OK, either Ginyu carries the whole team XXI or Cell comes to save the day and achieve his goal of fighting Gohan.

I always feel like from Cooler's 5th form to King Cold's 6th Xenomorphs form is a huge design downgrade. But the panel art looks great though.

If Ginyu-Cold's appearance didn't remind him of first form Frieza on Namek, then Gohan has to lose his memory to think "Oh, this dude must be an Android!"

Goku, on the other hand, never saw first form Frieza in DBZ. If he did, the first word he said would be "Frieza?" LOL

…fine, Ginyu is definitely Salagir’s favorite character

Gohan is almost the least likely one to step into this obvious setup

Gohan saw Ginyu’s ability on Namek, knew Ginyu is in King Cold’s body, saw Frieza’s first form and is a smart scholar.

Anyone with a brain cell should at least doubt why this guy can move in a time freeze zone without a Namekian protection.

If it’s Goku, it can make sense, since we all know Goku is a mor0n. It shouldn’t be Gohan. 2 Replie(s)

Is this King Cold’s first form? Or Ginyu just switched with a random audience?

BTW, I don’t think Gohan would be tricked this easily, the trap is too obvious. Or Ginyu is switching with the Namekian? So he can turn off Gohan’s protection? 1 Replie(s)

Haven’t both Vegitto and Bra’s characters already been assassinated?

The person who came should be at least SSJ3 level to do the job without getting killed. If Ginyu don't get a stronger body (Vegitto) soon, he is cooked. 1 Replie(s)

I wish XXI doesn't just corrupt Vegitto like he did to Kaioshin, that would be boring. 2 Replie(s)

Which Universe's King Kai is this? Didn't notice him in the original manga

Ginyu can take Vegitto's body in a second.

To maximize Team XXI's advantage, Ginyu can switch body with Jeice (most likely the weakest) first then change body with Vegitto. So Jeice in Kind Cold's body and Ginyu in Vegitto's body.

Then destroy Vegitto in Jeice's body, so everything is secured.

Let's see how the main casts fight against a XXI buffed Ginyu Vegitto. 1 Replie(s)

Oh, that's where Videl watch the U13 Saiyans 1 Replie(s)

What's the third signpost meaning? Universe IV? Isn't Buu gone by now? 2 Replie(s)

I agree that gag characters should stick to comedy rather than actually changing the story, but there's a valid reason why people hate Son Bra.

It's not about her being controlled by Babidi, or even the fact that she brutally killed Gohan.

The real issue is how she broke free from the Majin control just from U18 Bra's speech, and then gave up against Gast without even putting up a fight—which is very uncharacteristic for a Saiyan.

Plus, her saying she wasn't sure if she could defeat Janemba created some major power scaling inconsistencies for a lot of readers.

People don't hate evil characters, tragedies, or heroes turning bad.

What they hate is out-of-character behavior forced by plot convenience.

Right, if ultimate Ginyu Vegitto destroyed everyone and XXI made the wish, our savior Mary Sure will just reverse the time

Can’t the dark Senzu bean which XXI gave Vegitto satisfy him?

Oh no, not DBM Beerus!

Hyped up as a super supreme god just to get off-screened on the very next page without doing a single thing. Peak writing right here. 💀

Well, this Janemba is quite weak, XXI mush give it a huge boost or something so it can make SSJ2 Bra think she might not be able to defeat it. 1 Replie(s)

Well, in this timeline the only change from canon that would plausibly trigger Vegeta’s rage is Gohan’s death. Frieza’s insults are routine, and Vegeta witnessed both Goku’s and Trunks’ Super Saiyan transformations yet still needed years of training to reach it himself—so the real catalyst has to be Gohan which is the only applicable variable.

Anyway, how would Earthly kill Macha Frieza? Taiyoken + Kienzan？ 1 Replie(s)

If the god and demon use Potara earrings to fuse, they might actually receive a higher multiplier than Vegito.

While Goku and Vegeta’s fusion benefits from their unique rivalry, this pairing could potentially result in an even greater boost.

I still remember this epic arc—that rare limit-breaking scene followed immediately by getting tossed by his controlled counterpart. It’s epic, but also peak irony for a Dragon Ball story.

I want to agree with you two if Bra didn't say she was not sure if she could defeat Janemba in Page 2448. Janemba's movie counterpart is only a bit stronger than SSJ3 Goku. And this Janemba is on SSJ2 Bra level. There is a huge gap.

BTW, don't you want to see normal SSJ Gogeta vs a Ultimate Vegitto (Ginyu version)? The Gogeta vs Vegitto was what brought us here a decade ago, wasn't it? 1 Replie(s)

If Vegeta didn't waste a year travelling, he might actually kill android 16-20 all easily and end the whole Cell saga there.

Could XXI possess something similar to Elder Kai's 'potential unlock' ability?

It might explain why the Janemba facing Gast seems stronger than Janemba's movie counterpart, perhaps XXI unlocked Janemba's potential?

If that’s the case, we could even see an Ultimate Ginyu Vegito in the next main chapter. 2 Replie(s)

If Vegeta didn't waste a year traveling, he might truly be able to achieve both.

Imagine grade 2 super vegeta at the beginning of Android Saga 1 Replie(s)

Considering all the time he’s had, it’s surprising XXI never bothered to ask & learn how to create his own dragon.

It would be much less inconvenient if he had one linked solely to him.

Anyway, can't wait to see what XXI's weakness is and watch the final fight between U18 Gogeta and U8&16 Ginyu-Vegitto. Ginyu is 100% taking that body! XXI might remove the SSJ3 drawback from Ginyu-Vegitto or just give Ginyu-Vegitto ultimate form.

How does Pan manage to hurt SSJ2 Vegeta a bit here? the power gap should be enormous 2 Replie(s)

I don't think the movie Cooler care about whatever King Cold was thinking or the Frieza's territory.

The Vegeta Tale is connected to DBS, so Cooler should worry more about how Beerus would think.

The story should end soon.

But I would like a Cooler tale or resurrection of Cooler in the future

It was quite clear actually since sayazur didn’t respond to any comments last page, most people should have aware of this after I pointed it out. 1 Replie(s)

That’s why I said in the end, Sayazur is playing both Cooler and us.

Vegeta is acting so Cooler believes he can win instead of teleporting away.

This is Namek Saga Vegeta, who plays smart. 1 Replie(s)

We saw that Super Saiyan actually drained Gohan when he first transformed in the Hyperbolic Time Chamber.

It makes sense that poor ki control would lead to rapid fatigue if you aren't used to the form yet.

Goku's ability to maintain it so well on Namek was likely due to his superior mastery over ki control.

Still, it's pretty weird for Vegeta to burn out this quickly considering he just ate a Senzu bean.

Or maybe Vegeta’s just acting to keep Cooler from escaping with Instant Transmission? Could this have been your plan all along, @sayazur? I start to feel like it. 1 Replie(s)

So Vegeta has another senzu? LOL

I mean... Goku lasted longer on Namek, Vegeta is shorter than Goku in every aspect?

So Namekians had another set of Dragon Balls before Porunga?

Also, if the creator of the Dragon Balls is gone, shouldn't they have turned back into stone?

What happened to the established rules? This is starting to feel a lot like GT. 5 Replie(s)

Dirty Fireworks

Slug has to know Vegeta has the upper hand here.

If he kills Cooler first, Vegeta will definitely kill him, right?

Cooler should honestly just escape while he can.

Both Goku Black and Cell explicitly credited their massive power increases after healing and near-death experiences directly to their Saiyan cells.

Regarding the first Cooler movie, Goku experienced a massive jump in power. Goku went from getting one-shot by Cooler's eye beam and struggling against the Armored Squadron, to being completely unfazed by Salza's attacks and actually holding his own even taking advantage against base Cooler in his base. That was a clear Zenkai boost.

Furthermore, the Zenkai boost has never been a stable or constant multiplier. If it always guaranteed a huge jump in power, the Saiyans would have overthrown Frieza long before Planet Vegeta was destroyed. A small increase, like 10%, is still a Zenkai, but it simply isn't noticeable or useful when the power gap between you and your opponent is enormous.

Finally, we still don't know the exact mechanics behind the boost. It is highly possible that it only triggers effectively when the fighter's body can sense and recognize the opponent's power level. Since the Androids do not possess sensible ki, that could easily explain why Future Gohan and Trunks didn't get those massive boosts against them. Especially Gohan's losing arm balanced the increase while Trunks was far to weak to make the zenkai even a factor.

It actually works in Super for Goku black, which is canon for "Vegeta Tales."

Even in Z, we saw it work for Cell, and it worked for Goku in the first Cooler movie.

The main reason we didn't see many near-death Zenkai boosts after Namek is simply because the fighters were usually just knocked out or exhausted, rather than truly near death.

Besides, we never got a clear explanation of how the Zenkai boost multiplier is even calculated. 1 Replie(s)

It took SSJ2 Vegeta 2 hit to finish an Android 16 level King Cold? The first punch should be able to crush Cold's head.

SSJ2 Kid Gohan can one shot Cell Jr. pretty easily. 3 Replie(s)

Oh, no!!! The Yamacha in Bojack Gang! 1 Replie(s)

Evenly matched fights rarely start with beam attacks, unless it's GT.

Come on, Slug! Bring up the Dragon Balls so Cooler actually has a reason to visit Earth (like that's ever gonna happen).

Wait until Vegeta and Cooler obliterate his entire army, along with Slug himself!

Combat rule #1: Do not share information with your enemy

Actually, Cooler can just teleport away without telling Vegeta anything.

The villains always died because they talked too much.

And there are some better ways to achieve it.

Like what I said, being dropped into a pool of Turles’a spirit fruit to save Vegeta is better than this. The Turles storyline shouldn’t have been wasted.

Even you set a goal of “main characters have to win”, there’s a logical path and there’s a illogical path.

Cooler's hit in the last page should already kill Vegeta. Considering Vegeta was in a severely weakened stage while DE-transformed and a hole in his chest.

Goku and Raditz with the same injure cannot even move a finger and dead quickly. And if someone at their peak level hit them again? Immediate death.

But... the story needs Vegeta to be alive. We call it a correction of timeline by author, lol.

The story might make more sense by Vegeta was dropped into a secret pool of Fruit of the Tree of Might hidden by Turles. So the liquid of the fruit heal and boost Vegeta even further.

How does Vegeta survive this in base while severely injured?

Let’s say even Vegeta do have a senzu in his glove, how hard should a senzu bean be to not get crushed in a fight like this? 2 Replie(s)

Like the Barbarians gonna listen 1 Replie(s)

So Vegeta has a senzu bean in his glove? Or Cooler is stupid enough to put him into a healing tank?

I always feel the "hiding senzu beans in glove" as a impossible strategy, under their level of fighting, the beans would be reduced to dust with any light vibration.

Although the SSJ transformation did give Vegeta a lot of confidence at the beginning of Android Saga, He didn't believe SSJ is invincible.

He played strategies against Android 19 & 20, use words to terrify Dr.Gero away so he can take a senzu bean.

You really mixed Cooler with Frieza, Cooler literally just teleported away from Vegeta's attack.

In this story, Cooler knows that King Cold was hiding more power than him, he knows the existence of Gods (Probably Beerus) and he also knows Frieza had more potential than him.

Sure, Cooler is still self-centred emperor, but he doesn't have that "you must die on my hands" or "I could never lose to a monkey" kind of mentality since both his father and brother just died against one.

Like Goku IT away with Tien and Piccolo against semi-perfect Cell so he can fight Cell after the training in the time chamber? Or he IT away with Vegeta against Broly in DBS Broly movie? 1 Replie(s)

Vegeta’s definitely got this considering his ego at the beginning of the Android Saga.

It makes me wonder, though—if Cooler knows he’s outclassed, why doesn't he just teleport to another planet and live&train to fight another day? 2 Replie(s)

Because the myth of Super Saiyan is "the most powerful entity in the universe," nobody knows how strong a Super Saiyan would actually be.

The initial expectation for Frieza's training was to increase his first form's power beyond 1 million, so Frieza himself doesn't know the true extent of his potential.

Your analysis is pure hindsight bias: using the reader's perspective from later chapters (over 30 years later) to criticize a character's decision from several arcs earlier. 2 Replie(s)

How did Polar die? Mentioned in Novel? 2 Replie(s)

You are both wrong, check the colored manga, Goku always has his kaioken aura against Frieza when he attack or dodge. He just turn it off in between. https://i.imgur.com/uZog787.png https://i.imgur.com/4b6MN7c.png

And Goku's kaioken X2 has its aura while show his 180,000 power level to Ginyu.

And yes, Cooler Movie Goku's base power after the zenkai has surpass 100% Frieza. 1 Replie(s)

And Mask on!

BTW, I wouldn't use the power scaling from the Cooler movie to estimate the multiplier of this transformation.

Because the multiplier in the movie was certainly >> 20 times since Goku's 20x Kaioken Kamehameha made absolutely no effects on Cooler, and their base power was close in that movie.

We cannot let Vegeta die in the Vegeta Tale, can we? 3 Replie(s)

Nah, Ginyu is gonna take U16 Vegetto's body, and Ginyu is a much better actor than U13 Vegetto who would be a maniac. Remember Raditto? Lol

Are we finally gonna witness U18 Gogeta vs U16 Ginyu Vegetto?

Gogeta only need a Cell Jr. as supporter to counter the time freeze. But He do need to try his best to avoid the Cell Jr. get killed. U18 Vegeta's failure here could be a good lesson though.

And for the real U16 Vegetto, I guess he will be killed by Frieza and Cooler in King Cold's injured body.

And why don't they just blow Vegitto into pieces now? That's one of their biggest threat. 1 Replie(s)

Actually, in the Q&A session of the very next page 70, it stated:
“Would the organizers have healed Uub (as they are supposed to, but that's a big wound)?
Hu... good question. They don't have senzu, but the Vargas may have good surgeons. I'd say the Vargas would have sewed the arm back (over a long time in ER) then an organizer Namekian would have healed him.”

So for Namekian to heal a broken arm, you need surgeons to stitch your arm back first then the healing can work.

I don’t think anyone here can stitch Vegeta’s broken arm back, especially the arm kind broken into pieces in page 2638 1 Replie(s)

So the Namekian can heal broken arm? Then why Uub ask for other’s help at the beginning of the tournament?
I thought only senzu or Buu or Gast can regenerate your broken body pieces. 1 Replie(s)

Considering the power gap, shouldn't Nappa be vaporized immediately? Like a fly hit by lightning?

The technique Piccolo used against imperfect Cell. Don’t know its English name. Light Grenade? 1 Replie(s)

Cooler is eager to learn, with his age, he probably has learnt the IT for over a century.

This is reasonable.

U13 Vegeta is really dumb to think this’s gonna work.

Actually, Bra can fire a beam against U13 Vegeta’s beam to completely evaporate him after IT.

U13 Vegeta was even with a Majin Cell Jr. who was at most equal to Majin Vegeta.
So this Vegeta is Buu saga SSJ3 Goku at maximum. DBM’s power scaling is always weird, so we can only assume.

Shouldn't SSJ2 Bra be at least 20x stronger than U13 Vegeta?

Given that her SSJ1 was already rivaling Ultimate Gohan before Majin boost, SSJ2 puts her in a completely different league.

Plus, Vegeta’s SSJ3 stamina is clearly hitting its limit.

With Instant Transmission, she could honestly just teleport and one-shot him before he even reacts. 1 Replie(s)

U13 Vegeta really out here burning all his energy in SSJ3 just to have a chat. Did he learn nothing from the Raichi fight?

If he had two brain cells to rub together, he’d have KO’d Pan and the Namekian and delivered them to XXI the second U18 Vegeta fell.

You two both knew what was referred, but you chose to dodge the main issue.
No point to argue anymore. You are the admins anyway



U13 Vegeta just hit Buu Saga SSJ Goku level yesterday. And 18 Vegeta from 20 years ago has the same base power as current U13 vegeta.

If you cannot see U18 Vegeta’s progress is ahead of U13 vegeta for over 20 years. I have no more words 2 Replie(s)

Maybe the attacking ki can draw someone like the Uub couple here? Or Gast/Vegetto/Cell

This story can twist since Cooler isn’t finished yet. And it kinda makes sense except for Cooler didn’t kill Vegeta when he had the chance and thrown Vegeta on to his capital street. It’s not perfect but acceptable.

U18 Vegeta would need someone like Uub tos save him, and it doesn’t have to be like this if:
1. DBM didn’t set normal saiyan’s limit extremely low.
2. Either Vegeta choose to take the attacks head on.
3. Why TH took Pan with him?

“If you are not a great cooking Chef, how could you say other Chef cook bad?”
“If you are not a great basketball player, how could you say some NBA members are bad?”

Am I twisting your logic here?😉 2 Replie(s)

As Korin said in OG Dragon Ball, you potential grows with your training and body grows. Old Kai can only unlock Gohan's maximum potential at that exact moment. After the potential unlock, as long as Gohan keeps training, his potential along with his power will keep growing.
The Ultra Divine Water was supposed to unlock all your potential, but Goku never stops growing.





"There are people like the story, how could you say the story is bad" LOL

Logically speaking, we can vote on these topics and see how many people like or dislike certain DBM settings, such as capping normal Saiyans at Ultimate Gohan's level or preventing normal Saiyans' base forms from surpassing Frieza, or this fight—which logically makes no sense for either Vegeta to take attacks head-on.

I would agree with "do not jump to a conclusion" if this were an illusion in U13 Vegeta's head, but it's obviously not.

Like I said, I don't even care if Akira Toriyama himself jumped in to save the day—the damage has been done. 1 Replie(s)

Training hard for over 20 years since the Buu saga, and still defeated by a Buu saga SSJ3 Goku-level version of himself.

Since Goku's base power equaled Vegeta's in the Buu saga, and U18 Vegeta should be able to fight with his legs, if U18 Vegeta is twice as strong as U13 Vegeta, he should be able to win with just two legs. So Vegeta couldn't even double his base power with over 20 years of training.

The most hated aspect of DBM is that they cap normal Saiyans' maximum potential extremely low.

I don't even care who jumps in to save the day now. U13 Vegeta should be able to dodge Pan's Kienzan/Destructo Disc. U18 Vegeta should be able to deliver a kill move to his counterpart while U13 Vegeta is blocking Pan's attack and trying to fight back.

It's just bad writing. 5 Replie(s)

Kinda disappointing.

Maybe the creator believe if Cooler transform or meet Big Gete Star, this story would lean to Cooler Tale instead of Vegeta Tale?

Anyway, SSJ Vegeta's first fight should be more epic, like Goku vs Frieza on Namek, Frieza showed his 100% to even the field a bit, so the fight can have an epic ending.

This is just too direct, no twists and too simple. 1 Replie(s)

Wait, this tiny trick can work on someone who are stronger than him?

I knew U18 Vegeta would intercept but I didn't expect the small trick can break his hand like this.

It's still absurd that an entry level SSJ1 can interrupt the SSJ3 level fight.

Can't they just "dodge"? Why take every attack hands on? A SSJ3 has to take an entry level SSJ1's attack is beyond imaginable. 1 Replie(s)

It's fine to say Kienzan can cut someone who are over 100 times stronger than you.

But, the attack shouldn't land in the first place. U13 Vegeta should be able to dodge the Kienzan pretty easily. Under this power gap, Pan's move should look like slow motion in U13 Vegeta's vision.

U13 Vegeta should be at least 100 times stronger than Pan. Why even bother blocking her attack? 1 Replie(s)

If U18 Vegeta cannot finish U13 Vegeta soon, he will have to move as closer to their crowd as possible then teleport.

Time is not on his side.

So Cooler doesn't have his Cooler transformation in this story?

As I was saying, Vegeta should stay in his "normal SSJ" state all the time. Since they already stated it to be their new base. 1 Replie(s)

So can Cooler transform to his 5th form or not?

U13 Vegeta: Why do you need people to love you when you know the person who loves you the most is always yourself?

Seriously, for people living on their ego, the least they care about is how others think of them. 1 Replie(s)

Seriously, why took Pan here? The Namekian is necessary but Pan?

And They were taking about use the "normal SSJ" as new base. But both Goku & Vegeta rarely use it.

Imaging if the U13 Vegeta is hitting them with SSJ3, both Pan and the Namekian would be dead now. And U18 Vegeta is doomed.

I can't understand the stupidity of this tiny team, you can't always count on the author to bail you out. 2 Replie(s)

Why don't Vegeta just stay in his "Normal SSJ" form?

Haven't they said it's their new base now?

Anyway, a SSJ Vegeta rematch with #18 is still fun.

Cooler, it's time to TO GO EVEN FURTHER BEYOND

We knew how DBM set it to be. It just against DB manga's original setting.

In the bonus chapter Trunks the Story, one arm future Gohan literally trained with SSJ teen Trunks in base and had the advantage.

And that one arm Gohan should be much weaker than the SSJ Vegeta who lost to #18.

Considering how far Goku and Vegeta have grown from the beginning of Android Saga. It's just impossible to say their base are still weaker than Namek Frieza.

The problem is whether the Namekian could keep up with the above SSJ1 level fight.

Or U18 Vegeta will have to fight without moving.

It should be safe against Android 18, but against U13 SSJ3 Vegeta would be a lot harder considering the limitation of movement and U18 Vegeta has to protect both Pan & the Namekian as the same time.

Can we talk about your profile image of SSJ3 Gogeta actually looks like SSJ3 Raditz? Considering the super long hair far exceed SSJ3 Gokus'. 1 Replie(s)

He was trying to prove he is the strongest in the universe. No killing intent immediately.

Unlike here against Vegeta, Cooler stated he throw vegeta on the street to kill him, which made no sense.

In movie, Cooler decided to not blow up earth directly to kill Goku because of his pride. Cooler wants to kill Goku with his own hands.

Metal Cooler keeps Vegeta & Goku alive because he wants their energy.

Killing Vegeta right away would be his character considering he immediately deliver a finishing blow after Goku survived his eye beam and fight back.

Cooler never hesitant to deliver the finishing blow with his own hands. 1 Replie(s)

The story could be better if it doesn't OOC Cooler.

The move of choking Vegeta's neck and throwing him onto his capitol street is a extremely out-of-character move.

It could be fixed by Cooler mocking Vegeta to be weaker than Goku during their beam struggle which triggered the further evolution to SSJ.

Imaging Vegeta's pupil came back after hearing Cooler mentioning Goku during beam struggle then his hair turn golden, it would be epic.

Anyway, nice fanfiction so far.

People appreciate the story while having their own opinion or suggestion can coexist. 1 Replie(s)

I still don't understand why Vegeta brings Pan here.

It's a weakness when strong enemy arrives. Most likely U13 Vegeta who isn't that strong, but what if it's someone stronger, like U13 Vegitto? 2 Replie(s)

That’s a good one. With the right incentives—and the threat of consequences—people can be pressured into compliance, including scientists, engineers, and bureaucrats.

And historically, indoctrination, brainwashing and propaganda have repeatedly proven effective.

Why does Vegeta take Pan with him? 1 Replie(s)

? Why would he throw Vegeta onto his capital street?

What's the point of not killing him directly?

Let's be honest: everyone wants their body to stay at the peak of their youth. And Bulma complained about the Saiyans' aging process in DBZ multiple times.

Emmmm, U13 Vegeta's taste on women is a real disgrace for the prince of 3 Saiyans 2 Replie(s)

Ok, forget about math. I get Sayazur’s point. We all heard it, and I agree: “Android doesn’t make sense”, “Golden Frieza doesn’t make sense”, “what is Beast Gohan or SSJ rage Trunks”. People’s power levels depend on author. But the author can rise people’s power level for the story telling purposes doesn’t mean power levels are irrelevant. The manga abandoned scooter because it inconvenient in story telling and cannot detect people’s true hidden power. But it can still be used for fun.

And comparing Cooler with Frieza is even easier. The Goku who almost got one shot by Cooler is already at Frieza’s level. And Goku received another Zenkai during that movie.

To break it down. In Cooler’s first movie. He stated Goku could be the one who defeated Frieza simply because Goku survived one single shot of his eye beam and can fight back. Which means Goku’s base is close to Frieza’s level in the beginning of Movie 5. And Frieza could be one shot to near death by Cooler as well so Cooler could make the judgement.

And during Movie 5,Goku received a noticeable Zenkai, which can be proved by Salza’s exploded scooter which functioning well when Salza fights Goku at the beginning.

And for people who don’t read manga, and believe Saiyan’s base power couldn’t reach Frieza’s level in the Android saga.
ONE ARM future Gohan train with SSJ Trunks in his base. ( yes, Future Trunks achieved SSJ before future Gohan’s death in manga unlike the anime version). And that same future Gohan is most likely weaker than SSJ Vegeta at the beginning of Android saga.

So a reasonable enough estimation based on manga and movie 5.
100% Frieza ≤ teenager SSJ Trunks ≤ 4th form Cooler = Mecan Frieza = Namek SSJ Goku < Base Goku/Vegeta at the beginning of Android saga/base future Gohan with both of his arm(in theory)/Base Goku who received a Zenkai during movie 5 (movie is parallel universe)

And I know people will say Goku cannot transform at his will during movie 5 prove Goku is weaker than Canon. But Don’t forget, SSJ’s multiplier is still, how strong after you transform is totally dependent on your base power. Can or cannot transform at will doesn’t affect your peak power. And the movie editor didn’t know SSJ can be transformed without rage at the time. Just like he didn’t know instant transmission until movie 6, where he gave both Goku and Metal Cooler instant transmission immediately.