip? That drip should have had the likeness of The Drink, formerly known as the Juice Box, also known as Trunks. Then next week, The Cup, aka Vegeta, could catch the Drink drip.
For those asking why Trunks is called the Drink, you can look it up on YouTube by a creator named kobyshinobi. Warning: Strong language. It's a rap song, but a funny weird one. I am not sure if I can post the link. 1 Replie(s)
Bird Mountain
September 30th
Okay... best page yet or at least one of the better pages so far. Made me laugh.
Chibi Son Bra did her best! page 172
Bird Mountain
September 28th
Evenmoardakka was saying:
Hey, I was just pointing out some obscure trivia!
I was kidding to be clear. I was just trying to find a way to use the word rule in a sentence with 34 to signal while I am not a man of culture, I am aware of that aspect of online culture. I am like the Captain America meme where he says I get that reference.
Bird Mountain
September 26th
Evenmoardakka was saying:
DrewSaga was saying: Bird Mountain was saying: Is that chemical XXX in the fourth panel?
Nah, it's Chemical XXI.
Chemical XXX is on Universe 34.
Nah, it's Chemical XXI.
Chemical XXX is on Universe 34.
Hey, isn't that against the rules or at least distasteful to mention in mixed company, you naughty dirty minded commenter? (/s)
Bird Mountain
September 26th
I don't know. All I know is if this page had Cold's first son in the last panel, it would be cooler.
DBMultiverse Special OAV - Broly Final War page 26
Bird Mountain
September 24th
Is that chemical XXX in the fourth panel?
1 Replie(s)
Chibi Son Bra did her best! page 171
Bird Mountain
September 22nd
iron leaf was saying:
“Who can, does. Who can't, complains.”
“Who can, does. Who can't, complains.”
Well, complaining is a skill — some of us just choose to master it! Don't interrupt others' training please. They are in the Hyperbolic Time Chamber (aka DBM) training for the big leagues of complaining on YouTube or Twitter or whatever. Maybe there will be a Tournament of Complaining arc in the near future. Wait wait wait, tournaments are overdone in DB and probably in anime as a whole. Yeah, the first few times I loved them. But, after about 30 of them, they start to lose their pizazz. I mean I get why creators keep going back to tried and true formulas, but I mean don't you want to see things evolve beyond tournaments sometimes. (I am not talking about DBM's tournament to be clear)
Bird Mountain
September 22nd
Yeah, I have fallen into the category of people who have continued to follow something they once loved years after the love has turned into something akin to hate. I hate read Bleach for years during the 1000 year blood war arc. Am I crazy? Maybe, but not for that. Is it unhealthy? Maybe, but not really as I hope you will come to agree.
They say that hate is not the opposite of love, and I agree with that, especially in media. The things that I continued to follow for years after I started to hate them were things that I loved or at least really liked at one point. Things took a change or lost some of the appeal. I stood by them for a while believing that things will change back for the better. However, things did not, and they got worse. Because I developed a habit of reading or watching the thing that I once loved and now hate, I continued to check for new media. I wanted to know how it would end too as maybe some sort of off-shoot or derivative of the sunk-cost fallacy, and then after some time, I guess I wanted to see how bad bad could get.
What's even worse though is when that media does something that gives you hope that you might start to love it again. This just sets you up for more disappointment which will enhance your negative reaction when the media returns to the slide (in your opinion). The question is where does that disappointment come from? If I completely think something is trash and has no value, why am I disappointed?
What I hope you are reading between the lines here is that hate reading or watching in some cases is not all hate. It can be an expression of love for a work. Granted a love of the work at an earlier time, but that's not necessarily a bad thing. It means that the work has impacted someone at some time in a positive way.
I know some fans hate to read constant negative messages about their beloved works, but that's a necessary consequence of living in a world where we share things with and among each other. I am not among you who believe that even my most favorite works are beyond criticism, even repeated by the same person for the same aspect, though criticism is not an excuse to be a jerk to be clear.
I think the purest form of love is love that acknowledges the truth of what that thing (or person) is — flaws and all, and loves that thing as it is knowing the truth of what something is. You love it not necessarily because of the flaws but loves the flaws too. I think that sets you up in a better position to accept that at times annoying (to you) ad nauseam repeated or constant criticism. I believe a blind to the truth fan is just as bad as a hater who has never even seen or read the work. Neither of them see the truth of the work, and that's annoying to me at least. (This is not to say that a fan must agree with any and all criticism)
Lastly, we are different people. Art is experienced in an individual way. Life's circumstances and experiences are unique for each person, and how art hits them must be taken in under their circumstances. Even a consensus of a large group of people or a commentary section is no proof that opinions are wrong. If you love or have had that love turn to hate, it doesn't matter how many people say the opposite. It doesn't suddenly make it any difference for you. Now, rightly, you may ask why debate and complain if it may not change anyone's opinion, but like art itself is a form of self-expression and an expression of individuality, so too is expressing love and criticism an expression of those things.
ZenBuu alludes to the "constructive" criticism can, "constructive" criticism is a form of gatekeeping criticism, and it is a form of silencing dissent by making the dissenter dissent in a way acceptable by those with whom they disagree. It should be seen as attempting to gain an unfair advantage in a discussion. What's "constructive" praise after all? And as far as I know, it is not a requirement for all comments to be "constructive".
DB Multiverse page 2394
They say that hate is not the opposite of love, and I agree with that, especially in media. The things that I continued to follow for years after I started to hate them were things that I loved or at least really liked at one point. Things took a change or lost some of the appeal. I stood by them for a while believing that things will change back for the better. However, things did not, and they got worse. Because I developed a habit of reading or watching the thing that I once loved and now hate, I continued to check for new media. I wanted to know how it would end too as maybe some sort of off-shoot or derivative of the sunk-cost fallacy, and then after some time, I guess I wanted to see how bad bad could get.
What's even worse though is when that media does something that gives you hope that you might start to love it again. This just sets you up for more disappointment which will enhance your negative reaction when the media returns to the slide (in your opinion). The question is where does that disappointment come from? If I completely think something is trash and has no value, why am I disappointed?
What I hope you are reading between the lines here is that hate reading or watching in some cases is not all hate. It can be an expression of love for a work. Granted a love of the work at an earlier time, but that's not necessarily a bad thing. It means that the work has impacted someone at some time in a positive way.
I know some fans hate to read constant negative messages about their beloved works, but that's a necessary consequence of living in a world where we share things with and among each other. I am not among you who believe that even my most favorite works are beyond criticism, even repeated by the same person for the same aspect, though criticism is not an excuse to be a jerk to be clear.
I think the purest form of love is love that acknowledges the truth of what that thing (or person) is — flaws and all, and loves that thing as it is knowing the truth of what something is. You love it not necessarily because of the flaws but loves the flaws too. I think that sets you up in a better position to accept that at times annoying (to you) ad nauseam repeated or constant criticism. I believe a blind to the truth fan is just as bad as a hater who has never even seen or read the work. Neither of them see the truth of the work, and that's annoying to me at least. (This is not to say that a fan must agree with any and all criticism)
Lastly, we are different people. Art is experienced in an individual way. Life's circumstances and experiences are unique for each person, and how art hits them must be taken in under their circumstances. Even a consensus of a large group of people or a commentary section is no proof that opinions are wrong. If you love or have had that love turn to hate, it doesn't matter how many people say the opposite. It doesn't suddenly make it any difference for you. Now, rightly, you may ask why debate and complain if it may not change anyone's opinion, but like art itself is a form of self-expression and an expression of individuality, so too is expressing love and criticism an expression of those things.
ZenBuu alludes to the "constructive" criticism can, "constructive" criticism is a form of gatekeeping criticism, and it is a form of silencing dissent by making the dissenter dissent in a way acceptable by those with whom they disagree. It should be seen as attempting to gain an unfair advantage in a discussion. What's "constructive" praise after all? And as far as I know, it is not a requirement for all comments to be "constructive".
Bird Mountain
August 7th 2024
thebritwriter was saying:
All that’s missing to maximise cringe factor is to throw in Public Service Announcements for kids which end with everyone showing one big happy grin.
SSJ2 Bra laughing manically while floating away from the destroyed planet with her brother bumps into Vegetto, and the surprise knocks her out of SSJ2.
Bra: Mr. Vegetto, what happened?
Vegetto: Bra, you lost control as a SSJ2.
Bra: Sorry, Mr. Vegetto, I was just seeing how high I could raise my power level. I did not think anything bad would happen.
Vegetto: Remember never go Super Saiyan 2 without proper supervision of a parent or guardian.
Bra: Thanks, now I know.
Vegetto: And knowing is half of the battle.
~Dragon Ball~ (sung to the tune of G.I. Joe of the 80s)
Wow, the PSA practically writes itself. Too bad the other half of the battle is the actually doing part, and Bra isn't too successful in that part of the battle.
P.S. Is it bad that I did not recognize the English translation of the DB opening song? No, it is the children who are wrong.
Bird Mountain
July 30th 2024
Cringe-Dama does indeed fit the bill re: comment last week.
The numbers this week are all over the place. She is the only one, and she says there are two weaknesses while holding up three of four fingers. So, there is a 1, 2, 3, 4 pattern that my brain is going to obsess over now.
Also, I am not sure where the 18+ stuff gets inserted but apparently it is much much larger than we can handle. Is that 18 times greater than or is that 18+ years of age or is that universe 18+? Oh my. I am not sure my body is ready for that level, but I suppose someone is going to enjoy themselves no matter the answer while being completely legal.
Chibi Son Bra did her best! page 163
The numbers this week are all over the place. She is the only one, and she says there are two weaknesses while holding up three of four fingers. So, there is a 1, 2, 3, 4 pattern that my brain is going to obsess over now.
Also, I am not sure where the 18+ stuff gets inserted but apparently it is much much larger than we can handle. Is that 18 times greater than or is that 18+ years of age or is that universe 18+? Oh my. I am not sure my body is ready for that level, but I suppose someone is going to enjoy themselves no matter the answer while being completely legal.
Bird Mountain
July 23rd 2024
le nuage was saying:
Bird Mountain was saying: It would be awesome if her next attack was something like cruel dama (genki dama, but cruel energy);
Well, have you noticed the spheres accumulating at the bottom of the page ?
Well, have you noticed the spheres accumulating at the bottom of the page ?
I tend to ignore balls, especially those hanging low. Kidding! I feel like I am getting ready to be amazed. I think you are even going to get Garfield to look forward to Mondays.
Bird Mountain
July 23rd 2024
Bra flexing like Sir Flexanor aka Escanor is great. It would be awesome if her next attack was something like cruel dama (genki dama, but cruel energy); I am just spitballing here so cut me some slack — unlike what Chibi-Bra is going to do to Kawaii-Bra.
Also, comment section, I enjoyed reading your comments. Very funny. I am firmly in the camp that Son Bra simps don't actually exist; they merely think they do. Those "simps" are just Bra's PR team trying to make her seem more loved and relevant than she actually is. Chibi-Bra on the other hand, I non-pedo and not-sexually simp her for in real life, and I am definitely not a Bra PR AI bot. At least that's what a not PR AI bot would say, right? 2 Replie(s)
Chibi Son Bra did her best! page 162
Also, comment section, I enjoyed reading your comments. Very funny. I am firmly in the camp that Son Bra simps don't actually exist; they merely think they do. Those "simps" are just Bra's PR team trying to make her seem more loved and relevant than she actually is. Chibi-Bra on the other hand, I non-pedo and not-sexually simp her for in real life, and I am definitely not a Bra PR AI bot. At least that's what a not PR AI bot would say, right? 2 Replie(s)
Bird Mountain
July 10th 2024
8x Makkanko-Dodonpa because she has 4 fingers on each hand? That's brilliant. She's pointing all her fingers at the enemy like Dodonpa!!! So funny. I love it!
Also, I did not know the furries produce too much milk. I never thought of that problem before. I suppose it would be a problem. Mental Mr. Blue Popo is a wise mentor, and hilarious.
Excellent page; it really made me laugh.
Chibi Son Bra did her best! page 160
Also, I did not know the furries produce too much milk. I never thought of that problem before. I suppose it would be a problem. Mental Mr. Blue Popo is a wise mentor, and hilarious.
Excellent page; it really made me laugh.
Bird Mountain
June 6th 2024
Good refs, but I can't believe that everyone is glassing over the fact that we just learned that Son Bra stuffs her bra. The questions you should be asking are two-fold:
1. How does Bra mean that she stuffs her bra? She could have been referring to herself in the third person. Bra stuffs bra, or bra stuffs Bra or bra stuffs bra or, most scandalous, Bra stuffs Bra. I mean in early Dragon Ball the dragon balls were small enough that they could be accurately described as beads... You're welcome, friends. You won't be able to get that thought out of your head now
2. How will Bra live down the shame that everyone will know that she is underdeveloped compared to the other female students of her age? Will she still be the asthetic queen? Or will she even be the leader with this sad admission going forward? Hopefully, her power and willingness to murder the occasional family member will keep her on top of the social hierarchy.
Chibi Son Bra did her best! page 155
1. How does Bra mean that she stuffs her bra? She could have been referring to herself in the third person. Bra stuffs bra, or bra stuffs Bra or bra stuffs bra or, most scandalous, Bra stuffs Bra. I mean in early Dragon Ball the dragon balls were small enough that they could be accurately described as beads... You're welcome, friends. You won't be able to get that thought out of your head now
2. How will Bra live down the shame that everyone will know that she is underdeveloped compared to the other female students of her age? Will she still be the asthetic queen? Or will she even be the leader with this sad admission going forward? Hopefully, her power and willingness to murder the occasional family member will keep her on top of the social hierarchy.
Bird Mountain
May 16th 2024
We all know that calling someone passive results in a massive personality change, and renders you suddenly docile and easily suggestible. I thought this was supposed to be a parody not reality.
Chibi Son Bra did her best! page 152
Bird Mountain
March 26th 2024
le nuage was saying:
Rodriog was saying: papupata was saying: She's come to kick bubble gum and chew ass
I thought the same missed opportunity
If you think that, it means you missed the ref :(
FishNChips was saying: I sooo want that free hat!
Let's free hat McCullough !
I thought the same missed opportunity
If you think that, it means you missed the ref :(
FishNChips was saying: I sooo want that free hat!
Let's free hat McCullough !
Hat McMullough acted in the self-defense. That many babies together can be like piranha.
Also, "Rowdy" Roddy Piper too. Man, I am beginning to think the author of this strip is older than I would have imaged.
That being said, I think Frosties has point.
Great comic. I don't comment every week, but I read every week. I look more forward to this comic than I do the main DBM one. 1 Replie(s)
Bird Mountain
June 5th 2023
"Far much faster," is this a ref?
I know Bra told them to hold hands, but Vegeta should have put up more resistance. Maybe they miss being inside each other, and that is why Vegeta went along with it with minimal resistance. Besides, it seems like Goku always gets what he wants out of Vegeta.
Also, why would you want to die faster without being stronger at least? Who knew Bra could kill them so easily.
Chibi Son Bra did her best! page 102
I know Bra told them to hold hands, but Vegeta should have put up more resistance. Maybe they miss being inside each other, and that is why Vegeta went along with it with minimal resistance. Besides, it seems like Goku always gets what he wants out of Vegeta.
Also, why would you want to die faster without being stronger at least? Who knew Bra could kill them so easily.
Bird Mountain
May 30th 2023
What are some other things that Bra will never say?
Hmmm. Oh!
"It's my fault."
"I promise to not murder again."
"I love my brothers."
"Vegetto is the best dad."
"Philpsil does not fill out those pants."
"You're right, Gohan, and I was wrong."
"I can understand why you don't like me."
Chibi Son Bra did her best! page 101
Hmmm. Oh!
"It's my fault."
"I promise to not murder again."
"I love my brothers."
"Vegetto is the best dad."
"Philpsil does not fill out those pants."
"You're right, Gohan, and I was wrong."
"I can understand why you don't like me."
Bird Mountain
May 2nd 2023
Wow! I am having flashbacks to my ex-gf. She didn't like advice either; she finally listened to her friend's advice though and broke up... I meant that I totally broke up with her. Maybe Bra will finally take some advice and be happier... I meant miserable. Yeah, that's what I meant. These tears are tears of joy; I mean Chibi-Bra makes me happy.
Chibi Son Bra did her best! page 98
Bird Mountain
April 24th 2023
Someone tell Bra that she is still green when it comes to fighting despite having been blue in color. Of course leg length matters; that's why you got taken to Linkin Park!! You're better than that Bra.
1 Replie(s)
Chibi Son Bra did her best! page 97
Bird Mountain
April 11th 2023
Vegeta's cells just refuse to be short again.
Chibi Son Bra did her best! page 95
Bird Mountain
April 3rd 2023
Oh my!!! I thought for a second there something other than her hair was going to grow larger. Boobs. I was talking about her boobs.
In other news, I was not expecting the Android 13 power up. What a clever twist. Too bad it won't be enough against worst dad in the universe because he doesn't want his daughter to go on an universe level murder spree... like she's some sort of troubled teen. Hmmmm... that's a weird similarity. I mean I could see Bra going to Orange Star High School with a couple of ki blasts ready.
Chibi Son Bra did her best! page 94
In other news, I was not expecting the Android 13 power up. What a clever twist. Too bad it won't be enough against worst dad in the universe because he doesn't want his daughter to go on an universe level murder spree... like she's some sort of troubled teen. Hmmmm... that's a weird similarity. I mean I could see Bra going to Orange Star High School with a couple of ki blasts ready.
Bird Mountain
March 12th 2023
MrPerson0 was saying:
Xeno was saying: Sorry to disappoint you (and many, I guess), but it's officialy confirmed (by Asura and co in yesterday's stream) they're nowhere near Bra SSJ2. They didn't literally spell out "they are exactly between A and B", but they were pretty blunt about them not being in Bra/Vegetto tiers.
Really hope Salagir goes back on this. I always found it silly to think Goku and Vegeta couldn't get much stronger in 20 years after the Buu Saga.
Really hope Salagir goes back on this. I always found it silly to think Goku and Vegeta couldn't get much stronger in 20 years after the Buu Saga.
I mean have you met Bra. The very universe that she exists in even acknowledges her superiority. Goku and Vegeta are still characters in a universe. SSJ2 Bra is not limited by such nonsense. Even the people she kills love her instantly. No amount of training can help you reach that level. Ironically, she proves Vegeta right from his first fight with Goku. There are levels of power that no amount of training or character development can reach.
Bird Mountain
March 12th 2023
Okay, that was pretty cool. Hopefully, we will get the Krillen vs Jackie Chun slow-motion replay. It seems like Goku wins the rock-paper-scissor battle this time. Vegeta should have chosen wisely-er.
DB Multiverse page 2167
Bird Mountain
February 28th 2023
Dang!!! If I was capable of feeling more than one feeling at a time, I might have felt something like sympathy for Bra. Good thing having a limited emotional bandwidth has saved me once again.
Meanwhile, Kakarot is thinking at least you met your dad and not fired off into space because your whole society judged you to be garbage from birth. Vegeta is thinking at least you weren't sent off to murder a bunch of innocent people... wait a minute. I guess Bra is still more Vegeta's kid even in this universe.
Chibi Son Bra did her best! page 89
Meanwhile, Kakarot is thinking at least you met your dad and not fired off into space because your whole society judged you to be garbage from birth. Vegeta is thinking at least you weren't sent off to murder a bunch of innocent people... wait a minute. I guess Bra is still more Vegeta's kid even in this universe.
Bird Mountain
February 23rd 2023
This is cool, except Buu failed to Psycho Mantis me and my location accurately. Take that Buu. Can I get a wish? Can can we get some consequences for Bra? Oh, that's beyond even your power? Rats!
Minicomic page 119
Bird Mountain
February 23rd 2023
So what are the odds of them doing image fighting at the edge of the ring before one of them concedes to defeat? Personally, I hope that happens. I will love it. It was so intense and suspenseful and the stakes can't be higher. Wow! Goku and Vegeta doing that will raise it to the next level.
DB Multiverse page 2159
Bird Mountain
February 7th 2023
Vegetto always answers destiny's call. Somebody tell Bulma that Vegetto has a new lady in his life, Destiny. Bulma, baby, there's three people in this marriage, me, you, and Destiny. She doesn't always return your phone call or show up when you want, but when she does, Vegetto is raring to go.
Do you think the amount of TP that Vegetto is using is proportional to the poop in his life? I don't think he is actually pooping with his pants on... so there has to another mess that he has to be cleaning up and oh man, it looks like it is a large mess.
Chibi Son Bra did her best! page 86
Do you think the amount of TP that Vegetto is using is proportional to the poop in his life? I don't think he is actually pooping with his pants on... so there has to another mess that he has to be cleaning up and oh man, it looks like it is a large mess.
Bird Mountain
January 9th 2023
PrinceOfTheHood was saying:
Can You or someone else Please explain what "Android 21" is saying there ? I think it's ... ... "spanish" ... ... ??
Can You or someone else Please explain what "Android 21" is saying there ? I think it's ... ... "spanish" ... ... ??
It's a Steins;Gate reference. Great Anime. Android 21 could be an Okabe in the DB universe for sure.
Bird Mountain
January 3rd 2023
The condom couldn't withstand SSJ3, but somehow I think it could withstand SSJ Blue......... balls.
Chibi Son Bra did her best! page 81
Bird Mountain
December 27th 2022
I love the balls in the first panel before you realize that they are femboys. This is Christopher Nolan Memento style of putting you in the mind of the characters. You think that you are seeing a hot female waitress' panties, but instead you are getting a look at the ball sack of a waitor.
Once Trunks started screaming, I realized that I was had too. I share your pain Trunks. It is too soon for me too.
Also, I didn't know a little bit of Trunk's angst was a latent attraction to Android 17. Oh my!!! Android 17's rejection here is what caused him to go on the genocide run.
Chibi Son Bra did her best! page 80
Once Trunks started screaming, I realized that I was had too. I share your pain Trunks. It is too soon for me too.
Also, I didn't know a little bit of Trunk's angst was a latent attraction to Android 17. Oh my!!! Android 17's rejection here is what caused him to go on the genocide run.
Bird Mountain
December 20th 2022
Well, it is official that Vegetto sperm is merged Kakarot and Vegeta sperm. I wasn't sure if one testicle produced mostly Vegeta DNA while the other produced mostly Gokou DNA, or if every other one was produced respective to the original.
Also, Look Who's Talking? How old are you? God, I have not even thought of those movies since early 1990 - something. Talk about your blast from the past. Well, I guess this whole page is about getting a load off, and remembering the past can help you do that.
We also learned that Bra is a never nudist. It is not her fault though (just like everything else), she was just born that way.
P.S. I just remembered that Kirstie Alley died recently. That's probably why that movie was on the brain...and possibly you have other things on the mind. We'll know what happened if in 9 months you have to take a break.
Chibi Son Bra did her best! page 79
Also, Look Who's Talking? How old are you? God, I have not even thought of those movies since early 1990 - something. Talk about your blast from the past. Well, I guess this whole page is about getting a load off, and remembering the past can help you do that.
We also learned that Bra is a never nudist. It is not her fault though (just like everything else), she was just born that way.
P.S. I just remembered that Kirstie Alley died recently. That's probably why that movie was on the brain...and possibly you have other things on the mind. We'll know what happened if in 9 months you have to take a break.
Language
Reminder. Buu-Arc. Son Goku watched Super Buu sneakily absorb Gotenks via Ro Kaioshin's crystal ball. Just when Buu was desperate and backed into a corner.
Nevertheless, Goku was completely taken aback or rather surprised when Buu does this to Gohan. Goku should have known that Buu is too dangerous to be arrogant and feel confident of victory with him.
Goku should have had a counter immediately for someone else getting absorbed…?
Well, when Buu tried to absorb Goku himself—via Vegetto—he did have a counter: Barrier. And based on the timeline (retcons notwithstanding), it couldn’t have been more than an hour between Gohan’s absorption and Vegetto’s encounter with Buu. That’s a pretty quick turnaround for developing or at least deploying a counter.
You could argue that it was the Vegeta side of Vegetto who came up with the move, sure—but Vegeta hadn’t seen the absorption technique before if memory serves. (I believe that Vegeta was surprised to see how much Buu had changed.) And if we’re playing the personality attribution game, Vegeta usually favors offense as defense, not protective techniques like Barrier. So it’s reasonable to credit the Goku half with that move.
At the very least, Vegetto’s counter makes the "Goku didn’t counter absorption" argument a wash. It neither strongly supports nor undermines the idea that Goku can adapt quickly. But personally, I think it does reflect positively on Goku. Vegetto's use of the Barrier shows that Goku was capable of recognizing a threat and countering it—just not always in a way that can save third-parties.