kcheeb was saying: yea... there was no source or incident on canon ever, where they ran out of ssj, aside from unconsciousness level injury

In cannon yes, but in the movies the they worn out fast. Give Vegeta a break, this is his first few minutes in this form :P

It may be he is able to revive himself with a senzu. Then he comes back and annihilates cooler. Remember in android saga against 19 piccolo said he way stronger than Goku as a super saiyan.

Decends was saying: Kinda wild that Goku need SSJ3 to block this attack when Final Form Cold should only be somewhere around Android 16 to Semi-Perfect Cell
I've seen people addressing this in all languages now and it's kinda weird that this is the only focus here of most readers.

It's kinda simple. Goku obviously doesn't need to be SSJ3 here to stop that.

This was the first main chapter Asura has drawn for DBM and he basically wanted to have an excuse to draw Goku as an SSJ3 iirc ^^

Just see it as rule of cool.

if U13 have a brain they should just retreat. idk if U13 vegeta’s pride will allow it or kakarots insanity

brolyhater was saying: Kaio K was saying: Looks like a SSJ level Kienzan can’t be lethal to anyone SSJ3 level or higher

Well yeah, we saw what happened when Krillin attempted to Keinzan Cell. The gap is just too huge, but it was a good attempt though.

On a different note, Vegeta is absolutely not letting Pan die. He'll probably force his hand out to stop the attack, injuring his hand in the process.

Tactically speaking though, if Pan does die here, U13 Vegeta is giving U18 Vegeta a rage boost, not to mention one less person to protect.

That was filler, the only canon uses it has a 100% succes rate

Krillen cut Nappa's cheek (would have decapitated if hit)
Vegeta cut Oozaru Gohans tail
Krillen cut Frieza's tail
Frieza cut himself in half
Base Goku cut Buutenks in half

Nobody managed to even slow it down. But yeah, giving it some kind of limitation makes sense (because them not all spamming the damn thing is weird seeing how OP'd it is) but having U13 Vegeta cutting it (like Bra did when Gohan created that huge one to take out Babidi) would have worked better

As for Pan here, surely there is some requirement for this technique to work and it not being a instantaneous one as soon as he points (no visual beam doesn't mean there isn't something being "fired" that needs to connect). So if Vegeta moves her out of the line of fire it should still miss

Looks like a SSJ level Kienzan can’t be lethal to anyone SSJ3 level or higher

gokublack was saying: Guys, what is the best universe to live in, I choose U1?
Sorry, but this is off topic. You can discuss such things on the forum or on our discord server.

Rey Vegeta was saying: Vegeta could blocked it even in his base form
No, he could not, at least not unharmed. Why do you think Goku goes SSJ against #17 (page 546), who's still weak, because he didn't get repaired like #18? Salagir put a cap on Saiyan forms. A Saiyan in his base will never be stronger than full power Frieza. A SSJ can never be stronger than a SSJ2 and so on. Bra and Vegetto are obvious exceptions to this rule, because of the fusion boost.

Polar was saying: Since vegeta could fight final form cooler and not get one shot I'd say his PL must be above 10 million. Lets say his PL is 25 million. 25million x 50 = 1250000000(1.25 billion) That doesn't seem right. 25 million is me lowballing it btw.

Except SSJ was never a 50x multiplier, or multiplier at all for that matter.

No canon powerlevel is ever given after 2nd form Frieza and AT in an interview a few years ago outright said it wasn't a multiplier, just dormant power and the amount was whatever the plot needed (which also explains why Base Vegeta inflicted more damage on #19 then a sick SSJ Goku did or why Babidi's kill reading was barely a 3x difference). He said he introduced SSJ to avoid having to keep coloring the hair and at the time felt it was like 10x stronger (not a 10 times multiplier, so the gap between Base and SSJ also decreased the stronger they got, which also explains how Piccolo was considered weaker then the base Saiyans by Debura)

Simply put, SSJ isn't a 50x multiplier, that was always a fan assumption.

Wait, doesn't Trunks already know how the fuse? Unless this is a new technique? Where did that come from? And why fuse with Trunks? He's not any stronger than the other one. He should fuse with Future Trunks instead. That'd be something.

DrewSaga was saying: Your nickel was saying: All things considered, I enjoyed this a lot more than the comic version. I still would've liked to see a no-bars fight between SSJ3 Vegeta and Cell (like Goku got against Uub), but the characterization in the novel gave this fight a lot more context. It didn't feel like Vegeta wasn't taking the fight seriously here; on the contrary, he had to get closure for his history with Cell.

Cell would have won that for sure. Vegeta would need his Max powerup to have an even fight with Cell I believe.
Well, that's a different thing I'm not really fond of. Goku and Vegeta's power was kind of nebulous for most of DBM, but around here is when it started becoming clear their level hasn't changed much since the Buu saga.

Tbh even if their base power has remained static for 20 years (which feels weird to me), I feel like they should have at least developed some impressive new techniques that might catch Cell off guard.

uh... how exactly? It's a plot point in DBZ that Freeza's cells give him the ability to survive in outer space... which he doesn't have here. Either Gero's programming is faulty, or this is an oversight.

And so, the Saiyans killed each other, and themselves, and our heroes did...very little.

>Vegeta donned a threatening frown and transformed into Super Saiyan 2, crackles of blue lightning zipping around his body, swirling and kicking dust into the air. The brow-less Saiyan’s chuckle cut off as his ascended counterpart approached him with a determined look, until he was mere inches in front of his face, glaring with defiance. As a Super Saiyan 3, the Saiyan emperor was utterly shocked by what he sensed — Vegeta’s energy as a mere level 2 was possibly a match for his own. There was no comparison between this and the power he’d put on display in the fight with Kakarotto. During Buu’s attack, the Saiyan prince had briefly demonstrated nearly this level, but he now seemed even more serious than then.

Serpent God was saying: iron leaf was saying: supersaiyan2kakarot was saying: Maybe piccolo can reduce the size of it so it only envelopes over his body (like a layer just pass his skin).

SoyBear was saying: That's what I also assume he did. Just limits it down to a small bubble around him like cell, moves the two, then makes it big again. That sounds very plausible.


Füchsin was saying: Interesting to speculate how Vegeta messures up to Bra with his new form. Just my gut, but I would put him and Goku using their new form somewhere in the Gohan/Cell ballpark. Maybe even higher than Gohan, as, with roughly equal power, they should be the more skilled fighters.
So IMO stronger than her ssj form but significantly weaker than her ssj2, at least her majin ssj2 form.That's exactly what I think when it comes to how strong Vegeta is compared to Son Bra.


Serpent God was saying: ZenBuu was saying: Your nickel was saying: I get that he's enraged, but...Vegeta's willing to kill someone with the same face as his daughter? And Gohan isn't livid at Vegeta threatening Videl?
Better question, how does Vegeta plan to kill Son Bra? I'd like to see how that plays out for him. 🤣

I like both Vegeta and Son Bra, but let's be real. He has no chance against her. If he could instantly transform to NSSJ, he would have a chance against her SSJ, but once she goes SSJ2, it's over for him.

Kyan Zennaro was saying: Your nickel was saying: I get that he's enraged, but...Vegeta's willing to kill someone with the same face as his daughter? And Gohan isn't livid at Vegeta threatening Videl?

U16 Gohan doesnt have glasses, so we havent seen his reaction yet
Well, it doesn't matter if it's U16 or U18 Gohan. As we've seen in the Majin rebellion, both Gohans would do everything to protect Videl. No matter from which universe she's from. But Gohan also knows, that Vegeta would never lay a hand on Videl. Vegeta knows Gohan very well, and he knows exactly what would happen with him then.
Vegeta threw kienzans at cell before the bio android could react. The same cell who reacted to bra's attacks. And vegeta was just in his ss2 too. If we take the novel into account, vegeta in ss2 is about strong as his u13 counterpart in ss3, and his ss3 is strong enough to produce the killing buu attack (which bra can only produce when she's in ss2). He'll be alright against ss bra.It is established that Cell and Vegeta deliberately fought at SSJ2 level. On the one hand, because Cell wanted to force a Zenkai, which, from his point of view, was only possible if he lowered himself to Vegeta's power level. On the other hand, because Vegeta wanted to give Cell a false sense of security so that he could later eliminate Cell with an SSJ3 sucker punch, as Cell would then be at SSJ2 level.

For the very last time. Vegeta in SSJ2 is not as strong as Mystic Gohan / U17 Cell.
By mid fight goku was suprised by cell's power, so he wasn't holding back to his bojak fight levels of power.



Grydon was saying: Serpent God was saying: ZenBuu was saying: Your nickel was saying: I get that he's enraged, but...Vegeta's willing to kill someone with the same face as his daughter? And Gohan isn't livid at Vegeta threatening Videl?
Better question, how does Vegeta plan to kill Son Bra? I'd like to see how that plays out for him. 🤣

I like both Vegeta and Son Bra, but let's be real. He has no chance against her. If he could instantly transform to NSSJ, he would have a chance against her SSJ, but once she goes SSJ2, it's over for him.

Kyan Zennaro was saying: Your nickel was saying: I get that he's enraged, but...Vegeta's willing to kill someone with the same face as his daughter? And Gohan isn't livid at Vegeta threatening Videl?

U16 Gohan doesnt have glasses, so we havent seen his reaction yet
Well, it doesn't matter if it's U16 or U18 Gohan. As we've seen in the Majin rebellion, both Gohans would do everything to protect Videl. No matter from which universe she's from. But Gohan also knows, that Vegeta would never lay a hand on Videl. Vegeta knows Gohan very well, and he knows exactly what would happen with him then.
Vegeta threw kienzans at cell before the bio android could react. The same cell who reacted to bra's attacks. And vegeta was just in his ss2 too. If we take the novel into account, vegeta in ss2 is about strong as his u13 counterpart in ss3, and his ss3 is strong enough to produce the killing buu attack (which bra can only produce when she's in ss2). He'll be alright against ss bra.

Brother, go read the Vegeta Cell fight again.. It was made very clear Cell was holding back massively for Vegeta to keep up, and Vegeta only managed to with with ssj3 because of that, Vegeta directly states this by mocking him with the same line Cell used on Vegeta before.

Cell is above Gohan, who is far above ssj3 tier. For Vegeta to have any sort of chance even against Bra’s ssj1 he would have to go to his new form. Maybe ssj3 could give a fight but would most definitely lose as Bra’s ssj1 is close to Gohan’s power.

And no, the novel’s U18 ssj2 Vegeta = U13 ssj3 Vegeta is not true, simply because DBM has a strict rule that the stronger form can never be surpassed by the weaker form, unless you are a fusion or special in other way (like Bra)
Factually false, novel chapter 148
>Vegeta donned a threatening frown and transformed into Super Saiyan 2, crackles of blue lightning zipping around his body, swirling and kicking dust into the air. The brow-less Saiyan’s chuckle cut off as his ascended counterpart approached him with a determined look, until he was mere inches in front of his face, glaring with defiance. As a Super Saiyan 3, the Saiyan emperor was utterly shocked by what he sensed — Vegeta’s energy as a mere level 2 was possibly a match for his own. There was no comparison between this and the power he’d put on display in the fight with Kakarotto. During Buu’s attack, the Saiyan prince had briefly demonstrated nearly this level, but he now seemed even more serious than then.
Buu said that in order to use the technique that can kill him, you needed both raw power and the ability to disintegrate. Bra can only use said technique in ss2, and vegeta can use it in ss3. They are relatively close to each other.

— That was a large charged attack that Goku was shocked by, which would be stronger than the strength Cell displayed against Bojack. He was clearly more surpressed as a whole when fighting Vegeta, even Vegeta acknowledges this. Plus even if he was less suppressed than his fight with Bojack there's no proof that he was going all out then.

— Their point was that the novelizations Vegeta moment doesn't line up with the comics canon that sayian levels are fairly rigid and aside from fusions and mutations, it's nearly impossible for a lower level to be stronger than another. That's consistent with the comic and the authors statements on the subject. Like when Piccolo claimed an Ssj2 couldn't survive an ultra waver ball, implying no ssj2 could. Quoting the novelization paragraph doesn't disprove the point they're trying to make at all. They're not denying the novelization exists, their point is it's too contradictory to be used as proof here.

— Vegeta could not use that technique in Ssj3. The universe 18 Ssj3s all tried it and Buu condescendingly told them that they needed more power and for it to be disintigrative. You could try to argue that Buu was talking to Gotenks specifically, but Ssj3 Vegeta is not significantly stronger than Gotenks (hell, after their new fusion dance he and Goku should be weaker than Gotenks). If it was only Gotenks doing it wrong he would have said "like what Goku and Vegeta are doing". But he thinks they're all not strong enough to use it. Then Vegetto and Bra used the technique correctly.

Teleported_Bread was saying: King Kindred was saying: Zamanks already believes his fusion time is limited. Why is the Trunks half wasting time by listening to Black's ramblings? He has a Saiyan body. You do not give them time to recover.

There's so much smoke and ki around Black that I can't tell if he lost a leg and part of his face.
oh my god... it's because Goku Black is beaten. And because he has honor, unlike his counterpart who's consumed by his own hatred and ego.

When has that ever stopped Trunks who knows that being "beaten" means nothing unless they're actually killed? Trunks that blew up Dr. Gero's base to prevent 17 and 18 from awakening 16, an android who never did anything in his timeline.

Trunks that killed King Cold after after he was defeated and pleading for his life.

Like come on. Let's be real here. Black has terrorized him and has shown himself to be stronger and more resilient than the one he's used to.

Dicax was saying: The math of the Spirit Bomb has always bothered me. Several billion people, countless plants and fungi with ??? power, all sea life, and the phenomenal ki of house cats = a VERY conservative 10,000,000,000 pool to draw from. Even if you're drawing 1/100th of that power, an exhausted Z fighter's power is a rounding error. An infinitesmally small rounding error at this point in the story. Exhausting your friends who need to back you up when the Spirit Bomb fails is not a good move.
I highly doubt that non-sentient (which does NOT mean non-human-oid) life can share KI (or even has any). I don't think we ever saw it happen.
That still means that you'd get AT LEAST a few dozens or maybe even hundreds of MILLIONS anyways, since an adult male human should be at least a "1".
That's a couple magnitudes less... but we are talking about an enemy measuring in mere THOUSANDS, loool.
Also, ANY Z Fighter in ANY condition at this point in time is merely in the THOUSANDS per person, which is indeed very much a rounding error, loool.

I wonder what he's vibrating

Bombero was saying: Maybe I’m dumb. But shouldn’t she have been sent back to universe 4 alongside buu?

Thats not a bad question to ask.

it is my assumption she is native to u0 by virtue of being made from u0 material, much like buu turning say, u13 vegeta into candy would simply mean kaiser vegeta is just u13 vegeta, but is now candy.

likewise, u0 "anju" is just from u0 having been originally a rock or something buu breathed life into, and remains part of u0 as such.

keep in mind kami was stated to have the power to breathe life into things as well, so its probably just an enhanced version of that ability.

IMHO for what I saw, it seems that something may have have changed everything, aside for Vegeta who may have kept 18.000 like the original counterpart.

Evil team
— Vegeta: 18.000
— Nappa: 4.500 (I don't think he was much stronger than original counterpart. He was the second in charge but a mid elite who already trained himself without too many opportunities to grow more)
— Raditz: 1.950 (he bear the title of weakling but maybe in this universe was much stronger compared to his original power level, potentially have been even trained poorly with Gohan and co.)
— Gohan: 3.500 (max 8.500 when enraged and at his peak)

Good guys
— Tien: 3.100 (he even trained with base Goku who in original canon was 5.000, so in these years without any so special training this was a good level, surpassing his 1.830).
— Krillin: 2.880 (in the original version he was around 1.770 and until Bop's saga he was always below Tien and I doubt that Goku trained him)
— Yamcha: 2.450 (much stronger compared to Raditz and in these years and compared to his original 1.480)
— Jaozi: 1.700 (slightly less stronger than Krillin on original version but training with Tien has paid his fruits)

Rey Vegeta was saying: Piccolo trained Gohan in the original timeline and earned Gohan's respect. Nappa trained Gohan in this timeline, no wonder why Gohan respects him

Also; Piccolo trained Gohan in the original and died defending him.

Nappa Trained Nasu in this timeline and died defending him (though more unintentionally)

Gohan is really good at bringing out the best in mass murderers.

Thiln was saying: Good contrast between the colours of Vegeta and Trunks' ki there.

I agree that Vegeta must be holding back A LOT here. We saw him holding his own against a Cell who was strong enough to boast an advantage against Ultimate Gohan.

Vegeta is homding back here, but so was Cell. He was playing with his food, got baited and killed by lucky shot (SSJ3 Vegeta is still weaker than Cell).

Although, USSJ might be cery close in terms of strength to SSJ2 transformation. It just sucks at speed.

Oh hey, Videl saved Gohan for once. Also why does this Android seem significantly stronger than the others in that it seems to destroy them in only one blow? Was that mention earlier and I missed it?

brolyhater was saying: geta had to bluff Gero into running, Android 19 had drained a lot of energy from him. If Gero decided to fight Vegeta right there Vegeta would've lost. This is stated in the manga.

That is only because he was too busy flexing by letting 19 drain him. What if he took it seriously and just beat 19 without that? Then he probably would've beaten 20 too.

Ammar was saying: This page remind me how dumb was Dr. Gero for not helping Android 19 against SSJ Vegeta. There was a chance they could kill him if they jumped him.
Vegeta would have EASILY won against both, he EMBARASSED android 19 and gero is not even pre kami fusion piccolo level

kcheeb was saying: Philsdesign was saying: Cosmichero was saying: 仅是剑客 was saying: The Gohan's character is weird, like he didn't know conquer Earth meant he would have to fight against his mother.

I think Gohan blocked out the memories he had on Earth, as a defense mechanism so he could survive in a world where he needed to commit atrocities or die.

He knew where he came from, but his feeling and memories only came back when he heard his mother.

That still doesn't make sense

Gohan couldn't stand his mom (literally asked if he could live with Bulma post Namek) and barely had any bond with his father (by the age of 16 Goku was absent for over 10 years). Both barely knew or cared for Gohan, Chichi was the definition of a tiger mom who made him study 24/7 without caring what he actually wanted and Goku a deadbeat who viewed Gohan as a mini him and again didn't care about his interests (the only actual time they ever spent together was training)

The true parental figure was Piccolo. In every adaptation this is shown and he is the one that effectively raised Gohan to be who he grew into

That never happened here, Nappa took that role and raised him to be a bloodthirsty killer, empathy and emotions are weak and so on.

Nasu doing a 180 like this makes no sense unless he either says he'll do it faster, plans to steal leadership from Vegeta (so be a true saiyan) or just goes full Omniman and says Earth isn't theirs to conquer
Chichi wasn't tiger mom yet at that age Gohan was 4

I think she only made him study stafting age 5

Goku told the others he wasn't allowed to train Gohan at all and Chichi had him studying all the time when introducing him.

Chichi effectively made Gohan study from birth and it showed. Gohan wasn't pleased to see her after his year with Piccolo and literally asked Bulma if he could live at capsule Corp with the Namekians after Namek

The person Gohan formed a parental bond with was Piccolo. The person he shared with and who truly understood him was Piccolo

If that bond has been formed with Nappa instead it could mean Nappa sides with him here (just like Piccolo "turned good" too). Though a true saiyan version wouldn't be side with earthlings but instead usurp control from Vegeta and become the new leader and conquer Earth for himself

Ammar was saying:
Ah yes, Goku never cared for his son, which is why he saved him multiple times & sacrificed himself twice to save his life. -_- But yeah, sure! Piccolo who kidnaped him and abused him is his true father. xD

Pretty much yes, Goku never cared about Gohan on a personal level, which is why he had no idea what Gohan wanted in life, knew nothing of his personality and so on. It's why he threw him at Cell thinking Gohan was a crazed battle thirsty warrior like himself and needed Piccolo to literally tell him who is son actually was.

Goku also abandoned his family to train in space for 2,5 years (could have been brought back but refused), then again for 7 years to fight people in the afterlife (could have been revived but refused), then missed all gatherings for 5+ years to train and then finally abandoned his family to live with Uub. Heck, look at DB, it lasted over 10 years but Goku saw everyone for a few weeks total (except the year training with Krillen) the rest of the time he was gone for literally years at a time. Goku saving people doesn't somehow negate him constantly disappearing for years on end and knowing pretty much nothing about any of them on a personal level outside of powerlevels

King Kindred was saying: Yeah, the art has been phenomenal in this story. I would love a DBM special from the artist if there hasn't been one already.
The artist is "Chibi Dam'Z" who has drawn
Chapter 16 from DBM, but that was 14 years ago. Here is his DeviantArt Account if anyone is interested.

It's true, he improved a lot with his art. It looks really great, but the story just isn't for me, since it's about DBS. And I think it's widely known by now, how I think about anything DBS related. ;P

Ngl not a fan of the Vegeta nerfing. He’s been one of the most consistent/well written characters in the story. They could even give him his own redemption arc. For him to just get passed by Raditz sucks.

The other glaring point is how was Raditz not able to affect South Kai who’s clearly possessed. XXI obviously has extremely sinister magic.

Ammar was saying: Okay, this is really starting to piss me off... What's the point of this if Raditz is gonna be the butt of the joke again???

MrPerson0 was saying: Of course Raditz isn't even close to being as strong as him. Wonder if XXI secretly gave South Supreme Kai a boost as well.
I seriously want to know why a lot of people have this mindset? Obviously Salagir share this mindset (much to my annoyance -_-) but I need to know why people believe that no matter what Raditz does, he won't reach the level of Goku and Vegeta.

Didn't we all watch DBZ? Didn't we see Raditz ko'ed Goku with one hit (something that never happened before in the anime)? Didn't two of the strongest people on earth (at that time) join together to take him out and they miserably failed? Didn't Raditz was about to win if Gohan didn't interfered and saved his dad? Didn't Goku, the main character sacrificed himself in order to take Raditz out?

Does that make Raditz a joke or a serious villain like Vegeta and the others? And power wise, if Goku who was a lot weaker than Raditz could reach the highests of SSJ3 and beyond, then why can't Raditz?

It's this mindset that Raditz is a weakling that decided what we see in this page, not from story and character perspective.

Yes, Raditz is a character with a lot of wasted potential (he is the main character's evil brother, who was also much stronger than him with much less training, as someone wrote above, and, why not, he could have had a redemptiom arc if better used by Toryiama!).

I agree that he should be seen as a threat as much as Vegeta, because of how he broke Dragon Ball's power scale in the beginning of DBZ.

I particularly blame TFS and their DBZ Abridged series for turning Raditz into a joke (same applies to Yamcha). Of course, DBZA is fun and made a lot of people laugh back then (myself included) but it kinda took more room into the "fandom subconscious mind" than it should (IMHO)


Now for this page: maybe the mental block does not apply to "good people", but is specifically aimed to Kayoshins? The old Kayoshin knows that there are probably Kayoshins in his universe, so perhaps he blocked Raditz against his kind, in order for them to easily neutralize him, if such need arises.

Ah, yes. Clearly the venerable elder Kaioshin who (relatively) couldn't hurt a fly interfering with the integrity of your sporting match is the problem here. Not the evil-looking fog monster who you've already been warned eats universes, who easily overpowered one of your strongest competitors, and who already broke the tournament rules against Gast...

Hopefully this is a purposeful bait-and-switch, and the South Kaioshin isn't actually THAT stupid...

MUI was saying: Can Salagir tell us how strong this Perfect Cell is compared to the one we know?
Probably equivalent. Nothing says Cell was strong because he had the DNA of fighters. His secondary traits like regeneration and survivability are determined by them but not his power.
He's likely as strong as he was when he maxed out against SSJ2 Gohan.
Not that it matters Vs Gast as he states his magic works on living beings, which the androids and Cell classify as so even if Gast is only as strong as Android 16, he can still win.

The Mighty Hyena was saying: One point of conflict I have here is why would Goku not attempt to contact Gohan from Otherworld?

I don't see why Goku wouldn't go to Kaiosama's planet regardless. If not King Kai, perhaps Kamisama could have enabled him to talk to him, or even Baba.

Now, if Goku has been revived somehow, that would be a different deal.

Did he contact Gohan or Trunks in the Future? No? That's what I thought.

For sure they'll meet some unexpected resistance there, but who may that be.

Piccolo still alive? The androids? Why would Gero bother if there was no Goku around. The Z-Fighters are all still alive, so maybe they'll unite against the Saiyans? I'm pretty sure Bulma and Krillin, and Chichi of all people, will play an important role here.

brolyhater was saying: well given that the author already accidentally spoiled the ending, this isn't going to work
When and where did the author "accidentally" spoiled the ending? The only thing that should be clear is, that this story happens before the DBM tournament and it shows how Broly landed in that block of ice.

So, Gohan became evil? And why he is wearing armor from earth?

Can't imagine Janemba's purpose here other than keeping Buu busy.

If Buu absorbs him, he probably is powerful enough to overtake Gohan's dominance and corrupt Buu. That fighter would be trouble for Gogeta

They told Buu to make sure Gohan was the dominant personality, but by power alone, Gohan should be. But Janemba is probably stronger.

U7 Gohan and U7 Goku were probably killed by U7 ssj Vegeta, because U7 Vegeta never got redeemed.

Damian Qualshy was saying: Did Bulma and Krillin get together in this one?U7 Marron (U7 Krillin's daughter) was show on the first panel of page 2429, which means that U7 Krillin romanced U7 Bulma.

ssss was saying: Bulma could get bred, good lordIf by "Bulma could get bred" you mean someone having children with U7 Bulma, well, U7 Marron (U7 Krillin's daughter) was show on page 2429, which means that U7 Marron's parents are U7 Krillin and U7 Bulma, because U7 Yamcha is dead and U7 Vegeta never got redeemed. It was either that or U7 Krillin romanced U7 Android 18.

Shabby was saying: Nail is gonna do some pounding.U7 Marron (U7 Krillin's daughter) being show on this U7 special means that U7 Bulma was romanced by U7 Krillin. Besides, U7 Gast's genderless Warrior Type Namekian body does not have the necessary parts to mate with U7 Bulma.

thebritwriter was saying: two kids running around, being a distraction or possibly ruining research by tripping on wires.I think that allowing U7 Marron (U7 Krillin's daughter) to play with another kid inside the headquarters of the resistance is still better than allowing her to play outside where she could get killed by the U7 Androids.

MysticGoober was saying: brolyhater was saying: TrunksTheMighty was saying: Sayazur was saying: Why can't Gogeta ssj3 manage to one-shot Broly, even though the latter is weaker than during the tournament?
In fact, by default, Gogeta is weaker than Vegetto (the manga clearly states that potara fusion is more effective and powerful than classic fusion).
What's more, Vegetto has had several years to improve and stand up to a much stronger Broly in ssj2. Gogeta has only a short time and less power (especially as Gokû and Vegeta have already tired themselves out).

The manga doesn't suggest any such thing. It's a flawed interpretation of words that lead a lot of people down this path of ignorance. It's stated Potara is better because it is permanent and it is instant. It doesn't require practice and it doesn't need power level matching.


IT IS NOT STRONGER. It never was it never WILL be and now it's far inferior due to retcons so you can believe that crap all you want but it will never be true.

Yeah you're malding. Potara IS superior because of what you mentioned. The fact that you don't need to power level match is a huge upside over the fusion dance, what are you talking about

There is also the fact that buuhan is aware of the fusion dance and still claims even if they fuse they would be no match for him, the retconning only making them evenly matched, though it’s unknown in which facets, with energy usage also always shown to limit even fusion dance but now unknown in comparison to the energy cap of potara.

Buu wouldn't even know how powerful the Metamoran fusion would really make them. His only point of view is Goten and Trunks with their tiny powers making Gotenks who can beat his Super Buu ass. I think he was just coping, because there's no way Goku and Vegeta with the same power boost as Gotenks wouldn't surpass Buuhan anyway.


Also energy usage limited fusion dance only for SS3 Gotenks and SS4 Gogeta. Both Super Gogeta and even Blue Gogeta didn't defuse early. However, the one who did defuse, was Vegetto Blue. So let's not think about that because it's GT and Super and neither Sayazur nor Salagir take it into account when writing.