But the real Nappa is too brash and inpatient to be a mentor. He likes to flex on the weak and loses his composure when a strong opponent shows up. I don't think he has the qualities of a mentor.

King Kindred was saying: No. The power gap is very much massive. Trunks himself said this.

Also, Goku Black has always used ki blades. This technique isn't new to him and according to the Zamasu in him he's perfected Kaioken if that's the ability you were talking about.
You're kind of missing my point - if it was truly massive, Goku Black would be able to kill Trunks as effortlessly as Trunks killed Frieza. In fact, he might even do so by accident. I don't doubt that there's a substantial difference in their current power levels, but Trunks took a lot of hits, but nothing that was truly critical or even severe from what we can see. That either means that Goku Black is unable to inflict that kind of injury on Trunks, or that he is choosing not to.

If it's the former, then Trunks can win by just outlasting Goku Black's onslaught until he adjusts to it. If it's the latter, then Goku Black is making a fatal mistake - because if he doesn't successfully kill Trunks, Trunks will make every effort to kill him, and unlike Goku Black, he won't toy around with things like using qi blades to slice up his clothes. I realize that him not killing Trunks outright is a storytelling mechanic, but there are better ways to tell that story than "Trunks is powerless against me right now so watch as I slice up his clothing with qi blades". As the saying goes, never do your enemy a small injury, and that looks like it's all Goku Black is doing here.

In short, I'm giving Goku Black/Zamasu the benefit of the doubt here - because if the power level difference is great enough that he could easily kill Trunks, and he chooses not to, then his current behavior is nothing but foolish hubris.

Wasn't original Cell's regeneration so dangerous because of the Frieza cells allowing him to survive insane hits, plus Piccolo's regen? I'll assume Gero got Piccolo's still, but without Frieza's, this Cell might not be able to endure the same amount of damage

Vash was saying: This Cell lacks real combat experience. Sure it might have some “genetic memory” from the DNA collected, but it's different from actual fighting. The normal timeline Cell had to fight through Piccolo, Androids, Vegeta, Trunks, even before the Cell game. On multiple encounters, Cell was at a disadvantage. This one here is fresh out of the lab.

SSJ2 Your Nick was saying: Something to note about this Cell is, while he lacks Freeza/Cold's DNA, he does have something ours lacks... Gohans.

It's possible he's a loose cannon in the same way, and if pushed he'd essentially go SSJ2/Super Perfect. That rage boost might make him a real challenge, regardless of the Frost Demon DNA.

The normal timeline perfect Cell had Gohan’s DNA from the Saiyan Saga. At the same time they collected DNA from Goku, Vegeta, and Nappa, Piccolo, and other five human Z-fighters. Possibility Saibeman too, which might be where Cell’s self-destruction skill comes from.

The manga actually only specifies Goku, Vegeta, Piccolo, Freeza and King Cold by name. It also says, “a number of other life forms” but doesn’t specify who/what.
Might be the humans/Gohan’s, might a couple of bugs. We don’t know.

Gohan: kills a member of his team = all good, he's a good kiddo.
Vegeta: kills a member of his team = >:(

The double standards of this page are so heavy that they're almost too realistic!

The art in this is pretty damn good. But man, it's getting harder and harder to handwave some of the glaring flaws in the story away. Trunks doesn't immediately go for the quick kill because he can't tap into the Rage form at will yet? Ok, while that's not how it was in the show as he was shown to go right back into it when he fought Black at some point after Vegeta and Goku left, but for the sake of story we'll just accept this. Plot keeps going, and Trunks goads Black into transforming into his Rose form, and we're left to think it's because Trunks still needed a push to reach his new form, but in a flashback we're told that's not the case, as Whis trained him to master the form. Which means.....WHY didn't Trunks just go for the quick kill here again like he did with all his previous fights against Frieza, Cold, the androids back in his timeline and imperfect Cell?

Art's cool, fight scenes are cool, plot and story are way out in left field somewhere.

mAc Chaos was saying: Damian Qualshy was saying: Teleported_Bread was saying: That's a sick shot

kcheeb was saying: Why ssj2 hairstyle
It isn't. It's from the flair-up of the Kaioken's aura. SSJ2 hair has less bangs, and the stand-up of the hair is more intense
Yeah but you know Goku never got that treatment in DBS, or even in DBZ filler, hence the confusion.
I'm not exactly fond of this, maybe it would work better on a different pose, for example Goku's SSJ rage on Namek when Freeza was talking about Krillin - his hair goes all the way up exactly like here. But this pose is too.. simple? At least for the hair to work like that. I don't know how to say that the pose "lacks energy", if anyone understands what I mean.
actually i take it back, he has it a few times in namek, like vs ginyu

https://s...=20220814231104

the aura doesnt match though

Was it straight up like so? I might not remember (the link to image doesn't work)

I still never fully understood why Gero gave his later Androids like 19 an operational circulatory system complete with (presumably) fake blood. Maybe like with Data's from Star Trek, it has a purpose, but I don't recall if it was ever explained in the manga or a Daizenshuu interview with Toriyama.

BassMaster516 was saying: lol Dr. Gero has a type it seems
I'd say he does. Long hair, brilliant mind, slight dork?

Teleported_Bread was saying: That's a sick shot

kcheeb was saying: Why ssj2 hairstyle
It isn't. It's from the flair-up of the Kaioken's aura. SSJ2 hair has less bangs, and the stand-up of the hair is more intense
Yeah but you know Goku never got that treatment in DBS, or even in DBZ filler, hence the confusion.
I'm not exactly fond of this, maybe it would work better on a different pose, for example Goku's SSJ rage on Namek when Freeza was talking about Krillin - his hair goes all the way up exactly like here. But this pose is too.. simple? At least for the hair to work like that. I don't know how to say that the pose "lacks energy", if anyone understands what I mean.

geta had to bluff Gero into running, Android 19 had drained a lot of energy from him. If Gero decided to fight Vegeta right there Vegeta would've lost. This is stated in the manga.

Philsdesign was saying:
It's not like they cared when he died in the original timeline. They literally said reviving him was a waste of a wish (it's not like any limits were given) and then repeatedly mocked him and called him a weakling while fighting the humans

Vegeta also didn't exactly care about his planet being wrecked or hearing Frieza killed his father. Heck, he even killed Nappa solely because Goku broke Nappa's spine and he had no use for a cripple (his literal words). There's also him being outraged Gohan saved him from Recoome instead of attacking Recoome

Simply put, saiyans don't exactly put a lot of value on the lives of comrades and if one dies it just means he was a weakling. They were literally joking the only one the humans would kill is Radditz a few pages back. This Vegeta seems to care even less since also let Nappa get hit by a kienzan

When Gohan saves Vegeta from Recoome, Vegeta gets mad at him for wasting his energy and not attacking Recoome. Vegeta is just like that. He doesn't care if the weak are destroyed, even if the weakling is him. He's more upset when time is wasted on weaklings instead of fighting.

I think that's exclusively Vegeta though. Raditz and Nappa don't really mock their opponents for having each others backs. I think it's more realistic to say that Raditz and Nappa likely worked as a team more often than not. I doubt Vegeta ever needed to team up with any one. He never does. First time is what? The Cooler movie! He is "1v1" or bust, he'd rather just sit on the sidelines other wise. Vegeta doesn't actively work as a team with anyone in Dragon Ball.

SoyBear was saying: I love this interpretation of Nappa so much, and the writer did such a great job writing the buildup to this conflict.

There was no build up

Source??? First time I'm hearing anything of the sorts.

Andy was saying: Herp Derp was saying: Wonder where this is going to put Nappa, his loyalty is 100% split here. I wonder if he'll have a Piccolo moment if Vegeta decides to kill Nasu.

Nah, Nappa is Vegetas lapdog

The most you could argue about him is that he wasn't 'quite' so depraved as Vegeta. It's few, but we catch a couple glimpses of him being at odds with Vegeta - the assumption they were going to Earth to resurrect Raditz and then his disbelief at his superior killing a Saibaman.

kcheeb was saying: Philsdesign was saying: Cosmichero was saying: 仅是剑客 was saying: The Gohan's character is weird, like he didn't know conquer Earth meant he would have to fight against his mother.

I think Gohan blocked out the memories he had on Earth, as a defense mechanism so he could survive in a world where he needed to commit atrocities or die.

He knew where he came from, but his feeling and memories only came back when he heard his mother.

That still doesn't make sense

Gohan couldn't stand his mom (literally asked if he could live with Bulma post Namek) and barely had any bond with his father (by the age of 16 Goku was absent for over 10 years). Both barely knew or cared for Gohan, Chichi was the definition of a tiger mom who made him study 24/7 without caring what he actually wanted and Goku a deadbeat who viewed Gohan as a mini him and again didn't care about his interests (the only actual time they ever spent together was training)

The true parental figure was Piccolo. In every adaptation this is shown and he is the one that effectively raised Gohan to be who he grew into

That never happened here, Nappa took that role and raised him to be a bloodthirsty killer, empathy and emotions are weak and so on.

Nasu doing a 180 like this makes no sense unless he either says he'll do it faster, plans to steal leadership from Vegeta (so be a true saiyan) or just goes full Omniman and says Earth isn't theirs to conquer
Chichi wasn't tiger mom yet at that age Gohan was 4

I think she only made him study stafting age 5

Goku told the others he wasn't allowed to train Gohan at all and Chichi had him studying all the time when introducing him.

Chichi effectively made Gohan study from birth and it showed. Gohan wasn't pleased to see her after his year with Piccolo and literally asked Bulma if he could live at capsule Corp with the Namekians after Namek

The person Gohan formed a parental bond with was Piccolo. The person he shared with and who truly understood him was Piccolo

If that bond has been formed with Nappa instead it could mean Nappa sides with him here (just like Piccolo "turned good" too). Though a true saiyan version wouldn't be side with earthlings but instead usurp control from Vegeta and become the new leader and conquer Earth for himself

Ammar was saying:
Ah yes, Goku never cared for his son, which is why he saved him multiple times & sacrificed himself twice to save his life. -_- But yeah, sure! Piccolo who kidnaped him and abused him is his true father. xD

Pretty much yes, Goku never cared about Gohan on a personal level, which is why he had no idea what Gohan wanted in life, knew nothing of his personality and so on. It's why he threw him at Cell thinking Gohan was a crazed battle thirsty warrior like himself and needed Piccolo to literally tell him who is son actually was.

Goku also abandoned his family to train in space for 2,5 years (could have been brought back but refused), then again for 7 years to fight people in the afterlife (could have been revived but refused), then missed all gatherings for 5+ years to train and then finally abandoned his family to live with Uub. Heck, look at DB, it lasted over 10 years but Goku saw everyone for a few weeks total (except the year training with Krillen) the rest of the time he was gone for literally years at a time. Goku saving people doesn't somehow negate him constantly disappearing for years on end and knowing pretty much nothing about any of them on a personal level outside of powerlevels

Calling it now: XXI is a Namekian.

Ouroboros was saying: Bombero was saying: What does XXI say?

Didn't the Multiverse authors release a Language translation?


https://www.dragonball-multiverse.com/en/strip-105.html

''Bring the warriors to me''

FishNChips was saying: Damian Qualshy was saying:
I never said you implied his writing is bad.
Oh.. I was under the impression you thought I was saying that Salagir's writing's bad :< No I didn't, but yeah we may have Goten ;) confused with my joke. It's just a lot of twists - Bardock's visions for instance, the battles with XXI (altho by now it's no longer surprise he one-shots opponents)

Regardless, I wouldn't be surprised if Nasu went back to Gohan. Kakarotto was conditioned to be a monster before hitting his head and becoming Goku, plus he was purebred Saiyan, a barbarian. But Gohan is a hybrid, his humane side may come up despite the years spent with his adopted 'uncles'.

Also, we had a glimpse of what it's like to be an evil version of one's self and go on planetary conquests, serving Frieza - with U13 in the main storyline, so this could be an interesting twist!

Except that's not what happened. That's just Salagir's interpretation. Saiyans weren't programmed to kill like he was, and it doesn't even make much sense for Kakarot to become such a psychopath in the first place.

Gohan was 4 years old when he was taken away, and from the previous chapter we saw that he was well aware of what was going on, unlike Saiyan newborns. He's not a completely different person, definitely a lot of trauma can surface now, but what's different between him and Kakarot is that Gohan is a bit older and he remembers his short life on Earth.

I wouldn't mind if he DOES switch sides so quickly and suddenly decides to stand with Earthlings, but it would be a tiny bit more interesting if it wasn't so sudden and he struggled with it at first.

FishNChips was saying: The question is - what is the question??

But seriously - did Nasu zero' Raditz because Gohan awoken in him, or .. was it just to punish Raditz for being Weak, akin to Vegeta sending Nappa to the next dimension.

I'm inclined to believe the former, but I dunno how much Salagir-nite is in Goten-Kun and wether he's trying to build a false sense of security here and then shell the plot with twists xDDD
So far I didn't notice any poor writing from goten-kun, but I'm inclined to believe that Gohan wouldn't do a 180 just like that. That would be way too easy, even for goten-kun.

goten-kun was saying: migoq was saying: I get it's mostly to allow this different take on the story and is ultimately w/e, characters in db or like any animes aren't know for reasonable thinking, but still I don't really see any reason for goku to not show up with the borrowed time to fight the saiyans, but showing up to do this
Goku is dead, he can't fix the situation. In Buu saga, he could Killing Majin Buu but he didn't. He just learned fusion to the boys.
Here, this is exactly the same thing. He learned some techniques to his friends. And he didn't know when the saiyans would come.

But he did take out Yakon with the objective being to prevent Buu's release. His actions were certifiably some of the biggest both in terms of trying to prevent Buu and ironically helping to facilitate his unloosening (the fight with Vegeta).

New page on my version of Goku vs XXI

PrinceBrass was saying: So it's like Goku vs Slug that pre ssj


No, it's like Broly dbs vs goku ssj god especially ;)

Wait, what?! Goku was actually allowed to come back to Earth to help train the Z Fighters? This begs the question—why not during the Android attacks?!

The 24-hour return from the afterlife was interpreted as a privilege. If I remember correctly. That would mean taking advantage of this concept to interfere in events of the living should not really be allowed. In DBZ, Goku was given permission so he could participate in a fun tournament with his family and friends. Which later got out of hand, but after Goku already received the permit. Vegeta was given permission so that he could defeat Buu because the universe was in danger.

I think if Goku was given his 24 hours during the Saiyan attack, that would be a blatant violation of Enma Daio's principles. The universe isn't in danger, just a planet. Why would deities from the afterlife explicitly interfere on behalf of one planet? I think taking advantage of the one day to train with old friends is more acceptable, since you're not directly interfering in a specific event. Just a short term event.

Surprised he went in for the kill, not just a punch in the face. I figured he would have some afinity for his uncle since he raised him

mAc Chaos was saying: Damian Qualshy was saying: mAc Chaos was saying: Damian Qualshy was saying: I see he's still unreasonably weaker then?
rage blue was always weaker than rose tbh

This Black should also be weaker than originally, Trunks after the fights should've catched up at least to this level so they should be on the same level if anything.
And I still don't understand why haven't we seen Zamasu yet..
rose black was just stronger than everyone the entire time though, just differing amounts

why would this trunk be caught up

No he wasn't? He was actually slapped by Goku and Vegeta the second time they got back. This Trunks would be caught up because this Black shouldn't even have Rose and he should be as strong as SS2 Goku, or at least SS3. Definitely not as strong as Black before fusing with Zamasu.
He should be weak compared to Trunks now.

So instead of firing off the blast at the one who called you useless or the warrior in front of you, you fire a beam at the weakling bystanders. You just proved Vegeta right even more.

This feels forced. I expected Vegeta to attack Chi Chi after he saw Gohan considering changing sides, but Raditz blasting them here when he has an opponent in front of him is random.

mAc Chaos was saying: Damian Qualshy was saying: I see he's still unreasonably weaker then?
rage blue was always weaker than rose tbh

This Black should also be weaker than originally, Trunks after the fights should've catched up at least to this level so they should be on the same level if anything.
And I still don't understand why haven't we seen Zamasu yet..

I see he's still unreasonably weaker then?

mulled_piss was saying: how strong would the androids be without all the data
Dr Gero skipped the Namek Arc, so... no data on supersayien, no data on Namekian fusion, no data on all those aliens in frieza's army like the ginyu troops.
I'm going to guess... probably the same as canon?

In retrospect, it's honestly a bit baffling how fucking strong Dr Gero's creations are in canon when based on what he actually got his hands on, even if we assume he got some DNA from Frieza's father's second form (not frieza himself since he was completely incinerated).

If it's the androids, everyone of them is possibly dead if they act like the future timeline ones, unless Great Ape is used by either Vegeta or Nasu, then they have a chance.

I find it impressive how Nappa's arm amputation apparently doesn't bleed anymore after a few moments...

In one year they went from less than 200 to stronger than Radditz with Krillin killing several Saibamen in one attack.

watch it fail.

because goten kuns personal opinion is that the mafuuba caps out at a certain level, regardless of the one using it.

majin buu using the mafuuba on say, freeza would fail because freeza is too strong and so on. this was the explanation used as to why mafuuba wasn't used in the namek mangas he made.

I don't have a problem with this hypothesis, none whatsoever.

I just hope its explained in universe for why it fails and in comic.

and then its all fine and dandy.

I think its a perfectly valid reason, if explained well enough.

It's a good thing Beerus can't move out of his planet without Whis, since obviously flying alone is not an option and too slow. BUT isn't Whis breaking the rules here? He should be with Beerus at all times, or at least not away for long periods of time. So unless he's been called by his dad, that might be a small problem.

I don't recall it being mentioned that Vegeta exploited zenkais in the intermission period to train. But the point isn't them achieving a pinnacle, rather it's just to demonstrate that notable gains are still possible even with old methods. I didn't expect them to surpass the contemporary Goku of Yardrat, but the one that came before without Super Saiyan form? Not unreasonable for them or, hopefully, the humans given the specific circumstances they have.

As for the Divine Water, is it not that case that it actually does nothing? Climbing the tower is what gave Goku his strength. I could be wrong here, however.

I do not know about that, in the mainstory they were only there for like a month or two... Would like a reason for them being so weak from the main author though.

The Earthlings had 10 years, with King Kai's training and additional training for the androids, Tien managed to pin down Semi-Perfect Cell during that time... You are telling me he is at best slightly above Nappa? Did the Humans train for like 2 years and just stop?

vwishmwahuul was saying: TheOG was saying: goten-kun was saying:
Okay, I forgot!^^
Yikes! I'm starting to worry about this story if the author forgot the MOST PIVOTAL PART OF THE FIGHT that's happened so far (sorry Raditz)

Don’t put the guy down just for forgetting. He’s not a printing machine churning these pages out one after another. The time, effort, and skill necessary to make the level of artworks I see in these comic is not anything to dismiss. Is every piece perfect? No. That’s not true for anyone. But I’ll bet real money that 99% of the commenters couldn’t do half as good. Me personally? I’m not just part of the 99% that couldn’t do half as good. I’m part of the 60% that couldn’t do a quarter as good. There are crimes I’d commit in order to have the ability to draw this well.

Idk man, I never said I could draw this stuff. But I'm pretty sure I'd remember if an arm was cut off of one of the characters I was drawing...

mAc Chaos was saying: Royaken was saying: Yes, quality of training is important. But the only training they all did in that one year was against each other. Yet Krillin still became 5x stronger in that one year.
Don't forget. They were training under Kami, which was new for them. In this story, there is no Kami since Piccolo died. So there's that.

That is a non-factor and again, we have Popo here who knows everything Kami knows plus more from his long life.

Yes, quality of training is important. But the only training they all did in that one year was against each other. Yet Krillin still became 5x stronger in that one year.

So yeah... this fight should be one sided and it should be in favor of the humans.

Here's, I think, my first or maybe second problem with the colored version. This should've been grayed out, or at least leave as little color as possible.

This just doesn't work for Nappa at all, and Raditz is too sunny. This is supposed to be Gohan remembering it as horrible situations, and also it's a memory, so it shouldn't be full color like so in my honest opinion.

Pizzachu was saying: Salagir thinks Gohan is such a dark and serious character

Yeah, I noticed that only recently. Gohan was never THAT smart and calculating like in DBM. As a matter of fact, he's kind of an idiot when it comes to social interactions, which is very understandable, but also when it comes to his battle smarts. He's a very intelligent person, yeah, and he's very strong for sure. But he's never shown to be like whatever is going on here in DBM.

And yeah, DBS also made him "the smart fighter" which is fine as well has here, because a lot of time has passed and Gohan had time to properly mature. I'm not blaming Salagir on writing Gohan like that, because I really like this take on the character anyway.

the earthlings may have had 10 years of training but what training did they do? the only masters they had access to at the time are Roshi, Korin, and Mr Popo and themselves. Unlike Saiyans the humans are also susceptible to diminishing returns. If anything they plateaued what they could improve under their own power. If they had access to King Kai's training in that ten year span, they absolutely could have improved enough to take out the saiyans, assuming that the saiyans didn't under go any improvements themselves from getting Gohan up to speed. Kaioken would have worked wonders, but i don't see them beating vegeta and Gohan without killing themselves with Kaiokenx4. The HTC exists but since Goku couldn't handle it Popo probably thought it would be a waste of time (haha)

How long did Tien last again in DBZ with a severed arm in the fight against Nappa? Maybe this Nappa's situation is meant to mimic that in a way.


Thiln was saying: Ten years of continuous training and this is the result. The humans managed to surpass Raditz in less than one during the Saiyan arc. It feels like they're being short-changed. Couldn't Chaozu at least paralyse Nappa here? Psychic powers seem to allow the user to punch above their weight class by a good amount.

Anyway, maybe Yamcha shows up to intercept Nappa? He seems to be in the best position right now out of all the humans.I have to think of the Android Arc from DBZ. They spent 3 years preparing for the arrival of the Androids and for the most part couldn't make an impact. Then they spend an extra year in HTC, and suddenly they can all one-shot #18.

Somehow they managed to do a lot more in one year than they did in the 3 years before. Maybe the type of training is important. Perhaps it is also relevant whether the threat is close at hand versus a hypothetical threat that is a long way off.

So you're saying that the fans who don't pay to read this should lighten up on the people who've devoted 15 some years to this site?

Yea I don’t know how I feel about this either. Also who defines good and evil? It’s all relative.

mAc Chaos was saying: King Kindred was saying: Lmaoo poor Chiatzou. That didn't do a thing but annoy Nappa.

I was thinking Chiatzou was going to freeze Nappa with his telekinesis so Krillin could finish him with the kienzan.
The attack didn't happen yet.

What's that on Nappa's back then? It looks just like the energy in Chiatzou's hand.

Lmaoo poor Chiatzou. That didn't do a thing but annoy Nappa.

I was thinking Chiatzou was going to freeze Nappa with his telekinesis so Krillin could finish him with the kienzan.

I have to say it's slightly jarring to see XXI suddenly come up with all these convenient powers he never manifested before. I know he was relying on his own DBs until now, but still...

Ninetails2002 was saying: Well at least we finally know what XXI wants to wish for, said plain and clear as day.

He’s either lying or stupid. The Dragon Balls can’t grant that power, or else Buu should be able to do it easily.

I don't really understand the logic that every Earthling would be at the same level they were at in the main timeline.

What bench-marks for strength do they have? If the two strongest people you'd ever known were killed by a guy some two, to three times stronger than them, they'd be thinking along those metrics. Their ambitions would not to be to attain increases in power in terms of ten thousand, to twenty thousand times increases(If not more if you go by the main time-line powerscale). Such a feat would seem impossible to them.

More over, even if that was their ambition, how would they even know how? It was Goku's training with King Kai and his training under immense gravitational loads, that got him to 20'000(Not counting Kaioken) and the brutal zenkai boost that got him even further. It was Gohan and Krillin's potential being unlocked, their witnessing of Goku's increases in strength, and no doubt knowledge of training from Piccolo's new aspect in Nail.

Never mind that none of this has happened, or that none of them even know how strong Vegeta truly was at the time of Goku and Piccolo's death, let alone how strong Frieza is/could be.

The logic many commenters here are applying would conclude that Goku, who had been training for 18 years by the arrival of Raditz, should have had a power in the tens of millions. He did not. He had a power less than a thousand.

I would argue most of them are still below ten thousand.

We would also need to apply the logic of power increase to the Saiyans too. After all, Gohan has gone from pip-squeak levels to being brave enough to talk back to Vegeta. He must have seen massive increases in power. Considering Vegeta went from 6'200(Or more, if you want to be harsher with your sources) to 18'000 in twice the time, Gohan -- the half-breed son of a low class warrior -- getting anywhere close to even Raditz would be considered immensely impressive. Here he seems to be beyond his uncle. If Gohan was capable of this kind of growth, why not the other three? We know Vegeta trained as a child, and we know that in the show Vegeta prides himself on being the only one of Frieza's elite who actually fights tough battles. We also know, even with his power, he would never step in to rescue a subordinate on the cusp of death.

I think the Z-Fighters and the Saiyans would be pretty damn even, with the exception of going up against Vegeta. I'd roughly guess the Power levels are as follows,

Chiaotzu - 1,800

Krillin - 2,900

Raditz - 3,200(Generous here, but falling behind Gohan would logically have motivated him somewhat, he's also still harsh to Gohan and must fancy his power somewhat

Yamcha - 4,000(He's confident enough to turn his back on Raditz)

Nappa - 6,000(Likely not fighting seriously, probably closer to 9,000 going all out)

Tien - 5,500

Gohan - 5,000(Probably on Vegeta's level with a rage boost)

"it's been a long time since I've had such a powerful opponent"
"Don't be so sure!!"

This tien return feels off to me, like , Gohan cannot be so sure cause you are not "that" powerful?

Didn't Nasu say on the previous page that it's been a long time since he had a powerful opponent? Tien's response is kind of strange.

Either way, enjoying the story, can see how Goten-kun improved his art style since the previous mangas.

Honestly, from the way Gohan speaks he seems much weaker here than in the normal universe, he is definitely much inferior to Vegeta and for one, I would like him to have the potential and power of his counterpart, I think it could be interesting to see how Vegeta and Freeza would react to a Saiyan with so much power and potential

Jblaze94 was saying: I guess in this universe vegeta didn't feel like warning nappa about the kienzan. Not sure how the saiyans didn't improve over 10 years. Earthlings with no special training should be able to keep up with them.
I think the saiyans (and the frostdemon empire at large) don't have a concept of training like the earthlings have. They know only two ways to get stronger: via Oozaru or via a near-death expirience from a zenkai. Our Vegeta only begun to train after he saw the difference by Goku from his encounter on earth to the beatdown he gave to the Ginyu-Force.

The text not being properly aligned is a bit annoying.

Is he really transforming into a regular Super Saiyan though? Trunks should be like waaaaay ahead of him, especially with Super Saiyan Rage, if he didn't figure out Rose yet.

Okay but why? Like, he's clearly not a berserk right now, he thinks straight. Why go to war?

Nohkan was saying: JetMalakai was saying: Nohkan was saying: The earthings should be far above Nappa and Radditz. Interested to see how this shakes out. Still feel like the Z warriors smack Nappa and Radditz and Vegeta angrily intervenes, which will lead to a battle with Gohanasu

Far above Raditz, yes. Nappa? Maybe, maybe not. Most of them could have matched or beaten Raditz by the time Nappa and Vegeta arrived on Earth in canon, and Nappa still almost soloed the whole team. I say almost because he'd have been dumb enough to try to catch Krillin's kienzan had Vegeta not given him a heads up. Besides that little verbal assist, he demolished a team of five, at least three of which were equal to or stronger than Raditz.

I feel like a lot of people underestimate Nappa's power because they still go off of that old 4,000 rating for him. That's not even possible to be correct. He was batting Piccolo (3,500) around like it was nothing and gave Goku (8,000+) a challenge before he used Kaioken. Nappa was more like 6,000 or 7,000.

If all four of them are stronger than Nappa, they can probably take Vegeta together.

in the original Saiyan saga, the earthlings got their power levels to 1k+ in a year's time. given another 10-12 years (depending if they used hyperbolic time chamber), i think it's fair to assume their power levels are each approximately 10k+. however, i'm assuming that the Saiyans didn't get much more powerful themselves since they likely didn't have any intense battles during that time.

my estimated power levels:

Vegeta: 18k
Gohan: 15k
Tien: 13k
Krillin: 12k
Yamacha: 11k
Chao: 10k
Nappa: 6k
Radditz: 3k

Gohan is the big question mark, but I'd say he's likely already far more powerful than Vegeta when he gets angry

They trained intensely with Kami during that time because of the incoming Saiyan attack. They wouldn't commit themselves to it that harshly under normal circumstances. Well, maybe Tien, but the rest of them actually want to have a life. :P

If I had to put numbers to it, here are my estimates.

Vegeta: 20K (slight improvement over Saiyan Saga canon just due to a tough battle here or there)
Nasu: 12K (stronger than everyone aside from Vegeta, and I'll admit that this is a half guess; he could be anywhere between Vegeta and Nappa)
Nappa: 8,000 (6-7K in canon, with small boosts for the same reason as Vegeta)
Raditz: 4,000 (more likely to have had a zenkai or two than the other Saiyans)

Tien: 10,000 (he trains obsessively, and I'd say he could still take Nasu at this level due to the difference in experience)
Krillin: 6,000 (like I said before, he has a life beyond martial arts)
Yamcha: 5,000 (similar to Krillin, but potential is slightly lower)
Chaotsu: 3,000 (he trains a lot but not as much as Tien, but still his potential is horrible)

These numbers mean that they could likely take the three of them minus Vegeta, but as soon as the Prince steps in they're hosed.

JetMalakai was saying: Nohkan was saying: The earthings should be far above Nappa and Radditz. Interested to see how this shakes out. Still feel like the Z warriors smack Nappa and Radditz and Vegeta angrily intervenes, which will lead to a battle with Gohanasu

Far above Raditz, yes. Nappa? Maybe, maybe not. Most of them could have matched or beaten Raditz by the time Nappa and Vegeta arrived on Earth in canon, and Nappa still almost soloed the whole team. I say almost because he'd have been dumb enough to try to catch Krillin's kienzan had Vegeta not given him a heads up. Besides that little verbal assist, he demolished a team of five, at least three of which were equal to or stronger than Raditz.

I feel like a lot of people underestimate Nappa's power because they still go off of that old 4,000 rating for him. That's not even possible to be correct. He was batting Piccolo (3,500) around like it was nothing and gave Goku (8,000+) a challenge before he used Kaioken. Nappa was more like 6,000 or 7,000.

If all four of them are stronger than Nappa, they can probably take Vegeta together.

in the original Saiyan saga, the earthlings got their power levels to 1k+ in a year's time. given another 10-12 years (depending if they used hyperbolic time chamber), i think it's fair to assume their power levels are each approximately 10k+. however, i'm assuming that the Saiyans didn't get much more powerful themselves since they likely didn't have any intense battles during that time.

my estimated power levels:

Vegeta: 18k
Gohan: 15k
Tien: 13k
Krillin: 12k
Yamacha: 11k
Chao: 10k
Nappa: 6k
Radditz: 3k

Gohan is the big question mark, but I'd say he's likely already far more powerful than Vegeta when he gets angry

kkk was saying: Stop explaining stuff to your enemy, Trunks!

So this timeline is the result of Beerus erasing Zamazu? It was a bit ambiguous when Whis explained it in Chapter 1. Still, I don't understand how erasing the Zamasu who would eventually become Goku Black can lead to a Goku Black existing in the future. My bet is that something else happened (in addition to Beerus erasing Zamasu) causing a Goku Black to still exist, and arrive earlier than in the original future.

It can't be the timeline where zamasu was eliminated by beet us. That happened in main timeline

I don't think authkr knows what he's doing

No Frost Demon DNA, but MF is cocky as hell still...
Vegeta's genes carrying I guess, even tho the superiority talk of this kind is more so Frieza's thing

Actually, I don't want to say Nappa is idiot. Just "big" or "fat".
I think he is fat, yes. He is ripped yes, but, we can say he is fat.^^

papupata was saying: "We're going to be the big fat"

Is that some kind of an idiom in French that doesn't translate?

In a way. We say Gros lard in french. Dunno your slang for a fat guy who looks brainless in english

We still need an official explanation why he is older than videl, not just about height but age, videl is at best 10 or 11, and this gohan is prolly looking older than his 11 yrs old age

I do bet on hyperbolic machine but it's not yet confirmed

King Kindred was saying: Greenfox was saying: Sooo bullets hardly scratched kid Goku's skin when he was first introduced.....and now Goku black, who is millions or even billions times stronger than start-kid-Goku is bleeding from a shotgun bullet.....sure a shotgun bullet has more impact than the pistol Bulma used at the start of Dragon Ball....and the bullet could even be enhanced to do more damage....but did I mention yet that Goku black is millions or even billions times stonger than start-kid-Goku?

Oh and please don't mention Goku and Krillin getting hurt by bullets in Dragon Ball Super because that's just as odd to me...I cut those clips out of those episodes.

Yes I know, power scaling is BS and bla bla bla....and maybe my opinion is not popular, but I don't think Goku black would bleed because of any type of gun bullet.

What part of their durability comes from focused defense do y'all not understand? When they are not focused on defending they're vulnerable. That's how it has always worked. Vegeta explained this whole principle on Namek. Saiyans aren't built like Frieza's race. They're flesh and bone reinforced by ki. They're built to take damage naturally. That's how Goku despite reaching god levels was taken out by a tiny laser ring.

And you cut those bullet clips from Super but in both instances they're scratched by the bullets like Black is here(who doesn't even have Goku's full strength by this point).
Also there was a moment in Super where Mai sniped Goku Black with a 'kinetic bullet' from Bulma before she died. I think it's safe to assume she created a lot of different specialized and new ammunitions with the intent to make one that will pierce his ki-enforced skin. Besides, none of the Z-Fighters, alone, are bullet proof. That's why they always catch bullets when any are fired at them. We saw what happened when Goku blocked a bullet with the back of his hand before the Tournament of Power, and he was admittedly rusty then. If they could just take bullets without any form of defense, why would they bother catching them?