This comic is very much of it's time. Not just the references. But the type of humour feels very late 00's early 10's werbcomic. That's not a bad thing. Just interesting.

Ok, that second panel was pretty funny.

iron leaf was saying: Interesting detail. XXI counts in years, not minutes. The paneling looks cool on this page. You could bring that in more often. And nice to see Eleim for a change.

It still doesn't make much sense to use
Earth's year as a measurement for a
Universal entity, but ok

mAc Chaos was saying: Royaken was saying:
So yeah... this fight should be one sided and it should be in favor of the humans.


Between DB and Z, there was five years of Goku training. His power level only went up about 100. Same with Piccolo.

You're not wrong. And this would be a good point. Here's the issue I have with it personally (again, it's a personal issue). Goku and Piccolo believed themselves to be the strongest people in the entire world. And they were. When Raditz showed up they were severally outclassed.

Knowing this, Piccolo was able to train for one year and become literally 6x stronger than he had been for his entire life up to that point. And some of that was against a Gohan who had barely any power. As Gohan got stronger, I'm sure it helped, but training with someone half your strength or less can only get you so far.

And yet, Piccolo was still able to get to 3k+ in that time. Having only been around 500 the year before that and training for 5 years before that.

Not to mention, Krillin was about what... 200? 300? I don't recall, but he, Yamcha, and Tien all became stronger than Raditz within one year. Yes, quality of training is important. But the only training they all did in that one year was against each other. Yet Krillin still became 5x stronger in that one year.

My guess with this is because they had a new idea of a new plateau they needed to hit. This makes sense time and time again when you consider Tien as well. In the 3 years before the Androids showed up all he did (as far as we could see) was train with Chioutzu and, let's be honest, his strength gains had nothing to do with Chioutzu being his partner xD.

So yes, while in the 5 year time between DB and Z Piccolo and Goku didn't get much stronger, Piccolo managed to not only train Gohan from a 5 to a 1k+, but also managed to bump himself from 500 to 3k+ with an opponent less than half his power.

He did also train with his own multiforms, but that cuts yer power down. So still. And again, Krillin being even weaker than goku and Piccolo trained himself to ve stronger than raditz in that 1 year by training with Yamcha, Tien, Chioutzu, and Yajarobe. None of whom were strong enough before hand to beat Goku or Piccolo but were then stronger than Raditz after that one year.

So no, it still doest make sense, given that information, for them to be this weak after 10 years. In DB, maybe, but in Z it doesn't fit.


DemonKing was saying: There's no way Nappa should be able to genuinely hurt Krillin.


This shouldn't be any type of death blow.


Best case scenario Nappa is around 8-10k power level.


Krillin should be 15k+ easily.

Nappa was an adult when Vegeta was like... 5 years old. Jump 20 years later and he's still only about 6-8k in the Saiyan Saga. And, considering how you were classified as elite or low class the day you were born in the old Saiyan culture, I doubt Nappa was far off of the same number when Vegeta was 5. So, without the saiyans actually training (which, again, they never even considered doing before Goku), I don't see him even gaining that 2k in the 10 years since Goku died.

Yeah it really doesn't make sense.

And I certainly agree about Krillin. He should be 15k+ at the very least.

Why do you think South is under the influence of XXI?

I see a lot of people assuming things here, only by this one page, even comparing this to Son Bra again for some reason. Sorry, but to be honest I think it's kinda funny how fast some people jump to conclusions here sometimes. How about we just wait how this plays out, instead of instantly going into the "Raditz being a weak joke character" mode again? Additionally, as iron leaf already said, it's probably better to just ignore chapter 100 in the future.

All I can say for now is, that it wouldn't make sense for Old Kai to lie here. He gave Raditz the ritual in order to make him stronger than U13 Vegeta (page 1122), and if he didn't knew damn well before they began, that Raditz would be stronger than his Vegeta (so stronger as a SSJ3, hence also stronger as South Kaioshin) in the end, he wouldn't even have started the ritual.

Surely there will be a good explanation for everything in the upcoming pages... ;)

John-no-arms was saying: Ammar was saying: Okay, this is really starting to piss me off... What's the point of this if Raditz is gonna be the butt of the joke again???

MrPerson0 was saying: Of course Raditz isn't even close to being as strong as him. Wonder if XXI secretly gave South Supreme Kai a boost as well.
I seriously want to know why a lot of people have this mindset? Obviously Salagir share this mindset (much to my annoyance -_-) but I need to know why people believe that no matter what Raditz does, he won't reach the level of Goku and Vegeta.

Didn't we all watch DBZ? Didn't we see Raditz ko'ed Goku with one hit (something that never happened before in the anime)? Didn't two of the strongest people on earth (at that time) join together to take him out and they miserably failed? Didn't Raditz was about to win if Gohan didn't interfered and saved his dad? Didn't Goku, the main character sacrificed himself in order to take Raditz out?

Does that make Raditz a joke or a serious villain like Vegeta and the others? And power wise, if Goku who was a lot weaker than Raditz could reach the highests of SSJ3 and beyond, then why can't Raditz?

It's this mindset that Raditz is a weakling that decided what we see in this page, not from story and character perspective.

Yes, Raditz is a character with a lot of wasted potential (he is the main character's evil brother, who was also much stronger than him with much less training, as someone wrote above, and, why not, he could have had a redemptiom arc if better used by Toryiama!).

I agree that he should be seen as a threat as much as Vegeta, because of how he broke Dragon Ball's power scale in the beginning of DBZ.

I particularly blame TFS and their DBZ Abridged series for turning Raditz into a joke (same applies to Yamcha). Of course, DBZA is fun and made a lot of people laugh back then (myself included) but it kinda took more room into the "fandom subconscious mind" than it should (IMHO)


Now for this page: maybe the mental block does not apply to "good people", but is specifically aimed to Kayoshins? The old Kayoshin knows that there are probably Kayoshins in his universe, so perhaps he blocked Raditz against his kind, in order for them to easily neutralize him, if such need arises.

"Much less training"

?? Raditz was a Saiyan warrior, his day job was attacking planets and conquering them, he didn't train like Goku, but he was fighting all his life, longer than Goku in fact due to him being older, and all he had to show for it was a 1k power level.

Okay, this is really starting to piss me off... What's the point of this if Raditz is gonna be the butt of the joke again???

MrPerson0 was saying: Of course Raditz isn't even close to being as strong as him. Wonder if XXI secretly gave South Supreme Kai a boost as well.
I seriously want to know why a lot of people have this mindset? Obviously Salagir share this mindset (much to my annoyance -_-) but I need to know why people believe that no matter what Raditz does, he won't reach the level of Goku and Vegeta.

Didn't we all watch DBZ? Didn't we see Raditz ko'ed Goku with one hit (something that never happened before in the anime)? Didn't two of the strongest people on earth (at that time) join together to take him out and they miserably failed? Didn't Raditz was about to win if Gohan didn't interfered and saved his dad? Didn't Goku, the main character sacrificed himself in order to take Raditz out?

Does that make Raditz a joke or a serious villain like Vegeta and the others? And power wise, if Goku who was a lot weaker than Raditz could reach the highests of SSJ3 and beyond, then why can't Raditz?

It's this mindset that Raditz is a weakling that decided what we see in this page, not from story and character perspective.

Well. This is getting out of hand. I gotta hand it to him... Krillin was really handy with that Kienzan. Maybe Vegeta will give Nappa a hand now. Or maybe Nappa will hand things off to him. Unless he can get a handle on things with Krillin. If they manage to kill the Earthlings the planet will sell well and they'll make money hand over fist. That is if they don't get all handsy with it first.

Okay I'll stop now.

Eu fico pensando o que aconteceu com o Vegeta?, ele tinha virado Super Saiyajin no final do outro especial e nunca mais apareceu, será que eles ainda vão aproveitar esse plot dele ainda?, tipo ele indo pra terra em busca de vingança ou sla

Ayashi was saying: DrewSaga was saying: Gogetto was saying: I hole they spent those 10 years in the time chamber. They're gonna need it. I'm hoping we get an epic yamcha v Vegeta fight. Also I wonder if yamcha and bulma have a kid in this timeline

Honestly if the humans got their 48 Hours (2 Years inside the HTC) of training in the HTC then surely they'd be well above the Saiyans. Even Oozaru Vegeta wouldn't top that (or at least unlikely that he would).
lol no. People forget how ridiculous DBZ was...
"Oozaru Vegeta" should clock around 180k PL.
The humans could have trained themselves to a hundred times their end-of-dragonball power and they'd still fall against Nappa's Oozaru form let alone Vegeta's!


Where are you getting your numbers from? Even in the android saga Krillen's PL is higher than Frieza. There no way the humans power at the end of Z is lower than Saiyan saga vegeta.

In the original story, Krillin got his power level to 1,000 from 200 in a year's time. I feel like giving him and the others a 10-12x from 1,000 is reasonable.

The humans should wipe the floor with Nappa and Radditz. I still think this story is going to end with Gohan vs Vegeta battling it out

I'm sorry Thorn, but I find that hard to believe. Icarion (Thorn's home planet) was presented more like a fantasy world in the sense of Lord of the Rings. Just from my first impression, I had the feeling that Alcmenians don't use technology much, but gather and pass on their knowledge traditionally. But they do have spaceships, so it is fine, I guess ... But that said, I find Thorn walks a fine line between competence and plot integrity. An OC who exceeds in the areas of established canon characters? Bulma is great at tech stuff and inventions, but Thorn is even better. Naw, you have to be careful not to overshadow the canon character too much. Nobody likes Gary Stus.

To the other point. Videl is superbly involved in the plot without putting her in danger. Brilliant idea with the helmet. Hopefully we'll see more of her in the future.

John-no-arms was saying: I think the last panel is not a flash back anymore - as Goten-Kun said, flashbacks have round corners.

The last pannel is 10 years later!
I wonder if at any moment in these 10 years the Z warriors stopped believing that the Sayians would eventually arrive and stopped training. If not, if they kept preparing, they would be very, very strong by now (at least for humans). The big disadvantage here, as far as I understand, is that their reference of strength is a 1200 power level Raditz, and it is impossible that in 10 years the sayians didn't get loads and loads of zenkais! Not to mention that Vegeta was already 15 times stronger than this "referential Raditz". Maybe he didn't get as many zenkais due to being stronger, but his power was alreadybbeyond legendary by classic DB standards (stronger than Demon King Picollo, who was considered "god-level strong" by the earthlings - what I mean is: imagine their shock when they face Vegeta, considering that Raditz was already unbelievably strong from their point of view!)

Actually it would make sense if the Saiyans didn't get much stronger. We don't get a great idea of how strong their opponents are, but I think it's safe to assume they usually are too weak to bring them to near death, otherwise at least one of them probably would have been killed off by now. No near death fights = no zenkai. I can't imagine they train much either, if they usually outclass their opponents there would be no need.

DB Tyrant was saying: Is that the Sword Gohan could barely lift????

How did Videl get so strong?

I would love to get a few Side Chapters that show us just THAT Universe specifically. I mean there was a Website which was kinda specialising in Universe Three and Nine - but now it is gone and i can not access it anymore. :-/

I always thought the choreography of this page was weird, it looks like cold was winding up a kick but instead he punches the sword.

Also nice coloring on Goku.

YellNinja1600 was saying: Kaio Ken Videl looks fantastic. I think cold final form is strong as 17 or 16. So this form is maybe as strong as Trunks super saiyan when he first appeared ?
John-no-arms was saying: Well, this form is at least superior to mecha-Frieza, since it gave SSJ Goku some trouble (as far as we can tell by reading the special Chapter about the "original timeline").
What would its power level be?
Some sources say that original form Frieza (4th form)is in the 120 million range when 100% powered. Mecha Frieza is what? 150 million? I'd say King Cold is about 160~170 million in his "3rd form". Which makes this Videl really amazing for a human! Unless she is able to dodge him just by "fighting skills" alone!
He's quite a bit above that. In the special, Gohan confirmed Goku's gains on Yardrat were actually pretty significant, and yet Goku still got his ass handed to him by third form Cold. Goku was potentially stronger than Trunks at the time, so he would surely lose to Cold as well if he fought alone. Furthermore, this version of Cold trained his body after Ginyu took it over.

...Yet, despite all of that, I sill think he should be no match to her right now. After training with the Z-Sword in base, Gohan is implied to be stronger than he was against Cell, and he would never have been able to hold the sword in his hands at 10x gravity. It's no wonder she killed a Majinized Cell Jr.

I'm still waiting on that lie that Bulma told earlier in the chapter to be explained.

Why does he need the other Dragon Balls when he got his own...

I wonder if Piccolo can spawn deformed Namekian followers like King Piccolo could.

Rodriog was saying: nintendo is known for suing a lot of people
I still don't understand your sentence.
Who is "I"? "I" got what?

Agora é o momento de o Gohan U16 se perguntar por que Babidi e Daburá nunca surgiram no universo mirai, ou se surgiram mas nunca causaram problemas a ponto de Trunks nunca ter percebido suas presenças, e do próprio Trunks revelar até que ponto e o quanto ele soube da ameaça Majin. Se Gohan Mirai contou, provavelmente ele achou que eram aliens fracos e menos ameaçadores que os androides já que foram derrotados "rapidamente" tanto que esqueceu de avisar dessa invasão dali a 7 anos (Trunks mirai tem problemas de memória, já que no U11 ele destrói a incubadora do Cell sem saber do que se tratava, mas esqueceu de verifica-la no U15 e foi morto por sua forma imperfeita).