DB Multiverse
Member page of TranshumanMarissa
Formerly Marinaliteyear, Long time fan of DBM, and Still kicking around. You may have even seen some of my arguments with people before. I love all things Dragonball, Including GT, super(manga and anime.), And Xenoverse, as well as several of the fanfics floating around the fandom years ago. so if I wax nostalgic, That would probably be why.
TranshumanMarissa
29 Ebrel 2023
Michelrpg was saying:
Im curious about something.... this transformation (for lack of a better word) is nothing beyond simply minimising their energy "leakage" right? They mention this being the same, or at least similar enough to what Old Kai did to Gohan, but we always just considered this a transformation that just replaced SSJ. If Goku and Vegeta achieved this by training, what would this mean in terms of multiplier levels? Does this mean they hold the SSJ1, 2, or 3 multiplier levels?
I prefer not to compare powerlevels and scaling, but right now I'm wondering where exactly this places them on the food chain so to speak. Because it seems that in terms of power, this isnt considered all that impressive by the audience I think, but their speed and total control of their energy is.
Dont get me wrong, I love that this exists, but Im also hoping there is a bit of a drawback to this, other than "I need a few seconds to concentrate".
[edit]
naming these forms "mystic" would be weird. Gohan got his powerup by mystic means, so it applies to him. Goku and Vegeta trained intensely to master their own bodies. Just refer to it as "Mastered Saiyan Form" and be done with it for the time being. Im sure Salagir has a name for it already anyway.
I prefer not to compare powerlevels and scaling, but right now I'm wondering where exactly this places them on the food chain so to speak. Because it seems that in terms of power, this isnt considered all that impressive by the audience I think, but their speed and total control of their energy is.
Dont get me wrong, I love that this exists, but Im also hoping there is a bit of a drawback to this, other than "I need a few seconds to concentrate".
[edit]
naming these forms "mystic" would be weird. Gohan got his powerup by mystic means, so it applies to him. Goku and Vegeta trained intensely to master their own bodies. Just refer to it as "Mastered Saiyan Form" and be done with it for the time being. Im sure Salagir has a name for it already anyway.
I dont really like multipliers in general, and find them problematic to understanding dragon ball.. I kinda prefer more of like, an 'add-on' style for transformations.
That being said, thats not what you asked, and seeing your second paragraph, Ill say unfortunatly, it does seem like we only have speculation. I'll say we have seen two lines of speculation I find reasonable, and I figure one of them is true. this technique/form seems to probably be around ssj3 level, or mystic level.
The latter is the most straightforward for why people speculate it so ill start with it... its been actively compared to Mystic, with some different circumstances and such. IF it is mystic level, that does mean Goku and vegeta are likely far beyond Gohan, even in raw power, let alone them seeming able to channel this to move with such efficiency everyone is surprised by their speed.
The former possibility is based on the many earlier comments vegeta and Goku have made about relative power levels, I think, The logic being that Goku and Vegeta never really acted like they have found a way to more power, so much as downplay ssj3 and allude to a 'better way', in which case this form isnt actually stronger then their original peak.. it just lacks the drawbacks, and gains in near perfect control, hence the speed.
..thats my two cents, anyway. Im entirely sure I could be off! not to mention the fringe possibility it could be between the two, or weaker then ssj 3 but somehow faster.
TranshumanMarissa
9 Ebrel 2023
vwishmwahuul was saying:
Is this a new or altered transformation? I do not know. Are they using a new or altered ability? I do not know. What do I know? It’s freaking awesome, that’s what I know.
Right? People seem to be assuming a lot about this technique! all I know is that its cool!
TranshumanMarissa
3 Ebrel 2023
Michelrpg was saying:
No, they are not at light speed at the end of the series. Not by a long shot. If they were, then Goku's instant transmission wouldnt make much sense since it literally would mean that EVERYONE at that point moved at that. Regarding your examples:
No, they are not at light speed at the end of the series. Not by a long shot. If they were, then Goku's instant transmission wouldnt make much sense since it literally would mean that EVERYONE at that point moved at that. Regarding your examples:
I mean.. Instant transmission doesnt move at the speed of light. Its instant. thats the name of the move. so even if everyone was moving faster then light since.. I dunno, super saiyan or something, Instant transmission would still be useful, since it would be even faster then that.
Sides, Imma just have to disagree in general here. Nothing we see in Dragonball ever indicated the speed of light works the same as in our world. I mean, goku was moving faster then solar flare's even as far back as his first fight with Tien, and stuff like after image implying that despite themselves, characters continue learning to 'see' faster, somehow, over and over again. even showing up as late as Cell and Early buu saga. like, Ki seemingly enhances senses beyond what is scientifically feasible. It cant all just be reacting to light-based stimuli faster as you get stronger, because that seems like such a slim margin for stuff like what burter did, where he moved so much faster then vegeta that vegeta seemed to be moving at a crawl, only for goku to be moving so fast, creating an after image so perfectly, that burter was unable to see goku at all other then the after image. Like, At some point you just have to accept that dragon ball doesnt follow science, so you cant apply scientific principles to it to determine scaling.
Mind you, DBM might work on different logic then Dragon ball proper, so Im not saying your nessicarily wrong, either, but I cant really Sympathize with people who assume everything in Dragon ball has got to be slower then light because of some random observations.
DBZFan92 was saying:
Light speed is light speed. It's not instantaneous. Goku's instant transmission is. Light can't travel from earth to king kai's/the other-world in an instant. So yes, it would still make plenty of sense.
Light speed is light speed. It's not instantaneous. Goku's instant transmission is. Light can't travel from earth to king kai's/the other-world in an instant. So yes, it would still make plenty of sense.
ahhhh you pre-empted me there. Lol. I think I like your arguments too. but its funny, Stuff like what your saying is stuff I was saying years ago in other pages of this comic.. I guess some of the debates havent changed in literal decades. 1 Replie(s)
TranshumanMarissa
1 Ebrel 2023
Xeno was saying:
Reading this discussion about ki and eyes, I actually have to wonder what is happening here, cause I feel some are trying to read too much into what's going on here, or I'm missing something.
The info I got:
— SSJ3, and every SSJ apparently, is crap cause energy leaks so Vegy says to Goku they should try to Gohan.
— We can assume therefore this "form" is based on Mystic Gohan.
— This "form" is incomplete, cause it shows in their eyes (it's a sign of energy leak they couldn't contain) and, even if it's kinda unfair, cause it's confirmed by Asura.
— Gohan's mystic form can be sensed. By very far actually, which is why Bu waited for him toying with the kids.
— Piccolo said HE couldn't sense them WHILE THEY WERE FOCUSING.
— Gohan said HE noticed that "everything changed" ONCE THEY'RE DONE FOCUSING.
As I see it, I have no reason to believe they can't be sensed right now. Gohan's mystic form doesn't leak ki but can be sensed, the fact they try to avoid ki leaks to mimic Gohan doesn't mean they don't have ki "inside" that can be sensed. Even if for whatever reason this perfected form couldn't be sensed cause 0 leaks, it is NOT perfected and there ARE leaks at this point, even if small ones, so at the very least THAT could be sensed. And afaik Gohan doesn't have any special skills to make him magically realize things, if he noticed such a big difference the moment they ended up their focus, it's cause he SENSED it, and there's only one thing he could've sensed.
Most people missed it for the same reason most couldn't follow Goku vs Cell, Bra missed half of it cause she was daydreaming, probably expecting a low tier battle (for her) with the usual "slow start" (this is WAY more clear in the og french text, where she says "by the time I FOCUSED I missed half of it", I dunno what's wrong with translators it's not that hard...), I'm pretty sure it has nothing to do with ki sensing.
But then again, the other option is technically possible I guess? Maybe this form can't be sensed for a reason I don't understand and Gohan said everything changed cause their eyes looked sexy. I would be disappointed though.
The info I got:
— SSJ3, and every SSJ apparently, is crap cause energy leaks so Vegy says to Goku they should try to Gohan.
— We can assume therefore this "form" is based on Mystic Gohan.
— This "form" is incomplete, cause it shows in their eyes (it's a sign of energy leak they couldn't contain) and, even if it's kinda unfair, cause it's confirmed by Asura.
— Gohan's mystic form can be sensed. By very far actually, which is why Bu waited for him toying with the kids.
— Piccolo said HE couldn't sense them WHILE THEY WERE FOCUSING.
— Gohan said HE noticed that "everything changed" ONCE THEY'RE DONE FOCUSING.
As I see it, I have no reason to believe they can't be sensed right now. Gohan's mystic form doesn't leak ki but can be sensed, the fact they try to avoid ki leaks to mimic Gohan doesn't mean they don't have ki "inside" that can be sensed. Even if for whatever reason this perfected form couldn't be sensed cause 0 leaks, it is NOT perfected and there ARE leaks at this point, even if small ones, so at the very least THAT could be sensed. And afaik Gohan doesn't have any special skills to make him magically realize things, if he noticed such a big difference the moment they ended up their focus, it's cause he SENSED it, and there's only one thing he could've sensed.
Most people missed it for the same reason most couldn't follow Goku vs Cell, Bra missed half of it cause she was daydreaming, probably expecting a low tier battle (for her) with the usual "slow start" (this is WAY more clear in the og french text, where she says "by the time I FOCUSED I missed half of it", I dunno what's wrong with translators it's not that hard...), I'm pretty sure it has nothing to do with ki sensing.
But then again, the other option is technically possible I guess? Maybe this form can't be sensed for a reason I don't understand and Gohan said everything changed cause their eyes looked sexy. I would be disappointed though.
well, dont gloss over how piccolo directly said he couldnt sense them. you even mention it in your post. Think about it. We have one person saying they cant sense their actions, and one person saying he noticed the difference. (not that he sensed their Ki. Gohan might have simply recognized what they were doing.)
like, yeah, Gohan can be sensed, and this form seems to be based on Mystic, but consider.. Gohan doesn't seal his ki up, so even if a big strength of mystic is magically sealing up his ki, he still uses his Ki like normal, shooting blasts and powering up and whatnot, so Likely its in those moments he 'leaks' Ki enough to be sensed normally, while Goku and Vegeta seem to be abstaining from all but basic Ki usage, like flight.
So to me, the logic goes like this. Goku and vegeta are purposefully sealing up as much, if not all of their Ki and focusing on hand to hand combat, to the point even piccolo couldn't sense the pair at all, so it seems likely sensing the pair at this point is difficult.. Im sure if someone is trying, they might be able to sense them, but to me, it seems like either way you'd have to focus on them extra hard. either to sense what little Ki they are putting out, Or to see them physically. Plus, from a visual design standpoint, I think its currently unclear if Goku and Vegeta are moving faster then usual, or are harder to sense then normal, or some combination of the two. 1 Replie(s)
TranshumanMarissa
23 Gouere 2022
I find this satisfing. Of all the people who had the know how to defeat buu, The last one I expected would be the Vargas, but its fitting. Plus, by this point, I think Zen buu had overstayed his welcome.. IF he comes back, I wont be upset, but I do hope this sticks for a while. Im Kind of tired of how impossible Zen Buu is. Like, The idea isnt bad, but when nothing even remotly phases him, it starts to get a little dull. Even Vegetto has been countered more often, and his whole thing is being the strongest.
DB Multiverse page 2061
TranshumanMarissa
17 Ebrel 2022
Oh Man. In hindsight, I too Should have seen this coming. for some reason, I never thought of someone using the one hard counter we know of against buu.
DB Multiverse page 1981
TranshumanMarissa
17 Ebrel 2022
Goodness. Poor Cell. He had so much potental, and I was wondering how Vegeta could try to fight him. Alas, an Indignant end, but not that unexpected I suppose.
DB Multiverse page 1948
TranshumanMarissa
13 Ebrel 2020
Ah, Poor frieza! It was a good fight, If it had lasted any longer, you well could have taken it. now imagine if you had that power as a non-illusory trick, you could cripple an opponant with an invitation! There is more for you to learn.
..Or not. you always had a way of letting your anger cloud your vision.
DB Multiverse page 1004
..Or not. you always had a way of letting your anger cloud your vision.
TranshumanMarissa
13 Ebrel 2020
hue. a very different take on frieza being a threat when compared to how GT, Super, and Even Xenoverse handle the idea. Plus, the idea of this frieza seeking out more arcane secrets after obtaining this unique power, and seeing the power of other magicians in this tournament does appeal to me.
Looking at it this way though, Even if his actual ki power is theoretically capped in Multiverse to obtaining 5th form, thats still a lot of power for a Wizard.
Add to that how Frieza's empire seems to be one of the forefronts of science, frieza could well have one of the higher potentals in all of DBM.. by cheating with science and his immeasurable wealth, along with his reach to hunt down magic in the odd corners of the universe.
..but that would take a frieza more motivated to hunt such things down. Perhaps After all this is said and done. hehe. 1 Replie(s)
DB Multiverse page 996
Looking at it this way though, Even if his actual ki power is theoretically capped in Multiverse to obtaining 5th form, thats still a lot of power for a Wizard.
Add to that how Frieza's empire seems to be one of the forefronts of science, frieza could well have one of the higher potentals in all of DBM.. by cheating with science and his immeasurable wealth, along with his reach to hunt down magic in the odd corners of the universe.
..but that would take a frieza more motivated to hunt such things down. Perhaps After all this is said and done. hehe. 1 Replie(s)
TranshumanMarissa
13 Ebrel 2020
pfft. Its amazing in hindsight to see Jaco here, now that in DB super he has kinda just joined the official cast of Dragon ball.
DB Multiverse page 788
TranshumanMarissa
9 Ebrel 2020
Neheehe. Looking back, I find it amusing how underestimated the Heliots have been from the begging. It musta blown people's minds as they became more and more Relevent.
DB Multiverse page 63
TranshumanMarissa
6 Ebrel 2020
Yeah, Rereading this, cocky namekian is kinda funny. poor guy.
DB Multiverse page 18
Language
I miss the times when the non-tournament chapters actually told a story and gave us new information about the universes their backstory. Now it's just filler
Ill be honest, having been here for years and years.. I dont remember that time, lol. Specials have been contentious for simply saying the obvious for most of their existance. I atleast like this one for being kinda dumb fun, compared to the multiple specials that boiled down to 'then the villian killed everyone the end'