1. Why is this Gotenks, fused of U16 Goten/U18 Trunks, calling Vegito "father?" Are they that interchangeable? Why is the first time Gotenks has ever been serious ever... to defend Bra? Half of him doesn't know Bra! The other version of him was killed by Bra!

2. "Brainwashed by surprise?" Hmm... if only the story showed us that. Instead of just informing us of the circumstances of Bra's offscreen Majinization and using them as an excuse to completely victimize and forgive her.

3. People originally said Bra wasn't a Creator's Pet because she couldn't resist immediately like Vegeta did, showing her as worse... and now the story's praising Bra for not resisting immediately like Vegeta did, showing her as better. So Bra, who did far worse things as a Majin than Vegeta ever did (Vegeta didn't chop Bulma in half and ask for more), is now morally superior than the man who never killed his family as a Majin (and in fact, hugged them.) And then died to atone. Knowing he'd go to hell.

4. As the cherry on top, we get to see the complete assassination of Vegito's character.

Vegito, who when Bra nearly killed him in space, didn't say a word about it but instead praised her for saving his life. Vegito, who specifically went out of his way to stop Bra from torturing Zangya. Vegito, who specifically took Bra out as a space cop when she was younger to teach her to protect innocents (and specifically made sure she wasn't killing people.) Vegito, who taught Bra special techniques even after she killed billions. Who kept Bra "from lashing out for years." Who Bra damaged in the HTC, yet he didn't even scratch in return. Who Gohan and Piccolo relied upon to stop Bra when she got out of hand. (Note how this page retcons that into a bad thing?) Who never shot back when Bra insulted him. Whom Bra, when Vegito rescued her from Ginyu, was surprised that he hurt her, showing such behavior was unusual. Who Salagir labeled as a "perfect master" of his emotions. Who went out of his way to protect the Vargas at the tournament despite not being asked to. Who was always worried about his potential offspring being a threat to the universe. Vegito, who is faced with the tough choice of picking either the universe's safety or his daughter, and picked the universe...

...is in the wrong. Completely. And Bra is absolutely guiltless. And apparently no one in U16--not Bulma (whom the story's never cared about enough to give even a single scene with her daughter), or Gohan, or anyone--is in any way at fault. Just Vegito. How is that "morally grey?"
Spoiler, click to show(Note: The U1 Kais killed potential threats as babies to keep the universe safe, purely on the chance they would be a problem, and yet the Kais are still un-Majinizable and therefore pure good. Vegito tries to kill someone with two confirmed killing sprees and he's out-of-line?)This is the culmination of a months-long retcon, all for Bra's sake. It was clear back in June, and it's only gotten more blatant since. Complete with sympathetic angles, shading, and yes, even googly eyes, now combined with manipulating our instinctive response to seeing a young girl get hit by an adult male. (If Bra were a guy, this scenario would be very different.) We've seen a character with exactly one positive quality--that she shed a tear for Pan once--kill families and friends while laughing and boasting, and had the ability to break free but only did so when her strength was challenged... just receive a full-on pardon with no lasting consequences while her dad gets retconned into an abusive father and thrown under the bus.

...What?

Vagabond was saying:
It doesn't, indeed.
Here Vegeth should have outright killed her, for what she did and because she is a clear menace to the existence of, like, everyone.
But that's not the point of this page.
He is not shown angered for that, now. He is shown angered from her resistance and disrespect. Like an abusive dad would. Oh, poor Bra, you look really more sympathetic now.

So:
— Bra is a terrible person from youth.
— her worst actions come in SS2, which she can’t control.
— because she is a terrible person, Babidi can control her.
— Bra now has complete sane control over SS2 because of Babidi.
In effect: because Bra was a bad person, she has been rewarded with a free solution to her one major flaw. If she’d HAD the goodness or self-control to resist Babidi initially, she wouldn’t be able to sanely fight back against Vegito now.

Remember, kids: being an a-hole will solve your problems eventually! -_-

And now EVEN MORE screentime for Bra as we resolve this, as Goku and Uub patiently await their first action in five years. Whatever nuance Vegito had as a character is getting rapidly lost so he can play heel to Bra. It’s not Buu which makes him snap, or XXI, but Bra. She is the single most important character of this comic.

If ANYONE intervenes on Bra’s behalf, I’m calling baloney. Because that means Bra—a person who has been utterly antisocial and insulting to all outsiders even BEFORE she potentially killed members of their universe—has spontaneously generated enough sympathy from characters we DO respect to get them to interfere, for the first time, in the business of a universe which hadn’t directly messed with them first. Against Vegito.

The best writing outcome here is to let U16 figure this out, for better or for worse.

So the new DBM canon Vegeth behaves and speaks like an abusive dad, easily angered.
Cool.
One wonders why he wasn't like that when Bra called him moron (or something alike) when he returned from XXI exile.
One wonders why he didn't beat the shit out of her for calling him a loser (altogether with Gotenks) when the fake Broly appeared.
One wonders why he didn't react like that when she hit him in space (sure, she helped him, but he is an abusive father easily angered, remember?)
One wonders why he didn't react like that when she disobeyed him about Zangya, welcoming her with a nice "How you dared to fail me, you little shit?" and beating her, and instead complimented her.
One wonders why he kept smiling when Bra didn't thank him for saving her from Ginyu, instead of beating the shit out of the ungrateful brat.

Probably there are more things one might wonder about (like, where the hell this trait should come for, according to the author).

But the answer is again the same for all the questions: because he wants us to pity poor Bra.

So now Vegeth is like an everyday abusive dad. Maybe he get drunk too. Or sexually molested her. Who knows what could happen next, if needed to make Bra look sympathetic.

For sure wasting a canon character to create a freudian excuse for a creator's pet is not beneath us, here ad DBM.

Ashanark was saying: Page 1247. She's in her base state (so we can't blame SS2 making her nuts), she's not a Majin (so we can't blame that), and she's not a child (so we can't blame her age, or say she doesn't comprehend what's happened.) Yet here she is, grinning as another sentient being bleeds out in front of her, enjoying Cold's pain. Yeah he's a villain but that's still messed up. Is it evil? Certainly not good, at least. You'd think she'd either walk away or else give him a mercy kill.

I get your point, and many people have pointed that out, but similarly back in DBZ in the Buu Saga, Mystic Gohan also sadistically tortures Super Buu and smirks as he enjoys humiliating him and seeing him in pain, and we know Gohan to be a good hearted person. You could blame it on the power-up, but I'd say it's no different from the power trip Bra's going through for defeating and humiliating somebody like Ginyu (obviously when I say "power trip" I'm not referring to the bat-shit insane trips she goes through when in SS2, just a boost in confidence)

To be honest I don't think the implication was that she's a sadist, it was probably just to show off her annoyingly smug nature.

joshuaissac was saying: She was already evil by that point. She was destroying a solar system before Vegito made his threat. So even before Vegito supposedly created the darkness in her, she was already at least as evil as Frieza (who only destroyed individual planets, not entire solar systems) and Kid Buu (who, as a kid, has all the same excuses as Bra).

Frieza has destroyed an endless amount of planets though, as well as probably enslaved at least multiple galaxies, all while being perfectly conscious and in all of his senses. Don't think that's entirely comparable.

Gohan doesn't stop this because Vegetto is the absolute master in u16, and by then he didn't had his turn. It'd be chaotic if u16 got disqualified.
Vegetto's presence and the absence of Goku had a major influence on everyone.
U16 has a darker atmosphere, they didn't work as a team when zen buu attacked everyone. Pan u18 knew when to give up, this one fought to the dead as if it was a disgrace to forfeit.
And the major difference is Bra. U18 Bra is a spoiled teen by Bulma, but u16 was raised by Vegetto and I'm sure Bulma wasn't allowed to do much.
I think u16 Bra would be problematic even without her super powers.

I'd like to think it's Pan raising a good question about the U16 Gohan, rather than her own dad. I mean, if he really cared about his daughter, wouldn't he step in, Vegito be damned? It makes you think about just how different the U16 Gohan is from the U18 one. They aren't as similar as we think.

And yes, Gohan did encourage her to fight Kakarot and let Vegeta egg her on, but that was only after he insured that the Saiyans wouldn't kill her; he also knew Pan wouldn't be happy with herself if she forfeited before fighting. As he says, Pan is more like his father than him. U16 Gohan on the other hand, while he did warn Pan, didn't seem to think that U16 Pan would lose to Bojack... despite knowing very well that Full Power SSJs don't stand a chance against him. Sure, he told her he wasn't a nice person and said she needed to be careful, but even he couldn't beat Bojack as Full Power SSJ. You think he would be more against it. Arrogance? Fear of Vegito? Who knows. But it does get you to think.

Korin was saying: JoneDon was saying:
I’m pretty sure that they already know that she’s a potential threat. It’s been hinted at throughout the tournament that Vegito’s family knows the danger she poses especially Gohan.
My probkem with everyone knowing us that their actions don't make sense:
1. Gohan is shocked Bra was controlled by Bibidi and 'Bra is better than that'.
2. Gohan allows Pan to go with Bra to train.
3. No one shows concerns for Bra/Vegito's behaviors, they act like Bra's aptitude is more of a joke than anything.
4. Goten and Trunks, whose fusion could stop a berserker Bra, act like lazy buffons instead of taking such fact seriously.

I mean didn’t Bra let herself be controlled? She basically wanted to get rid of her human side right? So I think that what Gohan means by her being better than that is that she’s able to resist Babidi but chooses not to. It’s like how Goku and co were shocked that Vegeta had been majinized. Pretty sure that Goku said a similar phrase to Vegeta just as Gohan said to Bra( feel free to correct me if I’m wrong though). As for the Pan thing, Pan is the one person who Bra seems to like the most, not to mention the fact that Vegetto is also there to supervise. As for Goten and Trunks, honestly that’s just how they’re portrayed in DBM, they take everything as a joke. They’re also not able to stop a beserker Bra. Only U18 Gotenks who received a power boost thanks to Buu would be able to stop beserker Bra.

I’m pretty sure that they already know that she’s a potential threat. It’s been hinted at throughout the tournament that Vegito’s family knows the danger she poses especially Gohan.

What she says in this pic is not her alluding to daddy dramas but the mental anguish of a good hearted girl constantly fighting the urges of her Double Saiyan bloodline and the tragedies it has bestowed upon others due to her inability to control her insane power.
>

Ashanark was saying: At age 10, Bra has a higher killcount than both DBZ Cell and Vegeta combined. Impressive. It's also funny how even mass-murderers like Vegeta, Frieza, Cell, and all Buus besides Kid, were more reluctant to blow up planets than Bra.

The various retcons of Bra's behavior and backstory are interesting to watch. Bra has always been intended to be sympathetic. There's nothing to indicate in the first few years of DBM that Bra was a budding villain: a lowkey first appearance, merely a meaner good guy with control issues. Chapters 136-137 of the novelization even describe Bra as having a "kind heart" like Goku, being a "hero", a "savior", and "beautiful". But as time's gone by and fan hate has increased, attempts to make Bra sympathetic have gotten more drastic.

Vegito's "I will kill you" flashback implies all Bra's issues come from him. In that scene, Bra is small, innocent, and vulnerable compared to Vegito's huge and menacing...

What does this accomplish, if not to make Bra sympathetic? If we'd had even a shred of context to this--if we'd seen Bra literally just murdered billions of innocent people, like we saw today--Vegito wouldn't come off as a bad guy. So Bra is unambiguously portrayed as a victim (right in the middle of U18 Bra telling us she's not. Hmmm.)

However, on this page she genocided a solar system without Vegito threatening her beforehand. We can't even blame SS2 for Bra's genocidal tendencies because she attempted the same thing on Earth at the tender age of 6 as only a SS1. Still, Bra's statement right before she introduced this flashback...
...has her clearly indicate her terror of Vegito is the defining moment of her life and the cause of all her issues.

This "abusive Vegito" angle--this implication Bra is awful and susceptible to Babidi because she's in constant fear for her life--wasn't implied at all in-webomic from 2008-2018. From the forum:
And from the user Axalon:
U16 was portrayed as nothing but happy and functional for about a decade, and Vegito's relationship with his daughter as nothing but good. (If anything, he was too soft on her: her killing Zangya gets a "good job".) Either it's a gaffe in planning and execution, or it's a retcon. Granted, by 2016 U16 was starting to be retconned into being darker, but Vegito is still seen as mostly a good guy prior to the tournament. On Page 1234 we see Vegito has been damaged by Bra after dealing with her for 2.5 days, but Bra herself doesn't have a scratch. Definitely abusive.

Even as late as 2019 when Majin Bra confronts Gohan, it's her resentment of putting up with and protecting weak people which she gives as her motivation, not her fear of her dad or wanting to get back at him. (She's Majinized and finally speaking what she's always wanted to say: why wouldn't she mention her fear of Vegito to Gohan if it's as big a deal as she later said it was?)

Not to mention there's author quotes. On page 278 it was said Bra "may not have Gohan's life and challenge", and Bra is described as "spoiled" on page 1198: a far cry from the traumatized, abused wreck she's now implied to be.

So this "abusive Vegito" angle is very recent. It seems to have been done to make Bra sympathetic by shifting the blame to Vegito when Bra is at her worst, making Bra "redeemable". Really, it's still Bra's fault, and she should still face consequences for it. (If anything, Vegito being willing to prioritize billions of innocent lives over his daughter's is admirable, and giving her a warning first is showing restraint.) "Abusive Vegito" contradicts years of prior characterization, and if anything Bra is even less sympathetic than she was. Since we've just learned she killed Goten, this implies Bra's so not-bothered by this she still relentlessly mocks and belittles him. I can only call that abusive...and it seems Vegito and Gohan don't even care.

Again, I wonder what's the point. There are theories on the forum that Bra is meant to be a "better" Vegeta: a Vegeta that's more sympathetic and "cool" (and exploitable for fanservice. Hmmm.) But if DBM's express purpose is to be a better DBZ sequel than GT, why was it decided spending SO MUCH TIME on Bra would accomplish that? Bra has double Goku's screentime! Most fights, longest fights, longest arc, the most fanart, four separate specials...

While it's a much less clear-cut thing at this point whether Bra's objectively not as bad a person as Vegeta (going by this page, I doubt he has her killcount in most universes), the reasons why people like Vegeta better and find him more sympathetic are obvious.

1) Vegeta failed constantly and thus was relatable even though he was awful. Bra hasn't been defeated in over 1500 pages and generally does most everything BETTER than most everyone. Vegeta falls to a group effort; Bra beats a group effort. (Read: she is better than LITERALLY EVERY HERO ON THE FIELD COMBINED, heroic sacrifices and all!) Every time Vegeta messed up, he got immediate karma; Bra has never faced any real negative consequences for her actions. Vegeta suffered immense agony even trying to disobey Babidi; the first time Bra attempts it, she breaks free completely, to an extent Vegeta never did.
2) Vegeta never made excuses for himself. Even dying at Goku's feet because of Frieza, he didn't excuse his behavior. Bra does.
3) Even at his most prominent, Vegeta never eclipsed Goku. Bra has.
4) Vegeta has had more sympathetic qualities than Bra. We've never seen Bra be kind to anyone or look out for anyone besides herself. Her most sympathetic moment is shedding a single tear for Pan, and even then, Chapter 27 of the novel indicates Pan would rather get strangled to death by Bojack than face what Bra would do to her should she forfeit. This is for a character initially presented as heroic! And yet Vegeta, initially presented as villainous, still showed better manners, displayed better teamwork and concern for his allies on Namek, and was more complimentary to his relatives in Cell saga. He complimented Trunks' strength to Cell: when was the last time Bra complimented her relatives?

No amount of tragic story retcons will make Bra sympathetic until she's either failed, become nicer, admitted she's wrong, or gone away.

Well said Ashanark!

As we discussed in the past, Bra is indeed a unique character from a in-universe and out-universe perspective. So much is focused on her that one can have endless debates on what is really right or wrong with her. As our good friend Axalon pointed out, once upon a time Universe 16 wasn't dysfunctional and was literally another U18. Vegito was the perfect continuation of his Buu saga self and Bra only had issues with controlling her power and rage, but displayed no hidden traumas that later on showcased. But page 742 changed it all since Vegito actually wished to kill his own son, shooting off the destabilization of U16 we see today in this comic as Bra became more 'unhinged' as time went on. Was it all planned to be like this initially? I cannot say for certain, but Universe 13 was originally just gonna be a Universe where Vegeta killed Freeza and Kakarotto was just a psychopath, thus had nothing else to show. Yet over time new ideas came so they expanded the backstory where @ouv himself stated on page 1697 that a Cyborg/Cell and Broly specials are in the brainstorming phases. Ideas that weren't necessary or intended to happen initially by Salagir. Heck, one can even interpret that Kakarotto's and Vegeta's relationship wasn't horribly toxic initially since Kakarotto and Vegeta were able to tolerate one another from the first round and most of the second. But as the years went on, it was better to make the disparities between them even greater, which the novel does a nice job at doing. Now they openly hate each others guts and try to avoid the other, which was heavily implied before they even came to the tournament despite how they acted in the literally beginning of DBM comic-wise.

So what the point of me saying all of this? Simple, and that is that regarding Universe 16, the new years and fresh ideas changed the original perception of Universe 16 to make them far more messed up that wasn't wholly seen in the past. This is good and bad. Good because it creates a negative outlook on a Universe that the closest to our Beloved Universe 18 for a unique twist, but bad because it does retcon or replaced established quirks that we were running with for years. And in Bra's case, the bad is extremely noticeable since it changes her actual character to be more tragic and psychopathic-like than usual. And when you mix in her poor reception by the fans, yet strong push by the official DBM Team, the fluctuating opinions and focus on her further distorts her initial portrayal even further. She is a basket case, but interesting enough to review since she has a lot going on, regardless how she is viewed. Personally I am not a big fan of her and find the focus on her a bit too much (has three whole chapters dedicating to her fighting in the majin arc which is more than any other person has received, Ginyu sub-plot maintaining her image, etc), but I can only hope some form of 'comeuppance' occurs since her character is being set up for great changes. If she doesn't learn from her mistakes despite breaking free from Babidi and regretting killing all those people at the tournament, there is no hope for her and will be better off dead. She failed herself to become better and live up to her counterparts words in-universe, and frankly the DBM team would have failed us out-universe since they couldn't make her 'truly sympathetic' by her finally admitting to her mistakes in-universe and trying to become a better person. But sadly, I think the comeuppance may still be a dream given her personality on page 418, ridiculing the very people that makes up her own father. So I have low hopes for her, which is a shame since she has basically became the face of DBM on official advertising. Bra is a double-edge sword, so I hope the DBM team uses her carefully because any more drastic effects can seriously impact their story, positively or negatively. If they have a plan and make reasonable usages of her that will benefit the story, I am all game for it. But if she just here to satisfy Asura's and Salagir's apparent fondness for her and simply be eye candy with potential deemed greater than even Vegetto for no real reason, this will be a catastrophe and a slap to any reader who believes in DBM still. Only time will tell on how this all plays out...

Classy_Skeleton was saying: Pffft. Imagine only creating an explosion big enough to destroy a single planet. There wasn't even enough power to destroy the planet right next to her. If your gonna go big, you might as well go as big as you can get. How disappointing Bra.

If Vegito did this, he would have blown up two planets next to him. Broly in universe 3 would've destroyed all the planets by running into them. For a child, I am kinda disappointed in her she is Vegito's spawn couldn't even do right.

IchigoMait was saying: She is that way because of Vegito. If Vegito had never treated her like a threat and instead be a proper father, she would have never become the way she is.
Is she though? Outside of the genetics behind being born from a fused saiyan parent, he hasn't done anything yet at this point in the story/timeline to warrant her mental instability.
Even then given her genetic makeup and personality I'd say that Vegetto "treating her as a threat" still isn't, or at least in my opinion, shouldn't be the reason for her being the way she is. As Gaga said, baby she was born this way.

Honestly? I reckon her being forced into playing Space Cop is more of a factor since it clashes so hard against her personality.

These groupings don't make any sense. I would argue that Pan and Trunks is probably a GT reference, and I appreciate that, but it still doesn't make sense. Let me try and fix it.

Group 1- Vegito. There's no room for anyone else on this team because of his ego.

Group 2- Kibito Kai teleporting Trunks and Goten, that way Gotenks is an option if things go sideways.

Group 3- Elder Kai teleporting Gohan (he should be okay alone, though the kais could swap out if he needs minor backup).

Group 4- Bra teleporting Pan and Videl, as the two children could use some adult supervision, and the adult could use the added protection.

Additionally, I'd recruit Piccolo, likely to Gohan's team. If Pan and Videl are going, Piccolo should be going.

Vegito does not appreciate the divinity of The Great Saiyaman!!

Vegetto seems to dislike Videl, as seen here and in a previous U16 special. I wonder why. He wasn't shown to be like this in the main tournament though.

kcheeb was saying: I only see 3 people who can teleport (vegito, kaioshin, bra). How can they send 4 groups?

It seems both Kaioshins (Kibitoshin and Old Kaioshin) can teleport. In fact the chapter cover has probably already shown the grouping.

kcheeb was saying: I only see 3 people who can teleport (vegito, kaioshin, bra). How can they send 4 groups?

The cover page literally shows the 4 groups and vegitto even says "gohan will go with ONE of the kais" so the other Kai (Kibitoshin) is part of a different group

Now I know why Bra got a trauma. She faced Gorkor the great!!!

I, for one, don't mind the art style.

Trunks looks annoyed for some reason. By Pan or by Vegetto?

Just like Bakugo was so stuck up over how awesome he was, and had to face his own inadequacy when he realized that he not only couldn't force Deku to use his true strength in their initial fight, but he was completely out-thought in the process.

I wonder what U16 Gohan is going to be like when he gets resurrected? Will he forgive Bra? Or will he be pretty pissed about what she did? After all, she was part of (if kinda unwillingly) a rebellion that claimed the lives of his wife, mentor, and his own life. If anything, I think he'll be very disappointed in her. Who knows, maybe she'll have to work to gain his respect and trust again.