Always hated the androids in the mirai timeline. Must confess I felt some satisfaction when Cell got both of them. Just little crazy kids wasting everyone on the planet for shits and giggles...

Come on Farmer! Save us!

SeanPaul2389 was saying: FishNChips was saying: Always hated the androids in the mirai timeline. Must confess I felt some satisfaction when Cell got both of them. Just little crazy kids wasting everyone on the planet for shits and giggles...

... but those two weren't the mirai androids.

That's the strange part is how they turned out different.

DrewSaga was saying: True, as a character Goku's last good character arc was when he got SSJ...

Mary Bra was saying: You know, when you consider the fact that the original premise of this comic was the idea of seeing a bunch of what if match-ups and cool concepts come to life, it's more than a little ironic and just a bit annoying that the longest, most detailed, and best fight in the comic is also the most milque-toast and basic fight in all of DB. Goku vs Vegeta has been done to death. They've fought like 4 or 5 times already in Canon? Not to mention all the side material like games or other drawings/fanfics. The fight is the most iconic or second most iconic behind Goku vs Frieza. We get it, they are rivals. Gast got no diffed by Buu in 2 pages but we get chapters of Goku vs Vegeta.
Goku and Vegeta only fought two times in canon. One in the Saiyan saga whereas Vegeta was winning before Gohan and Krillin interrupted the fight. The other one happened in the Buu Saga which it ended with no contest (no, Vegeta knocking out Goku is not part of the fight).

Also, DBM is about what-if and cool concepts. But it's also a fan-service. ;)

Static was saying: Yes, Gohan just killed someone...

In the part of the series where the Kamehameha literally never killed anyone.

The most used attack in the series that has only ever killed one character.

i remember 4 named Characters killed by goku useing it: Octopapa (red ribbon arc, DB), Tambourine (DB), Frieza (DBS, Golden Frieza), Copy Vegeta (DBS, not sure if it is filler)

Remember when Yamcha fought Kami in disguise and he got hit in the crotch because Kami 'ducked'? Don't tell me Krillin's gonna do that and win.

Also, Gohan can't be that tough, he got killed by a Great Ape Goku with a PL of 20 in the DBM verse (Where start of DB Goku has a PL of 10 and Oozaru is only a 2x multiplier in DBM or something lol)

how'd krilin pass this guy in the Z again?

Guys we do know that in OG Dragon Ball that nudity was quite common and used for gags like how many times we saw this stuff? Quite a lot so really the whole Lan-Fan thing was "Ah bringing back OG Dragon Ball humour?

...this tournament is supposed to take place during the time where the nudity was at it's most extreme back then.

It's good. It's an exploration of what Roshi was actually doing when trying to get ladies. It's funny and it's actually less bad than OG DB (and super) because here he's trying stuff and getting shut down as opposed to actually fondling and peeping underaged girls..

SuperSaiyan4Vegetto was saying: Uub his first real challenge, his victory felt really un-earned. Uub knocked him out for a while and he managed to get up before Uub did. That's kind of lame.

If was a reference to the 21st World Martial Arts Tournament. The exact same thing happened in the finals between Goku and Roshi, only Goku was on the losing end of it.

Crow was saying: This is like the 3rd or 4th time you guys made a "wow a character from the story is aware of how bad the writing is" joke. It's not funny anymore, it's just kinda sad.

It's 4th wall breaking comedy. That Varga has been shown to be something of an audience stand-in. Furthermore, they played on this belief and subverted it in an amazing way. All of this is something Dragon Ball, and Toriyama in-general, does constantly. It fits perfectly within a fan comic of Dragon Ball and is in no way the author actually commenting on the writing being bad.

No SSJ.

No Beam Struggle.

Just pure martial arts like OG Dragon Ball.

Perfection.

...but this just seems much faster than MG was ever portrayed.

I know this strategy is like a meme now, especially cause of TFS...

Static was saying:
The fact that fights were too fast for people to see anything hasn't been a thing since Gohan learned how to sense ki, it was funny once and it served a purpose in another instance, but it would've been redundant to keep drawing attention to it.

I have to disagree with this. Goku was moving so much faster than Burter and Jeice that from their perspective he looked like he was standing still. No one except Vegeta could follow intial final form Frieza's movements and attacks. Everyone but Gohan had trouble following Goku vs Cell. The humans could barely see any of it. Yes the normal humans can see when they're standing still, or charging an attack, but they cannot register the melee exchanges. In DB, if you're more powerful, you're faster, and your opponent has a harder time following your movements. It has literally always been a thing. The fights are slowed down for us as the readers, we get the perspective of the combatants. Otherwise the fights would be pointless for us to read.

The only "weird" part is that technically EVERY dbz fight should be this fast, fast enough to outspeed a drop of water. So this being so fast it's faster than the drop is actually not that big a deal -- but we can accept the idea it's giving, that it's super fast, still. We're just seeing it, as viewers, at regular speed now.

This is better than Ultra Ego and True Ultra Instinct (ugh, TUI's name alone) EVER will be

I dunno, I've read this a few times but it's not like Goku and Vegy are really the creative type to begin with.

...unless the artist is trying to say Goku booked it in the moment Vegeta let go and drew back to—irrationally—strike with the same hand he was using to grab...

It's interesting to see the writers put together these scenes without any dialogue. The details are just so much more pronounced

Kyan Zennaro was saying:
As Totally Not Mark once said: Vegeta is at his best when he is dominating, styling over his opponent, while Goku is always at his best when he is on the backfoot, coming up with cunning strategies to compensate for the gap in power that he always had to face
I think that's mostly noticing things that aren't there though tbh. A lot of DBZ youtubers do this and I think it's one of the biggest traps creative people can fall into. Where they take something that isn't that good like DBZ and star wars and then worship it like its some masterpiece of creativity and then they proceed to dissect it in hyper amounts of detail and worship everything it did and in the process make up "rules" in fiction that aren't real rules at all and just limit the potential of stories.

A character who never struggles with no motivations other than wanting to have fun is in short a very boring character.

That moment when throwing dirt in Zarbon's eyes was filler iirc couldn't find that scan in my reread of the Vegeta vs Zarbon fight. And since when is transforming cheating? That'd be like saying Kakarot cheated when he fought Android 19. But I digress tho.

To those saying this is out of character for Vegeta this is how he acts when he has a grudge against his opponent.

well, ki sensing would be hard to learn, and it took 3 years or just about (give or take) for goku to learn that. vegeta learned it in seconds.

So, living with Goku most than 30 years and training with him around 10 years isnt enough to understand the tecnique? Cell learned it when Goku used on him. Buu learned only observing. What makes you think that Vegeta couldn't learn too?

*عمار*
>Well, if these two would've stopped playing around, I wouldn't made such a comment every page. How am I supposed to take this seriously when Vegeta is messing around with his SSJ2 or Cell not getting serious yet?

I know it can be boring to most people, but if Vegeta were to win this match, would you like him to win like Deus Ex machina, just beating the shit out of cell without any logic? I have a feeling that he can, and will win, but he has to make his way to it here.
On the other hand, Thats likely cell to mess around before get serious. He did the same with Trunks, Goku and Gohan. He actually did it with the world giving ten days to prepare for the match.

So far these rounds have been kinda boring, i don't like onesided matches this late in the game.

Redirecting Ki, and doing it in the same way Goku did against Piccolo at the 23rd Budokai.

It's nice how, even though you quote me saying "so it's more interesting," you completely ignore the fact that I said it and go with boring anyway. This isn't me being illogical, it's you ignoring what I said.

Better idea. Ramp it up so it's more interesting.

Doth my eyes deceive me? Is Vegeta actually getting a genuine chance to shine against a powerful and respected opponent?

So the fight is officially over. After all, this is the 5th longest tournament fight. And yet it feels like it's too short.

I mean, Goku and Uub went back and forth pretty good at the start of the fight and Goku was clearly overpowering an Uub that 1-shot Fat Buu.

WHis SSJ3 transformation is a perfect example of this.

DrewSaga was saying:

You really need to get some help. Asura can take care of himself just fine and mostly is really great at drawing but nobody's perfect (no, Cell and Zen Buu aren't neither).

Point is he shouldn't have to. Not gonna get into a huge discussion about it, just offering the counterpoint that he's an amazingly talented artist that should be celebrated, not made fun of.

On the previous page, people kept acting as if the very concept of numbered multipliers was sinful. But the problem is now we have the exact opposite situation, where when the limits of a form's abilities aren't defined, it can be as powerful or as weak as the writer wants it to be, even when it doesn't make sense. Neither method is bad on it's own, it depends on the ability of the writer to maintain consistency. Salagir is not a writer I trust to do that.

The only thing they limit is Toriyama's ability to BS power changes because he can hide behind the numbers not being known, and thus can be anything he wants regardless of logic. This led directly to the Beerus moving goalpost issue, for example; if Toriyama had given him an actual concrete power level, it would have never occurred. Consistent internal logic would not be impossible to include without a concept like this, but Toriyama is absolutely horrible at it without a tool like this to assist him.

Even in the manga, base Vegeta survived a number of hits from an SSJ3 tier fighter and was still conscious and even got back up just a bit later.

If Toriyama had actually kept numerical power levels after Frieza, it would in fact likely reduce these types of occurrences, not make them worse. Toriyama does not think hard about logical power differences, so when he writes stuff like Kid Buu vs Vegeta, he's almost certainly going "well, I'd be badass if Vegeta, even in base, keeps going despite Kid Buu beating him down. If, however, he had numbers written down (whether in the story or just his personal notes), he might go something like (made up numbers, not trying to argue these are what they were) "huh, Base Vegeta is at 20 million and Kid Buu is at 5 billion. That doesn't really make any sense, maybe I should do something else instead".

Didn’t Uub use the candy ray in GT against Bebi?

Super saiyan 3...Does literally destroy your body...It's like an even worse version of kaio ken in that regard

I emphasize with people's frustration over Bras quick forgiveness, but as for Gohan specifically:

Gohan tried to talk no jutsu Cell (iirc)

Z Broly is not a deep character. He's not an interesting character. He's the Evil Saiyan. That's what he was written to be, and that's his appeal. Nothing more, nothing less. He doesn't even have to earn his power, he was just born genetically superior.

As much as Z Broly fanboys shit on Super Broly, there is legitimately an explanation for everything about him, including his return to monke transformation, considering he lived on a planet with three massive moons in full view at all times.

Turbocharger was saying:
Also, what new insight would you want? I don't think any writer is going to make anything a little more complex than just your average sob story. Cue supers version of Broly with his wittle fee fees and the good ol' humanizing. Ugh...

SXA was saying: Turbocharger was saying: Is he talking about the paralysis technique or something? That's the only one I can think of at the moment, but I'm not sure if it would be enough.
He’s talking about Instantaneous Movement: it’s the Instant Transmission without having to lock-on to someone’s ki, that Kibito Kai uses.

Wrong. Instant Transmission (Stupid name) is originally called Instantaneous Movement (literal translation).

Actually the same move, just Funimation's stupid butchered translation - https://dragonball.fandom.com/wiki/Instantaneous_Movement_(disambiguation)

The move you're thinking of is - https://dragonball.fandom.com/wiki/Kai_Kai

Superman55aa was saying: Did everyone suddenly forget...or is that a sliding slope of doom that escape my notice.


What I am saying here is. Everyone has now be stricken with the idiot ball and no one is doing anything about it.


TELEPATHY


IDIOTS!
what about it?
i mean, at this point any character that CAN do telepathy isn't strong enough to hold down broly, and hell most of the z-fighters show no signs of knowing telepathy (if you say goku then no that was filler, so it wasn't canon)

The Big Gete Star was saying: "You need to bla bla bla..."
I get that they're setting up for some secret plan that the audience isn't supposed to know about, but that's just lazy. There's definitely a better way to structure that that isn't this on-the-nose or bad.

I think its a callback to when AT did this in his manga. they did this in the cell saga.


so this is probably a call back to this and other spots like it.

Static was saying: The strand of hair depicting Ultimate is a Super only thing

Lol no. He had it vs Super Buu.

MetaKrule was saying: God ultimate gohan mad charge at broly and broly wasn't even aware of gohan and it still barely did any damage to broly
That wasn't ultimate gohan. Ultimate gohan has a strand of hair that goes down his face. That's just base gohan.

but Goku has gone to Supreme Kai’s world on his own.

no plot conveniences

You can tell this is fanfiction because this makes Broly WAY too effective a villain. Kid Buu was like this, but there were a shitload of episodes leading up to that.

i agree fully, hell i'll even back it up, there were entire CHAPTERS of filler for DB, DBZ, and such coming out every week, and still fans bought and read those chapters cause they wanted the FULL STORY. they didn't want to just see fights, they wanted to see bonds form, funny moments, if all of DBZ was about fighting and only fighting, the series wouldn't be the SECOND MOST POPULAR ANIME IN THE WORLD CURRENTLY

so yes kay i agree with your statement fully, having pages and chapters like this add to the story and the suspense and tension, it makes us feel more like we're actually there!

This is called storytelling

Static was saying:It's funny how Vegeta didn't need to push the blame because nobody demanded that he answers for what he had done to begin with. He was forgiven by heroes, especially Goku.

Fun fact: Vegetto, being composed of one person who committed crimes and another person who forgave the first one, is essentially a person who committed crimes and forgave himself.

And if we're talking about poetic justice, then feelings DO matter, because that's the point, the character does something bad and they feel crappy afterwards, doesn't matter "how". It's just that Bra has enough decency so getting beaten up isn't a prerequisite for her to feel bad.

Nah, I'd rather prefer to see her having a little talk with each of the people that she killed.

It's one thing when the character gets beaten up until they get the message. It's entirely another when they get beaten up after they already got the message. The first may feel deserved, the latter is an overkill.

When Freeza, Cell and others kicked his ass, they were doing it for their own pleasure, not justice. They weren't punishing Vegeta for his crimes.

Essentially, retcon is short for retroactive continuity.
It's when a part of canon is changed or removed, meaning it is no longer valid, or is now actively contradicted by newer stuff.

We dont know exactly what Babidi's spell does entirely.

For a lot of reasons, one is that it would signal that if we make noise in the comments, he will cave. He shouldn't. He's a creative, creating his work, and subjecting it to criticism. I hope he gets satisfaction out of telling the story that he wants. And to be fair, look at how free we are to say things like we don't like this. I have to give my man, Salagir, massive respect for that. That's some awesome maturity.

Hercule was saying: And if you think Toritama was above contradictions and retcons, ask yourself what happened to Launch as a character entirely, Goten and Trunks' tails, and how many fingers Piccolo has, just to name a few.