DB Multiverse
Member page of AC'97
AC'97
20 June 2020
CrystalMV was saying:
AmbiguousMouse was saying: I don't think I agree with your reasoning. Between differing development in twenty years since then and being a fusion, U16 Vegetto being an abusive prick doesn't reflect on U18 Vegeta. That'd be like criticizing U12/Future Trunks for the fact that our timeline's Gotenks is annoying.
AC'97 was saying: Yeah, pretty much. She's not defending Vegeta for going Majin, exactly, either. It was more like her going "come on, REALLY?! Even he didn't sink that low, my father, at one of his lowest points!"
She is most assuredly not thinking along the lines of "come on, Vegito is better than you!" Note how she said "my dad," not "our dads," even BEFORE she heard about anything.
U18 Vegeta has no responsibility for what U16 Vegito has done, because they're different people beyond a certain point (especially considering fusion), they've lived different lives, and Vegito is their own person.
No, she didn't say "my dad", she just said "dad", because back then, U16 Vegeta and U18 Vegeta were the same person. And by saying "dad", she does mean "our dad", because why would U16 Bra care that some stranger from another dimension disobeyed Babidi?
So by giving credit to "dad", she gave recognition to both of their dads, completely oblivious of what one of them did. It's more like "even our dad didn't sink that low", without realizing that "your dad" version of "our dad" was the one who influenced U16 Bra to sink that low.
Nfan8762 was saying: I love how U18 Bra didn't try to sympathize with her counterpart and basically said "Don't know, don't care, suck it up."
I would possibly like it as well, had U18 Bra not brought up "dad didn't obey Babidi". Now it's just hypocritical because it's basically "I will give dad credit for resisting Babidi's control, but I will not give him credit for abusing you and making you more susceptible to Babidi".
AC'97 was saying: Yeah, pretty much. She's not defending Vegeta for going Majin, exactly, either. It was more like her going "come on, REALLY?! Even he didn't sink that low, my father, at one of his lowest points!"
She is most assuredly not thinking along the lines of "come on, Vegito is better than you!" Note how she said "my dad," not "our dads," even BEFORE she heard about anything.
U18 Vegeta has no responsibility for what U16 Vegito has done, because they're different people beyond a certain point (especially considering fusion), they've lived different lives, and Vegito is their own person.
No, she didn't say "my dad", she just said "dad", because back then, U16 Vegeta and U18 Vegeta were the same person. And by saying "dad", she does mean "our dad", because why would U16 Bra care that some stranger from another dimension disobeyed Babidi?
So by giving credit to "dad", she gave recognition to both of their dads, completely oblivious of what one of them did. It's more like "even our dad didn't sink that low", without realizing that "your dad" version of "our dad" was the one who influenced U16 Bra to sink that low.
Nfan8762 was saying: I love how U18 Bra didn't try to sympathize with her counterpart and basically said "Don't know, don't care, suck it up."
I would possibly like it as well, had U18 Bra not brought up "dad didn't obey Babidi". Now it's just hypocritical because it's basically "I will give dad credit for resisting Babidi's control, but I will not give him credit for abusing you and making you more susceptible to Babidi".
I'll admit I misremembered, but do you think U18 Bra would call Vegito "Dad?" Either way, I think she'd be thinking of them as distinct individuals, and I guess we might have to agree to disagree, on what constitutes "hypocrisy."
I just think Vegito isn't really Vegeta (that is, highly reflective of his overall character). He's a toxic combination of Goku and Vegeta's worst qualities, exacerbated by years of frustration and unresolved issues. Vegeta, on his own in the Buu Saga, before any Babidi business happened, felt bad for (accidentally) hitting his own son in a sparring match. I'd argue he was a better parent before the character development he experienced in that Saga, than Vegito ever was, by the sound of things, and I'd be inclined to say the same would be true of Goku, that neither of them would do anything half as bad as what Vegito has done, based on their characters then.
Vegito? Less so, regarding qualms against hurting his children. One wonders if Vegito is significantly more evil overall than Buu Saga Vegeta, maybe even Cell Saga Vegeta. Is it Goku's fault, that he's more evil than the sum of his parts?
(I have a bit of an issue with constantly editing comments halp) 1 Replie(s)
AC'97
19 June 2020
Número Treinta was saying:
Shoutout to Invader_Jim for sponsoring this meme.
You memers are the underrated heroes, lol. Great entertainment value.
AmbiguousMouse was saying:
I don't think I agree with your reasoning. Between differing development in twenty years since then and being a fusion, U16 Vegetto being an abusive prick doesn't reflect on U18 Vegeta. That'd be like criticizing U12/Future Trunks for the fact that our timeline's Gotenks is annoying.
Yeah, pretty much. She's not defending Vegeta for going Majin, exactly, either. It was more like her going "come on, REALLY?! Even he didn't sink that low, my father, at one of his lowest points!"
She is most assuredly not thinking along the lines of "come on, Vegito is better than you!" Note how she said "my dad," not "our dads," even BEFORE she heard about anything.
U18 Vegeta has no responsibility for what U16 Vegito has done, because they're different people beyond a certain point (especially considering fusion), they've lived different lives, and Vegito is their own person. 1 Replie(s)
AC'97
19 June 2020
Argelios was saying:
Holy based, try to senzubean out of that one.
LOL, nice.
Xeno was saying:
Okay so, I love the reverse trolling we got here, but I keep feeling that each new page makes U18 Bra even more ooc XD
But since technically she's not DBGT's Bra and we've seen her in like, 3 pages, I guess she doesn't have a character to be out of, so that's ok. It still seems kinda forced though.
And yeah, the whole quoting thing got really weird on that 4th panel, maybe they could have turned that around better. Not (just) the translation, in general.
But since technically she's not DBGT's Bra and we've seen her in like, 3 pages, I guess she doesn't have a character to be out of, so that's ok. It still seems kinda forced though.
And yeah, the whole quoting thing got really weird on that 4th panel, maybe they could have turned that around better. Not (just) the translation, in general.
I mean, to be fair, did GT Bra even have much of a character? She was rather one-note, and I can't remember her having much in the way in character development. In fact, I think GT forgot about her entirely in the last arc, right? 1 Replie(s)
AC'97
19 June 2020
U18 Bra is the MVP.
She's having none of this sway her. She knows it doesn't excuse U16 Bra.
I would trust U18 Bra with power, because I'd trust she'd use it responsibly. 1 Replie(s)
DB Multiverse page 1744
She's having none of this sway her. She knows it doesn't excuse U16 Bra.
I would trust U18 Bra with power, because I'd trust she'd use it responsibly. 1 Replie(s)
AC'97
11 June 2020
CrystalMV was saying:
I know some people won't agree, but you don't have to be a saint to be immune to Babidi's spell (or, at worst, capable of resisting getting possessed).
Many spectators are not fighters either, yet Babidi did take control of them. So why not U18 Bra? At least she's much stronger. If he can control her, he should have sent her after Videl, instead of a bunch of weaklings that Videl was able to hold off. Especially when those spectators hanging around are more likely to arouse suspicion than U18 Bra going to the apartment of her own group.
Many spectators are not fighters either, yet Babidi did take control of them. So why not U18 Bra? At least she's much stronger. If he can control her, he should have sent her after Videl, instead of a bunch of weaklings that Videl was able to hold off. Especially when those spectators hanging around are more likely to arouse suspicion than U18 Bra going to the apartment of her own group.
Yeah, pretty much this. While you can't confirm U18 Bra would be able to resist, there'd no evidence she wouldn't be able to resist, either, so making a judgement based on it not being confirmed, her being able to is... strange, in my opinion.
Considering just how much courage it would take to taunt U16 Bra like this (courage is not the absence of fear, but rather the ability to overcome it, to act in spite of it), I'm willing to bet she has more willpower than one might think at first glance (both of her parents are very strong-willed, so if she inherited even half, which by appearances...).
I'm at least 95% sure she's not going to beg for her life, if U16 Bra's gonna painfully kill her after this verbal pwnage. She's more than intelligent enough to know she's quite probably signed her own death warrant, but she's doing it anyway. That does not hint at someone being weak-willed.
U16 Bra, far as we could tell, has put up little to no resistance to Babidi's spell, and I'd at least expect U18 Bra to try to resist it, because she'd likely be too disgusted with the concept of betraying everyone she cares about to go down without a fight, and/or being Babidi's slave. 1 Replie(s)
AC'97
11 June 2020
Moth was saying:
Then why didnt he do so to Vegeta when he rebelled? Or was Babidi dead at the time? I cant remember.
Babidi killed Spopovich personally (at least in the anime, Pui Pui killed Yamu, so I dunno if he killed them both in the manga; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=blFGZOcArYo ), but he didn't do it to anyone else, to my memory.
It's entirely possible that if you're powerful beyond a certain point, he can't really kill or meaningfully injure you that way. Especially considering basically all of their power was directly granted by Babidi's Majin Spell, and they'd otherwise be powerless humans if it weren't for him, which is not the case here.
I'll also note that he was left impotently begging Majin Cell to obey him, when he was trying to kill him, as opposed to anything else, in this very comic, as opposed to anything of substance, like instantly killing him, or even injuring him. ( https://www.dragonball-multiverse.com/en/page-1621.html )
If he was faced with Majin Bra betraying him, he'd be fucked, end of story.
I'm not convinced he can "instantly kill her," and even if he could, if she attacks him first (which would not be hard whatsoever), it's over, considering how Piccolo bisected him in canon. 1 Replie(s)
AC'97
10 June 2020
AmbiguousMouse was saying:
The Gohans were trying to talk up her good side, trying to appeal to her better nature, to see the good Bra buried deep inside by Babidi's magic. And U16 Bra doesn't care, because she's too busy reveling in how amazing she is when she cuts loose on the evil. The Gohans wanted her to see her good side was better, but that could never happen while she's riding the high of evil and feeling like the best she's ever been.
U18 Bra is actually coming at this from exactly the opposite direction. She doesn't give a fuck if there's some good buried in U16 Bra. She's tearing at the true source of her current elation - the thought that what she's become is impressive. U18 Bra is pointing out that U16 Bra, as a Majin, is as pathetic and worthless as ever, if not moreso. It's not an appeal for her to throw off Babidi's shackles, but a biting indictment of how stupid and useless she is for succumbing to something even Vegeta and Cell were able to overcome, that even her POWERLESS counterpart wasn't enough of a fuckup to fall victim to.
It's not about whether there's a good inside that could overcome her great evil, it's that her evil is not great at all. She is the worst and weakest and most pathetic of every fighter here, on the same level of every other useless Babidi slave that's been killed during this battle. Her newfound confidence, her belief that Babidi gave her everything she wanted, it was all a lie, because she's still just a scared girl crawling through her own shit.
Even now, even after she claims to no longer fear people's judgment, she still NEEDED the Grand Kai to recognize she was the strongest, she couldn't STAND being called worthless by her U18 counterpart. The very fact this conversation is happening - that U16 Bra didn't just say "whatever" and finish her and Gohan off from a distance with a blast - proves that Babidi didn't free her of anything. He just exploited how weak she is, and she let it work. That's what makes her worthless, and deep down she knows it.
U18 Bra is actually coming at this from exactly the opposite direction. She doesn't give a fuck if there's some good buried in U16 Bra. She's tearing at the true source of her current elation - the thought that what she's become is impressive. U18 Bra is pointing out that U16 Bra, as a Majin, is as pathetic and worthless as ever, if not moreso. It's not an appeal for her to throw off Babidi's shackles, but a biting indictment of how stupid and useless she is for succumbing to something even Vegeta and Cell were able to overcome, that even her POWERLESS counterpart wasn't enough of a fuckup to fall victim to.
It's not about whether there's a good inside that could overcome her great evil, it's that her evil is not great at all. She is the worst and weakest and most pathetic of every fighter here, on the same level of every other useless Babidi slave that's been killed during this battle. Her newfound confidence, her belief that Babidi gave her everything she wanted, it was all a lie, because she's still just a scared girl crawling through her own shit.
Even now, even after she claims to no longer fear people's judgment, she still NEEDED the Grand Kai to recognize she was the strongest, she couldn't STAND being called worthless by her U18 counterpart. The very fact this conversation is happening - that U16 Bra didn't just say "whatever" and finish her and Gohan off from a distance with a blast - proves that Babidi didn't free her of anything. He just exploited how weak she is, and she let it work. That's what makes her worthless, and deep down she knows it.
So much this.
For all she might desperately lie to herself, the truth is, she's still a slave to her own fragile ego.
AC'97
10 June 2020
Ultimate-Perfection was saying:
Olkard was saying: Oh shit, Bra did the infamous Vegeta thumb pose. She's definitely going to die.
Really good page though.
Bra did the infamous Vegeta thumb pose AND the infamous Bulma pointer finger scolding move.
Really good page though.
Bra did the infamous Vegeta thumb pose AND the infamous Bulma pointer finger scolding move.
Her parents would be so proud.
Really, I don't care what anyone says, these last two-three pages alone made U18 Bra more likable and cool than her U16 counterpart could ever dream of being.
AC'97
10 June 2020
(edited to remove MUI's comment text)
Excuse me, what?!
If you pay attention, that was ONE Cell Jr. they were fighting. That is, singular, not plural. Proof:
https://w...457.html#h_read
https://w...519.html#h_read
Where the heck did you get the idea that there was ever more than one going up against U9? You can even see the Cell Jr taking damage as it went on, thereby meaning it wasn't one-shot ala SSJ2 Gohan, and Cell even explicitly noted how weak it is on the latter page.
In any case, Videl's stamina crapped out after finishing one, so one could only imagine just how little time she'd last against Majin Bra, even if her power was enough to take one blow from her without at least being crippled (unlikely).
And since when is it established that anyone other than U13 Raditz is getting that Mystic Boost, let alone him having the time to boost all of them? U9 Videl explicitly refused to go along with Old Kai's perversion, on a page you linked, no less. He's explicitly also kinda focused on tuning his mind manipulation(?) on U13 Raditz. Can't Old Kai only boost like one person at a time to begin with, or am I forgetting something?
I mean, sure, they could theoretically kill Majin Bra, but they'd have to get a really good sneak attack in, and all of them combined are weaker than Mystic Gohan, who has failed at doing so before.
And I'm not sure Tien blowing Zen Buu up means much of anything, considering how little it ultimately amounted to. 1 Replie(s)
DB Multiverse page 1739
happywarrior99 was saying:
All those aforementioned Cell Jrs. did during that fight was getting one surprise hit on U9 Krillin and one surprise hit on U9 Tien when they caught them offguard.
The U9 fighters also have hax techniques that ignore powerlevels, like for example destructo disk, kikoho, mafuba.
In addition, the U9 fighters are getting the mistic power up from Old Kai, which would make them stronger than when they fought those Cell Jrs.
The U9 fighters also have hax techniques that ignore powerlevels, like for example destructo disk, kikoho, mafuba.
In addition, the U9 fighters are getting the mistic power up from Old Kai, which would make them stronger than when they fought those Cell Jrs.
Excuse me, what?!
If you pay attention, that was ONE Cell Jr. they were fighting. That is, singular, not plural. Proof:
https://w...457.html#h_read
https://w...519.html#h_read
Where the heck did you get the idea that there was ever more than one going up against U9? You can even see the Cell Jr taking damage as it went on, thereby meaning it wasn't one-shot ala SSJ2 Gohan, and Cell even explicitly noted how weak it is on the latter page.
In any case, Videl's stamina crapped out after finishing one, so one could only imagine just how little time she'd last against Majin Bra, even if her power was enough to take one blow from her without at least being crippled (unlikely).
And since when is it established that anyone other than U13 Raditz is getting that Mystic Boost, let alone him having the time to boost all of them? U9 Videl explicitly refused to go along with Old Kai's perversion, on a page you linked, no less. He's explicitly also kinda focused on tuning his mind manipulation(?) on U13 Raditz. Can't Old Kai only boost like one person at a time to begin with, or am I forgetting something?
I mean, sure, they could theoretically kill Majin Bra, but they'd have to get a really good sneak attack in, and all of them combined are weaker than Mystic Gohan, who has failed at doing so before.
And I'm not sure Tien blowing Zen Buu up means much of anything, considering how little it ultimately amounted to. 1 Replie(s)
AC'97
8 June 2020
Moth was saying:
Isnt it funny? All this time U18 Bra seemed to be treated like a shadow of her U16 self.
Now its clear that U16 is the shadow.
Isnt it funny? All this time U18 Bra seemed to be treated like a shadow of her U16 self.
Now its clear that U16 is the shadow.
That's actually true on a general level, isn't it?
U16, as a mere result of Vegito's mere existence, is ultimately a shadow of U18. Now, yes, Vegito and U16 Bra are MUCH more powerful than their U18 counterparts, as is, but you can see how the heart of Dragon Ball, that is, Goku, going down a darker path in the form of Vegito, has affected things. Vegito's Vegeta half never experienced the character growth that Vegeta did at the end of the Buu Saga, where he admitted to himself that Goku is better than him, in addition to the effects that being so much more powerful, without a rival, than everyone else in terms of power has on a being like him.
You could see this in how overall, U18 was actually protecting themselves from Zen Buu's meltdown, they were UNIFIED ( https://w...740.html#h_read ), whereas U16? They were falling apart at the seams. They split up, Vegito wasn't there, so they were in much more dire straits ( https://w...739.html#h_read ).
DBM Fan was saying:
In all this chaos is Goten still alive or did I miss something?
As far as we know, I think Goten's still alive. I think he was last seen here: https://w...618.html#h_read
If U18 Bra's still alive (well, for this instant, anyway), I wouldn't put it past U18 Goten to still be alive, after everything he's been through. I'd be more surprised if he died offscreen.
happywarrior99 was saying:
Friendly reminder that is it actually U18 Bra who is the slave to her own fears, because she is the one who is the distressed damsel both now and when Nappa took her hostage. Heck, U18 Bra is a slave to her own fears who can't even take care of herself, because she is forced to depend on the likes of Gohan to save her, because she is too afraid and too cowardly to try to becoming an independent badass capable of taking care of herself without having to depend on the likes of Gohan babysiting her.
U18 Bra not wanting to train is not an excuse for her being Nappa's hostage, because she could just have taken a gun, a bad ring laser, a taser, a club or something, and then use it against Nappa, but no, U18 Bra is too cowardly to try to do any of that. U18 Bra is the one who is the slave of her own fears.
U18 Bra not wanting to train is not an excuse for her being Nappa's hostage, because she could just have taken a gun, a bad ring laser, a taser, a club or something, and then use it against Nappa, but no, U18 Bra is too cowardly to try to do any of that. U18 Bra is the one who is the slave of her own fears.
What kind of a coward would do anything remotely like what U18 Bra is doing here? She knows FULL WELL that U16 Bra CAN and WILL kill her, and yet despite that, she did this.
What do you mean "just taken a gun?" Since when would any of that A: be in easy accessibility, or B: actually HELP? Am I forgetting something about the DBM setting? Why would a "club" do much of anything? A "taser?"
I will also note that to my memory, U18 Bra has not been shown pleading for her life, at least since the Majin Rebellion began. Not when she's been surrounded by Cell Juniors, not when she's been held hostage by Nappa, not when Cell said she'd be bait to motivate the Gohans... and I'm not exactly expecting U18 Bra to plead for mercy from U16 Bra now.
Can you mention a case of the opposite being true? Because I can't, for the life of me, think of one. Has she shown fear? Yes, but has she desperately pleaded for someone to save her, for the sake of her own skin? Not to my memory.
(And no, I don't quite count begging U18 Gohan to wake up as that, because that's more of a case of "please, you're one of the last ones left," not "please, don't kill me!")
ArcadeTheHedgehog was saying:
Boi, after everything that's happened today U18's Bra better start training like a real saiyan now.
I'd kinda hope for her to start training after this, honestly. She'd be doing it for the right reasons, too. I'd imagine she would NOT remotely be the type to prolong a fight for the sake of her ego, or for fun, in light of everything she's been through, either, if it's a fight to the death.
Language
What would have been wrong with Bra being overwhelmed by ACTUAL TEAMWORK, barely winning, killing her Gohan, seeing our Bra defend her Gohan so he doesn't die, then having her being too weak to finish off Bra realizing she just killed her own brother. And seeing her alternate self protecting her Gohan be the trigger that causes her to have a mental breakdown and pass out?
That way it's a double win: Bra's power is displayed realisticly: she's so strong she wins fair and square against a well timed group attack of some of the strongest beings in the universe. Yet she only barely wins because those guys are strong and use excellent teamwork to make up for their lack of power. Bra doesn't use senzu beans and establishes herself as a badass figher for actually wining and the heroes establish themselves as badasses for nearly defeating the ssj2 daughter of the strongest being in existence, and their care for each other (Bra protecting her Gohan) causing Bra to have a mental breakdown when she realizes she's all alone.
Hell if it were up to me, In the middle of having this breakdown (with everyone around her dead) I'd have Cell appear, (Bra somehow knowing Cell has a nucleus and checking for it while Gohan didn't is ridiculous and never happened here, he recovered from his nucleus here) still healing from nearly dying (his nucleus saved him) commenting that's what I was waiting for: shooting Bra through the heart with another special beam cannon, then having him tell a dying Bra as he finishes recovering: thank you for the zenkai, for a moment I actually thought you had killed me. Thanks to you, I'm now just as strong as Gohan is when he stops holding back. Then to the other Bra: keeping you alive was the correct decision after all. Very well done. Then to u16 Bra as he finishes her off: this is what you get for being too weak to defy Babidi on your own. Boom, blast to the face, u16 Bra is dead. And Cell is set up as just as strong as full power gohan for his tournament match with Vegeta. Raising suspense.
But this entire fight was cheapened by the use of senzu beans, the lack of actual teamwork and this I AM NOT PASSIVE bullshit.
Bra comes across as incompetent, after all for all her power, she had to resort to senzu beans multiple times to win. Despite supposedly being in a different leaque from the other characters. She also comes across as weak willed, as she doesn't have the stones to go on fighting without hitting the reset button the moment something happens, thus she comes of as a poser/a tryhard, instead of an actual badass.
The heroes meanwhile come across as morons for standing around doing nothing except attack one at a time. And in the end accomplishing nothing of note.
Gohan doesn't need a new powerup, teamwork could have made up for the difference in power between ssj2 Bra and everyone else. Especially since Cell was shownc capable of blowing her arm off, Gohan was able to injure her and the heliots were enough of a threat that she had to dodge them.
But by "negating the actual teamwork" that effectively became impossible.
This ending sucks.
Agreed. At most, Majin Bra should've been able to Senzu once. Majin Buu working with the heroes amounted to exactly nothing. He didn't try to heal anyone, and his SOLE contribution was a failed plan by U18 Gohan that didn't even leave a scratch.
It would've had more tension if Majin Bra was being worn down with injuries, getting kinda desperate, as opposed to CTRL+Zing all damage and basically SMUGLY roflstomping everyone, with only one or two brief lapses that don't amount to much of anything after she healed herself a second time. The Piccolos could've decided to destroy the Senzu Beans as a calculated risk, when they saw that U16 Bra was taking damage, as a way to establish "no more Reset buttons." Bra was still in her Super Saiyan 2 state at that point, she was still highly dangerous.
It cannot be overemphasized that U16 Bra could NOT conceivably know about Cell's nucleus, what it LOOKS like, that he trained himself to survive attacks (it was not foreshadowed, her knowing that, and U18 Bra was the only witness, too). There's many cases of characters that aren't Bra having layers upon layers of stupid mistakes (not ganging up on her adequately, Cell Jrs being too useless), and U16 Bra inexplicably having information she shouldn't know.
To be clear, I am NOT against the resolution of "U18 Bra talks down U16 Bra" on principle, but I think it would've been markedly more impactful if U16 Bra was bloodied and quite injured at that point, had been desperate more often before then, as opposed to being mostly smug after healing the second time, and ending the whole arc with one superficial injury to one leg, because it would feel more like the efforts of everyone before U18 Bra weren't all for nothing, as if the injuries and desperation had softened her ego, and U18 Bra finished it with her words.
Doesn't that sound like it could be a lot more meaningful?
For example, we liked Frieza and Vegeta as villains in DBZ because they'd keep getting back up after you hurt them, fight on, even if they were pretty damn hurt. (also, Vegeta's determination made him admirable afterwards as well, even after he wasn't an antagonist, like how he kept trying to fight even after he got his arm broken by 18, or how he wouldn't stay down against Kid Buu)
U16 Bra's stint in villainy decidedly does not tick the same boxes as the aforementioned DBZ characters that made them effective, due to the Reset Buttons killing tension. (and before you say "but Frieza transformations," he was really hurt by that Spirit Bomb, and went on to fight Super Saiyan Goku like that, badly hurt)