ShadyDoorags was saying: I'm not a fighter... but how does one break their hand punching someone's head that they were planning on punching anyway? Would that not do more damage to the head?
Actually, this is exactly how it works IRL. Skulls are famously much harder than the bones in your hands, and punching someone's head with your bare nuckles is a good way to break your hand. People think Boxing gloves are for protecting people's bodies, but they actually allow you to punch even harder than you can with bare nuckles, because your fist is protected.

So to everyone here who keeps complaining on every single page and are even as rude to demand that the fight should finally end, just because they get too bored by it.

First, this may come across harsh now, but the readers have nothing to demand here.

Second, I have a simple solution for you. Please do yourself a favor and take a break for a while. Literally nobody forces you to come here every day to complain about the pacing. Comments like these change absolutely nothing anyway. If I think something bores me that much, like it seems to do for several other people here, then I personally wouldn't come back to it every day and keep getting bored by it. Some people are also pretty rude about this.

Just try to sit back and enjoy, if you can't do that, you can always take a break and come back later. I assume you have this much self control.

The release rhythm of DBM is nothing new, so it definitely may feel slow when reading page after page every 3 days. But you always have to see it in hindsight. It takes you like 15 minutes or so to binge read all what we've seen so far from this fight. This is actually nothing. It would be honestly ridiculous to shorten the fight, just to adapt to the release rhythm.

And as Salagir said: "this is goddamm Goku vs Vegeta, so we take our time!"
So you have to deal with that, guys. ;P

I don't get why people are complaining. This is great. A real fight of equal rivals. No tricks, no asspulls, nothing really at stake, just the two of them trying to come out on top. I understand how Pan felt in the previous page. The references are cool too.

No offense to the writers, but I'm not convinced this is in character for Giran! I also think it would have been nice to see Krillin actually land some attacks since I think he was more than capable at this point in the story - even if they may be trying to portray him as being smart and resourceful.

DrewSaga was saying: Giran is rather smooth-brained. "Oh look it here, I am gonna jump out of the ring and we both lose, even though Krillin hasn't touched the ground and I am."

Funny that Krillin did better against him than Goku did. I kind of thought Giran had a good shot at winning but he is as much of a jobber as Yamcha I guess.

It's funny, I think Goku should have lost that match for using kinto-un - that felt like some plot armour to me.

rapidge was saying:
It wasn't until recently I realized that Goku never actually beat Vegeta...this was a big deal.


He kinda did.

He was superior to Vegeta on Namek. Even went Supersaiyan. Could have defeated Vegeta there any Moment he wanted.

He was superior to Vegeta on the Cell Games. Could have defeated Vegeta there any Moment he wanted.

When he was knocked out by Majin Vegeta in the early Buu Saga - Goku thought they wouldn't "fight" anymore. So i can hardly count that as a genuine Loss. Also Goku could have went Supersaiyan Three and would have been superior once again.

He k~iiinnnda lost that one Time in the hyperbolic Liontamer, shortly before Vegeta angered Gohan enough so that Gohan threatened to murder Vegeta. (lol) This is already DBM-Fictiom, right ?
In the Hyperbolic Liontamer back there, Goku could have ALSO went Supersaiyan Three and would have defeated Vegeta quickly there.


And now ... ... ... this.

Seriously we will NEVER see Vegeta clearly beat Goku FOREVER - when both are pretty much equal AND are using the same State, Level, etc.



Maybe that is an "okay thing/Rule" of the Dragon Ball Universe - but that doesn't make it any less annoying.

Paradise Lost was saying: Vegeta and his fans are in shambles after this defeat.

Even in fanfic he is still Goku's second

Vegeta will sadly never beat Goku where it counts

Smh. Vegeta is losing too many of these little moments. Big sad as a Vegeta fan. But yes, the page is awesome.

Besides that, the universe(s) of DB is/are fictional, it doesn't have to follow the rules of our real world.

kaybag was saying: ZenBuu was saying: kaybag was saying: So quick! Just like the authors were to show us who won the fight!

Art is beautiful nonetheless.
Are we going to repeat this every page now? At some point it will even be against rule #11...just saiyan.
Can't we just please sit back and enjoy the fight without crying every page "that we already know who the winner is"?

My sincerest apologies for commenting my thoughts on the current page and how it relates to the rest of the chapter.

Dear Lord Kami, this. I get that it may be a bit repetitive hearing the same complaints in the comments, but it's a very valid one! As much as I'm trying to enjoy the art and choreography it's getting weighed down by the knowledge of the victor in the back of my head.

Oh Vegeta, you have no idea how much I'm looking forward to seeing you get your arm broken. Again.

this made me Laugh, Zamasu Varga is a favorite

Can they already perform it just by seeing it?
OR do they plan to figure it out now to level up their game?

Isn't that Pan a whole lot taller than she should be? by...A LOT.

What's with a lot of these covers lately being so awesome? Gast is gonna win against Bra because Bra is getting too drunk, assuming the tournament ever restarts again.

Also I like how the news says back to the tournament even though supposedly the tournament has been cancelled and it's really another big battle with everyone vs Buu. Still, everyone besides XXI, Gast and maybe Vegetto and Bra seems useless in this situation like what the heck is Goku and Vegeta gonna do man? Better question is what's Uub going to do?

Chayote Ssj was saying: I want vegetto to take action we have been waiting years for a healthy vegetto vs zen Buu I think disregarding any trickery that it would be a great fight and that vegetto would win high difficulty its finally happening and I'm all for it

I don't see Vegetto beating Zen Buu. Zen Buu has too many powerful magic abilities for Vegetto (yes, I know Vegetto tanked the Candy Beam but Buu has better abilities now to deal with him). I think Buu could just wear Vegetto out.

عمار was saying: .........Oh! Ahem! Sorry! I was a....umm...

Anyway!!!

We're finally back to the tournament! ...Or Buu's 2nd rampage. Who's Going to stop him?! Gast? Vegetto? XXI? Mary Sue?! xD

Definitely Mary Sue! She is gonna go Ultra Instinct and beat Zen Buu while Cyborg Yamcha and Mystic Raditz teams up and beats XXI and his friend, and then an evil Ultra Instinct Shaggy is gonna show up and the real Multiversal Madness begins, and then it will end with Mary Sue fusing with Cyborg Yamcha and Mystic Raditz as well as Vegetto and then Goku and Vegeta fuse into Gogeta and fuses with both Gotenkses and all three Piccolos merge with Gast to take down evil Shaggy.

Edit: Oh, and both Gohans unlock Gohan Blanko and fuse together to fight the evil Shaggy.

Cell should open the fight with. How's the spine?

Except this isn't exclusive to Buu. All the Z Fighters can do this. The anime doesn't give it a name as far as I'm aware, but the Wiki calls it Mimicry and I'm assuming it's probably because that i what one or more of the video games calls the ability.

Then you'd think Goku or Vegeta can use Special Beam Canon, Tien use Kaioken, Gohan use the Spirit Bomb or Piccolo using Solar Flare but they don't even use those techniques (Okay, U9 Tien can use Kaioken apperently but that's never shown in the DBM manga here). I don't know how more advanced techniques can just be copied on the fly like this one, you'd think it would take practice, what made Buu special was he could use those techniques right off the bat decently well. Dang, that means Cell might have copied this technique by now after experiencing Bra use it against him.

So King Piccolo will now go back to his universe but with the seeds of compassion now planted and probably end up making that universe better.

Joker0045 was saying: Venkolm was saying: Shabby was saying: ShadowMokujin was saying: FormerlyChuck's was saying: Do people really want to see a fight between U18 Goku and Vegeta in DBM? Sounds boring. Not that it couldn't or wouldn't be interesting, but aren't we here to see things we haven't seen?

Besides Vegeta already beat Goku twice in canon (not in the way vegeta wanted to though in their 2nd fight)

Because Goku was holding SS3 back, that doesn't count.

Actually, it counts. Let's not mention that back then, SS3 was non-existent. So when everybody watched, they saw Vegeta defeating Kakarrot.
It doesn't count. If you have to sneak attack your opponent when you initially both agree that the fight is over, then it's not a W.

Wither its honorable or not a win is a win

Xman321 was saying: foo was saying: Also, regarding South galaxy... that's just lame special filler. It's just one of many egregious examples of wild inconsistencies present in the fillers. Thankfully, saligir has kept his manga at least as consistent to the main storyline manga as he can. Ssj1 is planet busting levels, galaxy busting is absurd, especially for someone who can't teleport and easily dies inside an ordinary star.

South Galaxy being destroyed comes from the original movie that Broly was made for. It's not 'filler' because it's not filling in for time or anything of the like. It's not even a part of the television continuity in anyway. It's a separate piece of media from the TV show that's released separately as well. Filler isn't the word you're looking for.

You are right though. Broly's power was slightly scaled back from that. Paragus only mentions the Legendary Super Saiyan is destroying 'planets' back in the redone special.


Xman321 was saying: foo was saying: Also, regarding South galaxy... that's just lame special filler. It's just one of many egregious examples of wild inconsistencies present in the fillers. Thankfully, saligir has kept his manga at least as consistent to the main storyline manga as he can. Ssj1 is planet busting levels, galaxy busting is absurd, especially for someone who can't teleport and easily dies inside an ordinary star.

South Galaxy being destroyed comes from the original movie that Broly was made for. It's not 'filler' because it's not filling in for time or anything of the like. It's not even a part of the television continuity in anyway. It's a separate piece of media from the TV show that's released separately as well. Filler isn't the word you're looking for.

You are right though. Broly's power was slightly scaled back from that. Paragus only mentions the Legendary Super Saiyan is destroying 'planets' back in the redone special.

Yes, filler is typically meant to represent content added between the manga pages in the anime. However, all of the movies are essentially filler that fills in stories that never happened in the original manga so not sure if there's a big enough distinction to merit nitpicking on my larger point.

That being said, the South galaxy was never destroyed in DBM. Saligir states in his FAQ that the original Broly movie was modified for his Canon and so only his retelling is accurate to DBM. On page 171 Saligir modified the story from destroying South Galaxy to "... legendary saiyan who recently appeared and had been destroying planets one by one."

Hope that clarifies the South Galaxy issue for everyone.

>Doesn't try to use magic
>Doesn't use IT to dodge
>Doesn't go inside of Broly to blow him up from the inside
>Doesn't drag Broly into space to fight there
Holy shit, end this garbage already, HACKlagir.
Nice traced pose from Kaio Ken Goku punching Bejita btw.
https://i.4cdn.org/a/1619809254085.jpg

So many people saying 'no consequences', when Bra has to live her entire life with Vegetto, Gohan, Pan, everyone, knowing she killed her brother, Piccolo, and thousands of innocents. But sure. She only gets rewarded for this.

The lot of you think the only punishment fitting is a permanent death, so you can satisfy your desire to see a 16-year old girl die.

I saw this going a lot of ways, but I didn't anticipate Gotenks being the voice of reason. I don't hate it, after all he does have an older version of Trunks inside him, and we've seen more than one version of Trunks that is capable of being serious. I saw a lot of people complaining about this being out of character for Gotenks because Gotenks never takes anything seriously, but I'm willing to bet these same people also don't think that comedians often suffer from depression, and that the guy everyone knows as the class clown isn't just using humor to defuse tension and get attention because of their own insecurities. Humor is often a shield for those who simply can't handle things getting too serious, but it doesn't mean they don't have a serious side.

slushie was saying: So only one standing up to Vegeto is his own family.

I mean, Goku and Gast aren't Vegito's family. Goku didn't get directly involved yet, but he spoke up just before Gast dropped Vegito like a sack of potatos.

Ashanark was saying: Chapter 148 of the novelization explicitly shows it's a U18 Trunks/U16 Goten fusion. As well as page 1436, showing U16 Trunks standing next to Vegito while Gotenks is next to Buu.

I can't speak on the novelization as I never look at it, but the page you're pointing to also shows both versions of Pan standing by Goku, so I don't think we can assume they're standing near their own universes exclusively. Novelization aside, we don't have any specific guarantee which Goten and Trunks is in there. Though I'd be confused as to why they wouldn't have just fused with their own universe members if they were available.

UMW was saying: Edit: [Bra] is definitely the character we're supposed to root for, but she's lost at least half the audience in that regard. And the refusal of the story to pivot, cements it.

(This large section wasn't entirely aimed at UMW so much as at the argument that Salagir wants us to root for Bra in general. So if it seems like I get off topic a tad, but that's only because I'm replying to a bunch of arguments I've seen, just not to any one person in particular. Sorry if that isn't clear.)

Salagir himself said that Bra isn't really supposed to be sympathetic or likable, but that's not the same as saying she is evil or guilty of murder. I'm absolutely willing to defend her against Vegito here, but I'm not willing to say that I sympathize with her, or even necessarily like her. I do like how Salagir has written her, and against many people I will say that he foreshadowed pretty much all of this so far and followed a pretty logical path to get here. So far, the only thing that really caught me off guard is that it was Gotenks being the voice of reason and not Gogeta or Bra-18. And I guess I didn't expect Gast to take Vegito out of the fight immediately, but I hadn't ruled it out either, assuming that if Gogeta failed to stop Vegito, that Gast would step in at THAT point.

The reason I think that Bra is not supposed to be sympathetic but is also not evil or deserving of blame and punishment in this scenario all comes down to control. Bra was an unstable teenager that was then mind controlled by a space gremlin. Forget how or why she got controlled, she was a puppet. I don't care if Cell and Vegeta managed to shrug it off, hundreds if not thousands of other people couldn't shrug it off. So unless you somehow know how to cast the spell yourself, and thus fully understand it's limits, you can't really say why they could break free, or whether or not she could. We only know that before the majinization she did not kill any innocent people. The exception being the first time she went SS2, and she literally lost control of herself then too. Transformations in DB have shown a tendency to cause people to lose control if you aren't ready for them. If Bra is responsible for killing Goten when she went SS2, then Goku is equally responsible for killing grandpa Gohan when he became a Great Ape. You could argue they are different, but the argument falls flat since Vegeta could fully control his Great Ape transformation. Some people can control the power, others cannot.

Consider a real world scenario. If a kid gets kidnapped at a young age, brainwashed into thinking their kidnappers are actually the good guys and that what they are doing is best, and then the kid goes on to play bait for other kids to get kidnapped or for other crimes, what should happen here? For me, the kid should be rescued and given psychiatric help, then monitored for signs of regression and permanent psychological damages, but otherwise allowed to go free and live a full life as if they hadn't been involved in the crimes, NOT buried in an unmarked grave. This doesn't make the kid sympathetic for what they've done, it just makes you understand why they did what they did and how it really isn't their fault.

Bra isn't some righteous hero. She's an overpowered brat, and admittedly a little sadistic when she thinks her opponent is beyond redemption (the "bad guys"), but she never showed any inclination towards harming innocent people when she was fully under her own control, she is frankly not evil, and would not have done any of the things she did had she not been under the direct control of Babidi. She didn't just kill people under his control, she protected him. Why would Bra have any reason to do that other than because Babidi wanted her to? Unlike Cell and Vegeta, Bra was fully under his influence. Therefore, she is not responsible for what she did under his influence (unless a flashback shows her pulling a Vegeta and willfully accepting his control, under which circumstances I'll fully flip my opinion on the subject).

Looking forward to hearing more about how Vegetto is not a monster from the Bra-phobic fans.

Consider: we still have not seen U16 Pan's reaction to U16 Gohan being bisected by Bra. Why? Because if Pan actually asked Bra why she did that, or even reacted to it, that would make Bra look bad. There is no reason not to see this scene, yet instead, we've skipped over it. Why?

Instead, we have jumped straight to Vegito--as in-character as it is for him--kicking Bra. It's the exact same shindig as the flashback: an adult authority figure on both feet contrasted with a crying young girl on the ground and defenseless. (Note the goshdarn panel of her big, innocent, teary eyes!) Except now he's physically hurting her.

Vegito is not being portrayed as in the right here, or even justified in his anger.

If Vegito isn't in the right, then Bra is undeserving of this treatment, and therefore she is in the right.

Bra murdered all these people and she is in the right.

This is literally the exact worst possible outcome of this rebellion: Bra turns evil, kills everyone, breaks the seal by herself, apologizes, then immediately has Vegito not only not accept her apology, but physically abuse her so we feel sorry for her. Sigh.

People, in the last U16 special Bra f*cked up HARD and all she could think about is how cool it was that she was stronger than Gohan.

Now, she is broken, she is scared of Vegetto (panel 1), she is on the floor crying, she knows she will have to face consequences. She knows she f*cked up. Even harder than before.
I'm not excusing her behavior, but face it, her character is growing.

I'm telling you for months, love her or hater her, Bra is the best written character in DBM right now.
She will always be a less-than-likable person to most of us, but she is the only one with a meaningful arc with good character development. And now she is suffering for it lol.

Ashanark was saying: Well, that's that. I'm glad U4 Buu is so consistently great.

So, per Word of God as recent as last page, we are not supposed to like Bra. With that in mind I still can't get over how hilariously over-the-top DBM went with making Bra look innocent last page. Her eyes are like 20x bigger XD

Imagine if Toriyama had handled redemptions the same way DBM did…
https://i.postimg.cc/85QkR1dz/Oh-So-Sad.png" class="" alt="[img]" />

Well what are we supposed to find her then?
What is her purpose in this story?
I stand by what I said, she's the main character of DBM. If we're not supposed to like her and he obviously doesn't want us to hate her, then I don't know where all of this is going or what's happened so far in with her character.

Are you telling me we are supposed to not care about what's obviously the main character?

Tombo was saying: Therefore, I feel like he would imply the 'threat' in a way Vegeta would understand, but Pan would not.
I get your point but how else would Gohan have been able to make himself perfectly clear in this situation that isn't downright silly or cringe inducing?

Ashanark was saying: ~snip~

I don't want to argue Bra should be the central focus like she has been for the last couple of months.

I'm trying to say it would be silly to just write her out. And totally inconsistent.

If anything, my ideal DBM would be focusing on other characters, and having Bra focus on bettering herself as a well-written side plot we see a bit of every now and then.

Maybe put a special focus on other characters, but dedicating a few pages of each chapter to her development.

That way we see other characters and every now and then a bit of Bra, and a non-atrocious version of her at that. I'd say that'd be decent so long as it's well written, and if you weren't particularly fond of her character it wouldn't be too intrusive as it'd be a side plot.

But well, to each their own I guess. And that's just my wishful thinking. We'll have to wait and see what Salagir has in store for us.

snip

Lol, doesnt this contradict what Vegito said when he was fighting Broly? Vegito said that he never used SSJ2 until he fought Broly. How come he is using suddenly SSJ3? It makes 0 sense.

https://w...197.html#h_read

HOLY SHIT!!



Grash was saying: This plot has completely stalled so far. It would be best to pick up the pace and have the heroes actually score a victory for once.
The hell are you talking about? The "heroes" have been dominating this revolt from the beginning until ch.70.

The only "majin" fighters that have scored some kills are King Cold (Ginyu) & Cell. I even remember people complaining that none of the "heroes" has been killed.

Grash was saying: The last victory the heroes experienced was Gohan killing Ginyu and mincing up kakarotto.
Which was 3 chapters ago.

Grash was saying: Otherwise it has been defeat after defeat for a year.
It literally was one chapter that the good guys were losing. You feel it's been too long because DBM release 3 pages a week. But if you look back at all the budokai' chapters you will realise the good guys have been scoring more kills. Like seriously the only Majin left is Majin Bra.

Grash was saying: If all of these characters are mere fodder then the reader loses motivation to invest in them and care about their fate.
Speak for yourself. The Gohans & the Piccolos are not "fodder". They've been kicking asses left & right, DBM gives them the respect that they deserve (unlike DBS). Just because they have been now getting brutality killed by much much stronger opponent doesn't make them "fodder".

Grash was saying: If bra is portrayed as invincible then it makes it harder to write her defeat and make it logical
And who said she'll be defeated? Maybe she'll win? Have you ever thought of that possibility? Vegetto coming back, so sure that the Gohans & Bra took care of everything, only to see died Gohans & his daughter with the letter M on her forehead. His face will be priceless.

Grash was saying: I speculate that the reason the author separated most of the cast is because it would be too chaotic to write too many characters at once. (To be fair, Toriyama also accomplished this with fusions, absorptions, and the time chamber).
Uhhh No? The reason is to gave the other "side" characters a moment to shine & develop.

Grash was saying: However at this point the only thing the reader can do is wait for the main cast to return.
OH HELL NO! I'm really not in a hurry to see Vegetto's ugly ass face or any of these "main cast". Give me some armorless Phipsil please! No seriously, I want to see Phipsil without her armor...

Grash was saying: This removes all tension from the story because we are basically waiting for buu and gohan to die
Again, speak for yourself. I'm way too
curious to see what happens next.

Grash was saying: You have to balance the levity with the desperation. This is just my advice as one fictional author to another.
It is balanced. Go reread from "Babidi's trap" chapter.

Kakarotto broke the minion's plan of making a discreet escape, but they escaped nonetheless.

Why doesn't Slug go to Namak for the dragon balls, both in U13 and the movie?
(Sorry I haven't seen the movie)

why is he flying opposite direction of the way the blow hit?

Dang, grandpa Gohan is either dead or he was fast enough to escape.