XXI recap to save everyone else the trouble of tracking down the pages: page 993 page 1516 page 1983 page 2110

twitch.tv/reileo was saying: Once it is a dragon... Maybe Omega Shenron? :DThat actually sounds very plausible. It is often speculated that XXI's helper in the U5 apartment could possibly be some kind of DB dragon. A modified version of Porunga or Shenron that lived millions of years ago. Or simply a completely different dragon. The kind that GT introduced. Maybe this will be DBM's version of a Shadow Dragon. Considering that Golden Oozaru was also incorporated into DBM, that's not so far-fetched.

It's really weird, the panel shows the blast going straight through Vegeta, and subsequent panels show his armor was torn through on both front and back, but I can't find any panel that shows an actual hole through Vegeta... I wonder why they did it like that. My knee jerk response is to suggest censorship, although in this same arc, Frieza is cut into multiple pieces by a bladed disk. Maybe the rules are different for characters that are visibly aliens. I'm unfortunately not an expert on the rules for this stuff

Gast knows healing magic?

Yamcha: "I will explain everything, it went like this, I saved yo ass?"

Vegetto: "Wait, I had to be saved by Yamcha?"

Is this a joke? All that buildup and seemingly killing Vegito for... a nothingburger?
This is too much.

So it was just a vision or a simulation. Interesting that we'd see what happened after the saiyans were sent back to their own universe, because those events have nothing to do with the old kai's plans at that point. Misdirection I guess.

Wow, it actually was a vision. Here I'd thought there was no chance by this point.

I have a feeling this is a vision and an accurate depiction of how a power-rush to Raditz's head would go if he were to settle it at the tournament. Otherwise we'd never get an explanation of why U13 Vegeta couldn't be corrupted.

The rest of the Vegetas including our very own were either Majinized or shown to be arrogant if not too far beyond saving if they were to. One thing I never liked about Z was how Vegeta claimed to play 4D chess by "allowing" Babidi to control him in order to increase his power on that of Goku's level. Just looking at it, killing the audience at the WT was a bit too extreme even in the moment for Goku to overlook it later on in Z and Super. If he was susceptible in the universes where Buu saga played out like it did up until it deviated from U18, then I highly doubt a freaking brat such as U13 Vegeta could have been pure enough to fight off the mind control willingly.

Regardless, I'd like to see if Vegeta's potential to at the very least drop his Emperor act in favor of just chilling and to harbor the love of fighting (characteristics of Vegeta post Namek saga) explains it, and Raditz and Kakarotto are given the choice to leave Vegeta's crew. It makes sense for Raditz and Kakarotto to be susceptible to Babidi's mind control as Raditz never had the most noble intentions from what we've seen and Goku having never existed due to Kakarotto not getting dropped on the head.

Either way we need an explanation of what makes Vegeta a Vegeta to determine whether he and Raditz can make up or whatever if this is all a vision. I'm not sure if anyone besides the pure-souled competitors acknowledged the fact U13 Vegeta wasn't subject to Babidi's mind control, because it is kind of a big deal considering U3 Bardock gets corrupted while the Crown Prince of Brattiness has probably committed the same, if not worse crimes and unchallenged.

TheMailMan was saying:
In an unrelated note, they are going to die THIS SECOND unless Vegeta immediately runs out of juice. Kakarot needs to lock in and go Ozaru SS2 if he wants to tank even one attack. For that matter, Raditz should also use his lamps to go mystic Ozaru (which… hopefully would do… something?)

On the subject of the Oozaru multiplier, still off topic but I guess it's okay since you're talking about it, but Vegeta isn't the only source on it being a 10x increase. As big of a DB fan as you are, I'm sure you're aware of the daizenshuu which also reinforces it being a 10x increase (or at least was back when multipliers were more taken into consideration). Toriyama has stated the daizenshuu are canon, so you have two pieces of evidence. The manga and supplementary material.

ShadyDoorags was saying: You have this really nasty habit of attacking your audience.
Seriously, I'm the attacker there? You should re-read some comments on the page, starting by the very first.

We have an outstanding level of tolerance in moderation. I'm happy with that. I also have been on internet forums since decades and I can take much. But remember that many reader's attitude did really, and it's not a lie, turn away several professionnal cartoonists out of the project. That's how bad it is.
I tell them - and myself - to focus on the good comments, as there are many. Most DBM readers are awesome. I thank them for that. This is also the main reason for doing conventions: people face to face are soooo much nicer than on the internet.

I am guilty of lots of sarcasm in my answers, i try to work on that. I've even been impolite, sure, it happens in 16 years. But i don't think it's even close to 1% of what i've been receiving on my end.

WukongTheMighty was saying: to remind everyone that unless something changed, 100% Freeza in DBM has a PL of 530,000.
This is why in the Jaykal special everyone had PLs in the hundred thousands and was considered enough to beat Cold.That is very untrue. You're basing yourself on an article i wrote on my DBM website several years before DBM existed. It was based on a french translation error. So of course I don't use it on DBM, and my official stand on Freeza's PL is "x2 per transformation", if you wanna know:
first form is 530,000.
"bull" form is a million (as stated in the manga).
"alien" form is 2, final is 4, "100%" is 8 millions.
Which i'm sure is different from many powerlevel lists and i absolutely don't care.

The reasons the Jaykals believe they are stronger than Frost demons is because they don't know of transformations. Also, being the past, the Demons level is slightly lower.

Of course, because of sarcasm, I kept my article unchanged and wrote on it that I called Toriyama on the phone and he agreed with Freeza max being 530K. But it's a joke.... just saiyan'.

WukongTheMighty was saying: You mean details that Salagir changes because he doesn't like them? Like, I dunno, multipliers? Fusion rules?
I'm sure you can point out a very non-manga source with explanations of multipliers and fusions rules. My only source being the manga, yes, i do what i want with them, as long as it's consistent.

I'm amazed at how mad people can become when i refuse the oozaru x10 when the only source for this in the manga is Vegeta saying "Know this! Our power increase tenfold in oozaru!". The same Vegeta who stated so many wrong things, like being number one in the universe, whose arrogence knows no limit, and who likes to brag.
Arguing this sentence is literaly "Know this! Our PL on the scouter is tenfold in oozaru!" is logical and credible, but not obligatory. It could also simply mean "I'm way way stronger now". Which is true, because if you look at Namek's PLs and battles, a mere 25% more in PL means a flowless victory.
Arguing, on the other hand, that Vegeta oozaru is thus 180,000, meaning he could literally take on the whole Ginyu gang, is quite the shocker for me. Don't you think that information would change everything on his relation with Kiwi, Dodoria, Zarbon, and the whole Ginyu gang, if they knew very well that, anytime, Vegeta can summon a light ball and one-shot them all? That ONLY Freeza could take him?
It's fun to play with maths based on ONE brag word, but in my stupid author little opinion, it's more fun to work on the general consistency of the whole story and characters.

WukongTheMighty was saying: King Cold's inexplicable ability to transform is because a French Guidebook says that he has "All the powers of his sons" I never read that.
Now, imaginating that Cold got the same power as his sons... i don't know... doesn't seem crazy.

WukongTheMighty was saying: Hell, even Broly's extreme wank is because the same guidebook says "Even Gogeta 2 (Super Saiyan 2) or Goku 4 (Super Saiyan 4)" wouldn't be a match for him.
As i told before, in order to make fights a little different, I changed some extremes things on some characters. DBM Broly in invulnerable. DBM Buu got all possible magic powers you can imagine. DBM Vegetto is the absolute energy reservoir (for limited time) that can break anything. Hildegard got the perfect protection. Gast can... cancel all these.
These are choices I did, knowing perfectly they don't follow the usual DBZ setting which is only about power levels.
If you ask me my DBZ-movie-canon Broly PL? It's much less than SSJ2. On the 3 movies he is in, he is beaten by a few SSJ1s, every time...
Why invulnerability and increase in power for Broly? That's not because of some french source. It's because the 2 are useful for the story (without increase, Broly would be an unvulnerable punch bag for half the cast). Also because it fits Broly. If you look at the movies, right before Broly we have the Cyborgs. The final boss, which i call Smurf-Blanka, is having exactly the same fight as Broly: totally unscratched by anyone, until ONE final punch one-shots him.
So why Broly? Because the cyborg got no charisma, and was born two minutes ago. Whereas Broly was the take on the Legendary Saiyan which was hinted before. He is a magnificent total berserk. He embodies all the evil of Saiyans (reminder: Saiyans are evil). He is perfect for the role.
It's not a french person who wrote "his power is maximum".
I'm not really a Broly fanboy. The entire fanbase is. It's ok. It's ok to like seeing the Juggenaut in action.

Well giving criticism is within the rules but I don't think anyone is talking about the occasional constructive criticism. There are some people who comment every page or multiple times per page and have hundreds of comments that are mostly all negative. Of course they're free to do that until the very last page of the comic. It's just pointing out the difference since they sound angrier and giving the story more attention than most fans for any fan comic out there.

well, Raditz could say the elder kai forced them and grovel to vegeta on mercy while blaming his brothers lack of sanity in the fusion wince kakkarot being fused knows Raditz's plans, though Vegeta being like Freeza will not let this slide, unless Kakkarot can kill the weakened Vegeta since he is currently more sturdy, and if Raditz dies Vegeta will have to worry about a forever pissed Kakkarot training harder to murder him, maybe the Emperor should forgive his vassal for hindsight's sake, I wanted to see the 2 peasant brothers topple the nobility, oh well, would had been cool if Bardock left with them since he will die in his universe once we get to that endless swarm of death

i think one of the interesting things with u16 is how its existence is basically the antithesis of Dragon Ball. its stories are darker and more complicated, more about the heroes' internal strifes than the external conflicts they grow to match, its philosophy more concerned with moral codes and right and wrong--all because Vegetto breaks the themes of Dragon Ball.

Dragon Ball is all about self improvement--its one and only rule being "There is always someone out there stronger than you." this is the guardrails that keep the universe in check. uncomplicated. Goku doesn't have to be a paragon of justice in that kind of world, he just needs to chase that urge to become better than he was the day before and that will usually lead him down the right path. usually, this means "heroic" actions are rewarded as more "villainous" one tend to bog down the individual with ego, pride, insecurity, etc. it's why Vegeta is cursed to be second fiddle: no matter how much he improves, he will never be as pure hearted as Son Goku in the chase for self improvement, because he will always have an iota of pride and superiority in him.

we can even say that's why it mocks the superhero genre semi-frequently in-universe (Ginyu Force, Great Saiyaman, Gammas, Jaco, etc.), because the philosophy of the universe scoffs at the self-important idea of knowing for a fact what is morally just and what is morally unjust, because the only thing you can do that is right is improve oneself.

so it's pretty funny that Vegetto and Co. are portrayed as space cops keeping order in the universe by the decree of incompetent Kais. this is something that Dragon Ball would make fun of--but in u16, it can't. because how is Vegetto supposed to aim to improve when he's the strongest there is?

there is no one out there stronger than Vegetto. he doesn't train everyday in gravity chambers and take his body to its limit, using a senzu to heal all wounds and start again tomorrow--no, he stands around with all the strength he will ever have and eats senzus in bulk because his parasitic power needs to feed off of his unnatural, magical body at rates no regular meal can match (an utter perversion of the saiyan appetite). there is nothing that he can improve in terms of his passion, his purpose. if anyone defeats him, it's not because they bested him--it's because they cheated. it's because they do not, at any level, engage with what is considered fair in this universe. this is a FACT. so then, the idea of someone becoming stronger than Vegetto isn't an exciting idea that pushes him to improve, it's a horrifying vision of a dystopia where the universe is done for. it's not about the passion of battle and chasing a better version of you. the better version of you is here, and his passion of battle turned out to a disgusting taste for crushing others. these people don't aim to be stronger for themselves, they aim to be stronger to stop one another.

that means the focus of the u16 dragon team isn't growing stronger and better, it's dealing with moral dilemmas of right and wrong, utilitarian responsibilities versus deontological ethics. when you are the strongest in the universe, your actions are all only accountable to yourselves, so you need to constantly self-manage. and in a world where accountability can be wished away, it can create a person who has no innate sense of right and wrong. so they need to commit an act that the universe sees as against its nature: create an order of right and wrong.

ironically, the only person in this universe who feels like a Dragon Ball character is Bra. she's the only one aiming to get stronger, to always be training, and to surpass herself. but because of vegetto's poisoning of the universe by his existence, this is seen as a threat and is discouraged at every turn. vegetto doesn't encourage his daughter to become stronger, he punishes her. if he hadn't, if he had always told her that she will grow to be stronger than him if she worked hard and pushed her in that direction, odds are she would've become far more disciplined and much more like the Son family she likes to attach herself to. yet thanks to vegetto's poisoning, he created a being that twisted the original philosophy of Dragon Ball from an optimistic one into a pessimistic one.

"There's always someone out there stronger than you."

in u18, this is a statement that pushes our warriors forward. in u16, this is a statement that holds them back. son bra is the confused child that is born out of that twisting. a character with all of Son Goku's lust for battle, but with none of the challenge to match it. with all of Gohan's rage, but with none of the hesitation to commit violence. with all of Goten and Trunks' childish brattiness, but with none of the innocent purity. with all of Vegeta's insecurity of being second-best, but with none of the pride. with all of Vegetto's power, but with none of the good will he had from saving the universe.

vegetto broke Dragon Ball, and his daughter has to suffer because of it.

I think that Broly is going to win like I'm pretty sure that Vegetto is cooked there is no way that he is winning this Broly is just too strong and Vegetto is toast.

ss3 Vegeta doing so well does lend credence to this not being real.
Goku in Super Saiyan 3 is like maybe a little weaker than base dbz era Vegito.
Ultimate Kakaditz should dismantle Vegeta nodiff.

Shouldn't old kai really try to explain how evil XXI is to the organizers and just get him sent home? Is that not an option?

yeah this is 100% in the mind of old kaioshin. There's no way most of these fighters would be intimidated or impressed by this fighter.

unless old kai was wrong, he should as it was stated by old kai in the manga that a gohan and goku fusion should be able to go ssj.

https://cdn.dbsmanga.com/file/mangap/1063/20308000/1.jpg

so, unless old kai was mistaken about fusion, his ritual he got from the witch or some other thing, they should be able to go ssj.

This should be very interesting. I'm all ears, "Emperor Vegeta".

I'm thinking this is just a what if scenario in his head. I'm enjoying the ride though.

Remember, Goku had a lifetime of specialized training, by the time he faced Raditz, Raditz was way beyond him mostly because of raw power. An argument can be made that Raditz has more potential than Goku

rainman was saying: I've been waiting to see more Elder Kai and Raditz, Mystic Raditz might be one of the things I've most been looking forward to. Elder Kai's putting some kinda magic blockage in his brain, maybe it'll keep Raditz from hurting innocents? He's definitely gonna have his sights on Vegeta and Nappa, should be a fun match to watch.

I actually think Elder Kai might be using Raditz as a pawn against XXI. But I can also see Vegeta showing up and getting in the way of the plan (once again Vegeta helping the main villain except this time not intentionally) so we get to see Mystic Raditz vs SSJ3 Vegeta (U13 Vegeta) and Vegeta gets clobbered most likely but then Raditz is not able to deal with XXI (not that he had much chance given what a sneaky and crafty magician XXI is especially if U13 Vegeta wore him down. And I do think XXI will respond to Elder Kai, because we know now Elder Kai is plotting to destroy XXI and XXI must surely know this by now and what will really play into XXI's hands is Vegetto's insanity. After all, how can you worry about XXI when Vegetto will be a more immediate danger? This means U9 Fighters and U13 Raditz will have to face XXI themselves, but then what could make things even spicier is U8 might make a b-line for the Dragon Balls and they (Frieza, Cooler and Ginyu) end up fighting XXI.

With new generations there will be new hope.
Awesome, touching moment!

But yeah.. who taught Trunks to fly? He just learned on his own? Now that's potential.

TabletopJunk was saying: ZenBuu was saying: Chermb was saying: ZenBuu was saying: WukongTheMighty was saying: >Roshi wins, does cool Akira Motorbike pose, expects the genocidal eternal teenager to uphold the conditions he laid for his victory, and gets turned to dust (His Sunglasses TANKED that)
His sunglasses fell off on page 2351, same as his hat one page prior. We even got an extra panel for that...

And Roshi was in front of him when he got blasted. The sunglasses and his hat were still on the race track, in the opposite direction. But of course it's easier to complain about everything, without checking the facts first. ;P

But of course, it's easier to be smug and petty by focusing on one part of what someone said, rather than responding to message in it's entirety. ;P
And what does your comment add here again? Nothing... you only want to provoke, congrats! ;P

The rest of the comment didn't really interest me, because all of this broken record was said 1000 times already during this special.

TabletopJunk was saying: ZenBuu was saying: WukongTheMighty was saying: >Roshi wins, does cool Akira Motorbike pose, expects the genocidal eternal teenager to uphold the conditions he laid for his victory, and gets turned to dust (His Sunglasses TANKED that)
His sunglasses fell off on page 2351, same as his hat one page prior. We even got an extra panel for that...

And Roshi was in front of him when he got blasted. The sunglasses and his hat were still on the race track, in the opposite direction. But of course it's easier to complain about everything, without checking the facts first. ;P

Wow, that changes everything!! You really got him on that throwaway joke.
Wow, your comment changes everything too!! You really got me with that throwaway comment. Do we get back onto topic or are we only provoking each other now? Don't you have something of value to add? :)

Sodapopinski was saying: So much justification of bad behavior in here. Forget "free products should be criticized too," and other such nonsense... At the end of the day, the artists and writers are people too. You're not criticizing some mega corporation, you're going straight up to the artist & writer and telling them their work sucks.

Have some basic human decency and maybe DON'T go straight up to creators and tell them every time you think their work is subpar. It's unnecessarily nasty. Some of y'all forgot the lessons you learned in kindergarten and it shows.
Shhht, you can't say that! You can't just go ahead and criticise all the criticism, doesn't matter how harsh it is! This comic is free to read, but that doesn't protect it from getting trashed to no end. People are obviously allowed to be disrespectful and insulting to the artist and writer. There is no thin line that can be crossed while "constructively" criticizing this comic. It's totally fine to just call the writing trash and go ahead. And everyone who doesn't agree with that is no real fan of DB and has no clue about it at all. (end of sarcasm)

The extreme defensiveness over what was clearly a joke about sunglasses was clearly overtly hostile, no matter how you try to dress up your tone. If you’re concerned about moderating the tone of the comment section, you’d do well not to add to the toxicity by posting knee-jerk reactions like this, it isn’t, and seemingly hasn’t, helped foster positive discussion.
I'll admit that I got a little bit carried away towards the end of this special chapter. Maybe I wanted to give back the taste of the own medicine for a bit. But basically you are correct.

Either way, I can assure you that I'm still being pretty nice for a mod. I let a lot of stuff slide. And I actually hold back on a lot of thoughts I would love to comment, but today I was just fed up with all of this negativity. My apologies for being overly sarcastic for once. My emotions kinda got the better of me.

I know other mods who would act way more harsh than me in this regard. Some of them would just nuke this whole comment section without a second thought. At the moment I'm moderating this entire comment section on my own, nobody wants to do the dirty work and trust me...if some of y'all would try moderating this section for like a week, most of you would probably quit after like 3 days.

The toxicity here can be extreme sometimes and to be honest all of the other comments sections aren't like the English one in this regard. Being a mod is a very unthankful "job". As soon as you only remind people of some basic rules (that should be a no brainer in a normal discussion) you get replies with insults on a regular basis, because apparently you are just "power tripping" and want to ruin the fun for everybody here.

So much justification of bad behavior in here. Forget "free products should be criticized too," and other such nonsense... At the end of the day, the artists and writers are people too. You're not criticizing some mega corporation, you're going straight up to the artist & writer and telling them their work sucks.

Have some basic human decency and maybe DON'T go straight up to creators and tell them every time you think their work is subpar. It's unnecessarily nasty. Some of y'all forgot the lessons you learned in kindergarten and it shows.

Man, guys, come on, there's a fine line between constructive critcism and being blatantly rude, and that line was blurred so many times throughout the course of this chapter. This is the first time that I have felt somewhat disgusted towards some of the members of this fanbase (not the majority).

Please be better, and if not for other people, for yourselves.

Like, even the feet guy during the pages with Baba was at least respectful.

Dear god, as soon as Gohan appears on the screen, all the negative comments start again...I'm so glad we are nearly done with this special. Reading most comments during this special was super awful and no fun anymore.

What's the point in continuing? My dude, who the hell are you, a random earthing masquerading as Gohan? You really couldn't be bothered to hide Bulma and Trunks and rush back to the city to save Roshi? Maybe sneak attack 17 by throwing a defiant punch like you did with Dodoria before escaping? Nothing? Then his death is on you, cause apparently you lost whatever backbone you had in the previous sagas.

sigh I get it that the writers want to add moments of hopelessness for Gohan, but again, even in hopeless situations he would still fight, because he knew that's what Goku and Piccolo would do. Maybe not to the death like them, but he'd still defy the Androids one way or another before retreating. That moment would solidify his course of becoming the adult Gohan we see in Future Trunks special, who had far more of a positive outlook that this teenage version, even though he's living a nightmare.

This was a hilarious chapter. This Gohan is a total bum.

I was hoping #18 would stop #17 from killing Master Rochi just to mock him forever for losing to a old geiser. Apparently that's not the case.

I dont understand why this simple fact about Gohan is ignored by a lot of people though: Gohan isn't getting stronger by a lot because he simply doesn't have the right tools to train, and no sparring partner.

Think about this for a moment:

When Goku trained as a kid, he trained alongside krillin
When Goku trained as a teenager, he trained at Kami's place in the room of spirit and time, and he trained with Mr Popo (who was "stronger" than him at the time)
Goku as an adult trained on King Kai's planet, under 10x gravity and was taught new techniques
Goku on the way to namek trained under 100x gravity
In preparation for the androids, Goku trained with Piccolo as a sparring partner
Goku was the one to figure out that he needed to "master" the SSJ transformation before ANY of the others did

Piccolo used his multi-form technique to create training partners. He also had meditation techniques to train
In U18 he trained with Goku for the androids

Vegeta grew up training in 10x gravity, had tons of advanced mechanical equipment, and his own saibamen fodder to train with
Vegeta also understood the power of the zenkai boosts
Vegeta trained in the gravity machine in preparation for the androids (and also to surpass goku and future trunks)


Looking at the rest of the warriors; Tien probably trained with Chiaozu, and even Master Roshi had a sparring partner in his younger years. Krillin trained with Goku as a kid, and as an adult he focused mostly on specialised training for his techniques (Kienzan, the Kamehameha control etc). The only one who had no real training gear or sparring partner was Yamcha, and we know he's the weakest of the Z warriors.


Anyway, to summarise; Gohan has a master in Roshi when it comes to techniques and some ki control. But he has zero knowledge on saiyan physiology. He has no guidance on the Super Saiyan state. He also the least amount of battle experience out of EVERYONE in the series at this point. He has NO equipment to properly train him. He also has no way to find the dragonballs because nobody know where the Namekians went to. Simply put: Gohan is alone in everything that matters when it comes down to survival. Hell, at this point he never even visited the Lookout so he doesnt even know how to go there, and Mr Popo might not even know how to find him.

Gohan at this point only has 2 useful training options: the Lookout (safety, assuming the magic shielding the place from technology is still in effect, and hyperbolic time chamber), and a training device that Bulma could build.. which is something she might not even be able to do considering her dad built the one used in the main timeline.

Gohan losing hope here is not that strange to read. Obviously its not why he lost, but he is what, 9 years old here, and he just lost literally everyone he loves save for his mother, and he THOUGHT his dad could help him, and that lifeline just got cut in front of him. Kid is depressed and nobody can blame him.

WukongTheMighty was saying: Misinterpreting the themes and ideas of Dragonball seems to be the going standard for most fanworks nowadays, so making the future super edgy and nihilistic even though it should be characters holding on to hope no matter what is about par for the course.

Trunks in "History of Trunks" wasnt exactly hopeful either. He fought because he had to, because there was noone else. But at no point was he ever even shown to display the confidence things would turn out right, UNTIL the time machine was made. yes, THATS when suddenly he had hope again; because he had a reason to be hopeful. Before that, he didn't have it. What reason does Gohan currently have to have any hope? If Gohan had a "oh well, things will be alright" attitude after everyone more powerful than him just dying left and right, THAT would be misrepresentative of the series. There was always someone who inspired hope when things seemed hopeless (aka Goku returning to fight the saiyans and Freeza), or a new idea (mastering the SSJ state). Gohan will have hope when he is given a reason, which I assume will happen soon.


Seriously, a lot of people here have never tried their hand at proper writing or analyzing proper writing and it is showing hard sometimes.

@Kururun [quote]What's the difference between Goku training in heaven and coming back to life with Dragon Balls to defeat the Saiyans, and Goku (or Z team) training in heaven and coming back to life with Dragon Balls to defeat the Cyborgs?
Answer: None

WukongTheMighty was saying: Jesus Christ. This is just getting silly at this point.Kururun was saying: It's not even that, it's trying to establish some hard rules about the Dragon Ball universe, at the expanse of the characters. supersaiyan2kakarot was saying: Seems a little hypocritical for baba to say that, when she used Grandpa Gohan(who was dead) to fight for her in her tournament back in dragon ball.
Guys, you have to understand what i'm working with, here. "Future" timeline is a big plothole for a shonen manga. In the "present" timeline, a little training make half of the cast stronger by far than the cyborgs. I can't do much about that, except play the "hope" storyline.
Also indeed, the heroes could go to Namek, teleport from heaven to earth with or without permission (maybe?), spend 24h, teach them fusion, so many very simple ways to beat the cyborgs! Well, we're trying to cover this one at least.

Also, you can't compare Baba making little tournaments and implicating yourself in the destiny of a whole planet.

Osha was saying: Such weird reasoning in a multiverse where Bojack happened in a bunch of places, honestly.
For all I know, Bojack did less crimes than the Cyborgs.

Grash was saying: 1. Gohan did not give up after losing goku to raditz
2. Gohan did not give up after watching all the namekiens die
3. Gohan ALMOST gave up after losing goku to cell but still pulled through
4. Gohan DID NOT give up against super boo after all his friends and the whole earth got eaten
1. Goku was coming back from the DBs, it was obvious and stated.
2. Give up on what? The dragon balls were still here.
3. Dragon balls are there.
4. Easy access to dragon balls.
Anyway, you can't compare (and that's true for the 3 lasts points) being in the middle of a situation and being stranded alone for years on a world where genocide occurs daily.

Your nickel was saying: You'd think Yemma would make an exception here like in the Buu arc, since he didn't want to deal with billions of humans getting killed
I like this one. Cyborgs work "slowly" and i guess it doesn't change much in the universal number of deaths.

saber16 was saying: Like when King Kai specifically trained a dead Goku in order to save Earth from the Saiyans? Or when a dead Piccolo gave King Kai the idea to have him brought back to bring back Kami and give them more wishes? Or when King Kai trained Tien and the others so they would be stronger to protect Earth? Or all the times the heroes wished for those killed to be brought back to life?
As you state, all these have impact when said people are alive again.
If Dragon Balls were used in "future" timeline, or after Bojack special, heroes would have been permitted to crush cyborgs and Bojack with their new heaven-acquired powers.

ap2007 was saying: The boy has no reason to live , no disrespect to roshi, trunks ,bulma and whoever else ...
This Gohan isn't close yet to Bulma and Trunks at this point. This isn't stated here indeed, but he didn't see them in years. He is truly alone with an old man.
Chichi also is dead. Not said too, it seemed obvious to me, but maybe i was wrong.

The Mighty Hyena was saying: Some of these sidestories have no place other than to waste our collective time. I am sorry to the artist
No you're not. You're pooping on work done by non-paid amateurs on their free time given to you for free.
Guys, you should re-read yourself twice when you post, because nobody on this site deserve any of these angry comments.
So, please disagree and criticize with less contempt. You are also free to not read if what we do is so lame.

The Mighty Hyena was saying: a decent U9 special NOT SET UP IN DRAGON BALL ERA, or maybe a follow up to the EXCELLENT U13 or U7 Gast?
U9: sorry, we'll do them in order, so you'll have some more DB-era. Being drawn now.
U13: on a break, Ouv helps on other things, but not forgotten, far from it.
U7: very advanced, long, and with a first part ready to be released. When? Don't know yet.

I can't resist.

Two diabolical creatures suddenly appeared on a small island at the south and everyone tried to fight them. They tried everything, in vain. Big Green had perished. Vegetuh, Yamcha, Tenshin, and Clearin; they had survived. Those two android plunged the world into a state of terror. This is the story of two destinies like no other.

Indeed, one of the best fights in all of DBM so far, of course it turns out that they would still be zero match for Zen Buu.

rainman was saying: At the end of the day almost any special would be better than months of radio silence as Asura draws the latest main chapters.

Asura is not any better than the special chapter artists, in fact i'd say he's worse. He hasnt been paying attention to the fundementals of drawing (which is ultimatly what matters most) and the drawings themselves suffer for it. Show the special chapter artists more love and be more critical on Asura, for having the role of "the main artist" he does a subpar job at it if you ask me and the only reason why i don't complain more about it is because of the free nature of dbm.

And that's the biggest problem with most readers. The lack of patience. Just be grateful you get at least something! No need to be overly sarcastic about it all the time, "how bad all these specials" are. Many people still don't seem to understand how much time it takes to even draw a single page. If you want top notch quality (like from Asura) you have to wait for it. And because of comments like these, many artists don't even want to start drawing a special chapter, when they see how much people shit on their free work. Or we get a mess like the first U9 special. I can only repeat it, nobody pays anything to read this here, it's all for free, just to entertain you. I would understand complaints, when you spend money on this here. But you don't, so just take what you get, simple as that.

Don't forget the classic where we watch Future Trunks sign up for the tournament. And then, its iconic sequel, where he... reacts to the tournament. A real pair of back-to-back bangers, those chapters.

Who's here after the Mystic Goku vs Mystic Vegeta Fight chapter finally finished?

rainman was saying: WukongTheMighty was saying: What a waste of... time.

Yamcha getting some much needed limelight is never a waste of time, I'm happy we got to see him be the hero this time around.



Lego Zeppeli was saying: Ah yes, i remember the time when Son Bra said her Daddy was the unbeatable almighty God, then he proceeded to be humiliated by XXI, Raichi, Gas and Boo, then fear that his unfused counterparts might catch up to him soon.

Now here we are after Vegetto was humiliated for the 7th time on the tournament this time by I´K´L who now joins the group of people who throwed Vegetto´s reputation on the mud. :D

Yup, not to mention the organizers have ignored all of his requests for a side-tournament inspired by Zen Buu, and his bottomless stomachs appetite has been growing with no Senzus left. I think Vegetto's snap is reaaaaaaaal close.

Oh please, it is a waste of time because Yamcha isn't actually an important character here.
At all.
The only reason all of this happened was because a cheque that was written years and years ago needed to be cashed in. (Yamcha's boast). But at the end of the day, what did Yamcha do? Nothing interesting or new. He did as follows...
— Dodge some attacks.
— Use Wolf Fang Fist.
— Use Spirit Ball.
— Fight ends.
This would be like if we had a fight for goku that started with him dodging some attacks, pivoted into him using Meteor Combination, and then he finished with a Kamehameha.
It's not... exactly interesting or new. Yamcha just did the two "Yamcha things" and then the fight instantly wrapped up.
And it wasn't like there wasn't opportunity for him to show off something new. But no, it was the barest of minimums and now Yamcha has signed his cheque of relevancy forevermore.

I get that the fight can't go on forever because we're limited by release, but couldn't we have seen something actually new? Or maybe an upgrade on what he normally uses? It's been decades of training and honing his skills for him! 27 years of extra training from when the human Yamcha basically retired, and all Android Yamcha can do is the same stuff but vaguely more powerful?!

Oh, I thought the premise would be a lot more interesting than this. Damn shame. We already know almost exactly what happens!

Buckle up boys, it's time for another "X kills the main cast" Chapter!

What a waste of... time.

Ah yes, i remember the time when Son Bra said her Daddy was the unbeatable almighty God, then he proceeded to be humiliated by XXI, Raichi, Gas and Boo, then fear that his unfused counterparts might catch up to him soon.

Now here we are after Vegetto was humiliated for the 7th time on the tournament this time by I´K´L who now joins the group of people who throwed Vegetto´s reputation on the mud. :D

Many thanks to the colour team!!!!!

--"different version of Cell with DNA from Cooler and the humans could've been attempted by Gero?"

Lucas was saying: Were we ever told the story of how the humans from universe 9 came in contact with Sauza and possibly Cooler? I don't recall reading any specials about that, but it'd be super interesting to see.

We haven't seen too much from Universe 9, yet. Give it time; I'm sure they'll get to it eventually.

Yes, Phipsil.
Yes, it was my idea.
No, I don't feel any shame. xD

Ashanark was saying: After 10 years, this is my last post on DBM. Stouty and I are both leaving, since we’re frustrated with the direction the story’s taken. DBM always had its ups and downs but the infatuation with Bra has gotten too strong for me to put up with. Since DBM is a free comic, leaving is the only way I can protest, and anyway I don’t like coming back to complain again and again. I wish Salagir and other team members best of luck.

Anyway, thanks for the 10 years!

Take care! Though I'm not a moderator, I've also been in and out of this place since 2009ish. I was even considered for a voice acting roll as Vegeta when the fans and commenters were putting together a rough animation for DBM.


I do think it's better to see this plot thread to an end before I jump ship though. I still think there are underlying things that are yet to be revealed regarding this situation and how unusual everyone is acting. The only thing that may bother me is how many "specials" might be in between now and later. To wait through 3 entire specials just to see Vegetto turned into a bad guy and Bra forgiven so easily after 3 years of build up is a bit disheartening. I'm sure there's going to be a "gotcha" moment where this isn't the case. Vegetto, Bra, and the others are being manipulated by an outside force....

That's it.. it's I'K'L!!!!!!! The many angled one!!!!! I'K'L has been born anew to wreak havoc on this tournament and the many universes involved. I'K'L sees not a challenge, but simple nourishment for it's infinite appetite. I'K'L is born therefore it consumes leaving nothing but madness in it's wake. I'K'L's presence has rotted their minds!! If you've ever even thought of I'K'L you have already fallen victim. Your mind overloaded with the unknown terrors that lie ahead. Beware, I'K'L is now breaking the 4th wall and is already starting to drive the comment section to madness!!!!

"We'll be the only heroes"


....I'm sorry. What now?


Still here Zen Boo was saying: No way Yamcha is dead. Calling it that he reappears to save 18 in a few pages and then tries to pick her up again.

pretty sure that vision Bardock had about Yamcha saying "you beat the others, but not me. Does that make me the strongest in the universe" will happen in this chapter. Seems to fit the story.