Monster was saying: Bardock messing with the original timeline by preventing Babidis death created this change in the vision.Or is it? XXI absorbed Universe 5, which I think would probably include absorbing the U5 versions of ancient beings such as Babidi, Bibidi, Janemba, Dabura and Elder Kai.

In addition, XXI's stomach was destroyed by Vegetto, which I think it may have released/summoned any plot relevant U5 beings that XXI had absorbed, thus I think that probably an U5 Babidi could appear to get killed by a Gohan in a similar way to how it was show in Bardock's vision.

Thiln was saying: But really, Gast aside, how many Namekians would still be alive? I'd be surprised if Moori and the assistants of the Varga showed up in-tact.If U1 Moori had died then the U1 Dragon Balls would be inert, however those Dragon Balls were show to actually not be inert on that Bardock's vision that shows a broken Dragon Ball.

Majin Wasabi was saying: Poor Trunks, nobody thinks about him.I hope that after the DBM post-tournament events happen that either:
— A) Future Trunks asks the U18 Z Fighters about the coordinates/location of New Namek and then uses his (Future Trunk's) universe Porunga's powers to fix/save Future Trunks's universe.
— B) Future Trunks finds the planet where U12 Poran's creator (or his Namekian descendants) lives and then uses Poran's powers for carefully worded wishes to try to fix/save Universe 12. Even if it turned out that Poran could not resurrect the dead, I think that Poran probably could still cause Humans and Dragon Clan Namekians to be created/born on U12 Planet Earth.
— C) Both A) and B) happen.

Northeal was saying: XXI, U18, U13, and U14 are all active and plotting evil.I think that on DBM that U18 is the universe where the more heroic Z Fighters are from.

ZenBuu was saying: Here is the fixed version, because Son Bra had a ponytail in Bardock's vision. 😜
Thank you.

Northeal was saying: Kind of a weird place to end off but the chapter's already 27 pages so can't say it's unreasonable at all. And the Gast side chapters have been pretty fun. I do wonder what the flashback chapter will be. Maybe the Vegetto Gast catchup but I don't know what else there is to show for them.

So we know the remains of U16 and 18 are here working together. XXI, U18, U13, and U14 are all active and plotting evil. Cell is active and gone rogue. Gast and Vegetto are seperated and unknown but probably still active. This leaves the U1 Kais, U12, U19 Heliots, the Cell Jrs., Raditz, and Mary Sue (who I doubt will be involved in this). I'm very curious to see what is done with them, particularly Cell, Raditz, Vegetto, and the Jrs., since we don't really know where they stand here or what they'll do from this point on.

The flash back chapter is called "The Legend of XXI," so I assume its his origin story? Which seems like it could classified more a a special than a flashback I suppose, but really most if not all of the specials are "flashbacks."

I am confident that NSSJ Vegeta is stronger than mystic Gohan. Not only based on his absolute shellacking of Cell who was ~ equal, but als the fact that he had Son Bra in SSJ holding a knife to his throat and without hesitation threatened to kill her. IMO, this isn’t even particularly close based on his actions, comments and feats

With the unveiling of SSJ0, isn’t Vegeta stronger than Gohan now?

Serpent God was saying: >Vegeta donned a threatening frown and transformed into Super Saiyan 2, crackles of blue lightning zipping around his body, swirling and kicking dust into the air. The brow-less Saiyan’s chuckle cut off as his ascended counterpart approached him with a determined look, until he was mere inches in front of his face, glaring with defiance. As a Super Saiyan 3, the Saiyan emperor was utterly shocked by what he sensed — Vegeta’s energy as a mere level 2 was possibly a match for his own. There was no comparison between this and the power he’d put on display in the fight with Kakarotto. During Buu’s attack, the Saiyan prince had briefly demonstrated nearly this level, but he now seemed even more serious than then.


Which chapter was this? I would like to read it!



Northeal was saying: Serpent God was saying: iron leaf was saying: supersaiyan2kakarot was saying: Maybe piccolo can reduce the size of it so it only envelopes over his body (like a layer just pass his skin).

SoyBear was saying: That's what I also assume he did. Just limits it down to a small bubble around him like cell, moves the two, then makes it big again. That sounds very plausible.


Füchsin was saying: Interesting to speculate how Vegeta messures up to Bra with his new form. Just my gut, but I would put him and Goku using their new form somewhere in the Gohan/Cell ballpark. Maybe even higher than Gohan, as, with roughly equal power, they should be the more skilled fighters.
So IMO stronger than her ssj form but significantly weaker than her ssj2, at least her majin ssj2 form.That's exactly what I think when it comes to how strong Vegeta is compared to Son Bra.


Serpent God was saying: ZenBuu was saying: Your nickel was saying: I get that he's enraged, but...Vegeta's willing to kill someone with the same face as his daughter? And Gohan isn't livid at Vegeta threatening Videl?
Better question, how does Vegeta plan to kill Son Bra? I'd like to see how that plays out for him. 🤣

I like both Vegeta and Son Bra, but let's be real. He has no chance against her. If he could instantly transform to NSSJ, he would have a chance against her SSJ, but once she goes SSJ2, it's over for him.

Kyan Zennaro was saying: Your nickel was saying: I get that he's enraged, but...Vegeta's willing to kill someone with the same face as his daughter? And Gohan isn't livid at Vegeta threatening Videl?

U16 Gohan doesnt have glasses, so we havent seen his reaction yet
Well, it doesn't matter if it's U16 or U18 Gohan. As we've seen in the Majin rebellion, both Gohans would do everything to protect Videl. No matter from which universe she's from. But Gohan also knows, that Vegeta would never lay a hand on Videl. Vegeta knows Gohan very well, and he knows exactly what would happen with him then.
Vegeta threw kienzans at cell before the bio android could react. The same cell who reacted to bra's attacks. And vegeta was just in his ss2 too. If we take the novel into account, vegeta in ss2 is about strong as his u13 counterpart in ss3, and his ss3 is strong enough to produce the killing buu attack (which bra can only produce when she's in ss2). He'll be alright against ss bra.It is established that Cell and Vegeta deliberately fought at SSJ2 level. On the one hand, because Cell wanted to force a Zenkai, which, from his point of view, was only possible if he lowered himself to Vegeta's power level. On the other hand, because Vegeta wanted to give Cell a false sense of security so that he could later eliminate Cell with an SSJ3 sucker punch, as Cell would then be at SSJ2 level.

For the very last time. Vegeta in SSJ2 is not as strong as Mystic Gohan / U17 Cell.
By mid fight goku was suprised by cell's power, so he wasn't holding back to his bojak fight levels of power.



Grydon was saying: Serpent God was saying: ZenBuu was saying: Your nickel was saying: I get that he's enraged, but...Vegeta's willing to kill someone with the same face as his daughter? And Gohan isn't livid at Vegeta threatening Videl?
Better question, how does Vegeta plan to kill Son Bra? I'd like to see how that plays out for him. 🤣

I like both Vegeta and Son Bra, but let's be real. He has no chance against her. If he could instantly transform to NSSJ, he would have a chance against her SSJ, but once she goes SSJ2, it's over for him.

Kyan Zennaro was saying: Your nickel was saying: I get that he's enraged, but...Vegeta's willing to kill someone with the same face as his daughter? And Gohan isn't livid at Vegeta threatening Videl?

U16 Gohan doesnt have glasses, so we havent seen his reaction yet
Well, it doesn't matter if it's U16 or U18 Gohan. As we've seen in the Majin rebellion, both Gohans would do everything to protect Videl. No matter from which universe she's from. But Gohan also knows, that Vegeta would never lay a hand on Videl. Vegeta knows Gohan very well, and he knows exactly what would happen with him then.
Vegeta threw kienzans at cell before the bio android could react. The same cell who reacted to bra's attacks. And vegeta was just in his ss2 too. If we take the novel into account, vegeta in ss2 is about strong as his u13 counterpart in ss3, and his ss3 is strong enough to produce the killing buu attack (which bra can only produce when she's in ss2). He'll be alright against ss bra.

Brother, go read the Vegeta Cell fight again.. It was made very clear Cell was holding back massively for Vegeta to keep up, and Vegeta only managed to with with ssj3 because of that, Vegeta directly states this by mocking him with the same line Cell used on Vegeta before.

Cell is above Gohan, who is far above ssj3 tier. For Vegeta to have any sort of chance even against Bra’s ssj1 he would have to go to his new form. Maybe ssj3 could give a fight but would most definitely lose as Bra’s ssj1 is close to Gohan’s power.

And no, the novel’s U18 ssj2 Vegeta = U13 ssj3 Vegeta is not true, simply because DBM has a strict rule that the stronger form can never be surpassed by the weaker form, unless you are a fusion or special in other way (like Bra)
Factually false, novel chapter 148
>Vegeta donned a threatening frown and transformed into Super Saiyan 2, crackles of blue lightning zipping around his body, swirling and kicking dust into the air. The brow-less Saiyan’s chuckle cut off as his ascended counterpart approached him with a determined look, until he was mere inches in front of his face, glaring with defiance. As a Super Saiyan 3, the Saiyan emperor was utterly shocked by what he sensed — Vegeta’s energy as a mere level 2 was possibly a match for his own. There was no comparison between this and the power he’d put on display in the fight with Kakarotto. During Buu’s attack, the Saiyan prince had briefly demonstrated nearly this level, but he now seemed even more serious than then.
Buu said that in order to use the technique that can kill him, you needed both raw power and the ability to disintegrate. Bra can only use said technique in ss2, and vegeta can use it in ss3. They are relatively close to each other.

— That was a large charged attack that Goku was shocked by, which would be stronger than the strength Cell displayed against Bojack. He was clearly more surpressed as a whole when fighting Vegeta, even Vegeta acknowledges this. Plus even if he was less suppressed than his fight with Bojack there's no proof that he was going all out then.

— Their point was that the novelizations Vegeta moment doesn't line up with the comics canon that sayian levels are fairly rigid and aside from fusions and mutations, it's nearly impossible for a lower level to be stronger than another. That's consistent with the comic and the authors statements on the subject. Like when Piccolo claimed an Ssj2 couldn't survive an ultra waver ball, implying no ssj2 could. Quoting the novelization paragraph doesn't disprove the point they're trying to make at all. They're not denying the novelization exists, their point is it's too contradictory to be used as proof here.

— Vegeta could not use that technique in Ssj3. The universe 18 Ssj3s all tried it and Buu condescendingly told them that they needed more power and for it to be disintigrative. You could try to argue that Buu was talking to Gotenks specifically, but Ssj3 Vegeta is not significantly stronger than Gotenks (hell, after their new fusion dance he and Goku should be weaker than Gotenks). If it was only Gotenks doing it wrong he would have said "like what Goku and Vegeta are doing". But he thinks they're all not strong enough to use it. Then Vegetto and Bra used the technique correctly.

You're incorrect about Vegeta being unable to use the technique in SSJ3, you should go back and read the chapter. First of all, it's rather strange just from a narrative standpoint for Goku to be like "Vegeta, that technique is within our reach now", Vegeta agrees with him, they power up to SSJ3, and Buu being visibly surprised when they do the technique, to just have it not work.

Buu also only made that comment to Gotenks about the power requirement when Gotenks was just in SSJ, it's not unreasonable that SSJ3 Goku and Vegeta at this point in the series are stronger than SSJ1 Gotenks. Gotenks powers up to SSJ3 and tries to do it again, but still fails, he doesn't have the technical skill that Goku and Vegeta do to pull off the technique. Gotenks is all power and no brains.

Buu literally was only speaking to Gotenks in the panels where he's talking about the technique, it's very clear that he's mocking and trolling specifically Gotenks, who is a complete joke of a martial artist. Goku and Vegeta don't need these things explained to them because they actually know how to fight.

To the point about SSJ levels being rigid...also untrue, because in the same Buu vs the Multiverse chapter, SSJ3 U13 Vegeta is pretty handily losing to 1 Buu, meanwhile U18 SSJ3 Vegeta has the power and skill to disintegrate Buu, very clear difference in their strength.

Something just occurred to me. I wonder what kind of Zenkai boost Goku and Vegeta have received from their recent fights. Goku and Vegeta beat each other up to the point where they could barely move. Heck, Goku was actually killed by XXI. Bringing a Saiyan back from the dead brings with it a pretty hefty boost.

I still think NSS Vegeta is stronger than Gohan. I'm guessing eventually, Goku and Vegeta will get used to the form to the point where they will only transform into that form. It would make sense because they mentioned before that transforming into the other forms of SSJ possibly shortens their lifespans - plus, the other drawbacks that come with them.

I'm glad they kept Vegeta's no-nonsense attitude. Reformed Vegeta would stand down when someone pointed out it wasn't the time for fighting, or some other reason - but he still would not tolerate someone threatening to kill him, and I don't think he should. Remember, she may look like U18 Bra, but she isn't U18 Bra. Vegeta isn't sentimental like Gohan. He's not going to care, or get upset, about hurting someone from a different universe. He's a little more battle hardened. He cares about his Bra - not this other one.

For those saying Goku moved. He did not. Look at Vegeta's legs. You call still see Goku's legs behind Vegeta in the background. Vegeta is just "in front" of Goku from our viewing angle.



Hick was saying: Piccolo just pulled a Dio and put them on their places.

Love that gif.

I'll give the characterization here some slack as Salagir bounded himself to create a scene where "Piccolo lectures Bra and Vegeta on being civil" with the future vision panel from over 12 years ago. He had a decade to consider the execution but it's a story beat he mostly had to keep.

Northeal was saying: — Vegeta could not use that technique in Ssj3. The universe 18 Ssj3s all tried it and Buu condescendingly told them that they needed more power and for it to be disintigrative. You could try to argue that Buu was talking to Gotenks specifically, but Ssj3 Vegeta is not significantly stronger than Gotenks (hell, after their new fusion dance he and Goku should be weaker than Gotenks). If it was only Gotenks doing it wrong he would have said "like what Goku and Vegeta are doing". But he thinks they're all not strong enough to use it. Then Vegetto and Bra used the technique correctly.
I'm pretty sure Vegeta could use the technique in SSJ3, and Gotenks is the one Buu was lecturing. E.g. on page 2050, Goku and Vegeta are reducing Buu to smoke (as Bra and Vegito had done), but Gotenks is just blasting him away. Buu also clearly expresses surprise when Goku and Vegeta do it.

Gotenks' issue was a lack of skill rather than power.

ZenBuu was saying: Your nickel was saying: I get that he's enraged, but...Vegeta's willing to kill someone with the same face as his daughter? And Gohan isn't livid at Vegeta threatening Videl?
Better question, how does Vegeta plan to kill Son Bra? I'd like to see how that plays out for him. 🤣

I like both Vegeta and Son Bra, but let's be real. He has no chance against her. If he could instantly transform to NSSJ, he would have a chance against her SSJ, but once she goes SSJ2, it's over for him.
I don't think Vegeta thinks he can really win against her, but I also don't think he's the kind of person to just roll over when threatened like this, particularly given how furious he is. He'd probably try to fight even if he knows how it'll go.

I think that would normally be in character for him, but my issue here is that the specific person he's threatening to kill looks identical to the daughter he just lost.

iron leaf was saying: supersaiyan2kakarot was saying: Maybe piccolo can reduce the size of it so it only envelopes over his body (like a layer just pass his skin).

SoyBear was saying: That's what I also assume he did. Just limits it down to a small bubble around him like cell, moves the two, then makes it big again. That sounds very plausible.


Füchsin was saying: Interesting to speculate how Vegeta messures up to Bra with his new form. Just my gut, but I would put him and Goku using their new form somewhere in the Gohan/Cell ballpark. Maybe even higher than Gohan, as, with roughly equal power, they should be the more skilled fighters.
So IMO stronger than her ssj form but significantly weaker than her ssj2, at least her majin ssj2 form.That's exactly what I think when it comes to how strong Vegeta is compared to Son Bra.


Serpent God was saying: ZenBuu was saying: Your nickel was saying: I get that he's enraged, but...Vegeta's willing to kill someone with the same face as his daughter? And Gohan isn't livid at Vegeta threatening Videl?
Better question, how does Vegeta plan to kill Son Bra? I'd like to see how that plays out for him. 🤣

I like both Vegeta and Son Bra, but let's be real. He has no chance against her. If he could instantly transform to NSSJ, he would have a chance against her SSJ, but once she goes SSJ2, it's over for him.

Kyan Zennaro was saying: Your nickel was saying: I get that he's enraged, but...Vegeta's willing to kill someone with the same face as his daughter? And Gohan isn't livid at Vegeta threatening Videl?

U16 Gohan doesnt have glasses, so we havent seen his reaction yet
Well, it doesn't matter if it's U16 or U18 Gohan. As we've seen in the Majin rebellion, both Gohans would do everything to protect Videl. No matter from which universe she's from. But Gohan also knows, that Vegeta would never lay a hand on Videl. Vegeta knows Gohan very well, and he knows exactly what would happen with him then.
Vegeta threw kienzans at cell before the bio android could react. The same cell who reacted to bra's attacks. And vegeta was just in his ss2 too. If we take the novel into account, vegeta in ss2 is about strong as his u13 counterpart in ss3, and his ss3 is strong enough to produce the killing buu attack (which bra can only produce when she's in ss2). He'll be alright against ss bra.It is established that Cell and Vegeta deliberately fought at SSJ2 level. On the one hand, because Cell wanted to force a Zenkai, which, from his point of view, was only possible if he lowered himself to Vegeta's power level. On the other hand, because Vegeta wanted to give Cell a false sense of security so that he could later eliminate Cell with an SSJ3 sucker punch, as Cell would then be at SSJ2 level.

For the very last time. Vegeta in SSJ2 is not as strong as Mystic Gohan / U17 Cell.
By mid fight goku was suprised by cell's power, so he wasn't holding back to his bojak fight levels of power.



Grydon was saying: Serpent God was saying: ZenBuu was saying: Your nickel was saying: I get that he's enraged, but...Vegeta's willing to kill someone with the same face as his daughter? And Gohan isn't livid at Vegeta threatening Videl?
Better question, how does Vegeta plan to kill Son Bra? I'd like to see how that plays out for him. 🤣

I like both Vegeta and Son Bra, but let's be real. He has no chance against her. If he could instantly transform to NSSJ, he would have a chance against her SSJ, but once she goes SSJ2, it's over for him.

Kyan Zennaro was saying: Your nickel was saying: I get that he's enraged, but...Vegeta's willing to kill someone with the same face as his daughter? And Gohan isn't livid at Vegeta threatening Videl?

U16 Gohan doesnt have glasses, so we havent seen his reaction yet
Well, it doesn't matter if it's U16 or U18 Gohan. As we've seen in the Majin rebellion, both Gohans would do everything to protect Videl. No matter from which universe she's from. But Gohan also knows, that Vegeta would never lay a hand on Videl. Vegeta knows Gohan very well, and he knows exactly what would happen with him then.
Vegeta threw kienzans at cell before the bio android could react. The same cell who reacted to bra's attacks. And vegeta was just in his ss2 too. If we take the novel into account, vegeta in ss2 is about strong as his u13 counterpart in ss3, and his ss3 is strong enough to produce the killing buu attack (which bra can only produce when she's in ss2). He'll be alright against ss bra.

Brother, go read the Vegeta Cell fight again.. It was made very clear Cell was holding back massively for Vegeta to keep up, and Vegeta only managed to with with ssj3 because of that, Vegeta directly states this by mocking him with the same line Cell used on Vegeta before.

Cell is above Gohan, who is far above ssj3 tier. For Vegeta to have any sort of chance even against Bra’s ssj1 he would have to go to his new form. Maybe ssj3 could give a fight but would most definitely lose as Bra’s ssj1 is close to Gohan’s power.

And no, the novel’s U18 ssj2 Vegeta = U13 ssj3 Vegeta is not true, simply because DBM has a strict rule that the stronger form can never be surpassed by the weaker form, unless you are a fusion or special in other way (like Bra)
Factually false, novel chapter 148
>Vegeta donned a threatening frown and transformed into Super Saiyan 2, crackles of blue lightning zipping around his body, swirling and kicking dust into the air. The brow-less Saiyan’s chuckle cut off as his ascended counterpart approached him with a determined look, until he was mere inches in front of his face, glaring with defiance. As a Super Saiyan 3, the Saiyan emperor was utterly shocked by what he sensed — Vegeta’s energy as a mere level 2 was possibly a match for his own. There was no comparison between this and the power he’d put on display in the fight with Kakarotto. During Buu’s attack, the Saiyan prince had briefly demonstrated nearly this level, but he now seemed even more serious than then.
Buu said that in order to use the technique that can kill him, you needed both raw power and the ability to disintegrate. Bra can only use said technique in ss2, and vegeta can use it in ss3. They are relatively close to each other.

Makes sense, if he is a galaxy eater.


Though, now I am confused about the Elder Kai, who supposedly knew XXI, but when he saw him he said "oh thats not him". This was too random to be an off-hand joke, so now Im wondering if those are related.



Also, Vegeta is right. Going back to their own universe won't solve a thing. Sooner or later XXi will devour their universes. Might be a million or even a billion years from now. But it will happen. May as well try to face him while you have most of the most powerful beings of all multiverses around to help at the same time.


Northeal was saying: Hello Operator was saying: Noticing that we haven't seen Raditz yet. Fingers crossed we get to see him with the good guys... and not that Salizar no longer liked that plot thread and snipped it off completely.

The fact that he's been seperated from the group makes me think he will either be neutral in this or reluctantly join the good guys. He's like Cell, a wild card who might be evil but will switch alligences depending on what suits his goals. Especially since he can't hurt good people anymore. But at this point he should be inert due to the life stop. He wasn't near any namekians. I wonder how Kakarotto will react to his return and the shake up.

There's no doubt for me that this group will gather as many allies as they can find; Kaioshin's if they are still alive, any remaining Namekians, Uub (somehow), and of course the Vargas because they would have to go to some universes to pick up anyone worth recruiting (Buu perhaps?).

Honestly with this reveal, I feel the story only really is just starting. I can stick around for another fifteen years to see it end :D

Noticing that we haven't seen Raditz yet. Fingers crossed we get to see him with the good guys... and not that Salizar no longer liked that plot thread and snipped it off completely.

Guys, I think XXI might be evil - South Kaioshoin probably

Cell has to know there's a high chance of him being outmatched here. Pretty sure Mystic Gohan slightly outmatches him.

He saw how thoroughly Bra outclassed them.

iron leaf was saying: That means either all of Cell's juniors are dead/frozen, or they've gone in other directions. But it's also cool and evil how Cell doesn't give a damn what happens to his juniors.

It may mean he sent jr's to wake allies up.

Osha was saying: Come on, you can literally read Piccolo's explanation

Piccolo's theory

So, I guess the plotline about Yamcha trying to redeem 17 and 18 is now completely abandoned? It seems pretty clear Universe 9 isn't coming back. So after years of Yamcha trying to turn them to the good, it ends with... nothing? I suppose it makes sense that 17 and 18 are completely irredeemable, but that's still a little disappointing and unfulfilling.

As I have hoped over a decade ago now, there is gonna be a search for the Dragon Balls after the Tournament, although Ialways imagined them getting scattered throughout the multiverse, giving us the chance to see unnexplored Universes.

Oh what a bullshit hypocrite. She plays the victim being touched on her womanly bits, but then complains that male and female bodies should be treated equally?

Northeal was saying: mmmao was saying: I’m still confused about XXI’s raw power level, he’s clearly stronger than Gast, he could easily consume Gast with no effort, I wonder if Vegito is trapped in Gast’s situation (in the smoke), could XXI simply consume the energy of Vegito just like what he did to Gast or Vegito could generate energy beyond XXI’s absorption capacity.

I don't think XXI is stronger than Gast in raw or ki power. Since he used Janemba to wear Gast out to the point of exhaustion. If XXI was stronger than Gast from the start then that whole fight would've been pointless.

He summoned Janemba for cautious reasons, similar to shutting down 18 by the controller. We could clearly see XXI outpowers Gast in the smoke fight, he was able to absorb Gast's attack and consume him effortlessly, I wonder what would Vegito do in this situation.

I’m still confused about XXI’s raw power level, he’s clearly stronger than Gast, he could easily consume Gast with no effort, I wonder if Vegito is trapped in Gast’s situation (in the smoke), could XXI simply consume the energy of Vegito just like what he did to Gast or Vegito could generate energy beyond XXI’s absorption capacity.

I wonder what Gast was trying accomplish here. He already lost to XXI once.

Northeal was saying: He shows no remorse for all of the innumerable lives he killsI think that an actually remorseless irredeemable villain would not selflessly do good deeds without expecting anything in return like XXI did.

XXI selflessly did good deeds without expecting anything in return. XXI offered to restore Universe 19 without asking for anything in return. XXI also helped U16 Vegetto in satiating his (Vegetto's) hunger without asking for anything in return.

If XXI wanted, he (XXI) could have just used the villains to attack during the wishing ceremony at the end of the DBM tournament without bothering to grant a wish to U19. Had XXI attacked during the wishing ceremony at the end of the DBM tournament without bothering first to grant a wish to U19, XXI would have already won instead of still staying on Universe 0, however XXI willingly chose to risk failing to accomplish his own goals for the sake of selflessly doing a good deed for the save of saving U19.

Would a remorseless irredeemable villain actually chose to risk failing to accomplish their goals for the sake of selflessly doing a good deed? Most villains would not take that risk, however XXI chose to take that risk, thus showing that XXI has the potential to be a better person.

Northeal was saying: he works with the most evil participants in the universeThat XXI is probably going to double cross and/absorb from the inside of their bodies once XXI has no use for them anymore, because XXI put pieces of himself inside of their bodies.

Northeal was saying: dooming many othersXXI did not chose to become hungry.

Northeal was saying: Gast fight that he does like to torture and mock his opponent when given the chance.What torture? If I recall correctly XXI actually tried to defeat/kill/absorb Gast as fast as possible after Gast defeated Janemba. As for the "mock his opponent" part, the "mockery" was more XXI cheating (via attacking Gast after he forfeit) and boasting about getting away with it than actual sadism, if it was sadism at all.

Northeal was saying: So there's no moral ambiguity in him needing and deserving to die.If XXI lacked moral ambiguity, he would not have done good deeds for free, with no strings attached.

BlaqkJak was saying: Y'know what? I don't see Vegito there. I wonder if the one we saw in Bardock's vision was a fusion of the Universe 13 Vegeta and Kakarot.I wonder if the rampaging Vegetto vision is Ginyu using Vegetto's body.

I think that if Vegetto is frozen by the time stop, then there is nothing stopping Ginyu from switching bodies with Vegetto.

Does this mean that XXI only needed one wish? So, why didn't he wish to save the Heliorian's planet, then? It would be more food for him.

Also isn't ginyu still in the body of king cold, are they cool with it? Or is it because they are too weak to do something about it.

Too bad Raichi & Babidi already left. I wonder if they would have been subjects to XXI also.

PS. Vegito was engaging C17 & C18 when the Life Freeze happened. I'd bet that he is in pieces now, unless the fake senzu had the effect to keep him mobile during this Freeze.

Also, if Piccolo figured out a counter, then so did Gast. I wonder if he did so fast enough. Because here, the Frost Demons are alive & he was (like Vegito) actively engaging them when this all kicked off.

So he is loyal to his subjects...for now. Interesting.

The last panel is reminds me the scene from the anime when goku said : "Wow, look at all the Piccolos..." lol

I guess Son Bra isn't that broken up about Pan and Goten being dead. We could have focused on that bit of trauma, but I guess some humor is more important. Nevermind about building tension or the threat of XXI.

Once again only killing off the weakest of the characters. I get it, but it still feels cheap considering there’s no reason that any of them (other than Piccolo, who could regenerate) should be more likely to survive this situation than the others.

Honestly, if we are cutting characters, why are the two Gohans alive? Do we really need two of them?

U16 Pan is dead again??!! Why?!

I thought we have a whole sub-plot with her and Son Bra...

Wait, if Goku teleported near Cell then shouldn't Goku be inside Cell's protective barrier? Hahaha. Just saying, but maybe it was too fast or he wasn't near enough....

Ha! Great page. Humour is a core part of Dragonball forever and always

Is this the DBZA Goku?

Majin Wasabi was saying: But how did Trunks know to protect Bra if they were paralyzed?
DrewSaga was saying: I wonder how Trunks and Bra got into that position. Maybe Trunks anticipated the attack and tried to save U18 Bra from it (and failed)?As some have mentioned. It has already been mentioned how everyone (except Piccolo) is surprised by the spikes. That means these objects only appeared after the Life Skip was activated.

Some people's assumptions sound plausible.
After XXI's allies started causing chaos, it's possible that Trunks threw himself in front of Bra to protect her. (Similar to what Gohan did for Videl on page 1367). Or more likely, after the Life Skip was activated, the spikes impaled Trunks' frozen body and then crushed his body onto Bra, impaling her with the same spikes.


Northeal was saying: And hey in the case of fridging this works way better than with Videl as we get Vegeta's immediate reaction,Understandable reasoning. I would like to add that perhaps, due to the lack of pages per chapter, DBM didn't want to dwell too long on the reactions of deceased family members. Of course, this is important and should generally be done. However, if you have to cut corners, then the choice to capture Vegeta's immediate reaction is more understandable. After all, in the MR arc, we already saw Gohan's reaction to Videl's death. (Of course, not U18 Gohan, but the concept is the same). To repeat this so graphically here would be unnecessarily macabre.
So, it's possible that the chapter is packed with plot and unfortunately they had to save space somewhere.

Page 732 said that Piccolo's will is keeping Bra alive, however it seems like that Piccolo's will failed to save her.

I wonder if that Bardock's vision "Piccolo saved Bra's life" event somehow was actually prevented from happening.

Gohan was saying: Man, I expected one of them to have died but not both.According to that aforementioned Bardock's vision that I mentioned above, it seems like that Piccolo is somehow going to save Bra's life, unless the events show on that Bardock's vision happen after the current arc or U16 Bra change her hairstyle to match U18 Bra's hairstyle or both.

Northeal was saying: his failure to save herBut did he fail to save Bra? Page 732 implies that Piccolo somehow saved her life.

CompactCoven was saying: That's the other BraDid I confuse one Bra for the other Bra? If the answer to that question is yes, then if she is the other Bra, why is she with U18 Vegeta?

TMR was saying: I think it was Son BraI hope you are correct.

Did the spikes come before or after the freeze? It would make sense to freeze everyone first, then impale them, just like XXI vs Goku in the tournament.

If the spikes came after, how did Trunks have time to (attempt to) protect her? If he could react, then so could the others. I don't recall anyone else mentioning seeing the spikes before getting frozen - Goku even asked Piccolo how long they were out for.

i wonder why xxi was so careless to let some of the fighters live. I assume maybe someone intervened, so he didn't just kill everyone. That is unless he has 'plans' for people who can actually fight

SSJ2 Your Nick was saying: I mean assuming Bardocks visions are still happening (my will keeps you alive is clearly this but they're not standing in a world of spikes) then Vegetto is probably dead right now, as he was about to be attacked by 17/18 when the freeze happened. Maybe the Black senzu takes effect upon death?
The visions will all still happen. According to Salagir, only the context of them has changed over the years. Makes sense, since I'K'L was supposed to be a gag character at first, but now he and his power are a major part of the story, thus the context of the Yamcha vision has changed. And we don't see anything at all in the background of those visions. It's probably that vague, for the reason I've already mentioned. The context wasn't fully clear back then, and with a background to these visions, Salagir would've been limited with the ways how to integrate these visions.

My point is, these visions could happen very soon, at any point now. In theory, they just have to find U16 now so that Son Bra is with them. I'm very sure we will also see the vision soon, where Goku and at least one of the Cell Jr. become friends/work together. They seem to be a bit scattered in this spike forest, while they should actually stand right next to each other. But if they find U16, they'll also find U17.

About the black senzu. It was said in the Q&A twitch stream, that the black senzu isn't meant to control Vegetto. It was literally just a senzu and a kind offer from XXI to Vegetto, nothing more. It won't control Vegetto directly. But he thought, why not make him an honest offer. Could come in handy later...

All this is very interesting, everything can happen now and it's super funny to speculate what could happen next!

My man Vegetto finally gets some respect

But shouldn't he be somewhere else?
Why didn't Gast just tell Goku everything about XXI? All he needs to do is put his hand on Goku's forehead.
What about South Kaioshinn inspecting U10?

I am so confused.

Hector Fenwick was saying: Most boring/unnecessarily prolonged fight: Goku vs Vegeta
Most stupid fight that could've been great if the writers had written it differently: Vegeta vs Cell

If you check out Asura's deviant page, there is a slightly extended version of the fight.

So it's not a time stop, but it instead halts life.
Hmm, so it's a Life-Skip. ;)

So it is a direct reference and continuation of what Piccolo already analyzed on page 2512. In the meantime, he has devised and initiated a counter.

I absolutely love how Piccolo's lower body continues to shimmer in blue, suggesting that the radius of his counterattack is extremely small. So small, in fact, that (at the beginning) it only affected part of his body. which must be extremely frightening to see half of your body frozen.

Northeal was saying: The dialogue implies some power and he is in the cloak but no turban look which is rare for him.It should be noted that the turban would actively prevent Piccolo from vibrating his antennas. It makes sense in terms of the plot why Piccolo is not wearing the turban at the moment.

Nice sly reference to Cell's special beam cannon attack against Bra there. And how logically she should have also been able to sense the obviously stronger attack, but was allowed to happen to spice up the story.

Funny enough, I kind of imagine Uub returning looking something like that and kicking XXI's ass hard.

Northeal was saying: This was by far the worst change/addition the novelization made (not counting the dream chapters). I can't believe they're adding this and not a lot of the actual good changes/additions they made.

What was bad about this change?

ZenBuu was saying: A lot of you are breaking rule #13 at this point! Please refrain from second guessing what exactly Salagir has in mind, you can't read his thoughts.

For example things like:

"Salagir is obviously burned out at this point, he's not motivated anymore; Salagir won't treat Goku with respect anymore in the future; that's it, DBM is over" and stuff like that.
Discuss, but in a friendly manner, without getting insulting. This is still Salagir's comic. Frankly, he doesn't owe anybody here anything, he can still do whatever he wants with his own story, wether you like it or absolutely disagree with it.

I really hate this level of logic, because by that definition, we attribute this to Game Of Thrones Finale, The new Star wars triology, Lost Season Finale, and other series that jumped the shark. Hypothetically, you can argue "the author can do what they want", but with this level of logic: We can also critisize it heavily

Being an author and putting out public works does not shield from criticism.

Well, that checks out. Guess this is where XXI's scheme will reveal itself.

Anyway now that the tournament's over, this would probably be my ranking of the matches:


(Got it from here: https://t...atches-17854885)

Cell sure as shit don't deserve it. The dude played both sides for his benefit. Cell should really consider politics or business.

Jacky wins as I am sure there is a rule about fighing in ther nude Ran-Fan is disqualified for immodest battle attire

Wait, you can draw nudity? I thought that wasn't permissible. I know gore is alright to some extent but has there ever been a scenario prior to this when a character was fully nude?

I missed if this was already explained, (if so, apologies)
Although this started with a fun, previously unseen universe, I see this is pretty much a re-posting of DBM from scratch, except in color (which is awesome), Are any other detours planned? Even if its not to go back to previously explored things (So yea, no more Gokhan)

You guys need to tone it down with Roshi, pretty sure he's not a misogynist.

My question is, why did this fight piss off Vegito?

Uzurper was saying: Out of curiosity, what are your three most favorite matches in the tournament you've seen thus far? My list.
3. Cell vs. Tapion
2. Son Bra vs. Ginyu
1. Goku vs. Uub

3. Bardock vs Cold
2. Gast vs Raichi
1. Vegeta vs Raichi

Worst fights so far

1. Vegeta vs Cell by a mile
2. Goku vs Frieza
3. Bra vs those armored dudes