I vaguely recall seeing images of this character from a Toriyama side project. He looks like a "What if Gero was a good guy but still designed Cell?" sort of idea

Right? It would be such a Toriyama move to have been randomly watching an episode of the anime or something while writing a scenario like this, hearing the sound effect they used for Freeza Fam's footsteps, and then making that the reason for Freeza being caught.

No, he explicitly says it would have worked if he hadn't split himself apart, go re-read that chapter. 1 Respuesta(s)

I did, and it was also stupid, then. In the comics, there might BE alien tech more advanced than his, but the instant that Tony gets his hands on that tech, he's going to take it apart, figure out what makes it tick, put it back together, and then make his own that works even better. It's literally what he does--he's NOT just a genius on Earth, he's a genius on any planet you put him on.

Meanwhile, I don't see Thorn's people making time machines and altering the space-time continuum like other versions of Bulma have. And why would Thorn even be so adept at hacking using an alien interface he's never seen before on technology that is apparently so simple and archaic in comparison to Thorn's "school hacking test" (a line which itself is beyond MCU-tier cringe)? You know what I was taught in my programming and computer repair classes? How to program on and repair contemporary software and equipment. They're not dragging out massive tape-deck computers from like the 1960s and 70s for us to learn how to use and operate. It doesn't make any sense; all it does is artificially prop up the skills of Thorn at the expense of Bulma, and my interest in the dialogue of these characters.

Panel 2 is doing that thing I hate in comics and manga where two characters are clearly meant to be facing each other; yet, one throws a right-hand punch, only to somehow strike the opponent's right cheek, turning their head to the left, in complete defiance of logic, physics, and biomechanics.

Unless Wukong's face is already turned to the left when Tien hits him, the positioning just doesn't make sense. If I'm facing you, and punching you in the face with my right hand, my right hand is going to hit your left-side cheek, causing your face to turn towards your right--there's no scenario outside of your head ALREADY being turned to your left that a right-hand punch from me is going to impact your right-hand cheek. And even IN that scenario, due to the directional momentum of my punch, your head is still likely to turn some in the direction that my fist is going as opposed to the opposite direction entirely. 2 Respuesta(s)

Super Janemba?

And a lot of necks to use it on if things go south.

Kinda agree there. It's like Salagir tried to combine the Multi-Form Technique with the Afterimage--I can appreciate the INTENT but it's a bit stupid, and should be easily seen through by anyone who can sense ki, because their senses would follow the large ki presence. The energy clone can't possess the same amount of energy as the original, so a savvy fighter should be able to realize the instant they switched, and respond accordingly.

Honestly, though, I'd have less of a problem with it if it werern't for the weird goo shit that's left around afterwards. 2 Respuesta(s)

Really confused why Old Kai suggests that Broly would have to be brought back? Doesn't seem to make sense for him to say that with the whole context of what he said before. 1 Respuesta(s)

Definitely heavily implied that Cell could have kept fighting back against Gohan's "Father-Son" Kamehameha if not for Vegeta. Also, remember, everyone else contributing against Cell is anime-only, Vegeta is the only person who acts in the manga, and his ki blast is critical to victory. 2 Respuesta(s)

Is it broken? I just noticed that I don't see Janemba fading in, any more. 1 Respuesta(s)

I wish Zen Buu were here to see this.

One of my all-time favorite "what-if" scenarios for DBZ is stuff like "What if Super Buu met Janemba?"

The cut to the Namekian and the Vargas always rubbed me the wrong way, here. This doesn't feel like something Toriyama would cut to mid-fight, but maybe I'm wrong

No, the Oozaru is still a 10x increase IIRC. 1 Respuesta(s)

Well, I scrolled back up, and while a couple people mention Dodoria's race, only one other person before my post brings up that the pink girl is reminiscent of Zarbon.

Everyone like "IT'S ZEN BUU AND UUB" or "IT'S ELDER KAI AND RADITZ"...

but I think I might be the only person to realize that the pink girl is a member of Zarbon's race, wearing the same circlet and earrings Zarbon did, while the yellow guy is a very physically fit member of Dodoria's race. 1 Respuesta(s)

Where does she go when the planet explodes out of no where like in the Buu Saga? 1 Respuesta(s)

Out of curiousity...

Why is it that the color version keeps all the same wonky, awkward Google Translate grammar? I ask this only because I know the original creators are not native English speakers, but does no one on the coloring staff speak English as a first language? I'd be more than willing to help out with fixing grammar and text in future pages.

For instance, page 167, center panel: "From a simple push of this button, I send each of the particles of the Universe 20 back home. Your Broly will be back into the emptiness of space, where we found him."

This would be better written as "With a simple push of this button, all atoms originating from Universe 20 will be sent back home. This Broly will be sent back into empty space, where we found him." It would even use less of the text bubble.

The difference between the profile pics of both of these users is everything you need to know about what's going on in this conversation. 1 Respuesta(s)

No. It wasn't just a TFS scene--I went back and rewatched the original. Goku starts to tell everyone about the Androids while keeping Trunks' identity a secret, and he flat out forgets the place, date, and time that Trunks had JUST told him the Androids would show up at. Piccolo has to cover for him, while keeping Trunks' secret. In TFS they play the scene up more, with Goku even forgetting the word "Androids", while Piccolo corrects him as he speaks.

The only fight he screwed up in Super was forgetting to bring the sealing tag for the Mafuba. Goku was also dumb enough in DBZ to forget major, important details Trunks had just given him moments ago (after the Mecha Freeza fight), to the point that Piccolo had to pick up his slack with the fact he had super hearing and heard the entire thing. He has always been stupid and a bit forgetful.

Meanwhile, Super probably has the greatest examples of Goku's actual fighting genius, like the Hit fight. Goku was able to accurately predict the fighting style of someone who was constantly skipping time to hide his movements, to the point of being able to counteract Hit no matter how much he increased the duration of time he could skip. Or like when he placed energy mines in the arena floor in the ToP.

The point is that it's very out of character for Goku to speak with this level of scientific accuracy about anything. It's not that he wouldn't get this same point across, but there is a decidedly "more Goku" way for him to have explained Ultra Instinct--or if you wanted this level of exacting scientific detail, then Whis should have explained this. 1 Respuesta(s)

People keep saying that he got dumber in Super, but he didn't. Goku is still very clearly a genius at fighting throughout all of Super. He's dumb when it comes to a lot of normal day-to-day things because he spent his entire childhood until he was 14 alone on a mountain with an old man who wasn't very book-smart, himself (and then when the old man died, Goku was alone, too).

There might be a moment or two where they really play up how dumb he is for a gag (like the "what is kissing?!" scene), but compare that to, say, SSJ4 Goku in Dragon Ball GT. When he's fighting Super 17, an enemy that Goku already knows can absorb energy to get stronger, Goku charges up a x10 Kamehameha at full power and fires. Super 17 absorbs this energy blast. So what does Goku do? He charges a SECOND Kamehameha and fires it at 17, and only after THAT one is absorbed does Goku go "Aw, man! What am I supposed to do?!" I should mention, by the way--Goku is firing these Super Saiyan 4, x10 Kamehamehas from the exact same angle that, in the Cell Games, had everyone convinced that Goku was going to destroy the planet when he was just a Super Saiyan. 1 Respuesta(s)

Why do you keep saying this? Wolf Fang Fist is a hand-to-hand technique that anyone could copy, and even if it WAS a "ki technique", the artificial energy of the Cyborgs perfectly mimics all of the functions of ki besides ki sensing and telepathy, neither of which are used by the Wolf Fang Fist. May I remind you that canonically, Android 18 learns the Kienzan from Krillin, despite continuing to not have ki?

"Katchin" is another word for "turtle shell".




Disregard this. I typed this based on half-remembered nonsense.

Please use the Wolf Fang Fist. Please use the Wolf Fang Fist. Please use the Wolf Fang Fist... 1 Respuesta(s)

Perfect Cell level as of the beginning of the Cell Games, not U17 Perfect Cell level. 1 Respuesta(s)

He definitely wasn't, until after he met 16, was revived from Cell, and was freed from his bomb and deactivation device by Krillin's wish. After that, 17 found something to protect--nature. That's the whole point. He fundamentally changed as a character and became someone who WOULD train to get stronger in order to better protect what's dear to him, and just to test his own limits.

With that in mind, why would he be left in the dust by Piccolo? Piccolo had to fuse with Kami just to break even with 17. If Kami-fused Piccolo is 17's starting point, and we've established that, canonically, 17 is a genetically/cellularly-modified superhuman more than he is a mechanical cyborg, why would he not be able to continue to gain power by training like everyone else in the series? Why should he not outpace Piccolo, given that he starts with such an enormous level of power and natural fighting instinct?

Other than that, while I honestly liked 17 being as powerful and relevant in the Dragon Ball Super anime as he was, I can definitely agree that it was a poor narrative decision to just make Android 17 automatically SSBlue level without at least some kind of on-screen training arc with the rest of the team. Even Freeza had a sparring partner around Zarbon or the Ginyus' level when he trained for four months--killing poachers can't be that strenuous or intenstive for someone at 17's base level, and there's only so much someone can do alone.

The DBSuper manga does a lot to fix this, actually, by reviving the Cell Juniors. 17 "domesticated" them in the manga and made them his training partners--training with seven near-Perfect Cell-level partners would have done a LOT more to explain how powerful 17 got in the anime. 1 Respuesta(s)

I've been crying off and on for hours.

This fucking hurts.

Zen Buu literally isn't on the page except as the bit of graffiti he'd left behind on the Vargas' machine, and that's literally just spray paint.

You know, in retrospect, the result of this was pretty obvious given how the blast didn't do anything to Bojack's impressive mane or his jacket despite both taking it point-blank.

...Which makes the power scaling a little confusing, how could Pan draw blood with a punch but fail to seriously harm him (even on a cosmetic level) with a Kamehameha, which concentrates your power, amplifying its output?

Can't wait for Cell to avenge Pan a few hundred pages from now--

Everyone's making Freeza comparisons here.

I have to agree, honestly. Bojack is just a worse version of Freeza all the way around; far more powerful, with none of the wit, and an even MORE fragile ego.

Gun to my head, I have to pick one: Be a member of Bojack's crew, or join the Freeza Force? I'm picking Freeza Force any day.

Toriyama calls Cold a mutant, as well, and claims that no one else in Freeza's species except for Freeza and Cold have their level of power or evil. Salagir takes some artistic liberties here, and claims Freeza's entire lineage are mutants. 1 Respuesta(s)

Would you say Polar is more skilled as a fighter than Bojack?

Because they do.



I think the reason multiple energy shots like this don't work more often is BECAUSE they're just rapid-fire, uncharged ki attacks.

Some advice on the English for this page.

The first speech bubble in the fourth panel would flow better if it read more like this:

"I'd love to take revenge, but we don't know if we're strong enough to kill him; besides, there are rumors he may be traveling with his father..."

The Jaco manga released quite some time after Salagir wrote and finished this story. His cameo in the Universe 2 roster is just that, a cameo--just like Beerus and Whis appeared as a cameo and even had some funny, in character dialogue not long ago. It's for a gag.

Bardock is abusing his influence over the Saiyans as their king. By playing the lottery, he's drawing a lot of eyes to the lottery. By playing three specific numbers, a lot of Saiyans will imitate him and try to play the same three numbers, thinking they have some special signficance to the king, so therefore they must be lucky. Like many state-sponsored lotteries, the jackpot, composed of the money spent on tickets, is dumped into the state's treasury ("coffers") when there isn't a winner. It's a pretty lowbrow idea for a minicomic, honestly.. 1 Respuesta(s)

A supporting third-party statement is hardly equivocable to the mess of Cell X. Whoever thought that was a good idea should be drawn and quartered. @_@

His eye color is the only real arguement against it, but honestly, if we have every other indicator other than a direct change to his physical appearance: the golden aura, the SS2 sparks at full power, his Saiyan cells; the simplest explanation is that he's a Super Saiyan. Undoubtedly influenced by the others he derives his power from, but no one else in the entire series (until RoF/Super, anyway, and the advent of Golden Freeza and Awakened Piccolo) has a consistent golden aura besides the Super Saiyans, and Cell, who is also part Saiyan. It just checks all the boxes besides the fact he doesn't have any hair and that his eyes are red. 1 Respuesta(s)

To begin, a quote--from a video game, I know, but it was still delivered in Dameon's dulcet tones:

"The potential of the Saiyans is mine, as well."
— Perfect Cell (Xenoverse 2)


I'm going to use greentext format to quote some individual points I'd like to respond to in your post, so I apologize if this one stretches on a bit:

>Freeza did the power-weighted form, and so did Roshi
No, they didn't. Freeza and Master Roshi are still as fast as their "base" forms in their bulked up, 100% Final Form/MAX Power Mode. They aren't "weighted" down by their power at all, or Freeza would never have been able to even touch SSJ Goku. Admittedly, I have to base Roshi off of his Dragon Ball Super appearances, especially the Resurrection F movie, because we simply don't see Roshi use MAX Power Mode in the original manga unless he's using the Kamehameha--but in DBSuper, Roshi is shown moving just as freely and speedily as ever in his bulked up state.


>then there's cell using this form
...What about it? He inhaled Hirudegarn, which caused his body to stretch and bloat. In the original series, he only takes this form when he's already defeated and reduced to his Semi-Perfect Form, bloating himself up with concentrated power to blow himself up with the planet. The game was over. I don't see how this supports your point. Yes, he was willing to suffer some indignity to kill himself. In DBM, this scene looks more like a gag. Briefly suffering some minor indignity via inflation to (kill yourself and everyone else)/(defeat an opponent in a tournament), versus drastically altering his silhouette with such ungainly appendages and unnecessary spikes... Cooler's 5th form is more reasonable, I'll grant.

>the pages of Cell doing...exactly what I said.
Cell himself states before transforming that neither of them can hurt each other. The only reason he transforms is to be as large as Hirudegarn, and "play on the same field", in his own words. All it did was give more physical weight to his attacks to push Hirudegarn over. Cell still complains throughout the fight that his blows aren't really doing anything, until he starts going for piercing attacks. And then, at the very end, he kills Hirudegarn, without Giant Form. It was a negligible "power up" if it can be called that. It makes you physically larger, giving you all of the benefits of that, but it doesn't do anything to increase your energy/ki output.

>he reinforced his core to survive "wide" attacks" just to become stronger. Can you really say he would NEVER use all his cells to power up further? he was willing to potentially die just to power up further.
So was Vegeta, in the Namek Saga Yet, also like Vegeta, Cell is possessed of a certain pride in himself. My point is that he already has the perfect fighter's body, in his mind's eye; it would just be unseemly to throw on fifteen feet in height, a couple extra arms and a whole bunch of ungainly spikes/horns. I simply can't see a universe where Cell leans so heavily into the Freeza and King Cold parts of himself, especially in DBM, when we clearly see the heights that his Saiyan progenitors can reach.

It's about at this point that I have to say, your mangadex links aren't working. They give 404 errors.

That said, in the Dabura fight; Gohan clearly wasn't in SSJ2--Vegeta even makes a point of chastising Gohan for not showing them the power he had against Cell, while directly comparing Dabura to Cell from the start of the Cell Games, who any version of SS2 Gohan should be able to defeat (especially if we go by Salagir's interpretation that the forms of Super Saiyan are simply unlocked via reaching a certain base of power, but I don't necessarily believe that to be true in Toriyama's original work). Gohan's hair in his base form is shaped into the style of his SS2 hairstyle throughout the Buu arc to begin with, and so Toriyama made a point throughout the Buu arc to differentiate between SSJ1 and SSJ2 with the sparks, following his use of them in the Cell Saga to differentiate the new form from previous levels of Super Saiyan. Cold might have electric arcs here, but I'm going to overlook that in favor of what we see from Toriyama's work, rather than Salagir's fan idea based on a transformation conceptualized by the design and writing staff at Toei.


TL;DR/In summation:
No one in the original Dragon Ball series possessed consistent electric sparks in their aura besides those with Super Saiyan 2, 3, or Gohan's Mystic form; Majin Buu was stronger than SSJ2 and on par with/above SS3 at different points, yet when the various Buu auras are shown, no sparks. Every official coloration of Perfect Cell and "Super Perfect Cell" as it's known in the States depicts Cell with the exact same gold-colored aura of a Super Saiyan, in addition to Super Perfect Cell possessing the SS2 sparks. His "Power-Weighted Form" possesses the same drawbacks as Trunks', while characters like Master Roshi and Freeza and their MAX Power Mode and 100% forms respectively possess no demonstrable reduction to their users' speed in the fights we see them utilized. With these facts in mind, and considering that at least 1/5th of Cell's genetics come directly from the Saiyans, the simplest explanation for all of these similarities is that Cell is constantly utilizing a form of Super Saiyan like Goku and Gohan's Mastered Super Saiyan.


As an addendum: During Imperfect Cell's debut appearance, in the official color formats, Imperfect Cell possesses the same default white/"base form" aura that everyone else does. Piccolo, meanwhile, already has a power greater than a Super Saiyan's, but his own aura remains white and featureless, as well. Later, however, when Imperfect Cell charges up after absorbing another five hundred thousand people, Cell's aura becomes the golden color of a Super Saiyan's, and his demonstrated power, now far greater than 17 and Piccolo's, seems to accentuate this. Later, when Semi-Perfect Cell charges up to full power against Super Vegeta, we again see a golden aura. 1 Respuesta(s)

Cell does have transformations, though--he's a Super Saiyan. He has the same golden aura and electric arcs of SS2/SS3, but he doesn't have hair, so it doesn't change color. Consider: When Cell held himself back at the start of the tournament, his power lacked the electric arcs of SS2, but when he revealed his full power, they appeared.



The Power-Weighted Form is the exact same thing as Trunks' Super Saiyan Grade 3 or whatever you want to call it. The Giant Form was simply for shits and giggles against a similarly colossal opponent. As proven by the ending of the Hirudegarn fight itself, Giant Form was NOT a power upgrade for Cell, it just let him play with Hirudegarn eye-to-eye, literally.

As for Cell's thoughts on Cold, I haven't read the novelization, so fair enough on that point, I guess, but it seems anathema for Cell, as a martial artist, to desire such an ungainly form as Cold's 6th form. The power increase is admirable, sure, but Cell could probably do without the...was it six, or four arms that Cold had? There's a reason Cell doesn't use the Fist of the Four Arms technique from Tien, despite (arguably) being able to use it. Also, just as a Cell fan, I would like very much for any future iteration of a more powerful Perfect Cell to be as far away from the ugly, boring Cell X (just Google "Dragon Ball Cell X") as humanly possible.

Otherwise, I think we agree completely. Cell is always in the Super Saiyan state. I made the point in an earlier comment that Cell's power is a mirror of Gohan and Goku's from the Cell Games--as good Dragon Ball fans will remember, Goku and Gohan essentially made the Super Saiyan state their "base" form just prior to the Cell Games, able to maintain Super Saiyan indefinitely, even while asleep. The same applies to Cell--the differernce is, again, that Cell doesn't have any visual indicators to suggest the transformation, other than the difference between his Super Saiyan and Super Saiyan 2 auras. 1 Respuesta(s)

Yes, exactly this. The player character stand-in for Cell in the Dragon Ball Heroes game, named Genome, even turns red like SSGod for his God-class form, and then blue like SSBlue for his class form above that.




With regard to DBM, rather than DBS:

Cell would have no interest or desire in changing his physical form to augment his power a la the Freeza Clan, IMO. He already went through his shapeshifting arc when he absorbed 17 and 18. He would be (and indeed, was, IIRC) disgusted by King Cold's augmentation forms; and his Saiyan cells have most definitely not peaked, if this fight between Goku and Vegeta is anything to go by, or hell, if VEGETTO is anything to go by (especially with WoG from Salagir saying that Cell's potential is limitless). The only power displayed in Dragon Ball Multiverse that Cell doesn't have a known genetic affinity for is Buu and XXI's magic. 1 Respuesta(s)

While some of Cell's power derives from Freeza, Piccolo, and King Cold, far more of it is derived from his Saiyan cells. When we see Perfect Cell in the colored format, his aura is always shown to be the exact same yellow/gold color as a Super Saiyan's, and then when he regenerates after self-destructing, his aura gains the electric arcs of Super Saiyan 2; his power increase mirrors Gohan's to the point of being able to injure SS2 Gohan and compete with him.

The implication, of course, is that any power that Goku and Vegeta can achieve, Cell can achieve as well. This form is clearly more powerful than any of the forms of Super Saiyan that Cell already uses, and far more refined and controlled. What do you MEAN "what use would Cell have for this"? His power, at the very least, suffers from all the same advantages and drawbacks that SSJ1 and SSJ2 have.

I think the problem lies in your assumption that Cell's transformations are limited to "his Imperfect form, his Semi-Perfect transformation, and his Perfect transformation"? Yet, I think that's a misleading line of thought. Once Cell became Perfect, his Perfect Form became his "base form"--the progression and expression of his power up until his self-destruction clearly mirrors the Mastered Super Saiyan state Gohan and Goku achieved, with a consistent golden Super Saiyan aura throughout. And then, when he comes back, in his "Super Perfect" state, he IS a Super Saiyan 2, the same as Gohan. 2 Respuesta(s)

Not true. Gohan was once stronger than Master Roshi, but his power level was only 125 when he fought Goku at Baba's Palace according to the Daizenshuu 7. Master Roshi is significantly stronger at 139.

That was, in fact, the joke. Dragon Ball was a gag manga before it ever started taking the fighting seriously. These are gag fighters. 1 Respuesta(s)

It's sort of funny how people in the American comments are saying "WHY ISN'T THIS TAGGED" while only a single French comment even mentions censorship. 1 Respuesta(s)

*cough--DBSuper:SuperHero--cough*

All of Cell's fights are in my top 5, except Vegeta vs. Cell. In both art style and execution, it is the worst fight of the tournament.

did he get her a bouquet of weed

Fun, indeed, Cell. Fun, indeed.

It was hard to parse this because of the infrequent use of punctualization, but...

A) the ROSAT/HTC magically restocks its own pantries every day,

B) Most Saiyans don't have the potential of Goku, let alone Freeza.

C) I find it unlikely that the average bloodthirsty Saiyan conqueror would experience enough of an emotional trigger by himself to unlock Super Saiyan. If we go by Salagir's rules, where Super Saiyan is a state achieved when a Saiyan reaches a certain power level, then maybe you could see a Super Buu-level SSJ2 emerge if you did this, but it would take considerably longer. Like, if they put Raditz in there, it's highly unlikely that Raditz ever reaches that level by himself, no matter how long he spends training. Piccolo states several times that there's only so far someone can get by training by themselves. Freeza, again, is a very unique case, here, since he was born with his original power level, and simply never trained in his life (I like to think that his fighting style is a mix of natural intuition on how to move his body, especially his tail, and the years he's spent watching his soldiers fight his wars for him).

Lol no, it isn't, at least probably not intentionalloy. The name Mary Sue refers to the trope of the "Mary Sue" archetype in fanfiction/roleplaying--they're best friends with all the main characters, they have all the best powers in the series, everyone immediately likes them, they're some kind of half-Saiyan half-angel half-werewolf half-vampire half-demon, etc.

https://www.dictionary.com/e/fictional-characters/mary-sue
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MarySue

Amazing to see the evolution of your art! I hope they replace the old versions on the previous pages if they haven't already (I haven't looked since they were first posted), your skills have improved a lot since then.

@"definition of immortality" thing:

The dictionary definition of "immortality" is "exempt from death". In DBSuper, Zamasu was truly immortal. Even if you deconstructed him on an atomic level, a new body would form for him. He regenerated multiple fatal wounds, and was only effectively put down after fusing with a mortal (Goku Black) and being erased from existence (with the rest of the multiverse) by Future Zen-o.

Buu, meanwhile, is effectively "immortal" by way of being ageless and able to regenerate at an atomic level--but there his "immortality" meets its limit.

Cell is effectively "immortal" due to a suped-up Namekian regen, and his statement claiming that he won't age. Destroy him on a cellular level, though, and he's dead--so it, too, isn't true immortality.

Eternal life == true immortality. Really good regen == true immortality. Surviving fatal wounds =/= true immortality.

It's revealed in the Namek Saga that Vegeta believed by becoming immortal from the Dragon Balls, it wouldn't matter how much stronger Freeza was--Freeza could "kill" Vegeta again and again, and Vegeta would just get back up or pop back into being, and Freeza would eventually wear himself out of energy, and Vegeta would be able to kill him then. Zamasu's immortality confirms this is the case. 1 Respuesta(s)

1st part, @Superkamiguru: Even if Special Beam Cannon was lightspeed (and it is not, that statement from Piccolo is from the Ocean Dub, and thus non-canon), Raditz did not need to be Light Speed himself in order to dodge the attack given the distance involved, he simply needed to be roughly 1/3rd lightspeed to do so. Which, ironically, fits with my assertation that Saiyan Saga characters are Relativistic. It should also be noted that Piccolo wasn't even quite half of Raditz's strength at this point--it occurred prior to Piccolo's casual moonbust later, when he'd already grown in power to match Raditz, at the very least.

@Nephrahim:
In the context of this fanbook, you're absolutely right. As concerns people travelling between planets canonically, however, Jiren and Hit supposedly can travel between planets in very short timeframes without the use of a ship, with Jiren outright being shown flying faster from planet-to-planet than even the rest of the Pride Troopers' spaceships in the Dragon Ball Super manga, and Hit telling Champa and Vados that he no longer needed a travel cube to travel around Universe 6 in a short timeframe at the end of the Universe 6 tournament.

Not so. Just because you're moving FTL doesn't mean it still doesn't take time. You could travel multiple light years in just minutes, sure--or you could just lock on to the energy of the lifeforms on that planet and teleport there via Instant Transmission.

And the quote was "quadrillions of times" FTL--498 quadrillion times FTL, to be exact, though only Whis gets the full value of that feat. Beerus scales to 75% of it (for performing a similar feat in 1.25x the time), a value of 373.5 quadrillion times FTL, and thus anyone who scales to or above 70% Beerus should be considered to have a maximum potential flight speed of 261.45 quadrillion times FTL.

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:AKM_sama/Dragon_Ball_Super:_Whis%27_Speed_Feat Full context and calculation of the feat from the Super anime is right here. Relevant links for calculations of the size of Universe 7 are provided in the source material.

Hi, there. Perfect Instinct, here, and I'd like to clear up a couple of misconceptions in the comments.

Dragon Ball was Relativistic (or approaching, but slower than the Speed of Light; anything at or greater than 1% of the speed of light is "Relativistic" speed) in the Saiyan Saga, based purely upon Piccolo's casual moonbust that happened within a second or two after the blast was fired. Piccolo was at least equal to Raditz when he accomplished that feat (happened post-Raditz fight), so you can backscale Raditz to Piccolo in that manner. This was a very casual effort, I must reiterate, on Piccolo's part; casual ki blasts should therefore travel at this speed during the Saiyan Saga.

By the time Second Form Freeza gets on the scene, Dragon Ball top-tiers became Faster Than Light (FTL). Freeza easily blitzed characters who could easily blitz characters that were already approaching >50% lightspeed via powerscaling and other feats (such as Goku crossing the entirety of Planet Namek while Freeza was mid-sentence--mid-word, no less). Considering that speed only increases with your power level (provided you don't make yourself a big bulky target in the process), characters like the Androids and Kami-fused Piccolo are easily 10x FTL, and the scale only approaches the 100s by the end of Z. If you want to get into DBSuper, Beerus has a speed feat of travelling to a planet under his own power, many quadrillions of times faster than light; 70% of that (the amount of power Beerus exerted that SSGod Goku could keep up with) is still quadrillions of times faster than light, so any of the characters in Super that can scale to SSGod or GoD tiers (Android 17, Mystic Gohan, Final and Golden Form Freeza, etc.) scale to that somewhat, as well.

Instant Transmission is still instantaneous, though, that's never not been the case, but it still doesn't help you if your opponent can read your energy, and blitz you before you can react/teleport again (as shown with Freeza vs Jimeze in the Tournament of Power). 1 Respuesta(s)