Dragon Ball Multiverse

hleV@

Those power levels are from the Daizenshuu 7th volume, also known has the Dragon Ball Enciclopedia.
It was approved by Akira Toroyama.
Just search for information about it ;)

marko@

Freeza being at 12.000.000 is mathematically impossible.
Let me show you 2 reasons:

1- If Goku was at 3.000.000, and transformed at 15.000.000; Kaioken x20 would be stronger by that logic;

2- If Goku was at 300.000, He would be weaker than 1st form Freeza, Piccolo and Vegeta, and the manga indicates the oposite.

>, Base powers were no longer climbing at the hyper rate of speed as they did on Namek.
...wich is bullshit. if 6 days of training can make you that much more powerfull, than 10 years of training should do the same. lets face it , maths or logic was never toriyamas strength. i mean camon, there are so many unlogical mistakes .

>, Do you see how absurd that gets? How impossible it gets for anyone to match that (and yet they do)?
dragon ball IS ABSURD. didnt you catched that part? :o)

for example:

krillin in his first budokai was soo fast that noone could even see him (Normal people) . now, after several years of training, even godlike people like piccolo gohan or goku need hours to get from one point to another. at that time they should be so fast, that flying over the eart would take seconds.


>,I hate it when people 1) over estimate powers and 2) under estimate SSJ.
...which is what toriyama was doiing all the years. his characters are ridiculously powerfull. and ssjs are treatened like shit after the freeza saga. they were no match for anyone. c17,c18, c16, cell, dabura, buu, .ssj were supposed to be the stongest in the universe,but they didnt really do anything to proove this right.

lets see as this.
goku at the beginning of dbz. he looses to raditz, whos like ten times of weaker than nappa. then he comes back,and fucks up nappa with ease. still, he loses bad to vegeta. than in 6 days, he gets several times stronger than vegeta (and you say that he cant do that kind of training again, because??? loll) still, hes at 180.000 max. freezas minimum is 530.000. now, after goku gets heales, he has a pl over onemillion. than he comes back from namek, and with one finger he dodges every attack of trunks (who is at least as strong as gokus was on namek. ) then he trains for 3 years (which is way more than 6 days) and then he gets ill. than he trains another year in the room of spirit and time. he masters full power super sayan. then he trains for 7 years in the afterlife. then after buu is defeated he still trains for ten years.
ARE YOU SERIOUS TO SAY THAT HES NORMAL STATE CANT KEEP UP WITH EVEN A SSJ1? WICH IS MAX. A 50* POWERUP? LOOOL

of course its crazy, all thoose power ups, but still thats dbz.
AND I LEAVE IT BY THAT, SINCE FIGHTING OVER A COMIC ISNT SOMETHING I WOULD LIKE TO DO. BUT I SAID THAT BEFORE. PEOPLE DONT THINK CLEAR WHEN IT COMES TO CULT THINGS LIKE DBZ, SO ITS USELESS TO ARGUE. I WILL KEEP REEDING THIS BUT AS I SEE ITS USELESS TO READ OR WRITE COMMENTS.

I have to agree with unitron, the way characters power grow is absurd, that is why Totoryama stopped making power levels. The daizenshuu also refers that they power grow so much that it can't be mesured.

Just look at Goku's power increase:
Vs Raditz: 416
Vs Nappa and Vegeta: Over 8000 (more than 19x stronger)
Vs Ginyu: 90.000 (about 11x stronger)
Vs Freeza: 3.000.000 (33.3x stronger)

Without Zenkais, he becomed about 216x stronger only by training. And that was not even in 2 years.

But after Goku turning into a ssj, he can't reach the power of himself has a ssj in a previous saga in his base form? 50x stronger? Well, that sounds absurd.

>This is... totally ridiculous.
not good with numbers, are we?

Ok, salagir, so the only ones that have different power lvls are the ssj's from planet vegeta and possibly broly? Ah and another question, will there be any backstage fighting, cuz i could see broly going after goku during a fight or something.

This comic rocks! Haha Cooler getting his butt kicked, I sure wish you guys woud draw my comic.

E... SonDjin... Kakkarotto power level you show us is when he have Kaioken turned on ? Am I wrong ? His base power level that time was... 4, 10, 20, 30 times smaller ...

Lague_Reywander@

No, each of them is Goku in his base form.

> unitron : [goku] can be as powerfull in normal state than he was in ssj3 before
This is... totally ridiculous

It's not impossible, but Goku has to make an crazy hard training during ALOT of time.

SonDjin@

You want to say that everyone can be as powerfull as they want on his base form, but that need enough time. Am I right ?

I think the same. But there is one thing. If fridge-trio anihilated sayians, they had destroy earth ( afrter/before cell but with him on the planet, becouse from their universe there are not cell ) Buu died befor ewaking so... I think they`re not powerfull enough to compere with ssj3/buu`s level... and what`s more... K.Cold is in his second form... I think that his power is pathetic... he couldn`t fight with cell or even cyborgs...

[broken english blabling from my sight... Porando people Konban wa ^^]

Lague_Reywander@

Exactly, all they need is time to train.

i think its clearly obvious that Trunks is a lot stronger than cooler or any of freezas fam

plus if 1 fighter is a lot weaker than the other, its easier to get this fight out of the way and move to the next one, so i predict trubks will just finish him off with ease, then again cooler is there at the start so who knows

>They only tranined, not get beat up to a pulp. When Vegeta was defeated, he wasn't beaten to a pulp really. Only his arm was broken, and I don't think that constitues as like death experience.
Goku wasn't near death on Earth, but got a Zenkai. Vegeta wasn't near death against the Ginyu Force but got a Zenkai. Goku wasn't near death after the Ginyu Force and got a Zenkai. "Near death" is a misleading term. Saiya-jins get stronger just from healing from an injury. Any injury. If the Zenkai persisted post SSJ Vegeta would have rushed off to fight 18 again. And if he still lost he'd have healed up and then rushed off to do it again until he won. We wouldn't have stood around mopping and then agreed with Goku that they had to train more. This is the same guy that had Krillin blast a hole through his chest so he could get strong enough to fight Freeza, after all.

>It is theorhetically possible for a base saiyajin to defeat a ssj counterpart, but it would have to take lifetimes to do it and the base would have to be gifted while the ssj would be very weak.
Oh, sure. Give Goku a couple thousand years of training in Otherworld and he could probably take Freeza in his base. But no living Saiya-jin's going to reach that level of power.

I mean, fuck, that was the entire point of the Namek/Freeza Sagas and the creation of SSJ for crying out loud.

>As for the ssj power up, where did you get that. The only confirmed boost was ssj which was 50x. Anything else is stronger, but no one can be sure how much stronger.
When I want to compare higher levels of power I 'reuse' the SSJ increase for them, just to get a minimum number to work with. IE, if base is 1 and SSJ 50 then SSJ2 would be 100 and SSJ3 150. SSJ2 = 2x SSJ1 and SSJ3 = 3x SSJ1. Just the numbers I use for stuff.

>there was an episode of gt where base Goku killed cell and Frieza at the same time
There were also two episodes in GT where base Goku did better than SSJ4 Goku. GT has no logic and doesn't even stay consistant with itself, let alone DB/Z.

>Why the hell people think that SSJ is 50x stronger than base form?
Two reasons.

First: It's what's given in the Daizenshuu. That could be argued with but there's also...

Second: It's what makes sense. Base Goku and Freeza were almost even, with a slight advantage to Freeza. Goku uses up a KKx20 + Kamehameha combo and only singes 50% Freeza's hand. Thus Freeza must be at least twice the power of KKx20 Goku. So 50x is just a logical number that fits with how the fight went.

>I'd say PL multiplier of base form and SSJ is 2x - 2.5x.
SSJ cannot be weaker than 20x or Goku would never use it as Kaioken could produce more power.

>P.S freesa wasnt 100,000,000 he was only like
Freeza can't be any less than 95,000,000 (at full power) based on the facts of the manga.

>...wich is bullshit. if 6 days of training can make you that much more powerfull
Do you mean Goku? Because Goku was in a situation that was never repeated again, during the entire series, ever.

Or do you mean Piccolo's 3,000ish to, if he's lucky, 10,000ish boost with King Kai? It stands to reason that a person would get the most out of gravity training at the start and that it would get progressively more useless. Thus, your power increases much faster at the start of such training than it would near the end. So there's no foul here.

>krillin in his first budokai was soo fast that noone could even see him (Normal people) . now, after several years of training, even godlike people like piccolo gohan or goku need hours to get from one point to another. at that time they should be so fast, that flying over the eart would take seconds.
Ever wave a pencil in front of your face? Can't see it too well, can you? And it's barely moving at any kind of real speed.

>they were no match for anyone.
Freeza would disagree with you.

>c17,c18, c16, cell, dabura, buu,
SSJ Trunks killed 17 and 18 without any issue. SSJ Goku was pretty close to Cell's power, and by the Buu Saga he could have taken him. Gohan only used SSJ against Dabura and didn't fare all that badly, either. It's not that SSJ is pathetic, it's that the enemies following Freeza were all just real fucking strong.

>ssj were supposed to be the stongest in the universe,but they didnt really do anything to proove this right.
They killed Freeza and surpassed the power of the Supreme Kai. I'd say that's proof enough.

>than in 6 days, he gets several times stronger than vegeta (and you say that he cant do that kind of training again,
Goku got multiple Zenkai's during his trip to Namek. He started off with a full bag of Senzu and landed on Namek with just three.

>hes at 180.000 max.
90,000.

>he has a pl over onemillion
Zenkai.

>and with one finger he dodges every attack of trunks (who is at least as strong as gokus was on namek.
Nothing indicates Trunks is as strong as Goku on Namek. Freeza never powered-up so he got sliced and diced at his resting power. No one comments that Goku's power has increased greatly since Namek, either. Personally, I think Trunks was slightly weaker than Goku on Namek.

But, that aside, only a small difference in power (percent wise) is required for a result like what we saw with Trunks and Goku. If Trunks were at, say, 80,000,000, then Goku would only need to be at 105 million to do exactly what he did. And 100 million is what I've got Goku at on Namek so it's not like his power made any ZOMGWTFHUGE increase.

>and then he gets ill. than he trains another year in the room of spirit and time. he masters full power super sayan. then he trains for 7 years in the afterlife. then after buu is defeated he still trains for ten years.
ARE YOU SERIOUS TO SAY THAT HES NORMAL STATE CANT KEEP UP WITH EVEN A SSJ1? WICH IS MAX. A 50* POWERUP?
Yes, yes I am. 2 x 50 = 100 million. Base Goku at the end of Z at the final tournament? Probably 22 to 25 million. No where near any SSJ seen in the series.

Xyex@


>Goku wasn't near death on Earth, but got a Zenkai. Vegeta wasn't near death against the Ginyu Force but got a Zenkai. Goku wasn't near death after the Ginyu Force and got a Zenkai. "Near death" is a misleading term. Saiya-jins get stronger just from healing from an injury. Any injury. If the Zenkai persisted post SSJ Vegeta would have rushed off to fight 18 again. And if he still lost he'd have healed up and then rushed off to do it again until he won. We wouldn't have stood around mopping and then agreed with Goku that they had to train more. This is the same guy that had Krillin blast a hole through his chest so he could get strong enough to fight Freeza, after all.

So, having almost every of his bones bronken and being not able to move is not near death?
Having a hole throught his body isn't being near death?

They don't get stronger by healing a simple injury.

>Oh, sure. Give Goku a couple thousand years of training in Otherworld and he could probably take Freeza in his base. But no living Saiya-jin's going to reach that level of power.
I mean, fuck, that was the entire point of the Namek/Freeza Sagas and the creation of SSJ for crying out loud.

Well, Vegeta being confident that could win the world tournement without transforming, knowing that 18 was going to participate, shows the oposite.


>When I want to compare higher levels of power I 'reuse' the SSJ increase for them, just to get a minimum number to work with. IE, if base is 1 and SSJ 50 then SSJ2 would be 100 and SSJ3 150. SSJ2 = 2x SSJ1 and SSJ3 = 3x SSJ1. Just the numbers I use for stuff.

Your ssj multipliers make no sence and are impossible. If you use those multipliers, Goku is going to be stronger than Freeza on his base form for sure.

>There were also two episodes in GT where base Goku did better than SSJ4 Goku. GT has no logic and doesn't even stay consistant with itself, let alone DB/Z.

On the new TV special, Goten and Trunks are stronger than Avo and Cado, who were stronger than Freeza, on their base form. Goku owns in the other world Freeza like was nothing without transforming. Well, it's not only GT what show us that.

>Two reasons.
First: It's what's given in the Daizenshuu. That could be argued with but there's also...
Second: It's what makes sense. Base Goku and Freeza were almost even, with a slight advantage to Freeza. Goku uses up a KKx20 + Kamehameha combo and only singes 50% Freeza's hand. Thus Freeza must be at least twice the power of KKx20 Goku. So 50x is just a logical number that fits with how the fight went.

Advantage for Freeza? How, you're way off.


>Do you mean Goku? Because Goku was in a situation that was never repeated again, during the entire series, ever.

You're right, he only trained 3 years before the Androids first appearance, 1 year inside the Hyperbolic Time Chamber with Gohan, 7 years on the other world, and alot more :/

>Or do you mean Piccolo's 3,000ish to, if he's lucky, 10,000ish boost with King Kai? It stands to reason that a person would get the most out of gravity training at the start and that it would get progressively more useless. Thus, your power increases much faster at the start of such training than it would near the end. So there's no foul here.

That is exactly why Nail said that he was really strong, because he had the same power of other Nameks (I'm not saying that he was stronger than Nail).

>they were no match for anyone.
Freeza would disagree with you.

TOEI and Akira Toroyama disagree with you :/

>SSJ Goku was pretty close to Cell's power

Ever watched the full battle? Cell was holding back ALOT of his power just to fight evenly with Goku.

>and by the Buu Saga he could have taken him. Gohan only used SSJ against Dabura and didn't fare all that badly, either.

Read the manga. Dabura was told to be stronger than Cell, and was only playing around with Gohan.

>It's not that SSJ is pathetic, it's that the enemies following Freeza were all just real fucking strong.

Not by your logic :/

>They killed Freeza and surpassed the power of the Supreme Kai. I'd say that's proof enough.

Plus, Supreme Kai said that could easily defeat Freeza, and was really impressed with th saiyans base form power.

>Goku got multiple Zenkai's during his trip to Namek. He started off with a full bag of Senzu and landed on Namek with just three.

Senzus don't make you have a Zenkai. You clearly don't undestand what a Zenkai is.

>Nothing indicates Trunks is as strong as Goku on Namek. Freeza never powered-up so he got sliced and diced at his resting power. No one comments that Goku's power has increased greatly since Namek, either. Personally, I think Trunks was slightly weaker than Goku on Namek.

Everything indicates that he was equal/stronger than Goku in Namek. Gohan says that Trunks KI is equal to Goku's KI in Namek (has super saiyans), and he said that could defeat Freeza and Cold.

>But, that aside, only a small difference in power (percent wise) is required for a result like what we saw with Trunks and Goku. If Trunks were at, say, 80,000,000, then Goku would only need to be at 105 million to do exactly what he did. And 100 million is what I've got Goku at on Namek so it's not like his power made any ZOMGWTFHUGE increase.

He stoped Trunks attacks with one finger, proof enough for you?


>Yes, yes I am. 2 x 50 = 100 million. Base Goku at the end of Z at the final tournament? Probably 22 to 25 million. No where near any SSJ seen in the series.

Really, no comments for this one. That is ignoring the Daizenshuu statement (it's something like "characters become so strong that is impossible to mesure their power"). You say that 21 years is not enough to become 50x stronger, I say that you're logic makes no sence.

Salagir: Trunks had two edges that Goku did not have. He had his sword (slicing damage > blunt damage, as has been shown in the series before) and Cyborg Freeza never powered up (so he was at maybe 50 million, tops).

As for Goku's power, nothing indicates he made any power improvements. We know he learned to teleport and transform at will, but we also know the Yardrat's a weaklings so it was all solo training which always yeilds really tiny gains.

>So, having almost every of his bones bronken and being not able to move is not near death?
No, it's not. Did it look to you like they were in any rush to get Goku to the hospital after Vegeta crushed him? Nope. He was in no danger of dying.

>Having a hole throught his body isn't being near death?
Who had a whole through their body? Vegeta against Freeza? I never said that wasn't a near death instance. But Vegeta after the Ginyu fight? He was still STANDING before he got a senzu and then got the SECOND LARGEST ZENKAI in the enitre series, surpassed only by Goku's prior to Freeza.

>Well, Vegeta being confident that could win the world tournement without transforming, knowing that 18 was going to participate, shows the oposite.
No, it doesn't. 18 was confident she could win the tournament too, so by your logic she is more powerful than SSJ2 Gohan.

>Your ssj multipliers make no sence and are impossible. If you use those multipliers, Goku is going to be stronger than Freeza on his base form for sure.
Um, no, he's not. 100% Freeza = 95 milllion. Base Goku at the end of Z = 25 million. NOWHERE near Freeza's power.

>On the new TV special, Goten and Trunks are stronger than Avo and Cado, who were stronger than Freeza, on their base form. Goku owns in the other world Freeza like was nothing without transforming. Well, it's not only GT what show us that.
Nope. First of all, Avo and Cado =/= 100% Freeza. TARBLE compared them to Freeza and he only knows about First form Freeza. Thus, Avo and Cado = First Form Freeza who the kids are clearly stronger than.

The Otherworld stuff is filler, so it doesn't matter. But even if it does, Freeza's at his resting power in that scene (2.21 million) so, uh, duh, of course Goku would kick his ass.

>That is exactly why Nail said that he was really strong, because he had the same power of other Nameks
The other Namek's were 3,000. Piccolo was 10k+, which is why Nail called him strong.

>Ever watched the full battle? Cell was holding back ALOT of his power just to fight evenly with Goku.
He was holding back a fair amount, but not massive amounts, unless you count his buff state too, but that's so slow it's not important to factor in.

>Read the manga. Dabura was told to be stronger than Cell, and was only playing around with Gohan.
I suggest you re-read that part. Dabura was said to be almost as strong as Cell. And nothing says he was playing around.

>Not by your logic :/
Um, yes, by my logic. What? 1,000,000,000 isn't "Real fucking strong" comapred to 95,000,000? Because 1 billion is what Super Perfect Cell was at, to 100% Freeza's 95 million. And Kid Buu? He's at 4.8 billion. That's a hell of a lot stronger than Freeza.

>Plus, Supreme Kai said that could easily defeat Freeza, and was really impressed with th saiyans base form power.
No, the Supreme Kai was impressed with the Saiya-jins SSJ powers.

>Senzus don't make you have a Zenkai. You clearly don't undestand what a Zenkai is.
Um, I understand what a Zenkai is perfectly, thank-you. YOU apparently don't understand what a senzu is, though. Senzu's = healing item = something you take when badly injured = Goku was doing major damage to his body while training = Goku was getting Zenkai's on his trip to Namek. This isn't rocket surgery.

>Everything indicates that he was equal/stronger than Goku in Namek. Gohan says that Trunks KI is equal to Goku's KI in Namek (has super saiyans), and he said that could defeat Freeza and Cold.
Gohan says it's 'similar' which isn't just the level but the type of energy (SSJ energy). And 'similar' doesn't mean as strong as, it just means close.

>He stoped Trunks attacks with one finger, proof enough for you?
Trunks held back. This was stated by Goku after Goku blocked all of Trunks' swings.

>Really, no comments for this one. That is ignoring the Daizenshuu statement (it's something like "characters become so strong that is impossible to mesure their power").
No it's not. Show me a scouter that can read powers over 150 million. THAT is what the Daizenshuu was talking about. Post Freeza all powers are too high to be read and, thus, can not be shown.

> You say that 21 years is not enough to become 50x stronger, I say that you're logic makes no sence.
Yes, I am saying that 21 years is not enough time for someone to go from 2 million to 50 million. It is stated in Dragonball that it becomes harder to gain power as you get stronger. So she stronger you are the longer it takes to reach the next level.

If you could just wave your hand and be 50x stronger like that, don't you think Freeza would have died looong before Goku came along?

Sorry, but what do I have to do to my comment don't be denied? Because I already tried to reply Xyex but my comment was denied.

good one trunks!

>Salagir
The message was saying that it was spam.
I already sent you a E-Mail with my comment.

Look at freeza and Cold's face, they were so stunned they were killed by a saiyan. gasp hahaha

lol at piccolo when vegeta said about nail

you should add in friezas son and vegetas bro in this

Zis is a unfair matchup. I know Trunks was a lot stronger zan Cooler, but PHAIL for making him look too weak. At least use Metal Cooler!

I loved this page! Freeza and King Cold´s expressions are great, to not mention Piccolo´s glare. XD

u said COOLA instead of COOLER...is it a mistake? or is it the fact that FRIEZZA AND COOLER's father put them other names?

=))=))=))=))LOOl Piccolo's look is epic....bwahahahaha=))=))=))

so wait since its a universe where the cold family has all survived does that mean that this is the first time that they are seeing a super saiyan?

yay go trunks

base saiyans will never equal frieza. as stated before goku received massive zenkais during his trip to namek. Vegeta is not stronger than 18 or piccolo in his base during the world tournament. It would be impossible.

Freeza and Coola are the real names.

Base saiyans at least equal Freeza during the Buu arc

thats a wake up call for freiza and king cold

Lol same look frieza had on his face when he say trunks go SSj.

trunks looks awesome. pity his special sucked. and pity he faces U18 vegeta in the next round. though i hope for a less one sided fight than this one with cooler.

WARNING!!
This page is NOT for kids!

This page marks the official decline of the comment section. Instead of talking about the comic/manga we get pointless wall o' text about power levels theory ,who is stronger than who, and pointless irrelevant/unprovable crap about how long it would take to become 50x stronger.

Never tought of that

@Marco

Freeza in the guide is 120 million battle power.

ok from what i remembered in power levels
frieza during the start of his fight with goku was around 4 million because he was holding back
goku had just had a zenkai so his power level was around only 300,000 but the zenkai probably focuses more on increasing speed and brute strength than ki
that along with goku's infinately higher SKILL level and ki manipulation is probably why he was holding out for so long