J.I.L was saying: Damian Qualshy was saying: beeruz was saying: South_Ferry was saying: What do you guys think of Goku winning the tournament against xxi in the end? Because it looks like Gast will lose this

It is both cliche and fitting for this manga, it would be a true celebration of dragon ball. Goku finding out how to save the day like he always does, it would be cool.
Goku is the main character after all so I would enjoy it.All of these alternative universe's wouldn't exist without him or him being altered in some way(except for 2 and 5) so maybe the could explore that point more.

Except for 1-3, 7, 9 and 10*. And maybe 13 and 19?
Universe 7 exist because of Raditzs going to earth for Goku. Which led to them knowing about the dragon balls, and eventually all heading to namek creating U7.

Universe 9 exist because Cooler's ship destroy Goku in his pod heading to earth.

U13 exist because Kakarot never hit his head.

Universe 19 exist because raditzs killed Goku, piccolo and Gohan.

All 3 backstories DBM has done a MEDICORE job in actually fleshing out, might I add.

What happened to U7 earth and the z fighters? U7 Vegeta?

How did raditzs kill goku, piccolo and gohan? What ended up happening to the rest of u19 earth?

How did Vegeta and his sayain crew serve under Cooler in U9?

So much story, little fleshed out.

So "universe exists because there's no Goku" (9 and 19) somehow goes in line with "most universes exist because Goku is there"?
Also I thought 19 is the same as 13 but the Saiyans simply lost, was there a novel?

jakebk19 was saying: Damian Qualshy was saying: jakebk19 was saying: mpty was saying: wow what a reveal. I always wondered what happened to janemba. I think this is definelty more of a summon than like raichi than the true identity of XXI.

Also this doesn't technically mean Gogeta movie happened in DBM. U5 split from the other universes way before the frieza era (from minicomic). I was always under the impression U5 split way before the current supreme kai era so even before Kid Buu first appearance but I dont know if that is confirmed anywhere. This just means the concept of Janemba exists in all the universes and that this XXI has a version of Janemba.

Because Janemba is just defined as “the pure incarnation of evil” or what not I think he is just made out of whatever evil energy XXI has found. Like in fusion reborn the demon kid becomes Janemba because of all the energy that flows into him, so Janemba need not exist in his actual Janemba form - he’s just a crap ton of evil energy (so I believe).

The way that the black smoke XXI creates coalesces into Janemba tells me that XXI is super proficient at controlling this energy, as well as being a mass of evil himself (also his dragon or whatever). I think he’ll summon kid buu next, and like babidi he’ll probably take advantage of the negativity of a lot of warriors in the tournament, when it comes to that, and could give a plausible way for Goku, a pure hearted warrior, to have a chance against XXI. Getting REALLY speculative all the ways that XXI won using cheap tricks is because of insecurities specific to the loser. Vegito fears being away from bra, send him to another dimension. 18 seems to be, below the surface, resentful of her android identity - make use of that through the remote. Buu literally calls his cocoon form his only weakness. Maybe XXI will win this fight by making use of Gast’s desire to sustain the Namekian race.

Vegetto afraid of being away from Bra..?
W h a t




Grydon was saying:
How do you come to the conclusion of him being a beatstick to Gast, or that he’s stronger than Hatchiyak? Power wise we haven’t seen Gast do anything more than a regular ssj3, when he was fighting evenly against SSJ3 Vegeta. And Janemba in the movie was beating ssj3 Goku so that alone would make it a fair fight already. But this is not the movie Janemba, and you put this version of Janemba above even Hatchiyak that Gast fought, who was in the Vegito tier powers according to the novel - its powerscaling is a bit wonky at times I know, but we know Hatchiyak has the combined power of all the Ghosts, and Raichi had lots of strong fighters, the strongest being SSJ3 Vegeta and just as strong if not stronger Broly, so Hatchiyak being ssj1 Vegito tier doesn’t sound that crazy. And let’s not forget, Gast was struggling hard and only won because he caught him off guard and used a concentrated blast with full force. So stating Janemba is even stronger than Hatchiyak, but still is a beatstick for Gast is a bit weird assumption.

Gast’s magic has shown to immobilize Buu, and shut off transformations of Saiyans, but we don’t know if either of those can be used on solid creatures with no additional powerups. Can he zap the power of any creature? He didn’t do that to Hatchiyak, and at that point it wasn’t about holding back to find a challenge, he was in serious trouble.

I think Janemba will give Gast trouble with its powers, but Gast is able to beat him with his magic somehow, only for XXI to reveal either a new being which then defeats Gast, or he will reveal himself to beat Gast.
Because of movie placement of Hatchiyak and Janemba relative to the Anime timeline. Hatchiyak was defeated by Cell Saga Goku, Vegeta, Trunks, Gohan and Piccolo. Janemba was throwing MBS SS3 Goku and SS2 Vegeta around, until they fused and overpowered him in literally one move.

If Gast was SS1 Vegetto level, he shouldn't have any issues with ghost SS3 Emperor Vegeta or ghost LSSJ Broly.

And how is it weird stating that Janemba is more powerful than Hatchiyak? Why would XXI pull out a weaker entity with no additional powers?

Vegito’s top fear is bra losing control. Getting him away from her allows her to wreak havoc in that event. Idk what I need to say to get this to you

XXI got rid of Vegetto because that was the only way, not because of his fears.

jakebk19 was saying: mpty was saying: wow what a reveal. I always wondered what happened to janemba. I think this is definelty more of a summon than like raichi than the true identity of XXI.

Also this doesn't technically mean Gogeta movie happened in DBM. U5 split from the other universes way before the frieza era (from minicomic). I was always under the impression U5 split way before the current supreme kai era so even before Kid Buu first appearance but I dont know if that is confirmed anywhere. This just means the concept of Janemba exists in all the universes and that this XXI has a version of Janemba.

Because Janemba is just defined as “the pure incarnation of evil” or what not I think he is just made out of whatever evil energy XXI has found. Like in fusion reborn the demon kid becomes Janemba because of all the energy that flows into him, so Janemba need not exist in his actual Janemba form - he’s just a crap ton of evil energy (so I believe).

The way that the black smoke XXI creates coalesces into Janemba tells me that XXI is super proficient at controlling this energy, as well as being a mass of evil himself (also his dragon or whatever). I think he’ll summon kid buu next, and like babidi he’ll probably take advantage of the negativity of a lot of warriors in the tournament, when it comes to that, and could give a plausible way for Goku, a pure hearted warrior, to have a chance against XXI. Getting REALLY speculative all the ways that XXI won using cheap tricks is because of insecurities specific to the loser. Vegito fears being away from bra, send him to another dimension. 18 seems to be, below the surface, resentful of her android identity - make use of that through the remote. Buu literally calls his cocoon form his only weakness. Maybe XXI will win this fight by making use of Gast’s desire to sustain the Namekian race.

Vegetto afraid of being away from Bra..?
W h a t




Grydon was saying:
How do you come to the conclusion of him being a beatstick to Gast, or that he’s stronger than Hatchiyak? Power wise we haven’t seen Gast do anything more than a regular ssj3, when he was fighting evenly against SSJ3 Vegeta. And Janemba in the movie was beating ssj3 Goku so that alone would make it a fair fight already. But this is not the movie Janemba, and you put this version of Janemba above even Hatchiyak that Gast fought, who was in the Vegito tier powers according to the novel - its powerscaling is a bit wonky at times I know, but we know Hatchiyak has the combined power of all the Ghosts, and Raichi had lots of strong fighters, the strongest being SSJ3 Vegeta and just as strong if not stronger Broly, so Hatchiyak being ssj1 Vegito tier doesn’t sound that crazy. And let’s not forget, Gast was struggling hard and only won because he caught him off guard and used a concentrated blast with full force. So stating Janemba is even stronger than Hatchiyak, but still is a beatstick for Gast is a bit weird assumption.

Gast’s magic has shown to immobilize Buu, and shut off transformations of Saiyans, but we don’t know if either of those can be used on solid creatures with no additional powerups. Can he zap the power of any creature? He didn’t do that to Hatchiyak, and at that point it wasn’t about holding back to find a challenge, he was in serious trouble.

I think Janemba will give Gast trouble with its powers, but Gast is able to beat him with his magic somehow, only for XXI to reveal either a new being which then defeats Gast, or he will reveal himself to beat Gast.
Because of movie placement of Hatchiyak and Janemba relative to the Anime timeline. Hatchiyak was defeated by Cell Saga Goku, Vegeta, Trunks, Gohan and Piccolo. Janemba was throwing MBS SS3 Goku and SS2 Vegeta around, until they fused and overpowered him in literally one move.

If Gast was SS1 Vegetto level, he shouldn't have any issues with ghost SS3 Emperor Vegeta or ghost LSSJ Broly.

And how is it weird stating that Janemba is more powerful than Hatchiyak? Why would XXI pull out a weaker entity with no additional powers?

wow what a reveal. I always wondered what happened to janemba. I think this is definelty more of a summon than like raichi than the true identity of XXI.

Also this doesn't technically mean Gogeta movie happened in DBM. U5 split from the other universes way before the frieza era (from minicomic). I was always under the impression U5 split way before the current supreme kai era so even before Kid Buu first appearance but I dont know if that is confirmed anywhere. This just means the concept of Janemba exists in all the universes and that this XXI has a version of Janemba.